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Post by throwthedeepball on Oct 18, 2017 9:28:25 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class.
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 18, 2017 9:31:27 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class. PLAYOFFS... PLAYOFFS??? PLAYOFFS?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 9:40:47 GMT -6
Dismiss the cancers from practice. Work as much as you can with the young cats that work and pay attention to get them better for the next season. If there is a ton of backlash, let the cancers play, get whipped, and then be done with them.
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Post by ahall005 on Oct 18, 2017 9:42:12 GMT -6
We had a similar situation basically for the last three years. I tried to focus on the kids that cared and put all my effort into that. As a team I know when we get to that stage we work the 2s in a lot more often in practice to get them some reps for next year... Luckily for us this we are currently 4-4 with a decent chance of making the playoffs and having a winning season for the first time in 7 years. I always tell myself that the bad years will make the good years even better.
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Post by 53 on Oct 18, 2017 10:48:01 GMT -6
Don't sound like there's much there with the seniors either, so might as well lose with kids that want to be there.
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Post by **** on Oct 18, 2017 11:02:02 GMT -6
Start looking for a new job.
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Post by WTR on Oct 18, 2017 11:11:31 GMT -6
Have been in the situation in the past and it sucks. Just grind it out coach. Keep working hard and finish the season as strong as you can as a coach. The kids that are trying deserve that from you.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Oct 18, 2017 11:29:03 GMT -6
It's troubling that you're receiving pushback from the parents. If it were me, I'd roll with the players that want to be there, even if we lost 100-0. Even if you make playoffs you won't make any real noise, those kids have quit and don't want to make playoffs. Use the cancers only as a last resort and when it meets the team's goals. If/when cancers change attitude I'd begin working them back in - there has to be some kind of incentive to change their behavior. When the season is over start looking for a new gig.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 18, 2017 11:45:47 GMT -6
First, if you don’t want to be there it’s understandable that they don’t want to be there either.
I wouldn’t push the hope of the playoffs. I would focus on daily inprovement and personal pride.
I have been through seasons where it felt the end would never come. For me I try to stick with the plan and process. I am going to coach them every play to get better. When guys stop being coachable, I try to talk to them and see what the deal is. If that doesn’t work I don’t let them get in drills during indy and put them on the scout team during team periods until they decide to be coachable and give effort.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 18, 2017 12:18:04 GMT -6
I think every coach has Cancers on their team, I don't think I have ever been on a team where it is completely harmonious and every kid just did the right things and did everything correctly, but if you asked those kids how they thought they were doing they would all say they work hard and are great teammates. Kids are stupid and they don't see how their behavior effects others.
As a coach you have to be a mirror into what behavior they are demonstrating, and that isn't an easy job. When they step out of line or don't practice hard, get on them, tell them how they are practicing and how they are treating the coaches and the other players. Sometimes kids are so full of themselves that they don't see how big of Dicks they really are. So it is a question of do you think they can ever change their behavior and attitudes? I think all kids can make those changes and it's just a matter of them recieving consistent feedback to how they act and behave and whether or not they are going to choose to make changes.
What I would do, and have done with those types of kids is I would sit down with them or pull them aside with all of the Coaches there and go over all of the expected behavior they need to have for practice. Ask them how they think they are doing and that is a good way to see just how jaded they really are. I have yet to get a kid that answers that question with allot of introspection.
Set up very specific rules with simple and consistent consequences. For example if they loaf, then they run. If they talk back then they run. If they goof off then they run. And while they are running you practice their replacements, so if they want to spend an entire practice taking laps then that is their deal.
2 things will happen they just won't show up to practice, which might be a great thing for you guys or they will modify their behavior. You will be surprise by just how quick kids will start acting right if you guys are consistent with that stuff, I have had practices where you don't think you are getting through to a kid, but you stay the course make him run or whatever every time he steps out of line and by next practice he is right as rain.
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Post by 54695469 on Oct 18, 2017 13:07:59 GMT -6
1) should have spent last off-season season changing the culture in your program. 2) read Randy Jackson's book on changing the culture in your program. 3) if the task is too daunting, leave and find a new school like Randy Jackson does. (And beer prepared to do this every two our three years). 4) spend every waking moment between now and next season changing your program culture, which includes setting up teams, giving out prizes, learning key buzzwords, using Twitter non-stop, self-promotion, etc. 5) jump on board the next fad which is due to be the topic of many clinic speeches.
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Post by throwthedeepball on Oct 18, 2017 14:28:00 GMT -6
1) should have spent last off-season season changing the culture in your program. 2) read Randy Jackson's book on changing the culture in your program. 3) if the task is too daunting, leave and find a new school like Randy Jackson does. (And beer prepared to do this every two our three years). 4) spend every waking moment between now and next season changing your program culture, which includes setting up teams, giving out prizes, learning key buzzwords, using Twitter non-stop, self-promotion, etc. 5) jump on board the next fad which is due to be the topic of many clinic speeches. 1) We are an entirely new staff that was not hired until May so we did not have an offseason 2) I have read the book and done that stuff before (and yes it needs to be done) 3) I am thinking very hard about doing this. The problem isn't so much the kids (I know kids will do what you demand of them) it is the fact that parents enable their behavior. You can't be successful if the community doesn't support you. 4) We are working on it, and have had a twitter since we got here. 5) Not really sure what you mean by this one I have been at all kinds of schools with all kinds of teams, ones who hope to win a single game, state powers, mediocre programs, and consistent playoff teams. But I have never felt like this, especially this early in the year. It is like everyone is against the coaches, and like I said, the kids have quit. Nonetheless I will keep doing what I know needs to be done to try and turn it around. I am just glad that the resume is up to date since we did just get here this year.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 18, 2017 15:08:10 GMT -6
It is IMPERATIVE players make the "investment" in the out-of-season, so they will want to PROTECT that investment IN-SEASON (in addition to getting BIGGER/FASTER/STRONGER)!!!
MENTAL ATTITUDE: Many football games are won by the mental attitude of the players. The player who knows he is stronger than,his opponents has a psychological advantage over him. If a player knows he can hit harder and quicker than his opponent, he will have a feeling of confidence when he goes on the field/. KNOWING THAT HE IS STRONG GIVES MANY A FOOTBALL PLAYER THE MENTAL EDGE NECESSARY FOR MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE. Strength helps the football player to become mentally ready for a game!
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Post by blb on Oct 18, 2017 15:56:42 GMT -6
Apparently some of you did not catch in OP that they have "absolutely nothing behind them."
If you're in a HS situation where kids know they're going to play because there is no competition (because of numbers especially) - telling him about firing the "cancers" and what to do in Off-Season is of little use.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 18, 2017 16:25:56 GMT -6
There is no excuse in the world NOT to have an out-of-season program IF YOU STAY THERE!
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Post by blb on Oct 18, 2017 16:40:53 GMT -6
There is no excuse in the world NOT to have an out-of-season program IF YOU STAY THERE!
You can have an "out-of-season program" but if you're at a small school - unlike you - kids may be be playing other sports and not available.
And again - unfortunately in some situations kids will not participate fully in an "out-of-season program" because they know they'll play anyway because there is nobody else (numbers).
What would YOU do then?
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 18, 2017 17:13:56 GMT -6
There is no excuse in the world NOT to have an out-of-season program IF YOU STAY THERE!
You can have an "out-of-season program" but if you're at a small school - unlike you - kids may be be playing other sports and not available.
And again - unfortunately in some situations kids will not participate fully in an "out-of-season program" because they know they'll play anyway because there is nobody else (numbers).
What would YOU do then?
I have coached in ALL of the classifications in Va. (from very small to very large). There are ALWAYS SOME who are available (& WANT you to help them), & you owe it to them to give them your best (before school, during school, after school, in the evenings, on the weekend, ETC.)! Please don't ask anymore nonsensical questions, BLB!
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Post by Defcord on Oct 18, 2017 17:26:35 GMT -6
Culture is just the latest buzz word...it used to be buy-in or mission...next it will be climate or something else trendy..
At the end of the day it’s all about caring about and coaching your guys. Every play, every day.
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Post by blb on Oct 18, 2017 17:29:10 GMT -6
I have coached in ALL of the classifications in Va. (from very small to very large). There are ALWAYS SOME who are available (& WANT you to help them), & you owe it to them to give them your best (before school, during school, after school, in the evenings, on the weekend, ETC.)! Please don't ask anymore nonsensical questions, BLB!
Sorry, but - one more "nonsensical question":
When was the last time you coached at a "very small" school who had, let's say 20-25 Varsity players and a like number of JVs (Sophomores and Freshmen)?
Please don't give any more theoretical replies not rooted in reality for coaches like OP.
You can't re-post 20-year old articles by NFL coaches to help on this one.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 18, 2017 17:47:34 GMT -6
I have coached in ALL of the classifications in Va. (from very small to very large). There are ALWAYS SOME who are available (& WANT you to help them), & you owe it to them to give them your best (before school, during school, after school, in the evenings, on the weekend, ETC.)! Please don't ask anymore nonsensical questions, BLB!
Sorry, but - one more "nonsensical question":
When was the last time you coached at a "very small" school who had, let's say 20-25 Varsity players and a like number of JVs (Sophomores and Freshmen)?
Please don't give any more theoretical replies not rooted in reality for coaches like OP.
You can't re-post 20-year old articles by NFL coaches to help on this one.
I don't owe YOU answers to ANY of your questions (mind your own business). You cannot & have not suggested anything that would help the OP (with your "quitter" attitude). I would like to play you for a LIVING!
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Post by freezeoption on Oct 18, 2017 17:49:03 GMT -6
There cancers because their parents let them be that way in life. Keep going and make the best of it. I know it is hard when you don't have numbers. Keep the cancers busy during practice so they have less time to be a pia. You can cut out breaks or whatever is there chance to have a platform.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 18, 2017 17:52:48 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class. Hang in there. Get rid of the cancers & do one of these things: 1. Find a better position 2. Make the best of what you have coming back in the out-of-season. REMEMBER: It does you no good to complain about your kids, because if you CHOOSE to come back, they are all you HAVE!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 18:10:52 GMT -6
Dude that sucks, i have a friend who's going through the same BS, he asks me for advice almost daily, I feel for you.
There's really only 2 things you can really do , you can ride it out and hope the cancers graduate, hoping they didnt "infect" other kids with the same BS attitude for next year , for your sake I hope thats true, or if its unbearable you can pack it in and perhaps look elsewhere .
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 19, 2017 6:51:39 GMT -6
There is no excuse in the world NOT to have an out-of-season program IF YOU STAY THERE!
You can have an "out-of-season program" but if you're at a small school - unlike you - kids may be be playing other sports and not available.
And again - unfortunately in some situations kids will not participate fully in an "out-of-season program" because they know they'll play anyway because there is nobody else (numbers).
What would YOU do then?
FIND A NEW JOB..... Life's to short to be miserable. I know how to win, I'm going to show you how to win, we are going to implement the things necessary to win. If that results in constant push back then it's time for me to go somewhere they want to win.
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Post by **** on Oct 19, 2017 7:34:34 GMT -6
Apparently some of you did not catch in OP that they have "absolutely nothing behind them." If you're in a HS situation where kids know they're going to play because there is no competition (because of numbers especially) - telling him about firing the "cancers" and what to do in Off-Season is of little use. I've been in this situation before. 16 players, 9-12. Seniors were cancers. Best 2 kids were a JR and FR. I left and got a new job. That is the only real world answer.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 19, 2017 7:41:40 GMT -6
I have coached in ALL of the classifications in Va. (from very small to very large). There are ALWAYS SOME who are available (& WANT you to help them), & you owe it to them to give them your best (before school, during school, after school, in the evenings, on the weekend, ETC.)! Please don't ask anymore nonsensical questions, BLB!
Sorry, but - one more "nonsensical question":
When was the last time you coached at a "very small" school who had, let's say 20-25 Varsity players and a like number of JVs (Sophomores and Freshmen)?
Please don't give any more theoretical replies not rooted in reality for coaches like OP.
You can't re-post 20-year old articles by NFL coaches to help on this one.
Forget 20-25 on varsity, what do you do when you have 27 9-12? Methinks ace back has never tried to make chicken salad out of chicken {censored} in his coaching career given his responses.
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Post by gators41 on Oct 19, 2017 8:09:27 GMT -6
1) should have spent last off-season season changing the culture in your program. 2) read Randy Jackson's book on changing the culture in your program. 3) if the task is too daunting, leave and find a new school like Randy Jackson does. (And beer prepared to do this every two our three years). 4) spend every waking moment between now and next season changing your program culture, which includes setting up teams, giving out prizes, learning key buzzwords, using Twitter non-stop, self-promotion, etc. 5) jump on board the next fad which is due to be the topic of many clinic speeches. You are not wrong with anything you are saying here. It just comes off so abrasive. He is not the head coach how can he change the culture. A good assistant can only do so much.
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center
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Post by center on Oct 19, 2017 9:17:45 GMT -6
Honestly this time of year a lot of teams have packed it in. In Illinois the regular season ends tomorrow and most of the teams know if they have a chance for playoffs or not. Half the teams in Illinois already know it is over.
A lot of these teams are fired up to play one last game of football but are done with all the other stuff. They don't want to practice anymore or watch film. Academic study hall has worn out its welcome etc. Even some of the playoff teams are sick of everything except games and team dinner.
Sometimes the season just needs to end, the seniors need to move on and you need to inventory the situation.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 19, 2017 9:28:33 GMT -6
1) should have spent last off-season season changing the culture in your program. 2) read Randy Jackson's book on changing the culture in your program. 3) if the task is too daunting, leave and find a new school like Randy Jackson does. (And beer prepared to do this every two our three years). 4) spend every waking moment between now and next season changing your program culture, which includes setting up teams, giving out prizes, learning key buzzwords, using Twitter non-stop, self-promotion, etc. 5) jump on board the next fad which is due to be the topic of many clinic speeches. 1) We are an entirely new staff that was not hired until May so we did not have an offseason 2) I have read the book and done that stuff before (and yes it needs to be done) 3) I am thinking very hard about doing this. The problem isn't so much the kids (I know kids will do what you demand of them) it is the fact that parents enable their behavior. You can't be successful if the community doesn't support you. 4) We are working on it, and have had a twitter since we got here. 5) Not really sure what you mean by this one I have been at all kinds of schools with all kinds of teams, ones who hope to win a single game, state powers, mediocre programs, and consistent playoff teams. But I have never felt like this, especially this early in the year. It is like everyone is against the coaches, and like I said, the kids have quit. Nonetheless I will keep doing what I know needs to be done to try and turn it around. I am just glad that the resume is up to date since we did just get here this year. Coach the dude was not being serious about that list, he was trying to make fun of coaches who think T-shirts, contests and reading some rando dudes book is going to change your situation. And in allot of ways he is right, that stuff is a bunch of crap. You just gotta keep on all those players and never give up your messages of change, hard work and giving 100% effort. Coach we have all been there, we have all had just a crap group of kids, who no matter what you do they push back. Let me give you a story. A couple of years ago I went to a small school as an OC and they had never won more than 3 games in a year, the former HC talked crap on us as a coaching staff before we got there and got several great players to transfer out. The kids that we had left were either "uncoachable" Seniors or untalented Freshman/Sophomores, we worked with the Seniors all year and I wish we could say they all changed within that football season, but many of them had bad attitudes throughout the year and it was a constant battle. However, the next year we had one of those cancerous Seniors comeback and apologies for his rotten attitude and he helped us coach the next year, and he was preaching to the younger kids all the stuff we preached to him. In fact we have had every Senior from that team comeback and help out in some way and they shared a sense of pride for being the ones who started changing things at that school. Football isn't just about the here and now, it is also about changing peoples lives and improving how they look at life and function in the world. Most coaches just talk a big game about Football being a character building opportunity, but they aren't willing to work with kids who need to make the most changes. Their answer will always be get rid of the kid. But what purpose does that serve? Who does that help? Certainly not the kid who needs football and structure and discipline the most.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 19, 2017 9:37:18 GMT -6
Sorry, but - one more "nonsensical question":
When was the last time you coached at a "very small" school who had, let's say 20-25 Varsity players and a like number of JVs (Sophomores and Freshmen)?
Please don't give any more theoretical replies not rooted in reality for coaches like OP.
You can't re-post 20-year old articles by NFL coaches to help on this one.
Forget 20-25 on varsity, what do you do when you have 27 9-12? Methinks ace back has never tried to make chicken salad out of chicken {censored} in his coaching career given his responses. Amen brother, couldn't have said it better myself. The problem with only reading Coaching books is the coaches writing them only put their best foot forward and usually they don't mention all the crap they went through or how they got to where they are. I remember reading a coaching book from one of the College Coaching legions, I won't name the Coach, but thought man this is awesome I want to be just like this guy and I had a chance to talk to some of the staff that was under this coach for all those years and I am mentioning stories and things from the book. They all looked at each other and start laughing and one of the guys says to me, "Well I think that's how he wished it had all gone down. We tend to remember things the way we want them to be and not how they really were."
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