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Post by bluetiger on Sept 21, 2017 9:09:46 GMT -6
This is my 4th year leading a program. We have been successfull because I have had some grea athletes. I'm really trying to build my numbers because we should have more out for the team. I have talked to successful coaches, and they tell me they don't care about lower level wins, they want kids to play. So I told my lower level coaches to play all kids that come out for the team. My 8th grade has some really good players, but because we play all kids they are not as successful in the winning column. Now I have parents complaining that they should be winning, and that they are not going to let their kid play next year if this is the way we are going to run programs below varsity. I just wanted some of your thoughts on this and how I might approach the parents who see their son as a star and the team as a failure. Is playing everyone the right thing to do? Does it help build numbers, or does winning 7th and 8th grade games?
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Post by PSS on Sept 21, 2017 9:15:27 GMT -6
You have the right idea. Is there any way to split your lower levels into two teams such as a 7th A and 7th B, 8th A and 8th B? I understand that not everyone has the numbers but if you have 40 kids on one team it would be beneficial to have a B team with 15-16 players.
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Post by 54695469 on Sept 21, 2017 9:29:11 GMT -6
I, me and my....
Might try we, ours and us?
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Post by silkyice on Sept 21, 2017 9:34:31 GMT -6
This is my 4th year leading a program. We have been successfull because I have had some grea athletes. I'm really trying to build my numbers because we should have more out for the team. I have talked to successful coaches, and they tell me they don't care about lower level wins, they want kids to play. So I told my lower level coaches to play all kids that come out for the team. My 8th grade has some really good players, but because we play all kids they are not as successful in the winning column. Now I have parents complaining that they should be winning, and that they are not going to let their kid play next year if this is the way we are going to run programs below varsity. I just wanted some of your thoughts on this and how I might approach the parents who see their son as a star and the team as a failure. Is playing everyone the right thing to do? Does it help build numbers, or does winning 7th and 8th grade games? Playing everyone doesn't mean everyone plays the same amount. I get what you are doing, but those kids want to win also and winning can become a habit and contagious and so can losing. Best of all worlds, you starters are so good that they win big so everyone plays. Of course that doesn't always happen. Your second tier guys play special teams and rotate in when they can contribute. If there is not much difference between certain players, play more guys. Your third tier guys play when the game is decided - one way or the other. Use those as guidelines, not as rules. |
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Post by wingtol on Sept 21, 2017 9:40:44 GMT -6
We tell our lower levels everyone needs to play and play them early in the games! Throw them in for a few plays here and there early in the game. Then you don't get jammed up trying to get kids plays when its crunch time or a tight game.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 21, 2017 9:45:16 GMT -6
Every successful program that I have coached in has found a way to play all of the kids, 7th grade through to JV. The worst programs I have worked in don't work those kids in and focus solely on winning lower level games. It's awful hard to ask a kid to bust his hump at practice every day, lift and/or play another sport in the off-season and particpate in camps in the summer if they're not getting on the field when they're younger. Plus, that younger player that looks slow and athletic may turn into a stud by the time their a junior or senior. We've had juniors that don't look like they should be on the field but they play JV games, hit the weights hard during the off-season and ended up starting for us as seniors.
There are easy ways to do it and stay competitive:
1. As has been pointed out, establish an A team and B team and set up a schedule accordingly.
2. Establish two evenly matched teams and work that into a schedule.
3. If you're playing in a conference where teams are being "competitive" at the lower you can still stay competitive with some ingenuity:
-Set up a starting unit that's always in when you're in the red zone on offense or defense. The same goes for short yardage situations. Rotate the rest of your kids in between the 20's.
-Find ways to hide your weaker players/lessen the impact of their lack of athleticism when they're in. For example, when we ran Wing-T, we would avoid running Bucksweep when we had weaker WB's and/or TEs in. We had plenty of other schemes to fall back on for a few plays.
-Set up two evenely matched teams and have them swap quarters on offense and defense. Have your best players in on important downs and short yardage situations.
Fair warning, there's nothing worse than "playing your studs" all game long at the lower levels and still having them get their asses kicked. I coached in a program with 50 freshman out for ball and the other coaches were hell-bent on winning games. We played about 20 kids consistently, had 30 standing around and went 2-8. Needless to say, the atmospher was awful on the team.
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Post by rosey65 on Sept 21, 2017 10:05:06 GMT -6
I'm with the rest of the thread, play them all early and often at the lower levels! Besides what has already been said, it might help the kids getting the PT and protect the W by helping the kids who are playing...
i.e.
--put a scrub a C with the starting safety over the top
--blitz scrub LBs
--Run RBs behind the starting OL
--run toss/sweep with scrub Gs in the game
--run away from scrub Ts
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Post by dubber on Sept 21, 2017 10:23:25 GMT -6
Maybe come up with a better plan for playing kids.
If I have a WR with no business being on the field. The line up outside the numbers (close enough for me to slap hands from the sidelines), and we run away from them.
Stuff like that.
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Post by chidesta on Sept 21, 2017 10:55:40 GMT -6
Parents are going to complain no matter what, and that is the reality, so you can't base your decisions upon parents complaining. I have had more parents get pissed after a great win than a lose, so you can be ultra competitive with your lower level programs and people will still complain because the third string QB didn't see any playing time. So the trick is to base your lower level program on a consistent developmental philosophy, meaning you are trying to develop everybody because every kid deserves a chance to play and they all develop at different rates and different times and you will find a kid who wasn't that good when he was in 7th or 8th grade suddenly hit some sort of growth spurt and becomes a player for you in High school, we have all seen it happen.
For me the rule is all kids play at the lower levels cause they are all paying their fees and they deserve to get out on the field, winning is secondary at the lower levels. and this idea about building winning habits when they are young is a crap idea, you can take kids that haven't consistently won in the lower levels and they do great in High school and you see the opposite happen all of the time. Kids skate through youth football winning little league championships and they can't duplicate that in High school. I have coached kids who have come from winning little league teams and they develop some really bad habits from youth coaches that you have to break them of and in reality the more success they have had at those lower levels the more stubborn they are that what they did when they were in 7th grade is somehow going to work in High School, so it's actually harder to coach those kids.
The lower levels are there to develop players, but more than anything you want every kid to have a good experience and continue with football, so have as many A, B and C teams as you can, and I have a rule no more than 25 on a team. If you have 45 or so kids, split them into two teams and get them all playing football.
Now this last part may sound bad, but it's for job security purposes if your youth teams are all killing it and you go through a down year on the high school level then those questions and comments come up within the community, people will start questioning why kids win, win and win and then get to the high school level and they aren't as successful. I've seen winning high school programs that play their lower level programs in tougher leagues and they don't win at the lower levels, but they compete for state championships, and I have seen programs that kill it in the lower levels, I mean their youth programs dominate and then when they get to high school nothing, I mean they don't win a game. So the question is which type of program do you want to have?
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 21, 2017 12:13:36 GMT -6
I've done this before at the lower levels, have Blue/Gold, Red/Black, etc... school color pair of teams.
Everybody learns offensive and defensive positions.
Take your good OL an pair them with the lesser skill players on one group. The better skill players with the lesser Linemen.
One quarter the Blue team starts on offense, the Gold team on defense (or which ever colors you use). At the end of the quarter, switch.
Then in the second half, you can always then go you White/Silver/etc.... team which is all the best players playing together.
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Post by seabass on Sept 21, 2017 12:37:57 GMT -6
IMO...MS, Freshman and JV ball should be about fundamental player development, which is hard to accomplish when you aren't competitive. The really good coaches, at the younger levels, figure out how to develop ALL their players, not just the good player's AND while remaining competitive. I'm not saying they win them all but they hang and bang with as many teams as is feasible and win their share.
How many people would go to work for 3 months without a paycheck? Game days are pay days for players. Not everybody gets paid the same but nobody works for free...that's not real life. If a kid shows up and puts in an honest weeks work, he's gotta get paid somehow. I'm sure some of you who have co-worker's that aren't very good. I'm guessing they all get paid.
It should be easy when you win going away but I still see coaches with too many idle players while being up 28. In tight games 2's and 3's don't play as much. That's real life too.
Parents are clueless and don't think about the big picture. They will be the same folks that complain about depth when their kid is on varsity.
I recently attended 2 practices at a very famous HS, they won a TON of games in a row, like the most ever in the history of sports. They had a very developmental approach to their freshman/JV teams
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 21, 2017 13:27:25 GMT -6
Some kids who can't start or play back-up...can get hurt against 1st string competition. Playing them too young or too early might be a bad idea, although I get what you're trying to do.
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Post by murdr on Sept 21, 2017 13:28:15 GMT -6
Play the best the most, but still play everyone. Don't neglect the bad kids, because they can make huge jumps from 7th to 10th grade. Puberty is great.
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 21, 2017 13:40:05 GMT -6
Do you guys do a B game or a "5th quarter" at all? Would other teams have the numbers to do this? That helps immensely with the MS teams in our area. We don't get HUGE numbers, but there are enough to where an extra running clock quarter is used for the bottoms of rosters.
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Post by olcoach53 on Sept 21, 2017 13:58:28 GMT -6
Find a way to get everybody on the field without having to have struggles. That is the beauty of special teams. You can promote that as a starting position and let guys move in and out of spots there. Let them know that being a backup doesn't mean you are the lesser player but that you just weren't as prepared as the other guy. I am in agreement that lower level wins, while good, are not the most important thing. We would much rather our guys get quality reps and improve on their offensive and defensive skills and jobs.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 21, 2017 14:08:57 GMT -6
Do you guys do a B game or a "5th quarter" at all? Would other teams have the numbers to do this? That helps immensely with the MS teams in our area. We don't get HUGE numbers, but there are enough to where an extra running clock quarter is used for the bottoms of rosters.
I coached one season for a froshmore team where we played a 5th and 6th quarter. Our HS HC opted for that over a B-team and it didn't go well.. The rest of the froshmore staff was kosher with playing fifteen kids during the first four quarters and then trying to get 35 other kids in during the 5th and 6th. It was a circus.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 22, 2017 22:29:27 GMT -6
I still believe our old 8 quarter rule was the best of both worlds. Each kid could dress for 8 quarters a week. The only restriction was those 8 couldn't be on the same day.
JV guys got to have their reps.... they get to develop versus similar level competition. They also go to dress on Friday night as possible injury back up, emergency sub, or in the case of a blow out they got a chance to save the varsity guys from having to play in a situation where the only thing that might happen would be a negative outcome.
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