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Post by fshamrock on Sept 14, 2017 13:21:40 GMT -6
getting it back to coaching a little....I worked at a place where we prayed after practice every day, a different coach would lead the prayer, but the only guys that the boss picked to do it were the overtly religious guys that were big into FCA and and the like, invariably, those guys were the ones that got promoted and given responsibilities on the staff. I'm kinda torn on it...on one hand, I have no problem with the boss running team the way he wants it run, and if in his mind devout christians help him accomplish his vision for the program, God speed but at the same time, it seemed like me and the other few guys on the staff that weren't overtly religious didn't get much of a fair shake. I ended up leaving when a Run game coordinator (whatever that is) spot opened up and instead of me stepping into it we brought in a guy that was less experienced than me.....and wouldn't ya know it, he was all about Jesus all the time, didn't see much of a future for me in that place. But I didn't raise a big stink about it and demand that everybody change to suit my preferences, I just drove on.
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Post by fantom on Sept 14, 2017 13:22:32 GMT -6
To be clear, I'm not against monuments in museums or historic sites or cemeteries. Very few people are. I don't see where statues in public parks, with no context aren't educational. You think that they do. Would you mind, then, if they erected a statue of Nat Turner next to that statue of Lee in Charlottesville? What I have said about opposing views. FYI, I don't care who puts up a statue of who. You can have whatever view like, but then, and this is no longer true, you should also suffer the consequences of those views. The KKK should have its ass kicked. But the question was whether a statue in a public park with no context is historical and if removing it is tantamount to burning books. I haven't her an argument yet that says that it is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 13:50:55 GMT -6
What I have said about opposing views. FYI, I don't care who puts up a statue of who. You can have whatever view like, but then, and this is no longer true, you should also suffer the consequences of those views. The KKK should have its ass kicked. But the question was whether a statue in a public park with no context is historical and if removing it is tantamount to burning books. I haven't her an argument yet that says that it is. I haven't heard argument that it isn't book burning. Historical context is not argument that applies to everybody. You say the statue is not historical, your context not mine. When you start removing things, even statues, that offend, You are now for all intent and purpose book burning. You are using one side of an argument to say it doesn't have any historical context. Well, the other side said their is.
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Post by fshamrock on Sept 14, 2017 13:53:40 GMT -6
What I have said about opposing views. FYI, I don't care who puts up a statue of who. You can have whatever view like, but then, and this is no longer true, you should also suffer the consequences of those views. The KKK should have its ass kicked. But the question was whether a statue in a public park with no context is historical and if removing it is tantamount to burning books. I haven't her an argument yet that says that it is. yeah, the analogy doesn't work. Typically, book burning involves the state attempting to deny its citizenry exposure to thought they find threatening the statues create a different set of circumstances, it's about the state deciding which aspects of its history it chooses to glorify in public space if you want to build a robert e lee in your front yard, nobody is going to stop you. the difference seems small but is huge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 13:56:50 GMT -6
But the question was whether a statue in a public park with no context is historical and if removing it is tantamount to burning books. I haven't her an argument yet that says that it is. yeah, the analogy doesn't work. Typically, book burning involves the state attempting to deny its citizenry exposure to thought they find threatening the statues create a different set of circumstances, it's about the state deciding which aspects of its history it chooses to glorify in public space if you want to build a robert e lee in your front yard, nobody is going to stop you. the difference seems small but is huge. When you remove statues you are denying citizen exposure, then at historical exposure. And yes they would stop you from doing it in your backyard. How do you get religion out of the public square? you got the religions that remove god, how the religion where their is no god? or people deem themselves to be god?
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Post by PSS on Sept 14, 2017 13:59:25 GMT -6
yeah, the analogy doesn't work. Typically, book burning involves the state attempting to deny its citizenry exposure to thought they find threatening the statues create a different set of circumstances, it's about the state deciding which aspects of its history it chooses to glorify in public space if you want to build a robert e lee in your front yard, nobody is going to stop you. the difference seems small but is huge. When you remove statues you are denying citizen exposure, then at historical exposure. And yes they would stop you from doing it in your backyard. How do you get religion out of the public square? you got the religions that remove god, how the religion where their is no god? or people deem themselves to be god? What if you put the statues in museums?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 14:01:34 GMT -6
When you remove statues you are denying citizen exposure, then at historical exposure. And yes they would stop you from doing it in your backyard. How do you get religion out of the public square? you got the religions that remove god, how the religion where their is no god? or people deem themselves to be god? What if you put the statues in museums? if its run by the state, they would want the museum shut down. So one side should be denied while the other gets everything they want, at anything they deem an offense? That is hatred.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Sept 14, 2017 20:31:20 GMT -6
So, are the statues on a team that didn't pray?
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Post by fshamrock on Sept 14, 2017 20:52:29 GMT -6
yeah, the analogy doesn't work. Typically, book burning involves the state attempting to deny its citizenry exposure to thought they find threatening the statues create a different set of circumstances, it's about the state deciding which aspects of its history it chooses to glorify in public space if you want to build a robert e lee in your front yard, nobody is going to stop you. the difference seems small but is huge. When you remove statues you are denying citizen exposure, then at historical exposure. And yes they would stop you from doing it in your backyard. How do you get religion out of the public square? you got the religions that remove god, how the religion where their is no god? or people deem themselves to be god? ....yeah
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Sept 14, 2017 21:05:41 GMT -6
We walk the field before each game and just have a little meeting to talk to the team. Usually, the conversation is about how it's perfect weather for football (regardless of the weather, haha) and how it should be a fine night if we take care of our business. Come out disciplined and fired up from the start, etc. etc. Then we pray at the end of this. It is in "public" (not in the locker room), but there is nobody there except for maybe somebody preparing the concession stand, etc.
We have prayed a few times with other teams when they asked if our guys wanted to. Usually, these are private schools, and they just ask our guys if they want to and we let our guys decide if they want to go out there or not.
I don't have a problem with it. I think people should find better things to be offended by than the sight of someone praying. Now, I would never force a kid to be involved, that goes without saying.
Really, it all breaks down to the type of community you live in as to whether any of this will be a big deal or not. I am in a community where most everyone is of the same religion, race, etc. And those that aren't so homogeneous are not offended by these sorts of things, in and of themselves.
I will say, though, that I'm not really a fan of it being done in front of entire crowds at midfield, etc. because I don't want a prayer I'm involved in to be a spectacle.
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Post by gccwolverine on Sept 15, 2017 0:34:49 GMT -6
As many of you know I have been coaching for a while. I have never been a part of a team that prays in public as this team. Friday night we prayed as a team on the field before the game and then also after the game. The week before we prayed after the game w our opponent. I don't know really where it is all coming from as we never did it previously. FYI..the HC doesn't lead it but we have a "character" coach who also does FCA. TO ME, I am of the opinion that you pray in private with your teammates/family, why does it need to be done in public? Why with the other team (which was highly organized) please note I am not against religion and actually worked at a Jesuit university in which prayer in our locker room was the norm Athiest here... I'm an assistant, Our team prays before every meal (private obviously) and then the kids pray before every game before the run out (public) and the team prays after every game on the field with all the patents and community around (public) obviously. I just take my cap off stand in the back and go with the flow in the before meals and post game prayers and I'm already on the sideline to avoid the pregame run out prayer.
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