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Post by hunhdisciple on Aug 24, 2017 9:33:50 GMT -6
I had this discussion with a friend recently, and I'm curious everyone views these kids.
How do you handle the kids who clearly need football more than you'll ever need them? I'm all for giving them more chances to redeem themselves if they're in that situation.
How do you guys deal with the kids who will most likely never be of value to your program, but need the structure and guidance and positives from football?
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Post by newt21 on Aug 24, 2017 9:51:41 GMT -6
Keep them as long as you can, but sometimes those kids (especially if they're younger) can learn more from getting the boot and told to come back next year when you give it to them; but you need to tell them to come back and try again next year. It's helped quite a few kids that were in similar situations from my experience of doing it this way.
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Post by grouchy71 on Aug 24, 2017 9:56:55 GMT -6
I've been welcoming of these types of kids for the 7 years I've been a HC now. Some times it ends up causing me more headaches than I would like, but I've also had some phenomenal experiences myself and for the other kids on the team by enlisting their help in mentoring some of these types of kids. We all talk about the good that football can do for kids, are we putting our money where our mouth is? I'm not sure it's a popular sentiment, but I absolutely have different expectations for different kids on my program, and there are some kids that get a lot more rope, it's just something I believe in. The better, more mature players understand that there are different expectations, and I'll even tell them as much. I haven't had much in the way of blowback from this, though I could see a scenario where a kid who does everything right but is still pushed to improve on small details is wondering why other kids aren't held to the same standards. I don't know, it's an interesting topic, and I'm in no way 100% set in how I'm doing things, but I'd like to continue to be able to coach all types of kids, and I'm not sure it's realistic to have 1 set of rules/standards and hold all kids to it these days.
Grouch
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Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 24, 2017 22:52:03 GMT -6
It's easy for me to feel as I do because I'm not a full time coach whose livelihood is on the line, I'm a guy that coaches out of love for the kids and the sport. But that said, I take all comers. Kids that need football are my soft spot and I'll do what I have to do to keep them in the program - if that means getting them to practice, taking care of fees or whatever. I've had a few tell me that I made a real difference in their life.
Long ago when I was coaching middle school we had a fat kid come out that got winded just getting in a 3 pt stance. Dad wasn't around, mom was a tattooed mess and great-grandpa (a 90+ year old lunger) was his only male influence. The middle school HC wanted to cut the kid because each kid had to get 10 plays a game and the HC thought he couldn't win with the kid. I was able to talk him into keeping him and he was terrible, damn near cost us the championship. He stayed in the program and went on to play high school ball. He was terrible all the way through and probably played about 20 snaps his whole high school career. It made a difference in his life, though, just being on the team and being one of the brotherhood. He tracked me down last year, he's in college and is going to make a life for himself, said he couldn't have done it without the lessons football taught him. That's my $.02.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 25, 2017 10:16:07 GMT -6
Sometimes we forget it's high school football, EVERY team has kids that are just down right horrible and will never do anything to contribute. I don't know how you could get mad at a kid like that or not want them around as long as they aren't distractions/discipline problems. We embrace these kids and make it a point to keep them at all costs. As boneyard said it's amazing how those kids benefit from being part of a team and having strong male role models to be around. Again it's high school football not college not pro's (sure some places the pressure is high) but helping kids and being a positive influence no matter their ability should be a top priority for all coaches.
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 26, 2017 4:42:38 GMT -6
Make it a point to keep that kid on the team as long as possible provided he is not stealing stuff or being a real liability. We have a young man right now from a group in town. He needs football. He comes every day works hard and is working on his social skills. You can tell being on this team means something to him. We are going to treat everyone fair but not equally.
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Post by dubber on Aug 26, 2017 20:58:17 GMT -6
As long as their involvement doesn't interfere with the guys killing themselves to make the program better, then keep them all.
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Post by bluboy on Aug 27, 2017 5:40:29 GMT -6
Make it a point to keep that kid on the team as long as possible provided he is not stealing stuff or being a real liability. We have a young man right now from a group in town. He needs football. He comes every day works hard and is working on his social skills. You can tell being on this team means something to him. We are going to treat everyone fair but not equally. Ditto!!!
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Post by nicku on Aug 27, 2017 12:51:18 GMT -6
Well, I was one of those kids...and now I'm a coach, so I kind of tend to be more patient with the tougher ones.
I'll mirror what others said. Provided they aren't destroying the team environment, I think they are better off with us than somewhere else.
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Post by dytmook on Aug 27, 2017 13:39:48 GMT -6
Give me effort and I'm happy to keep you around. I already coach oline so it's not like I get the genetic lottery winners. I can tell those who are trying and those who are not. Have a kid this year who is terrible and awkward, but I can see the difference in his stance and getting to places in drills. Could I probably get more done without those kids, yeah. Still I like to see them grow and they tend to bring you good stories.
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Post by anderson32 on Aug 27, 2017 13:42:33 GMT -6
I'm here to win football games not be a babysitter. No kid like that needs football. We can't cut but we always find ways to send the message and dump the dead weight.
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Post by blb on Aug 27, 2017 15:24:52 GMT -6
I'm here to win football games not be a babysitter. No kid like that needs football. We can't cut but we always find ways to send the message and dump the dead weight.
After reading all (eight) of your posts, it appears you have a lot to learn and not much to contribute, at least positively.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 27, 2017 15:27:06 GMT -6
I'm here to win football games not be a babysitter. No kid like that needs football. We can't cut but we always find ways to send the message and dump the dead weight. Troll on troll. Our game is under constant attack and stories about schools dropping football are popping up all the time now but let's chase kids away from the game then complain about how our game is dying. We'll take any swinging dick we can get that isn't a major problem.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Aug 29, 2017 22:31:53 GMT -6
I had this discussion with a friend recently, and I'm curious everyone views these kids. How do you handle the kids who clearly need football more than you'll ever need them? I'm all for giving them more chances to redeem themselves if they're in that situation. How do you guys deal with the kids who will most likely never be of value to your program, but need the structure and guidance and positives from football? This is a very tough situation. On our staff, we talk about the idea that people never realize how much football coaches also work as social workers, as well. We talk about guys like this, saying that "Football is way better for him than he is for football." Most times, the kid benefits and we never notice any negatives on the rest of the team. There have been a couple times, however, that we see that this kid in question brings down the rest of the team in some way or another -- because of attitude, mostly. The tough part is to decide when the other 49, 59, 69 players are more important this one kid. It's a pain in the ass. Fact is, it's a tough decision that needs to be made if we get in a situation where he is causing problems because we want to do what is best for every single kid!!!
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Post by Coach Vint on Aug 30, 2017 9:31:17 GMT -6
We do everything we can to keep them in the program, as often football is an opportunity for them to be around positive role models. Sometimes we have to cut them loose, but we only do so if it going to be best for them in the long run. Sometimes we cut a kid loose and he realizes he needs to change, and comes back a better teammate. We have a kid now who was a huge troublemaker in class last year. He didn't play football and wanted to play this fall. We told him he had to pass all his classes and reduce his discipline referrals. He did what we asked and is now playing this fall. He is not very good, but he shows up everyday and tries. He makes a lot of mistakes and sometimes gets absolutely whipped. But his teachers say he is gleaming about being on the team and has some pride in himself.
Over the last 20 years I have been a part of several good and bad experiences with giving kids an opportunity. We have had more than a few that didn't make it through, but every one of them can say their coaches cared about them and helped them to grow. About 15 years ago we had a kid that was an awesome running back. He came from a rough home life and missed a lot of practice. He eventually had to be cut loose, but we told him just because he wasn't playing that we weren't here for him. About 5 years ago he got in touch with me that he was married, successful, had 3 kids, and was coaching. He is now a defensive coordinator at a school. While we clashed a lot he took a lot of life lessons to heart. At the time I didn't think he was getting anything we were trying to build. I was wrong. While he didn't make through our program, he gained a lot for being a part of it. He prides himself on being a good father and husband, and uses his experience to mentor his players.
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 31, 2017 22:07:49 GMT -6
Coaching isn't about getting. It's about giving. Your program is there to provide a culture where kids come in and become better men for having been a part of your program.
What do you do with kids who need football more than football needs them? You coach the $hit out of them and make sure you're reinforcing habits necessary to succeed out there in the real world. The same you would of any other kid. Don't put his a$$ out there on 4th and 1, but don't have him pay to attend the game either.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 21, 2017 10:19:40 GMT -6
One of the biggest things to remember in these cases is to include your AD in this process. 1. We get kids that are at halfway houses/foster care coming out of the State youth Correctional center...we don't say they can't play but they sign a contract for behavior and we contact PO's etc.. 2. We have a transient population and we work hard to make those kids feel a part of the family as long as they are here and to help with transportation/gear/meals/academics 3. We also have a vast divide in the socio-economic status...and there is a private school nearby that draws kids away, that being said we hold all kids to the same standard of effort, loyalty, perserverence and respect.
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