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Post by hsrose on Jul 25, 2017 14:36:31 GMT -6
I'm used to variances in player numbers from year to year. But this is getting to me.
Last year, my 2nd as HC, we go 6-4, get a playoff game (lost it on a slant for TD with :04 left in the game). 4-6 the year before, my first year, and 2-8, 1-9, 1-9 the previous years. Doesn't sound like much but it's the 1st playoffs since 2007 and 1st winning season since '99.
And the reward for doing well? Player numbers are down, coaches numbers are down.
We typically have 33+ varsity players and right now I'm scrapping to get 26. I think I've got 11 seniors and 3 of those are transfers. I can't seem to build interest in playing football, it's almost like the better we do, the fewer players come out. When they were 1-9 4 years ago they had 37 on the roster. At a small school numbers like that are big.
And the coaches. I lost my DC (lost his son), my OC (left for a better job, didn't get it, and now coaching at another school), my QB, and my DL coaches since the start of the year. I've got 2 coaches that haven't taken the time to get their district certs done so they aren't likely to be with us when we start next week. So it looks like my staff of 9 on-field coaches will be 5, maybe 6.
Don't get me wrong, the players that are left are good players, kind of a weeding out of the pretenders, but this is something new to me.
And the strange part - When it was early summer and we were doing football and weights and 7v7 we'd be lucky to get 15 kids to come out. Now that we're in the dead time, no football stuff, just agilities and running and weights, we're getting 26 each day.
I have no idea what this season holds for us.
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Post by 53 on Jul 25, 2017 15:45:35 GMT -6
I'd say they were 1-9 and a history of losing because they had poor discipline and didn't demand much from them at practice.
As much as we try to make it fun and enjoyable. Football is still a lot of hard ass work, if you're a wanting to be good.
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Post by s73 on Jul 25, 2017 15:48:37 GMT -6
I'm used to variances in player numbers from year to year. But this is getting to me. Last year, my 2nd as HC, we go 6-4, get a playoff game (lost it on a slant for TD with :04 left in the game). 4-6 the year before, my first year, and 2-8, 1-9, 1-9 the previous years. Doesn't sound like much but it's the 1st playoffs since 2007 and 1st winning season since '99. And the reward for doing well? Player numbers are down, coaches numbers are down. We typically have 33+ varsity players and right now I'm scrapping to get 26. I think I've got 11 seniors and 3 of those are transfers. I can't seem to build interest in playing football, it's almost like the better we do, the fewer players come out. When they were 1-9 4 years ago they had 37 on the roster. At a small school numbers like that are big. And the coaches. I lost my DC (lost his son), my OC (left for a better job, didn't get it, and now coaching at another school), my QB, and my DL coaches since the start of the year. I've got 2 coaches that haven't taken the time to get their district certs done so they aren't likely to be with us when we start next week. So it looks like my staff of 9 on-field coaches will be 5, maybe 6. Don't get me wrong, the players that are left are good players, kind of a weeding out of the pretenders, but this is something new to me. And the strange part - When it was early summer and we were doing football and weights and 7v7 we'd be lucky to get 15 kids to come out. Now that we're in the dead time, no football stuff, just agilities and running and weights, we're getting 26 each day. I have no idea what this season holds for us. Been there done that bud. My current job we seem to have no correlation between numbers and success. I used to believe success spurred success but now I think the "concussion thing" plays an unpredictable factor. IMO it's going to be a year to year, class to class type of thing for many schools. We are a school of 850 & will have about 80-85 this fall. But, I know a school nearby that has 1300 & used to be a real power in the state & they currently have 55 total for the whole program. Big power conference in our state just dropped a level b/c schools can't field all previous organized levels and most of the schools consist of 1500-2500 kids. Just keep plugging away, not sure you can do much more. PS - 5 years ago my alma mater had 120 frosh, this year they have 80 total for the whole program.
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Post by **** on Jul 25, 2017 16:55:41 GMT -6
I'm used to variances in player numbers from year to year. But this is getting to me. Last year, my 2nd as HC, we go 6-4, get a playoff game (lost it on a slant for TD with :04 left in the game). 4-6 the year before, my first year, and 2-8, 1-9, 1-9 the previous years. Doesn't sound like much but it's the 1st playoffs since 2007 and 1st winning season since '99. And the reward for doing well? Player numbers are down, coaches numbers are down. We typically have 33+ varsity players and right now I'm scrapping to get 26. I think I've got 11 seniors and 3 of those are transfers. I can't seem to build interest in playing football, it's almost like the better we do, the fewer players come out. When they were 1-9 4 years ago they had 37 on the roster. At a small school numbers like that are big. And the coaches. I lost my DC (lost his son), my OC (left for a better job, didn't get it, and now coaching at another school), my QB, and my DL coaches since the start of the year. I've got 2 coaches that haven't taken the time to get their district certs done so they aren't likely to be with us when we start next week. So it looks like my staff of 9 on-field coaches will be 5, maybe 6. Don't get me wrong, the players that are left are good players, kind of a weeding out of the pretenders, but this is something new to me. And the strange part - When it was early summer and we were doing football and weights and 7v7 we'd be lucky to get 15 kids to come out. Now that we're in the dead time, no football stuff, just agilities and running and weights, we're getting 26 each day. I have no idea what this season holds for us. Same. Before we got to current school they were 3-7 or less for like 10 years. First year we had 26 and went 6-4 Next had about 35 went 9-2 Next had about 40 went 10-2 Now we might have 30 going into this season. Idk wtf is going on anymore. Can't wait to be back at a big school.
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Post by dytmook on Jul 25, 2017 18:16:39 GMT -6
Same issues here.
Two years ago we were 2-8 after losing 4 scholarship football guys in the off season plus several other kids.
Last year we bounce back to 6-4, 1 possession in week 4 from winning 7 straight and a playoff birth. This year starting RT who had scholarship potential transfers out, we have 8, yes only 8 freshmen, and it just doesn't make sense. I mean we did trim some fat but it's crazy.
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Post by bigmoot on Jul 25, 2017 18:26:49 GMT -6
going into 3rd year. spent 1st 2 rebuilding. record not good but play is significantly better. had a great spring, beat nearby 3x larger in scrimmage. weight room going very well. going into summer, I'm pumped.
summer has sucked. can't get them to commit...never seen anything like.
I ve literally gone from thinking we may make a playoff run to I need a new job.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Jul 25, 2017 19:59:22 GMT -6
Just a heads up, from reading dumcoach (Youth football forum), numbers are VERY LOW for all of their organizations with quite a few of them having to call it quits. A very uncertain future for the sport
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Post by utchuckd on Jul 26, 2017 5:28:08 GMT -6
We average 40 players for a given year, last year had 45, went undefeated and won our conference. This year we currently have 25 guys in pads, roughly half 7th grade and half 8th grade. Inconsistent attendance, don't know how to work, and don't seem too willing to learn. But it's my job to teach them so there's that.
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Post by option1 on Jul 26, 2017 10:01:27 GMT -6
We have 2300+ and will probably dress low 40's and really only about 25 of those would survive on the field.
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Post by dubber on Jul 26, 2017 14:39:35 GMT -6
We have 2300+ and will probably dress low 40's and really only about 25 of those would survive on the field. What?! We have 220 kids in our high school, and usually average 40 on the team.....36% of male population...this season will be low 30's......junior class only has 2-3 players We recruit our kids to play (athletes and big kids have to say no to us for 4 years.......they get letters sent to their homes, hand written notes, etc.), and we make it easy for younger guys to come out late. I say we are low 30's right now, but that's what we have at weights/summer workouts. Come the start of school, we will get 6-7 more bodies (helps round out the JV). I can't tell you how many times one of these summer no shows comes out and plays JV, and then ends up loving football and being a committed team member for the next 3 years. I use to be blood and guts, be dedicated or get the heck out type of coach, but I really came around to this different way of doing business. Moreover, our weight program gets kids ready for Fridays. Usually on a roster of 40, we would have 19-20 varsity players. Our good sophomores almost always play because of how they work. We have a handful of advanced PE class, but EVERY football player takes it for 4 years. So I can't imagine having a pool of 2300 kids and only getting 40 to come out to play......that's like 3.5% of your male population. To the OP, keep plugging....sounds like you have some bad luck.......how are your returning players' numbers?
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Post by dblwngr on Jul 26, 2017 15:05:11 GMT -6
I think it has a lot to do with the concussion scare for sure. I also think it has to do with a few other variables.
Think of this from a kids perspective- We tell our kids to get out there and recruit there buddy's, and this is their selling point.
"Hey bro, you should totally play football! Gonna need you to come to spring practice, go to spring football camp, hit the weight room, 3 to 4 times a week all summer, make it to the 7 on 7 camp, do 7 on 7 locally all summer, help us fundraise, help us put on a youth football camp, and then we have daily doubles in August! The good new is, we have one full week where we cant do anything so make sure to go out and have fun and be a kid during that time! Oh yeah, your other sports coaches are going to want you to attend camps and such too, better not do them if they interfere with football cause the coach will probably build up a resentment for you for not choosing football." So wadda ya think? Sound good?
I think as coaches we've kind of brought in on ourselves. Over the years we added more and more over the summer and if you don't follow suit with everyone else, you're just going to be behind, it's that simple.
I also think it's just a different world we live in now. Kids don't want to work hard, they're all so used to instant gratification, something else we've brought on ourselves in society but that's a whole other topic. Football is hard, so it's becoming less desirable.
That being said, the numbers at our school and our league have dropped a large amount as well.
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Post by option1 on Jul 26, 2017 16:20:41 GMT -6
@ dubber, that 40 is a varsity number. We will have another 40 or so on JV. JV is 90% 9th graders.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 26, 2017 20:52:21 GMT -6
In some schools , like where I used to coach, expectations crush kids.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jul 27, 2017 7:19:53 GMT -6
We have 2300+ and will probably dress low 40's and really only about 25 of those would survive on the field. Is this 9-12 and only expecting low 40s?! Not to pick on you coach, because I know that's tough but this does make me feel better about my post: We are a school of close to 600 kids and last year we dressed 40 9-12. We had a very successful year as we went 6-3 (coming off a 2-7 and 3-6 previously) and were picked to be 6th out of 7 in our district. Heck, most of our senior parents admitted at several points during the season they only expected to win 1-2 games! However, instead of building off that-as others have said in this thread--we're unfortunately going the other way with numbers. If we have anything over 30 this year, I would be surprised.
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Post by blb on Jul 27, 2017 7:36:44 GMT -6
What often happens is class of kids don't do well at youth or MS level.
They decide (consciously or otherwise) that as a group they aren't good at football.
Some will stick with the sport but feel that since they are going to lose anyway why bust their azzes in Off-Season?
Others won't want to do the hard work just to go through the losing and drop by the wayside, usually concentrate on other sport(s).
Has nothing to do with school's tradition or even recent success, or who-how good coach is.
One class like this can kill a program especially at a small school.
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Post by option1st on Jul 27, 2017 8:14:36 GMT -6
I'm 31. I was raised in football. I watched my older brothers play and I recall my playing days greatly. Simply put, our current culture is pussifying kids. I also coach basketball. I see it across the board. Too many parents don't want Johnny to be mentally or physically strained, and little Johnny certainly doesn't want to be pushed. This is not all kids, but it is the 30% to 20% that aren't coming out for football and thus resulting in your lowered numbers. We're down from 36 to 26 at a small school. It hurts.
My best kids are the ones from tough home lives. You can coach the hell out of them, they do not feel entitled to anything, and they are hungry to earn your respect and have a relationship with a male adult. I love those guys.
I too am worried about the games future. Our culture used to embrace toughness, rigor and the type of "toil" Theodore Roosevelt spoke of. Now kids are much more individualistic, they all act like superstars on social media, they want the attention and fame but too many of them want it easy.
Oh well, the world will keep spinning and we'll keep trying to figure out how to have success in a culture that is increasingly turning against the principles that make up the game we love.
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Post by dubber on Jul 27, 2017 8:22:59 GMT -6
@ dubber, that 40 is a varsity number. We will have another 40 or so on JV. JV is 90% 9th graders. So 36 freshmen?
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Post by option1 on Jul 27, 2017 9:12:07 GMT -6
We have 2300+ and will probably dress low 40's and really only about 25 of those would survive on the field. Is this 9-12 and only expecting low 40s?! Not to pick on you coach, because I know that's tough but this does make me feel better about my post: We are a school of close to 600 kids and last year we dressed 40 9-12. We had a very successful year as we went 6-3 (coming off a 2-7 and 3-6 previously) and were picked to be 6th out of 7 in our district. Heck, most of our senior parents admitted at several points during the season they only expected to win 1-2 games! However, instead of building off that-as others have said in this thread--we're unfortunately going the other way with numbers. If we have anything over 30 this year, I would be surprised. Yes, 9-12. We will dress low 40's for varsity games on Friday and approx. another 40 for Thursday JV games. Approx. 80 total. @ dubber, that 40 is a varsity number. We will have another 40 or so on JV. JV is 90% 9th graders. So 36 freshmen? About that. Many of them won't make it though. We start with 85-100 kids each year depending on how many 9th graders show up after school starts. The 80ish number is where we end up through JV. We only keep a handful of players after JV season. We dressed 42 for our final varsity game last season.
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Post by dubber on Jul 27, 2017 9:13:59 GMT -6
What do you do to try and retain them?
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Post by option1 on Jul 27, 2017 9:22:05 GMT -6
What do you do to try and retain them? We don't lose many that can play.
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Post by hsrose on Jul 27, 2017 9:33:56 GMT -6
As part of my marketing a couple of years ago I got a teacher here, radio guy in a former life, to do a reading/recording. I then used that audio in a video that I got put up in the local theater. bullfrogfootball.com/Bullfrog_Football/Bullfrog_Football_files/01%20BH%20Reese%2001%20Why%20Play.m4aI think what I'm seeing here is indeed a weeding out of players. Those with stronger character are showing up and working. Those that are weaker, weaker players, weaker character, are not showing up. And when I really look at the list of who is not here I'm not hurt by their absence, they weren't likely to be starters. Do we need numbers, most certainly, but the numbers I do have are the 'better' kids, not just the cash flow kids ("Well, Johnny can't play worth a lick, but he can always be cash flow."). The lower numbers affect our practice structure, and we're razor thin on backups, but the players that are left are the better kids. And our youth program is seeing the same thing, lower numbers for both coaches and players. They just had their registration a couple of days ago but I haven't seen the numbers.
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Post by dubber on Jul 27, 2017 13:20:59 GMT -6
What do you do to try and retain them? We don't lose many that can play. How can you tell if a 15 year old will or won't be a player at 18? There has to be kids in that building that can help...how do you reach them?
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Post by dubber on Jul 27, 2017 15:11:49 GMT -6
What do you do to try and retain them? We don't lose many that can play. Many is not all......on a team of 40, a handful more varsity guys can make the difference. Have you all considered that by keeping a higher number of kids around, you will keep some that "cannot play", but that you would also keep some that can? Heck, what if one of those worthless kids becomes a special teams guy, long snapper, holder? I'm not trying to pick on you in particular......I just feel football is a gift that 20% of the male population or 100 kids (whichever is lower) should be participating in.....
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Post by option1 on Jul 27, 2017 18:14:11 GMT -6
dubber, you may be right. I know our HC does a very good job making our team a presence at the school. We our "cool" and relevant. We recruit our halls and are visible in every department.
Our numbers are average for the county. Few have more and many have less. We are the 8th largest district in the U.S. but school sizes and classifications vary. That being said the district/state caps how many we can travel in regular season and less for playoffs. Like I said, we field 80ish and we have roughly 100 sets of equipment. So even if we had over that we would have to cut to below 10% of our male population.
Specialization is a big factor. Basketball and baseball are literally year round. They actually play and dont really practice out of season which is something kids most definitely want. We lose more than a few when kids figure that out every year.
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Post by dubber on Jul 27, 2017 18:44:39 GMT -6
dubber, you may be right. I know our HC does a very good job making our team a presence at the school. We our "cool" and relevant. We recruit our halls and are visible in every department. Our numbers are average for the county. Few have more and many have less. We are the 8th largest district in the U.S. but school sizes and classifications vary. That being said the district/state caps how many we can travel in regular season and less for playoffs. Like I said, we field 80ish and we have roughly 100 sets of equipment. So even if we had over that we would have to cut to below 10% of our male population. Specialization is a big factor. Basketball and baseball are literally year round. They actually play and dont really practice out of season which is something kids most definitely want. We lose more than a few when kids figure that out every year. You are right, I'm not in your situation...,I apologize if i got preachy.
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 28, 2017 1:47:40 GMT -6
We're going throw the same stuff. We went 9-3 last year and won the first playoff game in school history but the numbers are extremely low. We are a school of 1800+ but our varsity has maybe 13 guys returning. In terms of Freshman (which is our largest class), today was the last day of offseason workouts and we had two guys show up in the weight room with four more out on the field for the field work portion. If we're lucky we will be north of 70 guys in the whole program, which is now only two levels.
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Post by huddlehut on Jul 28, 2017 10:13:46 GMT -6
I'm 31. I was raised in football. I watched my older brothers play and I recall my playing days greatly. Simply put, our current culture is pussifying kids. I also coach basketball. I see it across the board. Too many parents don't want Johnny to be mentally or physically strained, and little Johnny certainly doesn't want to be pushed. This is not all kids, but it is the 30% to 20% that aren't coming out for football and thus resulting in your lowered numbers. We're down from 36 to 26 at a small school. It hurts. My best kids are the ones from tough home lives. You can coach the hell out of them, they do not feel entitled to anything, and they are hungry to earn your respect and have a relationship with a male adult. I love those guys. I too am worried about the games future. Our culture used to embrace toughness, rigor and the type of "toil" Theodore Roosevelt spoke of. Now kids are much more individualistic, they all act like superstars on social media, they want the attention and fame but too many of them want it easy. Oh well, the world will keep spinning and we'll keep trying to figure out how to have success in a culture that is increasingly turning against the principles that make up the game we love. Great post! I know that you libs will recoil at this, but Rush Limbaugh spoke at length on the woosification of America and the destruction of football on his show on Thursday, July 27. He is right - in so many ways! The libs are emasculating our youth. I dare you to listen to yesterday's broadcast! You won't disagree even if you live in California!
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Post by hsrose on Jul 31, 2017 20:53:56 GMT -6
We had our 1st day of practice today and the numbers are way down. We had 21 on varsity and 20 on JV. I've got 3 kids out of the area, likely not back until close to school starting, but the total number of 41-45 players is down from the 63-70 of last year. That's a big, big drop. Hopefully the kids will get back and we'll get some additional freshmen showing up, but otherwise we're going to be Iron Man football at all levels.
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 2, 2017 0:04:23 GMT -6
I'm 31. I was raised in football. I watched my older brothers play and I recall my playing days greatly. Simply put, our current culture is pussifying kids. I also coach basketball. I see it across the board. Too many parents don't want Johnny to be mentally or physically strained, and little Johnny certainly doesn't want to be pushed. This is not all kids, but it is the 30% to 20% that aren't coming out for football and thus resulting in your lowered numbers. We're down from 36 to 26 at a small school. It hurts. My best kids are the ones from tough home lives. You can coach the hell out of them, they do not feel entitled to anything, and they are hungry to earn your respect and have a relationship with a male adult. I love those guys. I too am worried about the games future. Our culture used to embrace toughness, rigor and the type of "toil" Theodore Roosevelt spoke of. Now kids are much more individualistic, they all act like superstars on social media, they want the attention and fame but too many of them want it easy. Oh well, the world will keep spinning and we'll keep trying to figure out how to have success in a culture that is increasingly turning against the principles that make up the game we love. Great post! I know that you libs will recoil at this, but Rush Limbaugh spoke at length on the woosification of America and the destruction of football on his show on Thursday, July 27. He is right - in so many ways! The libs are emasculating our youth. I dare you to listen to yesterday's broadcast! You won't disagree even if you live in California! I'm as liberal as they come..... I coach my kids {censored} hard and expect physicality, toughness both physically mentally, and great {censored} effort. I hold my kids to the highest standard possible in terms of expectations.
Just shut up.
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Post by huddlehut on Aug 2, 2017 4:47:48 GMT -6
Great post! I know that you libs will recoil at this, but Rush Limbaugh spoke at length on the woosification of America and the destruction of football on his show on Thursday, July 27. He is right - in so many ways! The libs are emasculating our youth. I dare you to listen to yesterday's broadcast! You won't disagree even if you live in California! I'm as liberal as they come..... I coach my kids {censored} hard and expect physicality, toughness both physically mentally, and great {censored} effort. I hold my kids to the highest standard possible in terms of expectations.
Just shut up.
Just curious... Do your players stand up during the National Anthem?
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