|
Post by hsrose on Aug 1, 2017 14:45:31 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Aug 1, 2017 14:49:56 GMT -6
As a former player and a current coach here are my 2 cents, then I'll leave it alone...
I bet firefighters burn to death way higher than the normal average I bet cops die from gunshot more than the normal average I bet chefs die from heart issues more than the normal average I bet truckers die from car accidents more than the normal average I bet fisherman die from drowning more than the normal average
Everything in the world has risk... does the positives you experience from being in a team sport, along with all the positive things you learn about yourself, your coaches/players/family, and life outweigh the possibility of the negative?
We are all going to die of something, unless someone learns how to undo the 3 laws of thermodynamics... it is all going to be self caused... too much CO2 from driving too much, starving to death if we don't drive our food from where it is grown to where it is needed. Cities near the coast could flood and kill a lot of people... should we all move to Nebraska? Oh wait... tornados suck ass too!
My daughter is 7 and is begging to play football next year... she will My son is 4 and wants to play football... he will in 4 years
Name me something that doesn't have negative impact on somebody, somewhere... I live in Utah and coffee is a huge deal... I made some kids do a research project and see what killed more people last year. Drinking coffee or drinking water. Looked it up. Only 3 people died last year from ANY caffeine related issue. All 3 inhaled 100% pure caffeine powder. None died from drinking it. More than 100,000 died from DRINKING WATER... We should ban water. It can kill you.
Keep fighting the good fight. Educate the kids and parents and let them make the decision. If I end up dying 10 or 20 years earlier than I may have because of the damage I took from playing football, basketball, and baseball for a very large portion of my life up til now... so be it. All of the friends, values, lessons, ups, downs, emotions, pain, joy, and everything else that makes life worth living far outweigh the negative thing that COULD happen because of it. Cars kill more people a year than football ever will. We are not going to make driving illegal. Planes crash, boats sink, people will die. We still live in a universe where we think we are the only thing immune from the "eat or be eaten" existence of life. At the end of the day, we are just here for a short time, and the universe will chew us up and spit us back out. Use the grey matter between the ears, make the best decisions you can, and accept the consequences. If you want your kid to be a sit-at-home computer nerd to keep him safe, have fun paying for the, glasses, carpel tunnel, diabetes, and counseling when he has no real friends and pisses himself if he sees a girl in real-life.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Aug 1, 2017 15:14:22 GMT -6
I read an article last week that more fishermen are killed every year (33 on avg.) by lightning strikes than any other group in USA.
Maybe we should outlaw fishing to save anglers from themselves.
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Aug 1, 2017 15:39:58 GMT -6
Hat tip to Brophy for the sneaky humor he used in titling this thread.
And hat tip to all for keeping this fairly civil and intelligible.
|
|
|
Post by seabass on Aug 1, 2017 15:55:10 GMT -6
I heard a PT say that most people over the age of 40 have some degree of a bulging disc but that doesn't guarantee they will ever suffer from symptoms related to the disc.
I wonder if we will eventually find out that CTE is similar? Maybe it turns out that lots of us (football players and non football players) have some degree of CTE just because we lived long enough for the brain to have it happen but it never gets to a point that it impacts our lives?
Not a statement but real question.
|
|
|
Post by seabass on Aug 1, 2017 16:01:26 GMT -6
...but that is not the way media is covering it...the headline is "99% of NFL Players Die With CTE", not "99% of NFL Players WHO THOUGHT THEY HAD CTE Die With CTE". What about the thousands that didn't donate their brains because they didn't have symptoms? The average non-football person who doesn't read until that sentence about needing more research could easily take away that an NFL career is a death sentence by CTE when it probably is not. We understand that & the researchers do to, but in most news stories I've listened to, seen or read that is not mentioned. That is why this has been regarded as "fake news" by groundchuck & others earlier in the thread. Most people remember the headlines, especially if they already have pre-conceived notions or agendas. Do we need to be very cognizant of limiting contact & collisions...YES. Is every football player, especially those that don't go past an 8-9 year career going to have CTE...I'm not sure...probably not as others have pointed out otherwise there would be millions of men who played HS & College Football with CTE. For every story of that 1 guy who had it for sure by age 25 or 30 there are 10000+ who didn't. Football is risky. Let's be up front about that, but also let's be up front about the value it has in teaching young men delayed gratification of how to work hard for months as part of a team throughout the off-season(s) towards a long term goal (9-14 games) and most importantly how we now minimize the risks associated with it. The tricky part coach, is that if you try to go the route I have underlined, it can easily be argued that those things can be achieved from participating in other sports/activities. I believe football has a few important/special aspects that the others don't. You could argue that they aren't worth the cost but I believe I would win an argument that football IS different in several ways. That is by no means meant to be combative or to derail a civil thread...just what I believe.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Aug 1, 2017 16:56:34 GMT -6
The tricky part coach, is that if you try to go the route I have underlined, it can easily be argued that those things can be achieved from participating in other sports/activities. I believe football has a few important/special aspects that the others don't. You could argue that they aren't worth the cost but I believe I would win an argument that football IS different in several ways. That is by no means meant to be combative or to derail a civil thread...just what I believe. I am game : -- toughness? I will take wrestlers over football players for toughness. Hell, as much as I knock it for a sports training program, crossfit as a competitive sport probably produces more mentally tough athletes than football. --Teamwork? While it doesn't seem like something that would be said on a football message board, robotics teams probably showcase teamwork (especially as will be utilized as an adult) more than athletics. To what aspects are you referring?
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Aug 1, 2017 23:43:36 GMT -6
As a former player and a current coach here are my 2 cents, then I'll leave it alone... I bet firefighters burn to death way higher than the normal average I bet cops die from gunshot more than the normal average I bet chefs die from heart issues more than the normal average I bet truckers die from car accidents more than the normal average I bet fisherman die from drowning more than the normal average Everything in the world has risk... does the positives you experience from being in a team sport, along with all the positive things you learn about yourself, your coaches/players/family, and life outweigh the possibility of the negative? We are all going to die of something, unless someone learns how to undo the 3 laws of thermodynamics... it is all going to be self caused... too much CO2 from driving too much, starving to death if we don't drive our food from where it is grown to where it is needed. Cities near the coast could flood and kill a lot of people... should we all move to Nebraska? Oh wait... tornados suck ass too! My daughter is 7 and is begging to play football next year... she will My son is 4 and wants to play football... he will in 4 years Name me something that doesn't have negative impact on somebody, somewhere... I live in Utah and coffee is a huge deal... I made some kids do a research project and see what killed more people last year. Drinking coffee or drinking water. Looked it up. Only 3 people died last year from ANY caffeine related issue. All 3 inhaled 100% pure caffeine powder. None died from drinking it. More than 100,000 died from DRINKING WATER... We should ban water. It can kill you. Keep fighting the good fight. Educate the kids and parents and let them make the decision. If I end up dying 10 or 20 years earlier than I may have because of the damage I took from playing football, basketball, and baseball for a very large portion of my life up til now... so be it. All of the friends, values, lessons, ups, downs, emotions, pain, joy, and everything else that makes life worth living far outweigh the negative thing that COULD happen because of it. Cars kill more people a year than football ever will. We are not going to make driving illegal. Planes crash, boats sink, people will die. We still live in a universe where we think we are the only thing immune from the "eat or be eaten" existence of life. At the end of the day, we are just here for a short time, and the universe will chew us up and spit us back out. Use the grey matter between the ears, make the best decisions you can, and accept the consequences. If you want your kid to be a sit-at-home computer nerd to keep him safe, have fun paying for the, glasses, carpel tunnel, diabetes, and counseling when he has no real friends and pisses himself if he sees a girl in real-life. RE {censored} TWEET! best post ever!!! I'd like to by you a beer sometime...... oops wait that'll kill us. Maybe coffee then?
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Aug 2, 2017 7:48:46 GMT -6
As a former player and a current coach here are my 2 cents, then I'll leave it alone... I bet firefighters burn to death way higher than the normal average I bet cops die from gunshot more than the normal average I bet chefs die from heart issues more than the normal average I bet truckers die from car accidents more than the normal average I bet fisherman die from drowning more than the normal average Everything in the world has risk... does the positives you experience from being in a team sport, along with all the positive things you learn about yourself, your coaches/players/family, and life outweigh the possibility of the negative? We are all going to die of something, unless someone learns how to undo the 3 laws of thermodynamics... it is all going to be self caused... too much CO2 from driving too much, starving to death if we don't drive our food from where it is grown to where it is needed. Cities near the coast could flood and kill a lot of people... should we all move to Nebraska? Oh wait... tornados suck ass too! My daughter is 7 and is begging to play football next year... she will My son is 4 and wants to play football... he will in 4 years Name me something that doesn't have negative impact on somebody, somewhere... I live in Utah and coffee is a huge deal... I made some kids do a research project and see what killed more people last year. Drinking coffee or drinking water. Looked it up. Only 3 people died last year from ANY caffeine related issue. All 3 inhaled 100% pure caffeine powder. None died from drinking it. More than 100,000 died from DRINKING WATER... We should ban water. It can kill you. Keep fighting the good fight. Educate the kids and parents and let them make the decision. If I end up dying 10 or 20 years earlier than I may have because of the damage I took from playing football, basketball, and baseball for a very large portion of my life up til now... so be it. All of the friends, values, lessons, ups, downs, emotions, pain, joy, and everything else that makes life worth living far outweigh the negative thing that COULD happen because of it. Cars kill more people a year than football ever will. We are not going to make driving illegal. Planes crash, boats sink, people will die. We still live in a universe where we think we are the only thing immune from the "eat or be eaten" existence of life. At the end of the day, we are just here for a short time, and the universe will chew us up and spit us back out. Use the grey matter between the ears, make the best decisions you can, and accept the consequences. If you want your kid to be a sit-at-home computer nerd to keep him safe, have fun paying for the, glasses, carpel tunnel, diabetes, and counseling when he has no real friends and pisses himself if he sees a girl in real-life. RE {censored} TWEET! best post ever!!! I'd like to by you a beer sometime...... oops wait that'll kill us. Maybe coffee then? I'm always down to get a beer. My liver will be donated to science. I've been killing it for years
|
|
|
Post by seabass on Aug 2, 2017 10:54:50 GMT -6
I believe football has a few important/special aspects that the others don't. You could argue that they aren't worth the cost but I believe I would win an argument that football IS different in several ways. That is by no means meant to be combative or to derail a civil thread...just what I believe. I am game : -- toughness? I will take wrestlers over football players for toughness. Hell, as much as I knock it for a sports training program, crossfit as a competitive sport probably produces more mentally tough athletes than football. --Teamwork? While it doesn't seem like something that would be said on a football message board, robotics teams probably showcase teamwork (especially as will be utilized as an adult) more than athletics. To what aspects are you referring? These are a few of the special opportunities unique to football: 1-Football is more inclusive than the other sports. In part due to the shear number of participants it requires but also because of the varying body types and skill sets it requires. A basketball team only has 1-2 spots for a short kid and that's only if the short kid has some other skill that is hard to find. A baseball team only has room for 1-2 kids that are 5'11" and 250 unless you have 5 of those dudes who can pitch or mash. A football team has all kinds of room for 5'11" 250# dudes. There are other examples but you get the point. So...becasue football requires a lot of dudes it also creates the most athletic opportunities for the male portion of the student body where as those kids may not have many other athletic opportunities. 2- COST- To the participant. It is cheaper to play than basketball, baseball or soccer. If you are a top tier baseball, basketball or soccer player, you are playing those sports most of the summer in a traveling fashion. At least where I live. That might not be true everywhere. I paid $6k for my son to play travel baseball over the summer and he played against 100's of other kids whose parent did the same. AAU basketball and premier soccer are the same way in our area. Not to mention all of the specialized skills that have to be learned and the guys that teach those skills typically charge money as well. Most of the work a football player needs to do is on his body and that isn't expensive...usually 3-Delayed Gratification -has been discussed but I still believe is a bigger deal in football and very important. Most football players are going to get a practice to game ratio of 5/1 or something close to that. The other 3 sports have damn near as many game days as they do practice days when you add in all of the tournaments and summer league games. I always tell our guys that practices are work days and games are paydays. I get a pay day twice/month but I work 5 days/week. Football's pay cycle is a little more real world. 4-The different job descriptions and duties on a football team also more closely resemble the diversity of a workplace. I have no f'ing clue what our nerd does to make my computer work with all of the other computers in my office but I know I can't do my job until he does his. Unfortunately, for him, my job is way more glamorous and I get paid more than him. Regardless, I'm powerless without him. Football teams aren't that different. Not too many players know what another's job is EVEN IF THEY DO, many of them couldn't do the other's job and a few players get much of the glory from the unknowing. 5-PHYSICAL COMBAT- Lots of boys need and want this. I realize you can find this in other sports but nowhere can you find physical combat as a team. I think there is value in that. There is a unique confidence that comes from being tested in a combative nature. Not everyone needs it but many do. I have a few more but this post is already way longer than I like. Coachd5085- You had to name several different activities to come up with various positive aspects of football. All 5 of mine can be found individually in other activities as well but football has the potential to check all of your boxes and some of mine in 1 place.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Aug 3, 2017 7:53:07 GMT -6
I believe Rugby would be a sport that not only is tougher than football but also require more athleticism. Its too bad it will never really catch on across America
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Aug 3, 2017 8:02:19 GMT -6
I have been telling parents this: If you aren't going to let your son play football because of CTE, yet let your children ride a bike or snow mobile (since this is MN) without a helmet they you are a hypocrite. I am tired of the fake-news, hype-news not only about concussions but about just about everything else. What about getting a driver's license? www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db37.htmDriving is more dangerous to teenagers than playing football.
|
|
|
Post by hsrose on Aug 3, 2017 9:03:39 GMT -6
brophy - Rugby. Played it 1 year intramural in college. 2nd game I tackle a guy, get my head behind, and catch a cleat on the orbit bone over my left eye. Nice big cut right on the bone. Blood all over my face and head and jersey, got the bandage at an angle over the head, looked very cool. Ended with 6 stitches in it later that night. Another guy I went to school with broke his neck in a scrum. Got bent over and the scrum just crushed him. He was in a chair for 2-3 years after that I remember, eventually walking with canes. Lost track after that. We've had couple big time football player recruits, not many, elect to play college team/club rugby rather than go football scholarship. Some participation numbers from CIF (CA). Lacrosse is up 7.4%, football is down 3.12% Article on the participation - www.prep2prep.com/feature.aspx?ArticleID=19054News release from CIF - www.cifstate.org/coaches-admin/census/2017_CIF_Participation_Census.pdf
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Aug 3, 2017 13:49:37 GMT -6
I think the difference between football and all the other professions and activities listed above (firefighters, police officers, drivers, etc.) is that most would consider those professions and activities essential to our society and economy; whereas they would not consider football to be.
|
|
|
Post by vanden48 on Aug 6, 2017 10:19:42 GMT -6
amgreatness.com/2017/07/30/defense-americas-game/For every CTE article that comes out, someone needs to write one like this up. The Stanford study did nothing more than test to accuracy of CTE diagnostics, as the brains that were looked at were already diagnosed with CTE before they died. And when you look at the results, the HS brains was around 21%. That means that if you only played high school football, and you are having brain problems, there is a 1/5 chance it was caused by the repeated head blows you took playing high school football. Which means there is a 4/5 chance it was something else. The Failing New York Times takes a legitimate scientific study and turns the outcomes and measures of the study upside down. All to attack the sport of football. Girls soccer has more concussions on average than football. But why are they not attacking girls soccer? Because there is no money there. NFL is the big cash cow when it comes to sports, and those that can't make a living through working with football, will try and cash out in attacking it. Shame on the Failing New York Times.
|
|
|
Post by natenator on Aug 9, 2017 7:15:41 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Aug 9, 2017 7:23:21 GMT -6
Good piece by the huff post but then this....... boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/08/concussion-expert-football-child-abuse-cte-nfl/#.WYsIxzRH_q8.twitter we are losing the battle
|
|
|
Post by blb on Aug 9, 2017 7:35:38 GMT -6
Participation in HS Football was down 2.3% last year.
But there were still over a million kids playing nationwide.
Not time to panic yet.
|
|
|
Post by natenator on Aug 9, 2017 12:26:00 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by joris85 on Aug 9, 2017 12:26:04 GMT -6
To add to the perception difference, here is a picture that was shown in the newspaper in Belgium on Marouane Fellaini, a National team soccer player. dsocdn.akamaized.net/Assets/Images_Upload/2017/08/09/0fc7d2b6-7cee-11e7-a4f9-248672888215_web_scale_0.175_0.175__.jpg?maxheight=416&maxwidth=568People were making fun of the snapshot of him taking a header on a ball, which i'm sure incurred a subconcussive hit. After that, he was carted off the field after a collision with the head of Sergio Ramos and the media APPLAUDED him for playing injured, while he was clearly concussed. Imagine you are a football coach or athletic trainer and clearly notice along with the media watching that one of your players is clearly concussed, but you put him back in and the media finds out. I wonder if you'd get applauded for that...
|
|
|
Post by tothehouse on Aug 9, 2017 22:36:02 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Aug 10, 2017 5:21:03 GMT -6
I think that this story really belongs in one of the thread about low numbers. Everybody's naturally linking this to CTE but there's no evidence that that's a major reason for the drop in numbers.
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Aug 10, 2017 5:41:14 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by natenator on Aug 10, 2017 9:22:54 GMT -6
IDK..... maybe use some research skills and google.... "boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/08/concussion-expert-football-child-abuse-cte-nfl" I bet you get there. What are you talking about?
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Aug 10, 2017 9:27:04 GMT -6
IDK..... maybe use some research skills and google.... "boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/08/concussion-expert-football-child-abuse-cte-nfl" I bet you get there. What are you talking about? Clearly my CTE acted up this morning.............
|
|
|
Post by Yash on Aug 10, 2017 11:09:27 GMT -6
I hear them say that combat veterans are at a higher risk for CTE. This doesn't make sense to me as a veteran. Most combat experiences are a 1 time thing, not a multiple impact event. One explosion (humvee hits IED, RPG explodes,). It's not a multiple impact situation. So if one impact causss CTE isn't everyone susceptible to this if they were in a car accident, fell down stairs, or sneezed hard?
Seems like something that definitely can be linked to head blows but seems like much more of the population could have it than just football players.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Aug 10, 2017 11:21:01 GMT -6
I hear them say that combat veterans are at a higher risk for CTE. This doesn't make sense to me as a veteran. Most combat experiences are a 1 time thing, not a multiple impact event. One explosion (humvee hits IED, RPG explodes,). It's not a multiple impact situation. So if one impact causss CTE isn't everyone susceptible to this if they were in a car accident, fell down stairs, or sneezed hard? Seems like something that definitely can be linked to head blows but seems like much more of the population could have it than just football players. On that note, I'm sure that one of the college football players whose brains were studied was the Ohio State guy who killed himself. Thing is, he wasn't really a college football player. He was a wrestler who had walked on to the football team and had only been on the team for a few months. He had been diagnosed with multiple concussions as a wrestler. Of course, though, he's listed as a college football player with CTE.
|
|
|
Post by coachklee on Aug 13, 2017 15:03:28 GMT -6
Participation in HS Football was down 2.3% last year. But there were still over a million kids playing nationwide. Not time to panic yet. Yet... It likely is not the only thing, but is one of several things that for some reason is driving down numbers, at least for several programs here in Southwest Michigan that supposedly have lower numbers. However, if I had to guess it has more to do with other dynamics then only CTE (football requires a big time pre-season commitment to truly be ready to be competitive).
|
|
|
Post by coachks on Aug 14, 2017 11:18:32 GMT -6
Participation in HS Football was down 2.3% last year. But there were still over a million kids playing nationwide. Not time to panic yet. Yet... It likely is not the only thing, but is one of several things that for some reason is driving down numbers, at least for several programs here in Southwest Michigan that supposedly have lower numbers. However, if I had to guess it has more to do with other dynamics then only CTE (football requires a big time pre-season commitment to truly be ready to be competitive). What is driving down numbers (everywhere) are other sports. At my school we are about 60 kids in the program from an 800 kid school. That's about 10-15 "lower" then what we would want. (75 would be about perfect IMO). We lose 5 - 8 kids to Soccer. A lot of them were turned off to football by their middle school experience and went to Soccer instead. It is tough for mid-sized schools (like ours) to divide fall athletes like that. I wish boys soccer would be a spring sport (where it competes with Baseball which has a much smaller roster). We have 2-3 kids who are "basketball only" AAU players. By AAU I mean someones dad enters them into random tournaments around the state in front of crowds that can be counted on 2 hands. Then about 3 other "baseball only" kids. Gotta play fall ball if you are going to develop. We lost 1 to Lacrosse (offered at a different school). I know a few other schools have lost kids to club rugby teams. Most of the kids (not all, but most) think they are going to get a scholarship in their sport. They ignore the reality of what we tell them - Baseball teams split their scholarships into fractions... to go to more expensive schools. There are not basketball scholarships for 6'1 post players. Soccer has 10 scholarships and about 200 schools to give them..... Just the ACC and SEC give more scholarships then all of D1 Soccer.... Not that getting a scholarship is the end all / be all anyway - the issue is that these kids are being lied to by people looking to make a profit. (It also has nothing to do with our Baseball or Basketball coaches telling kids not to play football - we are all trying to get more kids to play multiple sports for the school teams).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:20:07 GMT -6
I've heard Dr. Bennet "Concussion" Omalu on the radio promoting his latest book. If you read interviews, he sounds scary but reasoned... however, if you can hear his voice in interviews he sounds absolutely unhinged, like the Alex Jones of medicine.
He's telling parents that ANY contact sports have a "100% chance of causing brain damage" and that parents who let their kids play football are "committing child abuse" and will one day be prosecuted for it successfully. The guy is calling for an end to all contact sports.
It's notable that CTE isn't exclusive to football players and fighters. It's also been found in soccer players (from headers), baseball players, etc. There was also a huge study that just came out over the summer that found that HS football players were at no greater risk of CTE, or of showing adverse cognitive effects in old age, than the general population. That was based off guys in their 60s who had no concussion protocols and inferior safety equipment.
It's all one big alarmist narrative to scare people. Most of the research and media frenzy pushing the "football causes killer CTE" narrative is due to 2 researchers who've only studied pro football players and others who had shown major signs of something being wrong. Others have not corraborated their claims, but these two are establishing themselves as the focal points for the hype train and made a huge career off the fame and notoriety.
|
|