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Post by badtotheflexbone on May 29, 2017 22:10:30 GMT -6
We talk a lot about developing schemes, players, etc. What are you go to points for developing coaches? Do great assistant coaches an innate ability to be great or can it be developed? Thoughts?
I've thought about coaching coaches just like I would my players but then I figured they might just become clones of me (which might be a good thing!) I try to avoid the the good ol' "I don't like to be micro-managed", well then my thoughts are "Well what's the alternative then? You do whatever you want with no knowledge of what you're teaching?"
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Post by tothehouse on May 29, 2017 22:30:37 GMT -6
In my school district...we aren't hiring teachers that coach...nor are that many qualified coaches around in general. I'd love to develop somebody underneath me, but it ain't happenin. And I'll probably be done coaching before somebody takes my place.
Sad state of affairs.
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Post by realdawg on May 30, 2017 3:09:47 GMT -6
Why are they not hiring teachers that coach? Is that an actual policy or just sort of de facto?
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Post by tothehouse on May 30, 2017 9:40:48 GMT -6
Dawg...it's what is happening. I'm sure they would say they would want one...but they don't act on it. Some school districts around our area won't hire a teacher that DOESN'T coach. We have this "gotta be a good teacher first" thing going. I'm 44 years old. I'm the ONLY FOOTBALL COACH ON CAMPUS NEXT FALL.
By default I'm the youngest football coach on campus. I guess that's kinda cool...but I'm no dummy. The school isn't hiring anyone to replace any old guys. I consider myself "old" for a coach.
I've already told Admin that I'm done coaching in 3 years. They don't care either way...but I know how it'll go. When it really comes down to finding coaches in 3 years they will be asking me back. It won't work for them.
If the school/district figures things out in less than 3 years I'll reconsider, but I highly doubt.
Again...trying to not thread jack...but I'd love to mentor some young guys. We do have some younger off campus coaches that are trying to learn. But it'll be cool to talk to anyone on campus about football...but they just aren't here.
And BTW - in the late 80s we had 25 some odd coaches in the program...and 22 of them were on campus!!!!!!! 22 to 1. Insane.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on May 30, 2017 14:32:58 GMT -6
tothehouse hypothetically speaking, how would you go about mentoring young guys?
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Post by tothehouse on May 30, 2017 15:13:44 GMT -6
flexbone...I think it would be more about the lay of the land. We can talk X's and O's and I could tell them to go to clinics and visit Coach Huey's site, etc. but it's more about experiences.
I would also factor in what kind of coach they are and want to be. I could recommend them for certain positions within the staff. I was lucky enough to be a JV HC when I was 19. Was I ready? No. But that early experience made me learn a lot of how NOT to do things as well as how to learn them. Just give the young bloods my experience and guidance when they need/want it.
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Post by Party@QB on May 30, 2017 19:27:01 GMT -6
I wouldn't be worried about micromanaging, but at the same time I wouldn't be going bonkers trying to manage everything. If they don't want to be micromanaged, prove yourself and I won't need to. A lot of young guys really WANT the head man to tell them what he wants, not just "we run spread, go coach WRs," or "we're 3-3 stack, go coach corners."
I would like to sit down with each position coach and explain the main goals, points of emphasis, and every day drills I want to see until that coach brings me something better to replace it with. And from the beginning make sure the drills he's wanting to run are things that we'll do in a game.
Always look for teaching opporunities, and these don't have to be, "sit down and let me teach you something." Could be as simple as, "see how that kid stepped opposite of what we say and how he missed his block? That's why we teach kids to step this way." Basically teach him to teach, and to use every possible opportunity to teach.
Before I go way too long:
1. Our offensive or defensive strategy. 2. What needs to be done during off-season workouts with players (helmets only) and explain why these things are so important. 3. What practice needs to accomplish, and why. 4. Your role during the game, and why. 5. Things to take away from that game, and why. 6. At the end of everything we do, think over it and constantly LOOK FOR A BETTER WAY and if something doesn't make sense ask me "WHY?"
Of course as coach A proves he's more than capable, give and allow more, but just because I trust coach A does not mean coach B gets to do the same.
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Post by StraightFlexin on May 31, 2017 9:33:18 GMT -6
Over the past year I have traveled to hear a lot of incredibly coaches speak on topics related to this. They all said they have allowed their coaches to coach. Give them responsibility and ownership of a position or task. I really tried to do this for the fall and started great but then is crumbling. Can't keep coaches since none are teachers. Some districts don't see that as value and is hard to keep any long term consistency that way. It is difficult to develop a coach when if they think they have coached for a season and now they know. I can think back to my first year of coaching with some incredibly experienced guys. Was told to sit, listen, don't ask too many questions and learn. But people do not want to do that anymore, they want the secret facemelter or shortcut. Guys that want to be called coach rather than actually coach
long rant...... sips on whiskey bottle lol
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Post by huddlehut on Jun 1, 2017 11:17:14 GMT -6
I apologize for my ignorance, but I've seen this on several posts... What is a face-melter?
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Post by blb on Jun 1, 2017 11:28:26 GMT -6
I apologize for my ignorance, but I've seen this on several posts... What is a face-melter?
"Face Melter" is THE offense that cannot be defensed-stopped.
You may have to fight just to save the equipment.
In fact you'd be better off if the bus broke down on way to game or forfeiting.
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Post by **** on Jun 1, 2017 13:48:15 GMT -6
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Post by macdiiddy on Jun 2, 2017 6:55:07 GMT -6
I would add to correct/give them advice in private. I am a firm believer that unless the coach is doing something so outrageous or dangerous, you let them go/call for a water break, then correct them when the players are not around. Kids pick up quickly who they should/shouldn't listen to.
Then in the same vein, give them free coaching points to tell the kids. I can recall a few times when I was watching the end of a JV game and see something. I will quietly relay this information to my JV coaches and allow them to speak with a sense of authority and echo's what I want accomplished.
Doing all this earns them more respect from the kids, you are still teaching/correcting, and it makes them feel invested when they can relay the information to the youngins
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 2, 2017 8:35:11 GMT -6
The opportunity to game plan and run a game with freshman/JV teams is invaluable experience. If you have the manpower you can basically turn over the whole squad. Or have them be in charge and you're just a position coach. You have to then resist the urge to tinker, let them make their mistakes and provide advice after practices, and then as little as possible. If you're just puppeteering it won't help.
Brand new coaches can't get better if they don't know what they're doing, so make sure they know what the plan is, and have a practice plan. If I have a book of 15 RB drills and I know today is 1-10 day, and we're running these 12 plays, and I know I have 10 mins of Indy plus another 10 with my backups during specials, I can plan out something. But if you don't give me that kind of framework I'm kind of screwed, and then I don't get better and I feel like an idiot.
Empower yourself by empowering others. Find appropriate tasks for each staff member to do. On one's first week of coaching just inputting the hashes is an ordeal. By week three it's not challenging enough to maintain their interest so add something else. If you wait a whole year to give the new guys more responsibility than they had day one you've stunted the learning curve.
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Post by s73 on Jun 2, 2017 9:47:02 GMT -6
IME,
Developing coaches is CONSIDERABLY easier when you have a coach that wants to be developed.
I don't mean this as a copout. I sincerely feel that those who want to learn whether it be in the classroom or on the field, players and /or coaches, will learn significantly more when they are interested in doing so.
I am very fortunate in that I have some guys on staff interested in bettering themselves and they are willing to meet periodically to make that happen. And.....an added perk to this is when they are really interested in learning more, they tend to do some stuff on their own and bring it back to the table & then I find myself learning from them as well.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jun 2, 2017 10:16:35 GMT -6
Do great assistant coaches an innate ability to be great or can it be developed? Practice at any kind of teaching or tutoring is of some help.
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Post by funkfriss on Jun 7, 2017 11:46:22 GMT -6
IME, Developing coaches is CONSIDERABLY easier when you have a coach that wants to be developed. I don't mean this as a copout. I sincerely feel that those who want to learn whether it be in the classroom or on the field, players and /or coaches, will learn significantly more when they are interested in doing so. I am very fortunate in that I have some guys on staff interested in bettering themselves and they are willing to meet periodically to make that happen. And.....an added perk to this is when they are really interested in learning more, they tend to do some stuff on their own and bring it back to the table & then I find myself learning from them as well. This is very true, kinda like your students isn't it? I have been around too many coaches who think they will teach the game the same way they learned it. That's fine if you had great coaches, but if you didn't then that is a seriously dangerous foundation. I know I didn't play football under great coaches. They were great guys who were good motivators, but Xs and Os, strategy, technique, etc they were seriously lacking. I knew that to some degree at the time and know that even more now. My point is that I knew it. When I started coaching I didn't think I knew everything and had my eyes and ears open as I went to clinics and learned from many more coaches, books, videos, etc. We also struggle to get coaches where I'm at. Ones we get from outside the school have tended to be guys who are clueless to those intangibles (technique, strategy). All they know is plays and alignments. You get snippets of genius like, "You gotta TACKLE him!" or "We need to pound the ball! (when our biggest cat up front is 5'10 180)" or "Run this play....Run this play....Run this play." or "They're killing us running power because we're not in a 5-front!" My past three hires (and working on one more) have 3 things in common. First, they are teachers. Second, they are not incredibly football smart (two never played HS football, three never coached football before). Third, they have been EXTREMELY willing to learn (coming to meetings, watching videos I give, reading articles/books I give, going to clinics). So after all my rambling I return to s73 and say I would rather have guys who want to learn and grow over guys who may have a better reputation as a player or football mind that are stuck in their ways.
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Post by s73 on Jun 7, 2017 23:00:19 GMT -6
IME, Developing coaches is CONSIDERABLY easier when you have a coach that wants to be developed. I don't mean this as a copout. I sincerely feel that those who want to learn whether it be in the classroom or on the field, players and /or coaches, will learn significantly more when they are interested in doing so. I am very fortunate in that I have some guys on staff interested in bettering themselves and they are willing to meet periodically to make that happen. And.....an added perk to this is when they are really interested in learning more, they tend to do some stuff on their own and bring it back to the table & then I find myself learning from them as well. This is very true, kinda like your students isn't it? I have been around too many coaches who think they will teach the game the same way they learned it. That's fine if you had great coaches, but if you didn't then that is a seriously dangerous foundation. I know I didn't play football under great coaches. They were great guys who were good motivators, but Xs and Os, strategy, technique, etc they were seriously lacking. I knew that to some degree at the time and know that even more now. My point is that I knew it. When I started coaching I didn't think I knew everything and had my eyes and ears open as I went to clinics and learned from many more coaches, books, videos, etc. We also struggle to get coaches where I'm at. Ones we get from outside the school have tended to be guys who are clueless to those intangibles (technique, strategy). All they know is plays and alignments. You get snippets of genius like, "You gotta TACKLE him!" or "We need to pound the ball! (when our biggest cat up front is 5'10 180)" or "Run this play....Run this play....Run this play." or "They're killing us running power because we're not in a 5-front!" My past three hires (and working on one more) have 3 things in common. First, they are teachers. Second, they are not incredibly football smart (two never played HS football, three never coached football before). Third, they have been EXTREMELY willing to learn (coming to meetings, watching videos I give, reading articles/books I give, going to clinics). So after all my rambling I return to s73 and say I would rather have guys who want to learn and grow over guys who may have a better reputation as a player or football mind that are stuck in their ways. I completely feel the same way. I will definitely take dudes who are willing to listen regardless of experience. The most experienced rower in the world is no good to the boat if his oar is going a different direction. Had a irritating encounter last weekend. Got invited to a former players graduation. Saw another former player 5 years removed there. His younger brother is a current player of mine. Two way starter on our play off team as a junior. Our senior class was 0-9 as sophs & we made the play offs with them last season. Was very proud of our program. Long story short....this kid coached 2 years of middle school & proceeded to tell me how he wasnt biased at all....but....he felt he had several ideas on how we could better "utilize" his brother. I cut him off immediately & told him flat out that he was irritating me. He apologized & said "I dont want to be that guy coach". I said too late. He was on a conference championship team for us & 2 years of coaching MS already has his head this big? I will definitely take a team player who wants to learn over that garbage. Would never hire him. And that hurts to say about one of my former players but it is what it is I guess. No thoughts of the bigger picture only what is best for his brother who is an above average hs football player. Btw, we are a flexbone team & all his suggestions revolved around implementing his slightly above average receiver brother in the passing game. Meanwhile my QB is a great runner & mediocre passer at best. Give me the team player coach & lets get back to the play offs!
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Jun 8, 2017 1:14:13 GMT -6
I guess simply put, my question is where do you find guys are EXTREMELY willing to learn? Are they molded or premade, you know what I mean?
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Post by tim914790 on Jun 8, 2017 6:00:47 GMT -6
I think mentoring and developing young coaches is crucial but it is harder to find a young guy that is willing to actually pay his dues and put in time with out much role on Friday night. You need to find a guy who has caught the coaching bug and just wants to learn. IMO there are way more 20 year olds thinking they are ready to run the offense or defense then that are ready to do whatever is needed (fill coolers, set up drills, breakdown film). My first 5 years were as an assistant to a JV position coach (essentially an intern) but showed up to everything, asked questions, and watched film with the older guys to learn what I was missing. In the long run I think it has made me a much better coach as far as knowing what needs to be done and willing to do the grunt work.
We have JV coaches that I am not sure whether or not they would coach if we asked them to film the Varsity game for us on Friday nights or go scout.
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Post by s73 on Jun 8, 2017 20:38:47 GMT -6
I guess simply put, my question is where do you find guys are EXTREMELY willing to learn? Are they molded or premade, you know what I mean? IME ? They are Pre-made. Takes some humility and gusto and not everybody has that. I mean, think about the number of guys who are coaching football in todays high school game (or any level for that matter) and then think about how many of them are considered really good for a consistently long time. I mean, I couldn't even guess the percentage of HS football coaches that are considered REALLY good, not even great mind you but good. But I would guess it's not a huge percentage. JMO.
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Post by **** on Jun 9, 2017 6:35:23 GMT -6
I guess simply put, my question is where do you find guys are EXTREMELY willing to learn? Are they molded or premade, you know what I mean? Premade.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 8:42:39 GMT -6
I guess simply put, my question is where do you find guys are EXTREMELY willing to learn? Are they molded or premade, you know what I mean? Guys who are EXTREMELY willing to learn are 99% pre-made - it's all about their character. You can mentor your coaches all you want but if they're not willing to put in the work to develop themselves and do the bitch-work that no-one else is willing to do early in their career you can't really do much about it.
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Post by bluboy on Jun 9, 2017 9:00:32 GMT -6
This is SOOOOOOOO TRUE!!! Our HC goes to great lengths to help all of us get better as coaches: clinics, college visits, meeting with college coaches who stop in to recruit, etc. A couple of guys can never seem to make any of these; there is always an "unexpected issue". I guess there is some truth in "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Jun 9, 2017 22:41:16 GMT -6
I guess simply put, my question is where do you find guys are EXTREMELY willing to learn? Are they molded or premade, you know what I mean? Guys who are EXTREMELY willing to learn are 99% pre-made - it's all about their character. You can mentor your coaches all you want but if they're not willing to put in the work to develop themselves and do the bitch-work that no-one else is willing to do early in their career you can't really do much about it. This was my fear. How do you find coaches like this? Game of chance?
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Post by gccwolverine on Jun 10, 2017 0:10:40 GMT -6
Guys who are EXTREMELY willing to learn are 99% pre-made - it's all about their character. You can mentor your coaches all you want but if they're not willing to put in the work to develop themselves and do the bitch-work that no-one else is willing to do early in their career you can't really do much about it. This was my fear. How do you find coaches like this? Game of chance? Hire guys who have ambition and drive. I'm not a HC but the day I get the opportunity to become one you can be rest assured I am going to hire guys who want to be coordinators and who want to one day be head coaches. They have an internal drive to grow and learn as much as they can.
Hire guys who have ambition and drive. I'm not a HC but the day I get the opportunity to become one you can be rest assured I am going to hire guys who want to be coordinators and who want to one day be head coaches. They have an internal drive to grow and learn as much as they can.
We have a staff of 8 guys. of those 8 we have 3 that are pretty good coaches in terms of scheme, technique, practice organization, game planning, tape breakdown, finding solutions to in game problems, drill development, making sure said drills apply to the scheme and technique and show up on game film etc. etc. etc. The HC / offensive play caller, a defensive assistant (who is new so we actually only had 2 last year), and myself the OL/OC (and I was new last year so in 2015 our HC only had himself). We have a young guy who isn't there yet but will at least take the time to ask questions and will pick up football stuff / think about football outside of just practice and game time. Then we have 4 other guys who are just guys (nice guys) but just guys, their drills don't apply to the schemes, there is little to no technique being taught, film watching is none existent etc. you get the great gems such as, (block some one, catch the ball, tackle him...) no understanding of schematics or in game adjustments. 1 is even our DC. For example, We played 2 high 6 man boxes to 20 personnel and 21 personnel teams all of last year (because that's just what we do and it's easy without having to make changes or adjustments) and we got gutted from day one on. From day one on I subtly attempted to suggest that this cannot continue we have to have the ability to get another man down vs these types of offenses. No change nothing because of a lack of understanding or willingness to study or learn outside of just 1 thing. They are simply content to just be there, collect the extra stipend and go they think football coaching is only from the time practice begins to the time it ends and they put little to no thought to it throughout the rest of their day / life. The reason being is they don't really have a desire to climb hire or go anywhere else or do anything else. Hire guys who do.
Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/77523/developing-coaches?page=1&scrollTo=830914#ixzz4jZtHkSoG
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Jun 10, 2017 1:51:12 GMT -6
gccwolverine I understand where you're coming from. I think the difficult thing is that it isn't as easy as Me: Do you have aspirations to be head coach someday? Applicant: Yes, I'd love to be (whether they do or do not understand what it takes and what the responsibilities of a HC are) Me: Oh wow this guy wants to be a HC some day, he must have drive and ambition! I think the issue is (same as when you hire anyone for a job) you don't get to see what they're really made of until you've hired them and see how they work. In other words, anyone can talk the talk but when it comes to walking...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 6:20:53 GMT -6
Guys who are EXTREMELY willing to learn are 99% pre-made - it's all about their character. You can mentor your coaches all you want but if they're not willing to put in the work to develop themselves and do the bitch-work that no-one else is willing to do early in their career you can't really do much about it. This was my fear. How do you find coaches like this? Game of chance? From my experience it's mostly by chance, but I suppose your resources and contacts might factor into it too. To put the above in context, our coaching staff is made up 100% of volunteers and we mainly recruit graduating players from our programme as coaches because they've been with us for a set time and they've been exposed to our team culture - they know what we expect of them as coaches and we have a set progression schedule for each of them. We currently have 10 coaches on staff and I'd say 4 of them actively take an interest in developing themselves on a regular basis. The other 6 are still capable coaches but don't really spend much time on developing their own knowledge as they have other priorities / interests that take up their time.
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Post by bluboy on Jun 10, 2017 7:21:51 GMT -6
I once worked for a HC who told me that he would not hire guys who did not want to be a HC someday. Now, I understand why. I think the bottom line is do these guys like football or love football. IMHO,the guys who love football are the "gems". They are the guys who want to learn, want to get better, and have drive/ambition. The guys who like football do what they have to do, but never really put both feet into the water. Finding good coaches is difficult because you don't always know what you're getting until you start work. I equate it to not really knowing a person until you live with him.
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Post by aceback76 on Jun 10, 2017 8:03:28 GMT -6
We talk a lot about developing schemes, players, etc. What are you go to points for developing coaches? Do great assistant coaches an innate ability to be great or can it be developed? Thoughts? I've thought about coaching coaches just like I would my players but then I figured they might just become clones of me (which might be a good thing!) I try to avoid the the good ol' "I don't like to be micro-managed", well then my thoughts are "Well what's the alternative then? You do whatever you want with no knowledge of what you're teaching?" It can be developed only IF they have an appetite for the game!
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center
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Post by center on Jun 10, 2017 8:20:12 GMT -6
Alternative thoughts here...head coaches are usually the ones that are in charge of all the development of the staff. But they have so much else to do....
A couple of schools in our area have used a mentor system to help out a new head coach or their staff. They ask or hire an older coach, usually retired, to work with their staff. Not always as an on field coach but instead helping their overall organization and planning. They observe practices and attend games.
The guy/school that I know did this made a big impact on a young head coach and his staff. Stayed with them long enough to help them build confidence and now the coach and staff are competent. Helped build a practice plan, practice schedule, equipment organization, and philosophy on off field stuff.
Other school has a retired HOF coach that is a volunteer that coaches a position and is a sounding board for the HC. He does not coordinate anything and is more of an advisor in game planning. He is a master in teaching and relating to players and is passing that on.
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