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Post by larrymoe on May 3, 2017 19:29:11 GMT -6
This is in our QB Manual: CHARACTER: "Character is what you do when nobody is watching" 1. You (QB) are held to a higher responsibility to do right than anyone else. 2. Are you coachable? 3. Do you have honesty and integrity to do the right thing, always, regardless of the outcome (be willing to be wrong)? 4. Do you have Faith? ---It puts things into perspective. "Even the best leaders need someone to lead them. Someone who they can tap into as their power source, sense of strength and direction" I read your posts and wonder what you've got to be like to have a conversation with.
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Post by fantom on May 3, 2017 19:37:39 GMT -6
That probably looks great on a t-shirt but what does it really mean? And what's the difference between an average attitude and a great attitude? How do you quantify something like attitude? For me, a kid with a "great" attitude is one who: - Works hard in the weightroom and/or plays multiple sports
- Is liked by teammates and coaches
- Plays at the position he is needed, not necessarily at the position he wants
- Shows up on time and doesn't miss practice
- Doesn't flirt with the margins of the eligibility every week
- Doesn't make you think about him every time you hear police sirens
And if the kid can play a little, that is obviously a huge bonus!
Wonder why so much space on this forum is devoted to character and culture if all we're talking is t-shirt slogans. Apparently, a lot of coaches are wasting a lot of time trying to teach character... Should just look to develop athletic skills, I suppose. Is it necessary to quantify attitude? Don't you just know a good one or a bad one when you see it? Well, give us your definition.
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Post by fantom on May 3, 2017 19:47:28 GMT -6
Guys, Trying to completely change around the culture of our program. Have the best athletes not buying in, while the high character kids (not very good athletically) are totally bought in and busting their behinds off. Question; can you win with high character kids? What are examples of them not buying in?
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Post by aceback76 on May 3, 2017 19:54:33 GMT -6
This is in our QB Manual: CHARACTER: "Character is what you do when nobody is watching" 1. You (QB) are held to a higher responsibility to do right than anyone else. 2. Are you coachable? 3. Do you have honesty and integrity to do the right thing, always, regardless of the outcome (be willing to be wrong)? 4. Do you have Faith? ---It puts things into perspective. "Even the best leaders need someone to lead them. Someone who they can tap into as their power source, sense of strength and direction" I read your posts and wonder what you've got to be like to have a conversation with. I'm sure it all would depend on your point of view! PM me your phone number with best time to call, & I'll call you!!!
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Post by lions23 on May 3, 2017 21:36:51 GMT -6
Sometimes the wins take care of themselves when you have high character guys. Invest into those who are investing in you. Build and develop the character and then develop the skills and fundamentals. Kids will see the culture change and want to be apart of something special. Those who are not "falling in line" or "buying in" will feel like an outsider and leave or be forced to leave. Trust the process! I agree. You have to teach your character expectations and tools to develop character just like anything else. If you expect them just to have it then you'll get what they give you. Behavioral skills might be more lacking then technical skills with some kids. Focus on the behavior skills there. Some kids are going to need more technical skills. Good coaches and teachers can differentiate. If you do it well you can help kids improve behavior and technical skills.
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Post by larrymoe on May 4, 2017 6:06:57 GMT -6
I read your posts and wonder what you've got to be like to have a conversation with. I'm sure it all would depend on your point of view! PM me your phone number with best time to call, & I'll call you!!! I'm good. Send me all your manuals and quote books and I'll already have 80% of the conversation. Make sure it's heavy on Bear Bryant.
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Post by aceback76 on May 4, 2017 6:53:29 GMT -6
I'm sure it all would depend on your point of view! PM me your phone number with best time to call, & I'll call you!!! I'm good. Send me all your manuals and quote books and I'll already have 80% of the conversation. Make sure it's heavy on Bear Bryant. I detect a note of jealousy. To show your good faith, first tell me who the h*** YOU are. Then send me something YOU take pride in (perhaps YOU have manuals & quotes worthy of sharing). Do you actually COACH football (judging by the photo, I thought you might be a comedian)?
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Post by CS on May 4, 2017 8:19:27 GMT -6
I'm good. Send me all your manuals and quote books and I'll already have 80% of the conversation. Make sure it's heavy on Bear Bryant. I detect a note of jealousy. To show your good faith, first tell me who the h*** YOU are. Then send me something YOU take pride in (perhaps YOU have manuals & quotes worthy of sharing). Do you actually COACH football (judging by the photo, I thought you might be a comedian)?
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Post by larrymoe on May 4, 2017 8:51:11 GMT -6
I'm good. Send me all your manuals and quote books and I'll already have 80% of the conversation. Make sure it's heavy on Bear Bryant. I detect a note of jealousy. To show your good faith, first tell me who the h*** YOU are. Then send me something YOU take pride in (perhaps YOU have manuals & quotes worthy of sharing). Do you actually COACH football (judging by the photo, I thought you might be a comedian)? I actually coach a lot of football. I just don't feel the need to tell everyone how they should do things because it's the way I do them or a guy that died 40 years ago did them. In every single post I post. I mean, God bless you. Post whatever you want, but if I wanted to hear someone parrot stuff, I'd ask a parrot.
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Post by blb on May 4, 2017 9:54:02 GMT -6
I detect a note of jealousy. To show your good faith, first tell me who the h*** YOU are. Then send me something YOU take pride in (perhaps YOU have manuals & quotes worthy of sharing). Do you actually COACH football (judging by the photo, I thought you might be a comedian)? I actually coach a lot of football. I just don't feel the need to tell everyone how they should do things because it's the way I do them or a guy that died 40 years ago did them. In every single post I post. I mean, God bless you. Post whatever you want, but if I wanted to hear someone parrot stuff, I'd ask a parrot. aceback76
Ping...
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Post by aceback76 on May 4, 2017 11:42:57 GMT -6
I actually coach a lot of football. I just don't feel the need to tell everyone how they should do things because it's the way I do them or a guy that died 40 years ago did them. In every single post I post. I mean, God bless you. Post whatever you want, but if I wanted to hear someone parrot stuff, I'd ask a parrot. aceback76
Ping...
The "comedians" (Larry, Moe, Curly, & Smylie) have joined in to ruin another good discussion, and try to get everyone OFF THE TOPIC. You post what you want, & I'll post what I want (which is none of YOUR business since no one MAKES you read it)!!! Stay on the subject, please!
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Post by CS on May 4, 2017 11:56:41 GMT -6
The "comedians" (Larry, Moe, Curly, & Smylie) have joined in to ruin another good discussion, and try to get everyone OFF THE TOPIC. You post what you want, & I'll post what I want (which is none of YOUR business since no one MAKES you read it)!!! Stay on the subject, please! You spelled my name wrong...
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Post by aceback76 on May 4, 2017 12:04:53 GMT -6
The "comedians" (Larry, Moe, Curly, & Smylie) have joined in to ruin another good discussion, and try to get everyone OFF THE TOPIC. You post what you want, & I'll post what I want (which is none of YOUR business since no one MAKES you read it)!!! Stay on the subject, please! You spelled my name wrong... So?
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Post by lions23 on May 4, 2017 12:19:33 GMT -6
Wonder why so much space on this forum is devoted to character and culture if all we're talking is t-shirt slogans. Apparently, a lot of coaches are wasting a lot of time trying to teach character... Should just look to develop athletic skills, I suppose. Is it necessary to quantify attitude? Don't you just know a good one or a bad one when you see it?I have already described what I feel is "great attitude". A kid who shows up on time, is reliable, works hard, and doesn't cause headaches has a great attitude as far as I am concerned. The problem is, for a lot of coaches, that is simply not enough. Unless a kid completely buys in 100% and drinks the coach's Kool-Aid, that kid runs the risk of getting labeled as having a "bad attitude". Kid can't make all the football summer activities because he is also playing baseball or basketball? That kid has a bad attitude. Kid can't make it to a weekend passing tournament because his parents had the audacity to schedule a vacation? That kid has a bad attitude. Kid is tired and sluggish on Wednesday after a 3.5-hour, Week 7 practice on a Tuesday night? That kid has a bad attitude. So, this discussion isn't really about "attitude". Instead, it is about an expectation communicated by many coaches that sends the message that if football isn't as important to the kid as it is to the coach, then that kid obviously has a "bad attitude". Delta-Yes! Huddle Hut-It doesn't ever matter what you know. It matters what the kids know. If you don't communicate those expectations then you can't hold them accountable for not reaching those expectations. If you try holding them accountable for things you don't communicate you are going to have difficulty. Could you imagine your principal holding you accountable for something that wasn't outlined in your contract, at a meeting, or clearly defined in your evaluation process? Could you imagine your evaluator saying you are performing below expectations? You respond-what expectations? Evaluator responds-I just know it when I see it." Evaluators and coaches are there to teach growth. How can you grow and improve towards a target that does not exist? Yes you must define your expectations and if a certain type of attitude is desired then you must define the terms.
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Post by larrymoe on May 4, 2017 12:23:10 GMT -6
The "comedians" (Larry, Moe, Curly, & Smylie) have joined in to ruin another good discussion, and try to get everyone OFF THE TOPIC. You post what you want, & I'll post what I want (which is none of YOUR business since no one MAKES you read it)!!! Stay on the subject, please! Translation- Darrell Royal didn't have any thoughts on internet fights and it didn't say anything about them in the left inside banshee's manual either. PS- If you knew my name, my screen name and picture have nothing to do with comedians.
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Post by aceback76 on May 4, 2017 12:53:44 GMT -6
The "comedians" (Larry, Moe, Curly, & Smylie) have joined in to ruin another good discussion, and try to get everyone OFF THE TOPIC. You post what you want, & I'll post what I want (which is none of YOUR business since no one MAKES you read it)!!! Stay on the subject, please! Translation- Darrell Royal didn't have any thoughts on internet fights and it didn't say anything about them in the left inside banshee's manual either. PS- If you knew my name, my screen name and picture have nothing to do with comedians. The TOPIC is "Win With Character"!
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Post by larrymoe on May 4, 2017 13:06:42 GMT -6
If you ever had a discussion with someone rather than spouting quotes and manual pieces at them I'd be more than happy, but...
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Post by aceback76 on May 4, 2017 13:08:19 GMT -6
If you ever had a discussion with someone rather than spouting quotes and manual pieces at them I'd be more than happy, but... The TOPIC is "Win With Character"!
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Post by huddlehut on May 4, 2017 13:24:06 GMT -6
Wonder why so much space on this forum is devoted to character and culture if all we're talking is t-shirt slogans. Apparently, a lot of coaches are wasting a lot of time trying to teach character... Should just look to develop athletic skills, I suppose. Is it necessary to quantify attitude? Don't you just know a good one or a bad one when you see it? Well, give us your definition. My definition of what? A good attitude? You have to DEFINE good attitude to know one? I think not. I can recognize a kid with a good attitude without his actions fitting into a mold. I can also recognize a crappy attitude without looking up the definition.
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Post by blb on May 4, 2017 14:07:38 GMT -6
Well, give us your definition. My definition of what? A good attitude? You have to DEFINE good attitude to know one? I think not. I can recognize a kid with a good attitude without his actions fitting into a mold. I can also recognize a crappy attitude without looking up the definition.
No doubt YOU can, but before you tell 14-18 year old boys they're not playing-hold them accountable because they have a "crappy attitude" you have to define it for THEM.
Some of them may have failed that Mind Reading class.
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Post by 19delta on May 4, 2017 14:36:17 GMT -6
Well, give us your definition. My definition of what? A good attitude? You have to DEFINE good attitude to know one? I think not. I can recognize a kid with a good attitude without his actions fitting into a mold. I can also recognize a crappy attitude without looking up the definition. That is way too subjective. If you can't define what it means to have a "crappy attitude", how are the kids supposed to know? And, by not defining it, that allows you to keep changing whatever subjective definition you have for it when it suits your purposes to do so. That's not fair to the kids. Again...this is NOT about "attitude". What it is really about is the coach's expectations for players. And there are coaches, many of them, who have insanely high expectations that are almost impossible for kids to meet. And when the kids can't meet those ridiculous expectations, the kid is labeled as having a "crappy attitude".
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Post by Coach Vint on May 4, 2017 15:07:23 GMT -6
We define attitude as the mindset with which you do things, but we talk about behavior more than we ever have. When we talk about character we talk about what you do a lot more than what you intend. Your behaviors define who you are.
Something that has been valuable everywhere I have been has been sitting down with each player and going over their academic, athletic, and career goals. I have a form they fill out. They may not know what they want to do for a career, but every one of them has some idea of what they want in the classroom and on the field. I have yet to have a kid tell me he wants to fail in the classroom. We spend about 10 minutes with each kid discussing this. We also list what it will take to reach their goals, and what areas are holding them back. They get a copy and I get a copy. When they miss a workout, fail a test, or cut a class, I remind them of their goal, and ask them if the decision they made will help them reach their goal. I then ask if we need to change the goal, or if they are going to make better decisions.
When I started this document I had a football goal, academic goal, and life goal. We then listed their 5 best qualities and 3 things they needed to improve on. I have now added steps to achieve their goals, and a junk box. The junk box is all the crap that holds them back. It is bigger than just areas to improve. Once we identify their junk box, we can help them overcome. Each year I am more and more amazed at some of the crap our kids deal with away from the field house.
This document helped me to better get to know each player, and learn more about what they want. Once I know what they want, I ask them if I have their permission to help them get there. I tell them there will be days they will not like me. But I am not here to be their buddy or friend. I am here to be their coach, and they can trust me to help them to be their best. I stole this from a few different coaches, and have adjusted it and adapted it to fit each circumstance. If you have guys that are not buying in, this might be a start. Once kids know I care about their success as a man and not just a ball player, they are more receptive to coaching. It will not be overnight, and there may be some that never get it. But if you don't do anything different be prepared for more of the same.
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Post by CS on May 4, 2017 15:18:49 GMT -6
We define attitude as the mindset with which you do things, but we talk about behavior more than we ever have. When we talk about character we talk about what you do a lot more than what you intend. Your behaviors define who you are. Something that has been valuable everywhere I have been has been sitting down with each player and going over their academic, athletic, and career goals. I have a form they fill out. They may not know what they want to do for a career, but every one of them has some idea of what they want in the classroom and on the field. I have yet to have a kid tell me he wants to fail in the classroom. We spend about 10 minutes with each kid discussing this. We also list what it will take to reach their goals, and what areas are holding them back. They get a copy and I get a copy. When they miss a workout, fail a test, or cut a class, I remind them of their goal, and ask them if the decision they made will help them reach their goal. I then ask if we need to change the goal, or if they are going to make better decisions. When I started this document I had a football goal, academic goal, and life goal. We then listed their 5 best qualities and 3 things they needed to improve on. I have now added steps to achieve their goals, and a junk box. The junk box is all the crap that holds them back. It is bigger than just areas to improve. Once we identify their junk box, we can help them overcome. Each year I am more and more amazed at some of the crap our kids deal with away from the field house. This document helped me to better get to know each player, and learn more about what they want. Once I know what they want, I ask them if I have their permission to help them get there. I tell them there will be days they will not like me. But I am not here to be their buddy or friend. I am here to be their coach, and they can trust me to help them to be their best. I stole this from a few different coaches, and have adjusted it and adapted it to fit each circumstance. If you have guys that are not buying in, this might be a start. Once kids know I care about their success as a man and not just a ball player, they are more receptive to coaching. It will not be overnight, and there may be some that never get it. But if you don't do anything different be prepared for more of the same. Do you mind sharing the document?
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Post by fantom on May 4, 2017 16:11:06 GMT -6
Well, give us your definition. My definition of what? A good attitude? You have to DEFINE good attitude to know one? I think not. I can recognize a kid with a good attitude without his actions fitting into a mold. I can also recognize a crappy attitude without looking up the definition. Truly great attitudes are easy to define. Truly crappy attitudes are easy to define. The vast majority of kids fall somewhere in between.
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Post by huddlehut on May 4, 2017 22:26:59 GMT -6
The premise of the thread is whether or not you can either with character-type kids. Since I was responding to a bunch of coaches I didn't feel that I need to define a good or bad attitude to you all. Figured that you all pretty well understood the difference. Maybe not.
Do we explain the difference between a good and bad attitude to our kids? Of course.
I'm beginning to think that some of you just enjoy feeding your ego by reading your own posts.
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Post by fantom on May 5, 2017 7:00:05 GMT -6
The premise of the thread is whether or not you can either with character-type kids. Since I was responding to a bunch of coaches I didn't feel that I need to define a good or bad attitude to you all. Figured that you all pretty well understood the difference. Maybe not. Do we explain the difference between a good and bad attitude to our kids? Of course. I'm beginning to think that some of you just enjoy feeding your ego by reading your own posts. Saying "I like good attitudes" adds nothing to the discussion.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 5, 2017 8:05:01 GMT -6
As with any subjective criteria, the prism that you evaluate that particular attribute will be different for each individual evaluator.
I'm sure all of us can evaluate our specific player position and grade an athlete's performance or ability A/B/C/D/F, acceptable/unacceptable, good/average/poor, etc.... However the criteria will be different that YOU use to assign that grade as opposed to mine. For example the criteria for a GOOD Flex Bone QB is going to be very different from a GOOD Air Raid QB.
The same is going to be true for attitude/character/coachablity/etc..... You, or your HC, should have guidelines as to what that is going to look like and what the action steps will be to correct it, just like you would with your position player. I may not like what my HC allows with the turds or I might think you're an imbecile for accepting certain behaviors, but in both cases either it's not my decision to make or it's not my kid to coach.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing what good attitude/character is like or wanting to learn how model it to the kids. But don't think I'm a lax coach because my tardy policy maybe looser than yours. I have kids that walked 1.5 miles to get to our morning mat drills last week at 6:00 AM . I've had a kid that road his bicycle 8 miles one way just to get to summer practice.
Now to throw in my $.02 worth. Yeah,I know good/bad when I see it. But it is just that: what I expect/desire. I try to praise the good, and correct the bad. I try to model positive reactions to negative situations, but I also am frank with them when I fail to do so. Some kids grow up having good character modeled to them; some don't. For those that have no clue what good character is, we work with them. We tell everyone what is the minimal expectations, but also work on the 'above and beyond'. We do have consequences for them and try to show them how to move from bad to good. What we want to see out of them is just that MOVING from bad to good.
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Post by Coach Vint on May 5, 2017 8:43:47 GMT -6
We define attitude as the mindset with which you do things, but we talk about behavior more than we ever have. When we talk about character we talk about what you do a lot more than what you intend. Your behaviors define who you are. Something that has been valuable everywhere I have been has been sitting down with each player and going over their academic, athletic, and career goals. I have a form they fill out. They may not know what they want to do for a career, but every one of them has some idea of what they want in the classroom and on the field. I have yet to have a kid tell me he wants to fail in the classroom. We spend about 10 minutes with each kid discussing this. We also list what it will take to reach their goals, and what areas are holding them back. They get a copy and I get a copy. When they miss a workout, fail a test, or cut a class, I remind them of their goal, and ask them if the decision they made will help them reach their goal. I then ask if we need to change the goal, or if they are going to make better decisions. When I started this document I had a football goal, academic goal, and life goal. We then listed their 5 best qualities and 3 things they needed to improve on. I have now added steps to achieve their goals, and a junk box. The junk box is all the crap that holds them back. It is bigger than just areas to improve. Once we identify their junk box, we can help them overcome. Each year I am more and more amazed at some of the crap our kids deal with away from the field house. This document helped me to better get to know each player, and learn more about what they want. Once I know what they want, I ask them if I have their permission to help them get there. I tell them there will be days they will not like me. But I am not here to be their buddy or friend. I am here to be their coach, and they can trust me to help them to be their best. I stole this from a few different coaches, and have adjusted it and adapted it to fit each circumstance. If you have guys that are not buying in, this might be a start. Once kids know I care about their success as a man and not just a ball player, they are more receptive to coaching. It will not be overnight, and there may be some that never get it. But if you don't do anything different be prepared for more of the same. Do you mind sharing the document? Here is a link to the document. I stole every part of this, but I don't think that makes me a bad person. After hearing Hugh Freeze speak at a clinic a few years ago I adapted it to fit his format. drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLvZUVKp_gITmxKNGh1V3NlN0U/view?usp=sharing
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Jun 29, 2017 21:52:31 GMT -6
I guess I just have to ask when you say that the best athletes aren't buying in, do you mean that you've already started talking a lot about character and trying to teach them character and they still won't do it, or you are noticing as soon as you get there that the best athletes don't like to work? I mean to say, without throwing out an accusation, have you tried teaching character to the kids who aren't of high character yet? Just ask because the answer changes my feelings about how to deal with the situation.
I'd say what someone else said, you can win with high character kids, but they have to have talent. I will say that you can win more with a kid who has character versus one that doesn't if they are exactly the same type of athlete, especially in high school. So much of what makes you successful is being this low or at that angle or having your eyes here, etc. and I'm thinking a kid with good character would have the discipline and the team mindset to do his job to the best of his ability rather than being selfish and doing his own thing.
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