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Post by fantom on Apr 29, 2017 18:38:44 GMT -6
Could be wing t. I was joking btw. Since there is one wr, he's probably run heavy. I would play the guy that will block. We're typically 21 personnel, sometimes 22. We have a STUD receiver though who is our #1 guy at the X spot. The competition between these 2 kids is for the starting Z. Obviously one kid will back up both spots, but I just can't stand uncoachable kids Nobody does and with luck maybe you won't have to play one. Maybe #1 will un-douche or #2 will win the job outright. However, best player (not necessarily best athlete) plays. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If #1 is clearly the best player then that's just how it is. I've been involved in organized athletics since 1967 and I've never played on or coached a team where I liked every guy on it. Some years there weren't anybody who I HATED but sometimes there were.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 29, 2017 20:31:56 GMT -6
We're typically 21 personnel, sometimes 22. We have a STUD receiver though who is our #1 guy at the X spot. The competition between these 2 kids is for the starting Z. Obviously one kid will back up both spots, but I just can't stand uncoachable kids Nobody does and with luck maybe you won't have to play one. Maybe #1 will un-douche or #2 will win the job outright. However, best player (not necessarily best athlete) plays. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If #1 is clearly the best player then that's just how it is. I've been involved in organized athletics since 1967 and I've never played on or coached a team where I liked every guy on it. Some years there weren't anybody who I HATED but sometimes there were. I think the highlighted portion above is important. Don't fall in love with #1's potential, and work your butt of to make #2 the best football player. Even if he doesn't have the same potential as #1, it probably isn't going to be hard to get him to be a better football player than an unmotivated, uncoachable, selfish #1.
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Post by fantom on Apr 29, 2017 20:36:38 GMT -6
Nobody does and with luck maybe you won't have to play one. Maybe #1 will un-douche or #2 will win the job outright. However, best player (not necessarily best athlete) plays. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If #1 is clearly the best player then that's just how it is. I've been involved in organized athletics since 1967 and I've never played on or coached a team where I liked every guy on it. Some years there weren't anybody who I HATED but sometimes there were. I think the highlighted portion above is important. Don't fall in love with #1's potential, and work your butt of to make #2 the best football player. Even if he doesn't have the same potential as #1, it probably isn't going to be hard to get him to be a better football player than an unmotivated, uncoachable, selfish #1. Sure, is that's what #1 is instead of an immature sophomore who hasn't figured it out yet.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 29, 2017 21:07:30 GMT -6
I think the highlighted portion above is important. Don't fall in love with #1's potential, and work your butt of to make #2 the best football player. Even if he doesn't have the same potential as #1, it probably isn't going to be hard to get him to be a better football player than an unmotivated, uncoachable, selfish #1. Sure, is that's what #1 is instead of an immature sophomore who hasn't figured it out yet. I agree. Best scenario is both are developed into motivated, hard working, best they can be football players.
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Post by joe83843 on Apr 30, 2017 21:39:50 GMT -6
What message do you want the rest of the team to get out of this? I'm going to get opinionated here, but this question tells you all you need to know. I'm sure your kids probably know kid 1 is a certifiable PITA, and all of them have probably noticed kid 2 busts his butt in the weight room and is coachable. So what kind of a message do you want to send to the ENTIRE TEAM?? Make it clear to them that if you bust your butt in the weight room and are coachable you get playing time, and if you're a PITA that doesn't take coaching you'll get benched no matter how athletic you are. That position might hurt a little in the short term, but the team as a whole will reap more than enough benefit to make up for it. Besides, if kid 2 keeps his attitude and work ethic and isn't halfway decent by the playoffs, you'll know your real problem is the WR coach and not kid 1 or kid 2.
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Post by fantom on Apr 30, 2017 21:45:18 GMT -6
What message do you want the rest of the team to get out of this? I'm going to get opinionated here, but this question tells you all you need to know. I'm sure your kids probably know kid 1 is a certifiable PITA, and all of them have probably noticed kid 2 busts his butt in the weight room and is coachable. So what kind of a message do you want to send to the ENTIRE TEAM?? But it also may become clear to them that #1 is a lot better and gives them a better chance to win.
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Post by joe83843 on May 1, 2017 6:52:30 GMT -6
I'm going to get opinionated here, but this question tells you all you need to know. I'm sure your kids probably know kid 1 is a certifiable PITA, and all of them have probably noticed kid 2 busts his butt in the weight room and is coachable. So what kind of a message do you want to send to the ENTIRE TEAM?? But it also may become clear to them that #1 is a lot better and gives them a better chance to win. True. I just assumed that if the talent gap were that massive, the answer would be obvious to everybody (players and coaches) and he wouldn't have asked us.
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Post by funkfriss on May 1, 2017 7:53:53 GMT -6
We're typically 21 personnel, sometimes 22. We have a STUD receiver though who is our #1 guy at the X spot. The competition between these 2 kids is for the starting Z. Obviously one kid will back up both spots, but I just can't stand uncoachable kids Nobody does and with luck maybe you won't have to play one. Maybe #1 will un-douche or #2 will win the job outright. However, best player (not necessarily best athlete) plays. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If #1 is clearly the best player then that's just how it is. I've been involved in organized athletics since 1967 and I've never played on or coached a team where I liked every guy on it. Some years there weren't anybody who I HATED but sometimes there were. "Maybe #1 will un-douche." - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I've been around a while (not since '67, I'll admit) and to me, this seems like a simple answer. If you go with #2, how will the rest of the team react? If everything runs smoothly like nothing happened, you know you made the right decision. If something is "off" or kids are giving the {censored}-eyed "WTF" look, you know it's not the right decision. Kids care about effort, but not as much as you do. They care more about winning, and generally, they have a good idea who can help them win.
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Post by fantom on May 1, 2017 8:05:19 GMT -6
Nobody does and with luck maybe you won't have to play one. Maybe #1 will un-douche or #2 will win the job outright. However, best player (not necessarily best athlete) plays. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If #1 is clearly the best player then that's just how it is. I've been involved in organized athletics since 1967 and I've never played on or coached a team where I liked every guy on it. Some years there weren't anybody who I HATED but sometimes there were. "Maybe #1 will un-douche." - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I've been around a while (not since '67, I'll admit) and to me, this seems like a simple answer. If you go with #2, how will the rest of the team react? If everything runs smoothly like nothing happened, you know you made the right decision. If something is "off" or kids are giving the {censored}-eyed "WTF" look, you know it's not the right decision. Kids care about effort, but not as much as you do. They care more about winning, and generally, they have a good idea who can help them win. Something that I'm curious about is whether all of the coaches on the OP's staff feel the same way about both kids.
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Post by BrendanQB on May 1, 2017 11:08:32 GMT -6
"Maybe #1 will un-douche." - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I've been around a while (not since '67, I'll admit) and to me, this seems like a simple answer. If you go with #2, how will the rest of the team react? If everything runs smoothly like nothing happened, you know you made the right decision. If something is "off" or kids are giving the {censored}-eyed "WTF" look, you know it's not the right decision. Kids care about effort, but not as much as you do. They care more about winning, and generally, they have a good idea who can help them win. Something that I'm curious about is whether all of the coaches on the OP's staff feel the same way about both kids. They do. We've all agreed that kid 1 needs to mature a bunch before he's a real contributor to our offense. But our HC is very hands off about the whole thing. He isn't the type to pull kid 1 off to the side and say hey you need to change. He's more the type to just let the kid be, which I don't agree with at all
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Post by fantom on May 1, 2017 11:18:39 GMT -6
Something that I'm curious about is whether all of the coaches on the OP's staff feel the same way about both kids. They do. We've all agreed that kid 1 needs to mature a bunch before he's a real contributor to our offense. But our HC is very hands off about the whole thing. He isn't the type to pull kid 1 off to the side and say hey you need to change. He's more the type to just let the kid be, which I don't agree with at all Then his position coach should do it.
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Post by coachcb on May 1, 2017 11:59:23 GMT -6
1. Start off the year with #1 lower on the depth chart, maybe 2nd or 3rd... Make him work and be coachable to get that starting spot. Inevitably, he'll ask why and you can tell him that he might be a good athlete but his attitude is chit and you won't tolerate it. Just drop him on the depth chart every time he is being uncoachable.
I'll take a less talented kid that is coachable over an athletic kid with an attitude, any day of the week.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 2, 2017 12:47:55 GMT -6
Dealing with 'unpleasant' players
Yeah, we've all had those get under our skin. We've had kids that we just love.... as kids.
Don't we, as coaches, tell kids all the time when they complain about a class/teacher, "You don't have to like the class/teacher, but you still need get to go in there and get the work done"
Isn't that applicable to coaching kids as well?
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Post by coachcb on May 3, 2017 9:10:04 GMT -6
Dealing with 'unpleasant' players Yeah, we've all had those get under our skin. We've had kids that we just love.... as kids. Don't we, as coaches, tell kids all the time when they complain about a class/teacher, "You don't have to like the class/teacher, but you still need get to go in there and get the work done" Isn't that applicable to coaching kids as well? I agree with you but it all depends on the impact those unpleasant kids are having on a program. We boot a kid if he is being a PITA in the classroom and disrupting what we're trying to teach. Most of us hold that same standard in football. A kid won't play for us for very long if he is unpleasant enough to be labeled a "cancer".
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Post by lions23 on May 3, 2017 9:36:07 GMT -6
From what I have read from the OP Kid#1 is a PITA because he isn't getting the technical applications right.
If he isn't getting the technical skills right then I would try a different approach in teaching them to him. Talking isn't probably enough. Has he seen film? Has he been shown what is expected? Has he been able to see someone on film or practice do it to your standards?
He is robotic...maybe he just needs more reps. Maybe it needs to be taught different. Is perfection right now getting in the way of pretty good right, but working towards great later?
The reality is that we have to outlast behaviors that we don't like and be the problem solvers. Unless I missed one of the other comments your beef is that he is robotic and he doesn't take constructive criticism well. You don't have to change your standards, but maybe you can change your approach. Show it to him on film. Make sure he knows that he is using his hands correctly, but he needs to work on X. He probably goes hard in his opinion. He catches all of the balls while player 2 has bad hands.
He is at practice and team events? He participates?
I had a player like this a few years ago. He was a very good athlete and ball player. He was a transfer kid and I didn't teach him all of the way up. I didn't like the way he practiced. A little robotical, slow processing, and seemed to jog through everything. He didn't play at the speed I wanted.
After yelling at him one day he asked me what the problem was. I told him those things above. He didn't agree. I said lets watch the practice film together. As soon as he saw it. He said-You think I'm slow. I responded-Real slow.
We never had an issue again. He was all conference and played college football. Point is that I can't change his behavior only change mine. When I showed him and changed my approach things got better.
I understand that there is a line with the team and we have to hold it. I'm assuming from what I read this isn't really a line that needs to be held. Your trying to get a good from better than what you have to great.
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Post by fshamrock on May 3, 2017 10:48:41 GMT -6
You guys figure this one out let me know, it's as old as cats vs dogs. Ask 100 coaches and they'd be pretty much split down the middle 50/50. I know one thing, at the end of just about every season, I've looked back on all the a-holes that we had to baby along all year to get them to the game, and asked myself "would our record have been any different if that a-hole had not been on the team?" Most of the time the answer is no. Your prototypical a-hole will vanish in big games anyway when you really need all that "talent". Of course that's easy to say looking backward and a whole lot tougher when your see them do those special things that can't be coached early in the year. We had a "stud" miss a day of two a days to get his hair cut. When the HC called his mom he got screamed at about how coaches don't dictate to her baby when he can get his hair cut and when he can't. We allowed that dirtbag to stay on the team all year, he crushed all of the bad teams we would have beaten anyway, got himself thrown out in the 4th quarter of the biggest game of the year for throwing a punch and extended the opponents drive into field goal range....we lose
pick your poison
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Post by coachfrankc on May 11, 2017 6:06:12 GMT -6
I learned this in a coaching certification class a few years back. Do you take the kid who has the 85 talent but only gives you 78 of it, or do you take the kid who has 72 talent but gives you 76 of it.. I think you take #2 every time, explain to #1 why you did and it can be a weekly battle. But if #2 is in the weight room every day and working his butt off then he needs to get on the field.
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Post by BrendanQB on May 11, 2017 15:20:28 GMT -6
You guys figure this one out let me know, it's as old as cats vs dogs. Ask 100 coaches and they'd be pretty much split down the middle 50/50. I know one thing, at the end of just about every season, I've looked back on all the a-holes that we had to baby along all year to get them to the game, and asked myself "would our record have been any different if that a-hole had not been on the team?" Most of the time the answer is no. Your prototypical a-hole will vanish in big games anyway when you really need all that "talent". Of course that's easy to say looking backward and a whole lot tougher when your see them do those special things that can't be coached early in the year. We had a "stud" miss a day of two a days to get his hair cut. When the HC called his mom he got screamed at about how coaches don't dictate to her baby when he can get his hair cut and when he can't. We allowed that dirtbag to stay on the team all year, he crushed all of the bad teams we would have beaten anyway, got himself thrown out in the 4th quarter of the biggest game of the year for throwing a punch and extended the opponents drive into field goal range....we lose pick your poison The way I'm reading this is no matter which kid you choose, your record will be the same. So would you rather deal with an a-hole with a parent that yells at you and go 6-4? Or would you rather deal with a good kid who works hard and go 6-4? Simple decision in my eyes
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