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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 28, 2017 12:12:59 GMT -6
Wondering which kid you'd go with in a situation like this:
kid 1: Starting point guard of the basketball team, has some of the best hands and ball skills I've seen. Can be a big contributor as a WR for us. Problem is, he isn't a great route runner. Bigger problem is that he doesn't see it and won't take constructive criticism. Even without improved route running he might contribute more than kid 2
kid 2: Undersized, not the best hands, not the best route runner. May be able to contribute more than kid 1 in the long term, but somewhat of a liability at the moment. Works harder than anyone else in the weight room and is always looking for constructive criticism to improve his game.
The easy answer is to try to talk to kid 1 and make him more coachable, but he's a really stubborn one and I've had many conversations with him already and gotten nowhere.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Apr 28, 2017 12:24:14 GMT -6
Who is younger?
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Post by Defcord on Apr 28, 2017 12:33:56 GMT -6
Can you rotate them both? If I have two kids that can make similar contributions I put them on a series by series rotation. Or maybe even a 2 to 1 series rotation.
This has had a couple benefits for me. First, both kids know they are going to play so usually they will practice more effectively. Second if there is ever an injury your remaining guy has game time experience. Also it creates competition and accountability because both guys know you have another option.
If I had to choose one, I would go with kid #2. I want to roll with guy that works to maximize his ability and accomplish team goals.
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 28, 2017 12:34:28 GMT -6
Same age. Both will be juniors this coming season. |
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Post by realdawg on Apr 28, 2017 12:55:18 GMT -6
Seems like kid 1 is better than kid two except he doesnt work as hard. To me as long as he does enough of what is asked of him to be on the team, than the best one plays.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Apr 28, 2017 13:17:39 GMT -6
I would have a rotation, and a grading scale for both of them. Let them know what is expected, and adjust PT based on the grades. That has helped me in the past.
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scuba16
Sophomore Member
Posts: 201
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Post by scuba16 on Apr 28, 2017 13:21:50 GMT -6
We've done it forever. I'm in a Semi-inner city school, 17yrs. 15 yrs as the Asst, 2 years HC. Always chasing, trying to get the basketball kids to play.
Last 2 yrs of me being the head coach I've gone away from the basketball kids. 1. they catch and run but they pussyfoot around the field and its hard to get them to block, 2. they miss most of the spring summer stuff because of basketball tournaments, 3. At the end of the year if we are lucky enough to make the playoffs, they are more worried about basketball season, not getting hurt and won't lay it on the line for the team, 4. these are the kids that tend to miss practice and want to sit out for nonsense as well.
Love the basketball kids athleticism and ability but for the most part its not worth the hassle IMO.
BTW, we've gone from all air raid spread stuff to fly-offense, Double Wing.... so I don't have to rely on kids that will only play on their terms.... with the run heavy/mis-direction offense WE CAN make chicken salad out of chicken S**t
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Post by coachthomason on Apr 28, 2017 13:21:58 GMT -6
What message do you want the rest of the team to get out of this? Personally I'd go with #2 and explain why to the #1 kid. I'd remind both that the position will be reevaluated each week and that the best/hardest working kid is going to play.
That being said, we're one of those strange old schools that huddles up between plays. We even send our play calls in with the WR/SE. So I would use those two as the guys that bring in the plays. That way I could communicate with both players every other play.
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Post by **** on Apr 28, 2017 13:42:28 GMT -6
Play kid 2 till kid 1 gets his chit together.
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Post by fantom on Apr 28, 2017 13:51:23 GMT -6
Wondering which kid you'd go with in a situation like this: kid 1: Starting point guard of the basketball team, has some of the best hands and ball skills I've seen. Can be a big contributor as a WR for us. Problem is, he isn't a great route runner. Bigger problem is that he doesn't see it and won't take constructive criticism. Even without improved route running he might contribute more than kid 2 kid 2: Undersized, not the best hands, not the best route runner. May be able to contribute more than kid 1 in the long term, but somewhat of a liability at the moment. Works harder than anyone else in the weight room and is always looking for constructive criticism to improve his game. The easy answer is to try to talk to kid 1 and make him more coachable, but he's a really stubborn one and I've had many conversations with him already and gotten nowhere. Are you playing games now? I'm asking because it's April. They may be different kids by August. Also, what offense is that where you have to choose between two WR's? Do either play defense? |
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Post by blb on Apr 28, 2017 14:33:42 GMT -6
BrendanQBWhy do you describe both as "not good route runners"? Are they not natural WRs, or haven't been coached very well?
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Post by fantom on Apr 28, 2017 14:53:09 GMT -6
BrendanQB Why do you describe both as "not good route runners"? Are they not natural WRs, or haven't been coached very well? And they're rising juniors. How many 16 year olds (maybe 15?) are great route runners? |
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 28, 2017 15:13:38 GMT -6
Is #1 "all in". Is he committed to getting better?
We just had a player quit today...good player...heart wasn't in it. Deciding that baseball is going to give him a scholarship.
I bring that up...because if #1 is stubborn, etc. and won't get better...put #2 in and don't feel bad about it. Win from within. Not some athletic freak that doesn't give a chit.
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 28, 2017 15:41:19 GMT -6
Wondering which kid you'd go with in a situation like this: kid 1: Starting point guard of the basketball team, has some of the best hands and ball skills I've seen. Can be a big contributor as a WR for us. Problem is, he isn't a great route runner. Bigger problem is that he doesn't see it and won't take constructive criticism. Even without improved route running he might contribute more than kid 2 kid 2: Undersized, not the best hands, not the best route runner. May be able to contribute more than kid 1 in the long term, but somewhat of a liability at the moment. Works harder than anyone else in the weight room and is always looking for constructive criticism to improve his game. The easy answer is to try to talk to kid 1 and make him more coachable, but he's a really stubborn one and I've had many conversations with him already and gotten nowhere. Are you playing games now? I'm asking because it's April. They may be different kids by August. Also, what offense is that where you have to choose between two WR's? Do either play defense? We haven't gotten into 7v7 yet, but this situation happened last season and kid 1 has not changed his attitude as of yet. He's just one of those kids who puts himself before his teammates and that bugs the crap out of me. Both kids play corner & safety, but kid 1 hates defense unless he's intercepting the ball. Like I said, It's all about him over the team. |
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 28, 2017 15:44:20 GMT -6
BrendanQB Why do you describe both as "not good route runners"? Are they not natural WRs, or haven't been coached very well? And they're rising juniors. How many 16 year olds (maybe 15?) are great route runners? Good point. What I mean by "not good route runners" is that they don't understand leverage and run every route robotically, exactly how it's drawn in the playbook. Also, they have bad feet in the sense that they struggle getting off the line vs. press corners. Kid 1 is a natural athlete, but refuses to be coached in this. Kid 2 is open to coaching, but is just not a natural athlete. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 28, 2017 16:09:22 GMT -6
Are you playing games now? I'm asking because it's April. They may be different kids by August. Also, what offense is that where you have to choose between two WR's? Do either play defense? We haven't gotten into 7v7 yet, but this situation happened last season and kid 1 has not changed his attitude as of yet. He's just one of those kids who puts himself before his teammates and that bugs the crap out of me. Both kids play corner & safety, but kid 1 hates defense unless he's intercepting the ball. Like I said, It's all about him over the team. 7 on 7 isn't games. 7 0n 7 gets you ready for games. Games start in August so until coach them both up and the one who's the better plays. |
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 28, 2017 16:17:48 GMT -6
We haven't gotten into 7v7 yet, but this situation happened last season and kid 1 has not changed his attitude as of yet. He's just one of those kids who puts himself before his teammates and that bugs the crap out of me. Both kids play corner & safety, but kid 1 hates defense unless he's intercepting the ball. Like I said, It's all about him over the team. 7 on 7 isn't games. 7 0n 7 gets you ready for games. Games start in August so until coach them both up and the one who's the better plays. So you're saying if this is the situation come august, you'd play the better player, kid 1? |
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Post by fantom on Apr 28, 2017 16:19:01 GMT -6
7 on 7 isn't games. 7 0n 7 gets you ready for games. Games start in August so until coach them both up and the one who's the better plays. So you're saying if this is the situation come august, you'd play the better player, kid 1? I said "better player" not "better athlete" but, yeah. Why wouldn't you play the better player? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 29, 2017 8:28:42 GMT -6
BrendanQB It is almost universal that the blood pressures of coaches who try and change selfish uncoachable "athletes" is higher than coaches who figure out how to improve the kids that want to be coached
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Post by s73 on Apr 29, 2017 9:35:50 GMT -6
Same age. Both will be juniors this coming season. Not directing this toward you, but IMO if he isn't even an upper classmen yet and he's pulling this $hit then I would say somewhere along the line his coaches whether it be BB or FB or whatever haven't handled him correctly. I can see some of tis coming from a senior stud maybe, but a sophomore? I'd definitely work the 2nd kid into a rotation and make this kid sweat. Sounds way too big for his britches IMO. |
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Post by s73 on Apr 29, 2017 9:42:30 GMT -6
What message do you want the rest of the team to get out of this? Personally I'd go with #2 and explain why to the #1 kid. I'd remind both that the position will be reevaluated each week and that the best/hardest working kid is going to play. That being said, we're one of those strange old schools that huddles up between plays. We even send our play calls in with the WR/SE. So I would use those two as the guys that bring in the plays. That way I could communicate with both players every other play. I agree that he should work with #2. I disagree that he should explain himself to #1. Not to be a PITA, but I see coaches talking about explaining themselves to talented d-bags all the time like they somehow owe them something. I think you rotate both kids and let the chips fall where they may & if kid #1 has an issue then he can ask the questions. Sounds like OP has already spoken w/ him several times. What's more to say? JMO |
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Post by blb on Apr 29, 2017 14:01:49 GMT -6
All the previous points are well-taken. We are talking about 14-18 year old kids. Sometimes it takes longer for the light bulb to come on for some than others. If Kid #1 never gets it - chooses not to be coachable and be the best he can be - then go with #2 as long as he does. BUT - as fantom posted - everything equal, you play the best player. |
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Post by coachfloyd on Apr 29, 2017 14:07:42 GMT -6
Go two tight.
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Post by s73 on Apr 29, 2017 14:20:28 GMT -6
All the previous points are well-taken. We are talking about 14-18 year old kids. Sometimes it takes longer for the light bulb to come for some than others. If Kid #1 never gets it - chooses not to be coachable and the best he can be - then go with #2 as long as he does. BUT - as fantom posted - everything equal, you play the best player. I agree on all points that generally the best kid plays BLB. I also agree that these are just kids & as a result, we have to maybe give them a bit longer leash. However, I am currently in a dean's position at my school and I have come to the overwhelming and undeniable conclusion that in many of these cases we aren't just fighting the kids but the parents who model, accept or promote this behavior at home (goes for the classroom as well). With that said, I find myself working with both kids until #2 gets good enough to start or until #1 matures into a more coachable athlete. IMO, no need to make a big decision anytime soon since the season is a long way off. I also double down on not explaining yourself again to #1 if you've already spoken to him about his behavior. JMO of course. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 29, 2017 14:39:39 GMT -6
Given the fact that the OP has mentioned two kids for one WR position, I guess he is. |
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Post by blb on Apr 29, 2017 15:01:59 GMT -6
I agree on all points that generally the best kid plays BLB. I also agree that these are just kids & as a result, we have to maybe give them a bit longer leash. However, I am currently in a dean's position at my school and I have come to the overwhelming and undeniable conclusion that in many of these cases we aren't just fighting the kids but the parents who model, accept or promote this behavior at home (goes for the classroom as well). With that said, I find myself working with both kids until #2 gets good enough to start or until #1 matures into a more coachable athlete. IMO, no need to make a big decision anytime soon since the season is a long way off. I also double down on not explaining yourself again to #1 if you've already spoken to him about his behavior.
Of course, s73 - goes without saying the decision should not be made until week of Game 1 this fall.
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Post by coachfloyd on Apr 29, 2017 16:52:28 GMT -6
Given the fact that the OP has mentioned two kids for one WR position, I guess he is. Could be wing t. I was joking btw. Since there is one wr, he's probably run heavy. I would play the guy that will block. |
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 29, 2017 17:27:47 GMT -6
Given the fact that the OP has mentioned two kids for one WR position, I guess he is. Could be wing t. I was joking btw. Since there is one wr, he's probably run heavy. I would play the guy that will block. We're typically 21 personnel, sometimes 22. We have a STUD receiver though who is our #1 guy at the X spot. The competition between these 2 kids is for the starting Z. Obviously one kid will back up both spots, but I just can't stand uncoachable kids |
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Post by fantom on Apr 29, 2017 17:37:36 GMT -6
Given the fact that the OP has mentioned two kids for one WR position, I guess he is. Could be wing t. I was joking btw. Since there is one wr, he's probably run heavy. I would play the guy that will block. I know that you were joking but you may be right. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 29, 2017 18:24:25 GMT -6
Could be wing t. I was joking btw. Since there is one wr, he's probably run heavy. I would play the guy that will block. We're typically 21 personnel, sometimes 22. We have a STUD receiver though who is our #1 guy at the X spot. The competition between these 2 kids is for the starting Z. Obviously one kid will back up both spots, but I just can't stand uncoachable kids This post brought back a memory of a clinic talk I heard just a couple months ago: a successful coach from Missouri was presenting on his offense and he put two clips back-to-back on purpose. One of them he described the WR as the "absolute best kid our school has produced." He wasn't talking about football; the kid caught a hitch pass and as he was turning upfield stumbled over his own two feet and the play produced a five yard gain. On the next clip, the coach described the WR as "Umm...let's just say...not the best kid our school has produced..." He caught his hitch route, juked a kid, ran a kid over, and took it 70 yards for a TD. He then looked at us and shrugged and said something to the effect of, "Sometimes you have to play who you have to play." Now, it doesn't sound like the talent disparity here is that great, but I think we've all had to play kids at some point we would have preferred not to play for whatever reason. I'm not saying you're taking this into consideration, but whether you can stand the kid or not shouldn't be one of the factors on if he starts or not. |
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