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Post by funkfriss on Apr 12, 2017 12:47:16 GMT -6
I'm not a Yes Man and never was for the 4 HCs I worked under (including my 1st year as a student teacher). Likewise, I hate Yes Men on my staff as well and I get pissed/paranoid when my staff agree with me too much. Bottom line, I like different ideas, opinions, and disagreement and I foster it.
That said, have any of you had the experience of it crossing the line from having a healthy difference of opinion to being a problem that needed to be taken care of? What happened, how did it cross the line and how was it handled?
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CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
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Post by CoachSP on Apr 12, 2017 13:29:36 GMT -6
I think maturity plays a role. I've seen a guy who tries to foster different ideas but did so for the purpose of creating a debate where he could prove his point. In reality, he didn't appear to want different ideas at all. Some guys like spirited debates. In that case it seemed like he asked more for affirmation instead of a different opinion.
I don't necessarily think agreeing with the HC means being a yes man. If I have an idea, I'll speak up. If I don't think my idea is better than yours, then I will keep it to myself. Doesn't pay to bring it up just for the sake of being different.
To quote Moneyball, "we (assistants) make suggestions, you (HC) make decisions."
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 12, 2017 13:44:03 GMT -6
I understand what you're saying, but as a HC and as a former assistant, this is the HC's ship. "If the captain tells you to stick the tank, you stick the {censored} tank!!"- Andy Hilstrand.
I don't want a bunch of people that are routinely going to question what we're doing as my assistants. Maybe talk to me privately about concerns, but frankly, I'm going to run this the way I want it run. If you think that's too much of a problem, there are other jobs in the world.
That being said, I did work for a HC that was really bad at his job. Didn't care about the job, didn't care about the kids, just wanted a paycheck. I did what he flat told me to do, but outside that, I did not do a good job of executing his "vision". It's hard for me to follow a guy who says in one of our first staff meetings "Why the {censored} would anyone want to coach at (the place we were)?".
I was a terrible assistant for him, but I think I was a good coach for the kids. That runs entirely contrary to what I posted above, but I think what I posted above is assuming you work for a halfway competent HC.
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Post by **** on Apr 12, 2017 14:47:14 GMT -6
First year at my current job I had a position coach that would always question the way I wanted things done. We did not get along and had to be separated a handful of times but never in front of the kids. I told HC after the season he's gone or I am gone. He's gone.
HC lets me run defense/special teams my way and will give me ideas and play devils advocate at times. Sometimes it's good, sometimes I flat out tell him I'm doing it my way, end of story.
I want my position coaches do to what I tell them to do. If they have ideas they can bring them to me and we can check it out. No freelancing.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 12, 2017 14:56:33 GMT -6
I'm not a Yes Man and never was for the 4 HCs I worked under (including my 1st year as a student teacher). Likewise, I hate Yes Men on my staff as well and I get pissed/paranoid when my staff agree with me too much. Bottom line, I like different ideas, opinions, and disagreement and I foster it. That said, have any of you had the experience of it crossing the line from having a healthy difference of opinion to being a problem that needed to be taken care of? What happened, how did it cross the line and how was it handled? When the meeting is over & the HFC makes the final decision (which IS his prerogative) all debate ceases! Any assistant who cannot live with that should turn in his letter of resignation, or be FIRED!!! If you work for a man, in heaven's name work for him! If he pays you wages that supply you your bread and butter, work for him - speak well of him, think well of him, stand by him and stand by the institution he represents. I think if I worked for a man I would work for him. I would not work for him a part of the time, and the rest of the time work against him. I would give an undivided service or none. If put to the pinch, an ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 12, 2017 15:20:41 GMT -6
My rules for assistants:
1. We have a base offensive playbook with our base running schemes and passing schemes. We will discuss "wrinkles" as long as they fit within our scheme, don't require an addition of a new formation, and don't require new blocking schemes.
2. We have a base defensive playbook with base coverages, fronts, blitzes and twists. I am open to the idea of a few different blitzes/variations of current blitzes as long as it doesn't require a change in front or in coverage.
3. We will discuss personnel, practice schedules, game plans/adjustments and drills at length. These are the areas that improve performance on the field; tinkering with Xs and Os does not.
4. "Discussion" happens behind closed doors; not on the practice field.
5. "No." is a full sentence.
I am a bit of a micromanager in many ways. I want to give staff ownership of the program but I feel that ownership needs to come from taking pride coaching their position, not from being Madden heroes on the chalkboard.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 12, 2017 16:13:45 GMT -6
The Head Coach isn't always right, but he is always the HEAD Coach!!!
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Post by bluboy on Apr 12, 2017 17:27:21 GMT -6
The Head Coach isn't always right, but he is always the HEAD Coach!!! I find myself saying this a lot to some of the guys with whom I currently coach, but they don't get it. I think part of the reason for not getting it is that they have never "walked in the HC's shoes".
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 12, 2017 18:15:47 GMT -6
The Head Coach isn't always right, but he is always the HEAD Coach!!! I find myself saying this a lot to some of the guys with whom I currently coach, but they don't get it. I think part of the reason for not getting it is that they have never "walked in the HC's shoes". It is important for the HFC to have the final word in hiring his assistants. THEN, make staff policies clear, and letting the assistants know that "hey - if things go wrong - I bear the responsibility - so although I value your input - my word will be final"!!! I get to know the people I would consider hiring in advance, so I would know if they were the "right-type people" I wanted, or if they were potentially a damned CANCER!
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 12, 2017 20:32:31 GMT -6
I'm not a Yes Man and never was for the 4 HCs I worked under (including my 1st year as a student teacher). Likewise, I hate Yes Men on my staff as well and I get pissed/paranoid when my staff agree with me too much. Bottom line, I like different ideas, opinions, and disagreement and I foster it. That said, have any of you had the experience of it crossing the line from having a healthy difference of opinion to being a problem that needed to be taken care of? What happened, how did it cross the line and how was it handled? I think I would define crossing the line as the subordinate not being able to let it go. I believe it is good for people to have different thoughts and opinions, but as has been stated in this thread several times, the HC is the HC right or wrong. If an assistant disagrees, and can't let it go then it is crossing the line. Also, I would say that you can disagree over some things with no problems (scheme related stuff) and other more philosophic disagreements might not go smoothly.
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Post by carookie on Apr 12, 2017 20:53:48 GMT -6
I've known a lot of guys who claim they don't want "yes men", but instantly go on the defensive anytime someone challenges them with a different idea. I think issues arise when A) HCs rely on their authority to be trump card (I'm right because I am the HC) and B) when assistants don't accept that being the HC is the trump card. Starting with point A, if you are a HC and you are claiming to be open to advice or challenge, then you better be able to defend your opinion empirically with logic. If you have to just talk over the AC or hold authority over him as the key to winning the debate then why even ask for advice. Conversely, for point B- if you can't accept that the HC will justify some decisions based solely on his position then don't coach for him.
This is why I prefer to work for HCs who say from the start, "I appreciate your knowledge, but we are gonna do it this way." Maybe because thats how I always do it too.
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 13, 2017 5:28:56 GMT -6
Just to play devils advocate, how many of you have been in a situation (like larrymoe) where it seems most friction doesn't involve as much X and O talk, but more program, practice and organization. If the HC is screwing this up, and everyone around him knows it, to me the whole "he signs my paycheck" BS goes out the window.
Again, behind closed doors, but I think if you are truly in it for the kids, this kind of stuff has to be addressed. If it isn't, a death spiral begins and you're all screwed in the end. If it may be things that can be fixed by putting your heads together and finding solutions, why wouldn't you embrace that.
Now I know that the discussion will now turn to blaming incompetent assistants who don't know what the HC knows, and that is a very true statement. I am talking about competent, professional assistants and head coaches. If you have a bunch of boneheads working for you, our your HC is a bonehead, no amount of talking it out is ever gonna make a difference and you need to vacate that situation as soon as possible.
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Post by rosey65 on Apr 13, 2017 6:59:59 GMT -6
My HC does a great job of working with assistants. He'll hear us out on anything we feel like bringing up, he'll go with it if we CONVINCE HIM, and is very good at slamming the door on anything else. There have been a few assistants in the past who couldnt grasp that, and none of them lasted very long.
There was a learning curve for me, tho. I'll try to be brief...we like to have 2 OL coaches. We're wing-t, have upwards of 7 OL on the field, and the extra eyes are great. Some of the guys who've worked with me have been great, tried to learn how we do things, really made a difference with the kids. Some of them were intimidated, overwhelmed, or too prideful to say they didnt understand what we were teaching, and simply became a spectator halfway thru the season. It has been a learning experience for me, teaching "our way" while listening and adapting to other styles. When I first got here, I was the "assistant" OL coach, to an old-school guy who's drills and teachings were very rote, nothing too applicable. I was fresh out of college, full of piss n vinegar, immediately instituted my own ideas with minimal talk with the incumbent. Personality-wise, we got along great, and we still hang out at clinics, but he did not like the idea of a (very pushy) assistant, and left after 2 years.
I worked for a wrestling coach for 2 years who was an embarrassment, being associated with him in public at tournaments burned in my soul. 1st year was ok, mostly because I was naive. As I spent more time in the football program, with the above-mentioned HC, I was able to really see what a quality program and coach should look like. The 2nd year wrestling was painful, every day. I kinda stayed with it for the kids, I kept everything professional, but I mostly just wanted the paycheck, which was to be given the week I was getting married. We ended the season, privately, on very bad terms. I wish I had left at the start of the season.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Apr 13, 2017 9:22:49 GMT -6
I'll just add, just because the HC asks my opinion on something doesn't obligate him to follow my advice. He may just want to talk through an idea or situation with somebody that he trusts, but he still has the right to ultimately come to a different conclusion than me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 16:16:00 GMT -6
If youre not the HC you have 2 choices if they wont at least listen to you.
You can grin and bear it,or... you can walk away
Theres no shame in either one, though sometimes you feel like you abandoned the players.
However sometimes its better to walk from a situation than try to make things work because they crystalize and become bigger problems down the road.
Not everyones a yes man, some guys dont want them on their staff, some guys require them on their staff...ive been on both types.
In the end its better to find the right situation for you. You dont want to be in a place you hate or worse makes you consider quitting coaching alltogether
I wish you the best in your future just remember to never burn bridges always speak highly of everyone you worked with or for. And then decide on your next move
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Post by carookie on Apr 13, 2017 19:53:27 GMT -6
The worst is when you get one of those types of ACs who pride themselves on 'not being a yes man' so they incessantly argue everything (no matter how irrelevant or how clear it is they won't make a change). In the end it just detracts from the overall ability of the team to accomplish.
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 13, 2017 20:10:57 GMT -6
I've had different experiences in this.
The good experience was one with a staff of professional coaches. Stuff got heated sometimes but everyone always had the same overall vision (that is, winning). I got into a world-class donnybrook with the DC once over whether a specific receiver on film was running a stick-stop or a fly and die, but the next morning we're laughing over eight year old film and discussing nuances of how to defend two receivers to the boundary.
In this case the senior management of the team was trying to make the best decisions they could and using the input of the whole staff. Their title is "coordinator." They COORDINATE the efforts in their bailiwick.
Another example had the coordinators taking in input from the whole staff and just tried to do everything. It was a bloated mess. An inexperienced and overconfident coordinator and mostly his buddies meant he wasn't filtering ideas, he couldn't say no.
Then there was the inexperienced, insecure coordinator who wouldn't listen to his far more experienced positional coaches. He would stick with stuff that was obviously bad because he didn't know how to take a contribution without capitulating. Later in they year he would say he wanted open suggestions but he'd only get a tenth of the truth because by that point the list of obvious fixes that were needed was out of control.
So, there's a middle ground.
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 15, 2017 11:44:57 GMT -6
At the end of the day you must be unified in front of the kids. Do all of your cussin and discussin' in the office, and when you are in front of the kids you act like the game plan/practice plan/workout/technique is the greatest thing that ever existed. If you aren't on board, then you need to find another job. It isn't fair to anyone to be in a program you don't believe in. If you are bitching to kids and coaches, you have to go. If you are in a situation as a coach where you aren't on board with things, find a place you will be happy.
Important thing to remember: The head coach is the head coach. The coordinator is the coordinator. Know your role and embrace it. At the end of the day the person with the title makes the decision. You must go with it. If they want to run a play you don't like, you better coach it like you invented it. That is what a good assistant coach does. And you aren't always going to have a chance to voice your opinion.
The best advice I would give is this: Coach it like it was your idea, and if you can't do that, then you are doing a disservice to the kids and program.
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 15, 2017 12:48:24 GMT -6
The worst is when you get one of those types of ACs who pride themselves on 'not being a yes man' so they incessantly argue everything (no matter how irrelevant or how clear it is they won't make a change). In the end it just detracts from the overall ability of the team to accomplish. I think this is a good point. I'm not a "Yes man"...but at the same time, I very rarely disagree with my HC because our beliefs in how to do things match up so well. I'm not a "Yes man" but I'm not going to disagree just to disagree either.
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Post by s73 on Apr 15, 2017 14:08:58 GMT -6
I'm not a Yes Man and never was for the 4 HCs I worked under (including my 1st year as a student teacher). Likewise, I hate Yes Men on my staff as well and I get pissed/paranoid when my staff agree with me too much. Bottom line, I like different ideas, opinions, and disagreement and I foster it. That said, have any of you had the experience of it crossing the line from having a healthy difference of opinion to being a problem that needed to be taken care of? What happened, how did it cross the line and how was it handled? First off, I WANT YES MEN IF......they are young inexperienced guys who have a lot of learning to do. Have had a few guys in my tenure that have little experience but still want an equal voice. I know this can be controversial to say, especially around younger coaches, but when I was coming up I had to pay my dues and some of that involved keeping my ears open and mouth shut. ESPECIALLY if that guy hasn't opened our playbook or viewed hudl film or been in the weight room since the day the season ended. NOW...if a guy with some experience and previous success and preps the right way has an opinion? By all means. With that said, it crosses a line when you disagree & think it's over with and find out he's still b!tching about it after the fact to other staff members. JMO.
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 15, 2017 14:55:32 GMT -6
What if the HC tells you as the DC (insert other position here) "you can do what you want...because I trust you". And then changes the stuff you do?
I get it...he's the HC...can make the changes. It's just a poor way of going about it in my opinion. Don't tell me I can do what I want...and then say I can't.
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Post by s73 on Apr 17, 2017 5:45:53 GMT -6
What if the HC tells you as the DC (insert other position here) "you can do what you want...because I trust you". And then changes the stuff you do? I get it...he's the HC...can make the changes. It's just a poor way of going about it in my opinion. Don't tell me I can do what I want...and then say I can't. I think that depends on how well what you were doing was working AND....did it fit into the teaching progression of other levels? As a HC EARLY in my career I said things like that b/c.....I thought it would win my guys over to do the stuff WE were doing. Then I found out that guys were kind of doing their own thing. So....I had to reel them in. Which didn't go over very well. What I learned is that it's just like a classroom. IMO, you have to set ground rules w/ your staff and tell them exactly what you expect. Then , once they EARN your trust you can loosen up a little. TO ME, being HC is kind of a catch 22. If you don't give guys lots of freedom then you "micro manage". On the other hand, if you do & they don't get it done, you are still the guy being held accountable. Hence, I would rather be viewed as a micro manager who has confidence in our approach, then the "go along to get along guy" who isn't sure what we are doing will work. I think coordinators and position guys don't ALWAYS see the big picture of continuity between levels. That's just as important as anything else your program does. JMO.
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Post by funkfriss on Apr 17, 2017 7:51:40 GMT -6
I'm not a Yes Man and never was for the 4 HCs I worked under (including my 1st year as a student teacher). Likewise, I hate Yes Men on my staff as well and I get pissed/paranoid when my staff agree with me too much. Bottom line, I like different ideas, opinions, and disagreement and I foster it. That said, have any of you had the experience of it crossing the line from having a healthy difference of opinion to being a problem that needed to be taken care of? What happened, how did it cross the line and how was it handled? First off, I WANT YES MEN IF......they are young inexperienced guys who have a lot of learning to do. Have had a few guys in my tenure that have little experience but still want an equal voice. I know this can be controversial to say, especially around younger coaches, but when I was coming up I had to pay my dues and some of that involved keeping my ears open and mouth shut. ESPECIALLY if that guy hasn't opened our playbook or viewed hudl film or been in the weight room since the day the season ended. NOW...if a guy with some experience and previous success and preps the right way has an opinion? By all means. With that said, it crosses a line when you disagree & think it's over with and find out he's still b!tching about it after the fact to other staff members. JMO. See, I disagree with this thinking. I understand what you are saying as far as earning the right to speak and have a say, but I disagree with it for two reasons. First, if you were hired by the HC then that HC believes you have something to contribute. You'd be surprised what you can learn from somebody who "doesn't know anything" about the game. Case and point would be that in the past I have given my brother access to Hudl to watch our games and give me his thoughts. He never played past JV and would be the textbook definition of a casual fan, but he sees things that go past me and our other coaches sometimes. 90% of his comments were babble that didn't do us any good, but every game he watched there would be at least one thing he caught that we didn't. Kinda like the old saying, we see the forest, he sees the trees. So, I don't like the idea of stifling conversation because you "need to put in your dues." I'll take 9 s*** comments if the next one produces a diamond. Second, by wanting rookies to earn their stripes you are creating a culture that fears criticism or failure. I can't tell you how many times I spouted off an opinion as a young coach only to be told (in some way or other) "You don't know what the F*** you're talking about and here's why." To me, each of these occasions was a GREAT learning experience that I wouldn't have had if I had kept my mouth shut. Yes, the young know-it-all gets annoying at times, but if that guy knows his role and learns through it I think it can really be valuable. This was the basic reason for my creating this thread and I have loved the opinions I've heard. I'm having trouble with an assistant who goes along with what we're doing, but he's not on board. He'll coach the drills, correct the mistakes, etc, but he keeps offering the same suggestions, which I've shot down numerous times, and won't take the time to learn what we're doing. He knows what he knows and that's good enough for him. We're short on coaches, but the other ones we have are good, young assistants who are eager to learn and I'm ready to be done with him. I just wasn't sure if I was justified.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -6
I'm having trouble with an assistant who goes along with what we're doing, but he's not on board. He'll coach the drills, correct the mistakes, etc, but he keeps offering the same suggestions, which I've shot down numerous times, and won't take the time to learn what we're doing. He knows what he knows and that's good enough for him. We're short on coaches, but the other ones we have are good, young assistants who are eager to learn and I'm ready to be done with him. I just wasn't sure if I was justified. Is he being divisive about it? Is it causing trouble? Is he coaching the drills you want, how you want them coached? Is he correcting the mistakes you want to correct in the manner you want them corrected? If the answer to those two things are yes, I have no idea what you are really complaining about.
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Post by funkfriss on Apr 17, 2017 9:10:00 GMT -6
I'm having trouble with an assistant who goes along with what we're doing, but he's not on board. He'll coach the drills, correct the mistakes, etc, but he keeps offering the same suggestions, which I've shot down numerous times, and won't take the time to learn what we're doing. He knows what he knows and that's good enough for him. We're short on coaches, but the other ones we have are good, young assistants who are eager to learn and I'm ready to be done with him. I just wasn't sure if I was justified. Is he being divisive about it? Is it causing trouble? Is he coaching the drills you want, how you want them coached? Is he correcting the mistakes you want to correct in the manner you want them corrected? If the answer to those two things are yes, I have no idea what you are really complaining about. See, this is why I'm looking for opinions and I'm glad you're helping. I feel like it's a gray area. Divisive? Definitely amongst the staff. Everyone on staff knows he doesn't like what we're doing on offense (or defense for that matter) and anytime something goes wrong it's because we're not under center running the I because that's all he knows. Is he outwardly defiant? Not really and I think this is where I'm hung up. He runs the drills, although he's never a fan of them and lets me know about it. He's hit or miss on the corrections, mostly because he thinks he knows what he's talking about, but it doesn't fit what we're doing. I don't think he's a bad coach, I just don't think he's a good fit for our program because he doesn't believe in it and doesn't do anything to learn it, yet wants to provide input. I've provided resources for him to learn more, but he's not interested. All of our other coaches are forward thinking and always looking at how we can make things better, but he's completely stuck in his ways. My gut tells me to get rid of him. If it will improve the morale and chemistry of the coaching staff would that in itself be a good reason?
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Post by blb on Apr 17, 2017 9:19:03 GMT -6
funkfrissI would call him in and tell him I don't see why I have to be punished by being around someone who is always frowning and not pulling in the same direction as the rest of us. Would tell him to either start smiling and GWTP, or find someplace else to work.
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 17, 2017 9:41:45 GMT -6
That is exactly the issue that holds many programs back. They tolerate people who tolerate being mediocre. A great assistant coach puts everything they have behind the scheme and the system whether it is what they believe in or not. A mediocre coach lets everyone know how you should be doing something else. When they are a head coach or a coordinator they can decide what scheme is being run. In the meantime, they need to embrace what you are doing and coach it like they came up with it.
He has two choices: Every time he goes on the field to work with kids he can 1. embrace the system and scheme, or 2. he can tolerate it. I don't want to work with a guy that tolerates it. I would rather have one less coach than have a coach who doesn't embrace what we are doing. If you coach half in/half out, you are a traitor. Period. And being a traitor is disloyal. It is disloyal to the program, the coaches, and the kids.
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Post by veerman on Apr 17, 2017 10:02:09 GMT -6
First year at my current job I had a position coach that would always question the way I wanted things done. We did not get along and had to be separated a handful of times but never in front of the kids. I told HC after the season he's gone or I am gone. He's gone. HC lets me run defense/special teams my way and will give me ideas and play devils advocate at times. Sometimes it's good, sometimes I flat out tell him I'm doing it my way, end of story.I want my position coaches do to what I tell them to do. If they have ideas they can bring them to me and we can check it out. No freelancing. Not to be blunt but if I was the HC and you told me that your going to do it your way, end of story regardless what I said....then you would probably be looking for a job. Understand that he is allowing you to call whatever it is your getting to call. Like others have said its the HC ship, either take orders and do what is asked of you or find another ship.
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Post by **** on Apr 17, 2017 10:32:44 GMT -6
First year at my current job I had a position coach that would always question the way I wanted things done. We did not get along and had to be separated a handful of times but never in front of the kids. I told HC after the season he's gone or I am gone. He's gone. HC lets me run defense/special teams my way and will give me ideas and play devils advocate at times. Sometimes it's good, sometimes I flat out tell him I'm doing it my way, end of story.I want my position coaches do to what I tell them to do. If they have ideas they can bring them to me and we can check it out. No freelancing. Not to be blunt but if I was the HC and you told me that your going to do it your way, end of story regardless what I said....then you would probably be looking for a job. Understand that he is allowing you to call whatever it is your getting to call. Like others have said its the HC ship, either take orders and do what is asked of you or find another ship. I am blunt, no offense taken. I am blessed to have a good relationship with the HC, plus we have been together for years. If I phuk up I will take the ass chewing and accept responsibility... but winning and leading the state in shut outs cures everything.
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Post by newhope on Apr 17, 2017 10:37:13 GMT -6
Is he being divisive about it? Is it causing trouble? Is he coaching the drills you want, how you want them coached? Is he correcting the mistakes you want to correct in the manner you want them corrected? If the answer to those two things are yes, I have no idea what you are really complaining about. See, this is why I'm looking for opinions and I'm glad you're helping. I feel like it's a gray area. Divisive? Definitely amongst the staff. Everyone on staff knows he doesn't like what we're doing on offense (or defense for that matter) and anytime something goes wrong it's because we're not under center running the I because that's all he knows. Is he outwardly defiant? Not really and I think this is where I'm hung up. He runs the drills, although he's never a fan of them and lets me know about it. He's hit or miss on the corrections, mostly because he thinks he knows what he's talking about, but it doesn't fit what we're doing. I don't think he's a bad coach, I just don't think he's a good fit for our program because he doesn't believe in it and doesn't do anything to learn it, yet wants to provide input. I've provided resources for him to learn more, but he's not interested. All of our other coaches are forward thinking and always looking at how we can make things better, but he's completely stuck in his ways. My gut tells me to get rid of him. If it will improve the morale and chemistry of the coaching staff would that in itself be a good reason? Your gut is right. He's harming your program, get rid of him unless you can't get someone else in there. Being a good assistant is more than being able to teach drills or schemes. He'd have to be one heck of a coach in every other aspect for me to put up with the rest of it. I have put it up with guys who were a pain, but they were really good at everything else they did and the program was better off with them than without them.
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