|
|
Post by dsqa on Apr 7, 2017 2:59:15 GMT -6
LOL
I think in many cases regarding scouting measurable told to kids, it's become more about what coaches would prefer to have rather than what's actually available in the real world. Unfortunately, the love affair with height is one of the most over rated aspects in the recruiting game.
...according to my friend Will Hewlett
And I agree..."Height in a QB often creates opportunities they didn't earn or have the talent to match."
It's not true for every kid I know, but if they aren't 6' 3", they better be fast, super intelligent, and have a rocket arm...
Top OSU QB recruit this year was Tate Martell, 5' 9"-4.4 speed
|
|
dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
|
Post by dbeck84 on Apr 7, 2017 8:56:17 GMT -6
We seem to be the only team with the opposite problem. We haven't had anyone with a chance to play above D3 since I've been here, but we've had a lot of kids who would be very good D3 players who just choose not to play in college at all. Anyone else have experience where your best players don't seem to want to go on to the next level?
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 7, 2017 9:01:13 GMT -6
We seem to be the only team with the opposite problem. We haven't had anyone with a chance to play above D3 since I've been here, but we've had a lot of kids who would be very good D3 players who just choose not to play in college at all. Anyone else have experience where your best players don't seem to want to go on to the next level? Yes. I'd rather have kids decide not to go play college ball than go and quit because they find out they really didn't love it like they thought. The latter happens a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 7, 2017 9:05:18 GMT -6
I note that the criteria in the OP comes from a recruiting site. If I was the suspicious type- which, of course, I'm not- I'd suspect that it was an effort to drum up business. If you're a QB who meets those criteria- 6'4", 220, 4.4, throw the ball out of the stadium- you don't need any help to get recruited. You'll get offers fro schools that don't even play football. If you're 6'0", 180 you and your parents may think that you need help.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 7, 2017 9:48:53 GMT -6
I guess? But those sites are usually loath to deal in facts, even alternative ones. Those numbers might also just spook parents into thinking/realizing that it's not going to happen.
Wrt those kids not wanting to play in college, any ideas why? Do they not want to go to college? Do they not like football and only play it for the secondary benefits (social status)?
|
|
|
|
Post by fshamrock on Apr 7, 2017 9:49:54 GMT -6
We seem to be the only team with the opposite problem. We haven't had anyone with a chance to play above D3 since I've been here, but we've had a lot of kids who would be very good D3 players who just choose not to play in college at all. Anyone else have experience where your best players don't seem to want to go on to the next level? d3 football is a pretty tough gig....the schools are normally expensive, far away from home, and you get all of the pressure of being a student athlete with none of perks I know a lot of guys go and stick it out and have a great experience playing, but for a lot kids it just doesn't seem like a good option I don't ever expressly talk kids out of it, but I do try to give them a clear picture of what life is going to be like...some of these kids think its going to be like the college football they see on TV |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 7, 2017 10:34:43 GMT -6
We seem to be the only team with the opposite problem. We haven't had anyone with a chance to play above D3 since I've been here, but we've had a lot of kids who would be very good D3 players who just choose not to play in college at all. Anyone else have experience where your best players don't seem to want to go on to the next level? d3 football is a pretty tough gig....the schools are normally expensive, far away from home, and you get all of the pressure of being a student athlete with none of perks I know a lot of guys go and stick it out and have a great experience playing, but for a lot kids it just doesn't seem like a good option I don't ever expressly talk kids out of it, but I do try to give them a clear picture of what life is going to be like...some of these kids think its going to be like the college football they see on TV It's not just academic pressure. Social pressure is big, too. These kids are out on their own for the first time and, if you're not getting a schollie, it can get REALLY easy to sit back and have a beer and chase skirt as opposed to busting your balls at football practice. |
|
dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
|
Post by dbeck84 on Apr 7, 2017 11:31:01 GMT -6
I was a D3 player myself, so I know all the positives and negatives that go into that decision. We once had a local guy help coach who was an FBS player and had played a few years in the league. I still remember the following conversation:
Him: How many of you guys are on scholarship?
Us: ....none of us
Him: So you guys get your books paid for or something?
Us:...no
Him: So what the hell are you doing here?
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 10, 2017 5:53:23 GMT -6
I was a d3 player as well. I "survived" if you will for a few different reasons (in hindsight):
- I played early...therefore never went though the process of being a HS star and becoming a nobody again
- I had a non-athlete roommate...so during camp, when players really question themselves about their decision to play college football (i.e. their body is destroyed from 3-a-days, they are getting wrecked as a piss-ant freshman in drills etc) I was totally by myself and I basically went to practices/film all day then came back and went straight to bed until the next day came
- I NEVER expected to play early...I was just trying to make the team and get on a special teams unit or travel; these kids live in a different culture where they have created pressure on each other...basically they are "trash" if they don't make the travel list or get on the field, and I never felt like that at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 10, 2017 8:13:09 GMT -6
Your last point is a big reason why I've always hyped scout team and made sure that the new guys are appropriately respected. I sell how performing on scout is how you get noticed either for next year or when there's an injury or even sometimes you just beat out a guy. I mention how guys who make the bottom end of the travel roster have to be careful not to refuse scout reps because you end up getting very few reps that way and you can get shown up by a guy taking all the scout reps.
Keeping rookies emotionally invested is hard to do, especially before they put in a whole offseason and get indoctrinated. Lots of rookies get eaten up by that doubt, and shortsighted seniors will prey on it to protect their own playing time.
Something that's helped also is to make seniors accountable for certain things. We tasked the players with certain menial tasks, like cleaning the kitchen (it was a little mini kitchen with a fridge, a toaster, and a microwave). So a captain made a cleaning schedule week to week for positional groups and I made it clear that while they could decree that cleaning it was a rookie job, if it wasn't done to my satisfaction it was the seniors who'd be paying the price.
|
|
CoachD
Probationary Member
Posts: 6 
|
Post by CoachD on Apr 11, 2017 6:04:13 GMT -6
I find most of the time kids that could play in college (any sport) don't want to bc of burnout and their desire really isn't what mom and dad think it is. Kids are not committed like they were back in the 80's,90's and maybe the early 2000's. Kids don't really want to work hard anymore. Now you do have the exceptions i know. Jmo
|
|
|
|
Post by The Lunch Pail on Apr 11, 2017 6:27:41 GMT -6
I find most of the time kids that could play in college (any sport) don't want to bc of burnout and their desire really isn't what mom and dad think it is. Kids are not committed like they were back in the 80's,90's and maybe the early 2000's. Kids don't really want to work hard anymore. Now you do have the exceptions i know. Jmo I strongly disagree. Kids want to work just as hard now as they did 20 years ago. Burnout is caused mainly by specialization and unwanted pressure from outside sources (i.e. parents) to perform to a high standard. |
|
|
|
Post by natenator on Apr 11, 2017 6:44:40 GMT -6
I find most of the time kids that could play in college (any sport) don't want to bc of burnout and their desire really isn't what mom and dad think it is. Kids are not committed like they were back in the 80's,90's and maybe the early 2000's. Kids don't really want to work hard anymore. Now you do have the exceptions i know. Jmo I strongly disagree. Kids want to work just as hard now as they did 20 years ago. Burnout is caused mainly by specialization and unwanted pressure from outside sources (i.e. parents) to perform to a high standard. And dipsh!t coaches always believing that more is better |
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 11, 2017 8:34:58 GMT -6
I find most of the time kids that could play in college (any sport) don't want to bc of burnout and their desire really isn't what mom and dad think it is. Kids are not committed like they were back in the 80's,90's and maybe the early 2000's. Kids don't really want to work hard anymore. Now you do have the exceptions i know. Jmo I semi-agree. Commitment is not lacking altogether, but commitment has changed. I think commitment is stronger today than it has ever been, but it is a commitment to personal achievement more so than commitment to a team. I've got kids that will do ANYTHING I tell them if they think it will help them personally achieve their goals. But it's a little bit of a harder sell to get them to buy in to the team concepts (we still get them to buy in but it's a tougher fight). If you think there is a lack of commitment just ask yourself: How many kids are seeking personal trainers/individual development today versus the 90s? How many kids are engaging in off season action, 7v7 tournaments, camps, prospect days etc vs the 80s? My parents would have laughed at me if I said I wanted to go to 4 7v7 tournaments, lift 4-days per week with a personal trainer, go to 5 camps in the spring/summer and they have to give me a ride to all of them...HA! I had blue-collar parents and they would have told me it's cool if I pay for it all and find rides because they had to work, but I would have had to do it myself. Now I do agree that their is a DOWNFALL to all of this- the kid/parent inevitably will want something in return, whether it comes from their own coaches, playing time, scholarship etc. And if they don't get a return on investment then it's always someone else's fault. |
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Apr 11, 2017 8:59:02 GMT -6
We've been fairly successful on the field. We've sent a couple to the next level. This year's senior class thinks we have a hate on for them about 'getting them a scholarship'. HC had a meeting last night about how to get into school, brought a guy that is the step father of a former D1 guys we had who sat down organized their experiences of the process and wants to share with others. We had 20 show up. He even has set up a 'last chance' combine at the high school this Saturday. He has a "recruiter's guide" of every kid in the program when they walk through the door.
One of the ACs brought of the point; take a list of all the guys that got tossed from the weight room, made run hills for poor attitude/practice/talking back/etc...... and that list exactly mirrors the ones beeching about not getting offers.
|
|
|
|
Post by jrk5150 on Apr 11, 2017 9:11:41 GMT -6
Example: we had a kid a few years ago who played left tackle for us. 6'6 275 lbs. of athletic superiority. He turned down an offer from Northwest Missouri State (Division II POWERHOUSE!) to play at a perennial punchline FCS school. This was a classic "D1 Bound" kid who showed up three times all year to the weight room and was in awful shape all season. He's a good kid who never got it. Another kid from that same class would have been a stud LB at the NAIA level (lots of local NAIA schools in Mid MO) but decided to go to possibly one of the worst teams in Division II football. A kids decision is his decision, but I feel like sometimes they need to realize how good you need to be to play at ____ level. Frankly, when it comes to college choice, it should be all about where they're comfortable. Unless you're moving on to play after college, where you go isn't about playing time or W/L's, it's about what you do with the other 75% of your time that you aren't doing your sport. NAIA, D2, D1 FBS/FCS - who cares? I remember when I signed D2 (hoops), my AAU coach was pissed saying he could have helped me do better. I didn't care - I liked the coach and I liked the school. We lost close to 100 games in my 4 years - enough so that the school started a transition to D3 not too long after, LOL, but I wouldn't have traded it for anything. Met my wife there. Still miss that place. That said, I remember while in school looking at the walk-ons, and thinking about D3, and thinking "no WAY I put up with all this sh*t without my ride". And that's basketball, not even football which is 100x harder on your body. Now I think differently because I have the perspective of age. And fortunately my son thinks differently as he's a football walk on at an FCS school, he just wants to be part of the program. No expectation of ever seeing the field. Good for him. Although he's a long-snapper so he's not getting his body mangled. If he was a "regular" player I'd probably think differently... :-) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 9:40:35 GMT -6
Like Urban Meyer said in one of his latest videos, "If you want to be recruited by Ohio State, go and be the best football player on your high school football team."
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 11, 2017 9:48:36 GMT -6
Example: we had a kid a few years ago who played left tackle for us. 6'6 275 lbs. of athletic superiority. He turned down an offer from Northwest Missouri State (Division II POWERHOUSE!) to play at a perennial punchline FCS school. This was a classic "D1 Bound" kid who showed up three times all year to the weight room and was in awful shape all season. He's a good kid who never got it. Another kid from that same class would have been a stud LB at the NAIA level (lots of local NAIA schools in Mid MO) but decided to go to possibly one of the worst teams in Division II football. A kids decision is his decision, but I feel like sometimes they need to realize how good you need to be to play at ____ level. Frankly, when it comes to college choice, it should be all about where they're comfortable. Unless you're moving on to play after college, where you go isn't about playing time or W/L's, it's about what you do with the other 75% of your time that you aren't doing your sport. NAIA, D2, D1 FBS/FCS - who cares? I remember when I signed D2 (hoops), my AAU coach was pissed saying he could have helped me do better. I didn't care - I liked the coach and I liked the school. We lost close to 100 games in my 4 years - enough so that the school started a transition to D3 not too long after, LOL, but I wouldn't have traded it for anything. Met my wife there. Still miss that place. That said, I remember while in school looking at the walk-ons, and thinking about D3, and thinking "no WAY I put up with all this sh*t without my ride". And that's basketball, not even football which is 100x harder on your body. Now I think differently because I have the perspective of age. And fortunately my son thinks differently as he's a football walk on at an FCS school, he just wants to be part of the program. No expectation of ever seeing the field. Good for him. Although he's a long-snapper so he's not getting his body mangled. If he was a "regular" player I'd probably think differently... :-) Never looked at it as "Getting my body mangled". |
|
|
|
Post by jrk5150 on Apr 11, 2017 12:51:45 GMT -6
Although he's a long-snapper so he's not getting his body mangled. If he was a "regular" player I'd probably think differently... :-) Never looked at it as "Getting my body mangled". Sorry, that's the basketball player in me. I got some letters to play college football, but I thought you had to be nuts to do that. :-) I asked him after his freshman season (he's a soph now) whether, after spending a season with them, he thought he could bulk up and play with those guys. He was like "you mean play on the O-line or something? Oh, hell no. Absolutely not. Those guys are huge." He's 6'1", 230 lbs. Smallest guy on their OL is 6'4" 280 lbs. So yeah, I see his point. He works with the LB's during spring practice for some of the tackling drills. Last spring he was pretty funny about how much he was hurting. He was on the OL in HS, so he hadn't really tackled anyone seriously in years. Frankly, I am in awe of the kid - he goes out there every day, is in the weight room, does the conditioning, knowing he most likely will never see the field. Granted, his practices during the season are pretty light, but still. |
|
|
|
Post by coachchambers on Apr 14, 2017 14:42:35 GMT -6
www.gobigrecruiting.com/recruiting101/football/positional_guidelines/quarterbackWe're hanging this up in our weight room to remind our players that you don't just wake up one day and realize you're a Division I athlete! If you're a great teammate, great student, and attend all of the weight room sessions you will go as far as your talent will take you! I recommend having any player read this who suffers from "D1 Bound" syndrome. I like the message being portrayed, and I agree with it. But this is like that chart that tells you if you are under weight, overweight. or obese. I'm not disagreeing with the message, and I agree with why it would go in your weight room and i agree that for you to get there you must work. |
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Apr 15, 2017 11:26:29 GMT -6
Like Urban Meyer said in one of his latest videos, "If you want to be recruited by Ohio State, go and be the best football player on your high school football team." This video is almost as bad as the recruiting sites in creating false hope. I get what he's saying but in reality that's not the way it works. Sure if OSU is interested in you and recruiting you then what he says is true but I bet I couldn't even get the recruiting coordinators 3rd assistant to call me back. I mean come on how many best players on their high school team even get sniffed by a D1 school. Again I get what he's saying but the delivery is a bit off. |
|
|
|
Post by Coach Vint on Apr 15, 2017 11:59:42 GMT -6
I simply tell them: Here is what Division 1 coaches look for. I give them the ht/wt/speed requirements, grade and test score requirements, and then compare their numbers. I never tell them "you can't be D1." I ask them, do you meet the baseline requirements? If not, then you better be wiling to grow/get stronger/faster, etc. Then we come up with a plan. I tell them the truth. It is a long shot for any kid to make it, and it will be even longer shot for someone who is your height, weight, etc. But if that is your goal, it starts with being your best everyday. Are you willing to do the work? Do I have your permission to coach you to get there? I tell them the truth about how hard it will be, and that chances are it most likely won't happen. But I tell them lets work as hard as we can, and we will end up at the right level. I have every kid in my position group fill in a sheet I call the "End Game of Life." I stole the format from Hugh Freeze at Ole Miss. This helps me to know what their goals our in the classroom, football, and life. I also learn what keeps them from achieving their goals (Junk Box). I teach them how to set goals and develop a process for achieving goals. I meet with each kid for 15 minutes to go over this sheet. I have 19 offensive lineman this spring, and I will sit down with four a day after practice for 5 days. I want them to have big, unrealistic goals. It gives us a unified point to push them toward. Here is a link to the document. This might give you some ideas on how to put one together for your program. drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLvZUVKp_gITmxKNGh1V3NlN0U/view?usp=sharingWe are very proactive with parents and kids on the recruiting process and the realities if it. But hell, if a kid doesn't think he can be x,y,z, he never will. |
|
