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Post by bigmoot on Mar 30, 2017 18:43:42 GMT -6
I've read several times on here about the benefits of 2 platooning.
My question is how have guys at small schools done this. Has anyone been succesfull. We average around around 35 guys. After drawing up the starting D, there's not much left to build an O with.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 30, 2017 19:04:35 GMT -6
At a big school I was only able to 2 platoon fully 1 time in 20 years there and 6 as the head before that. At a small school now (this fall) I just don't see it happening. I hope I can put any kind of decent scout team out there.
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Post by jg78 on Mar 30, 2017 20:45:30 GMT -6
This would be hard to do in an average small school situation for a couple of reasons:
1) You're not likely to have 22 kids you can depend on to be starters and a few more to be key backups. To have a good team about 80% of your players would have to be at least serviceable on the field, not just bodies. I think most small school coaches would tell you that once you take away your first 11-15 it's hard enough to put together a decent scout team with the rest, much less a solid starting group.
2) Most small schools have a few players who are significantly better than the rest and it's hard to limit those guys to one side of the ball completely. You might try to spell them when you can and may even start a couple just on one side of the ball if you have above average talent and depth, but when it gets to crunch time and you absolutely have to score or stop someone you're going to need your best 11 out there. That one-way stud RB who's a better LB than anyone on D is going to have to strap it on when the other team is shoving it down your throat on their way to scoring the winning TD.
I'm sure a few teams with 35 players have managed to two platoon, but I bet any examples had more than their share of studs. It's not a sustainable model at an average school with average players under average circumstances.
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Post by funkfriss on Mar 30, 2017 21:55:07 GMT -6
Never seen a small school completely two-platoon. There isn't a coach around who will say he doesn't want 22 starters, but it never happens. Inevitably there's a Jimmy and a Joe who at 70% are better than 100% of Timmy and Todd.
That said, we have gone to two platooning our coaches, which I love. I will caution though, you'd better have all of your coaches on board, knowledgeable, and capable.
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Post by macdiiddy on Mar 31, 2017 6:38:10 GMT -6
What are we considering a "small school" because that is fairly subjective, especially state to state.
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Post by bigmoot on Mar 31, 2017 6:45:09 GMT -6
i would consider small schools (in my state) 250-450 students. Around 40 players a year.
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Post by bigmoot on Mar 31, 2017 6:47:21 GMT -6
It does get really hard at this level to 2 platoon. I am just wondering if anybody has done is successfully. About the best i have ever been able to manage in having the OL only play one way or atleast only be a backup on D. That way they get more time in indy/funds and can be pulled aside to steal group time.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 31, 2017 7:24:25 GMT -6
40 players in the total program? or 40 players on the varsity?
We have around 90 players in our program, 9-12, and average around mid-30's on the varsity. We have a way to basically 2-platoon with a handful of crossovers. It is all in how you set up your practice time. The goal is to maximize reps in practice so that the "2nd tier" player (the guy that would be the backup) can get enough time to be on par with the guy that was the starter. Now, that "original" starter may take on an even greater role on his 1-side of the ball and simply crossover to the other side in spots.
If you keep your practice time the same - giving each kid the same amount of time on offense as defense - then it won't work. If you adjust the practice so that your "offense primary" or "offense only" kids are getting significantly more time on offense then you have a chance.
I am actually speaking on this subject at a clinic later this spring. Once my presentation/notes are done I'll try to remember to post them.
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Post by joelee on Mar 31, 2017 8:05:49 GMT -6
I was at a small school as an assistant(1a smallest in the state). We had a 45 man roster 9-12. The first and main thing is to try to strictly platoon your linemen. They are bigger and get tired faster. Linemen strictly played 1 way. Its HS so its really a game of maximizing 2-3 studs if you have them and everyone else is a soldier. We played a lot of kids at all the other positions. Early in the season when it is hot we played some kids we really didn't want to play. (In KY the district games are later in the season) By the time the games that count rolled around we had developed some soldiers who could be a cog and allow the studs to do their thing. We were never able to FULLY platoon practice or FULLY platoon the skill kids but we did play about 23 kids in varsity games every week. #1 I admit we had 3 skill studs. #2 we went runner-up, semifinal, champions in the 3 years we had those studs. #3 Then a funny thing happened the year after they graduated. After years of playing a bunch of kids a bunch of snaps they went semi finals again the year after the studs left.
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Post by funkfriss on Mar 31, 2017 10:01:30 GMT -6
I was at a small school as an assistant(1a smallest in the state). We had a 45 man roster 9-12. The first and main thing is to try to strictly platoon your linemen. They are bigger and get tired faster. Linemen strictly played 1 way. Its HS so its really a game of maximizing 2-3 studs if you have them and everyone else is a soldier. We played a lot of kids at all the other positions. Early in the season when it is hot we played some kids we really didn't want to play. (In KY the district games are later in the season) By the time the games that count rolled around we had developed some soldiers who could be a cog and allow the studs to do their thing. We were never able to FULLY platoon practice or FULLY platoon the skill kids but we did play about 23 kids in varsity games every week. #1 I admit we had 3 skill studs. #2 we went runner-up, semifinal, champions in the 3 years we had those studs. #3 Then a funny thing happened the year after they graduated. After years of playing a bunch of kids a bunch of snaps they went semi finals again the year after the studs left. This is the absolute blueprint for success. To me there are two types of successful programs. The ones that get a great crop of kids year in, year out. For whatever reason, their community is blessed with athletes. The other successful programs are the ones who develop their kids consistently. They get everybody playing time at the JH/FS/JV levels, get kids in the weight room, and develop as many players as they can. Getting 20+ kids meaningful playing time in Varsity games every year leads to programs that rebuild rather than waiting for another good class to reload. We have never fully 2-platooned and I'm sure never will, but we try to get as many starters as possible without compromising our chances to win. It's all subjective. We start with the QB and OL and makes sure we have our best players there. We never compromise these positions. If we have an offensive playmaker, we'll also give preference to him on offense. Other than that we build our Defense with the best players we can. Any leftover skill players will fill in as WR/TE/RBs, again, assuming there isn't a tremendous drop off in production.
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Post by jg78 on Mar 31, 2017 10:12:36 GMT -6
If I were trying get as many players playing both ways as possible I would give the offense the QB and RB and the defense would take priority on everything else. The reason being it's harder to hide people on defense.
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Post by bigmoot on Mar 31, 2017 11:30:00 GMT -6
40 players in the total program? or 40 players on the varsity? We have around 90 players in our program, 9-12, and average around mid-30's on the varsity. We have a way to basically 2-platoon with a handful of crossovers. It is all in how you set up your practice time. The goal is to maximize reps in practice so that the "2nd tier" player (the guy that would be the backup) can get enough time to be on par with the guy that was the starter. Now, that "original" starter may take on an even greater role on his 1-side of the ball and simply crossover to the other side in spots. If you keep your practice time the same - giving each kid the same amount of time on offense as defense - then it won't work. If you adjust the practice so that your "offense primary" or "offense only" kids are getting significantly more time on offense then you have a chance. I am actually speaking on this subject at a clinic later this spring. Once my presentation/notes are done I'll try to remember to post them. 40 9-12
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 1, 2017 13:45:21 GMT -6
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Post by **** on Apr 1, 2017 14:11:00 GMT -6
The chances of you being able to fully 2 platoon with 40 guys 9-12 is almost impossible.
You might be able to have a handful of one way kids but with that small of numbers a full 2 platoon is not going to happen.
We have similar numbers and might have 5? one way starters but those kids are immediate back ups if anybody on offense goes down.
When you have legit numbers 90+ kids 9-12 you can legitimately 2 platoon. IMO put your best DUDE at QB/RB (depends on your system) then put the next 11 best players on defense.
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Post by s73 on Apr 1, 2017 19:58:04 GMT -6
I've read several times on here about the benefits of 2 platooning. My question is how have guys at small schools done this. Has anyone been succesfull. We average around around 35 guys. After drawing up the starting D, there's not much left to build an O with. IMO, U gotta be able to put guys on the field. We are in the same boat as you & DO NOT have the talent to platoon. I think Unless you are UNUSUALLY talented at schools our size it just ain't gonna happen. JMO.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 2, 2017 7:18:30 GMT -6
Very rare in 1a and 2a ball in Illinois (the two smallest classes) to find teams that platoon. In fact, the best players seldom leave the field. Last year's 1a champ did platoon more than most (they only had 4-5 kids play both ways) but they had an unusually talented junior and senior class. They were loaded with tough and talented kids. Definitely the exception.
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Post by Sonofahitch on Apr 3, 2017 19:34:42 GMT -6
Never seen a small school completely two-platoon. There isn't a coach around who will say he doesn't want 22 starters, but it never happens. Inevitably there's a Jimmy and a Joe who at 70% are better than 100% of Timmy and Todd. That said, we have gone to two platooning our coaches, which I love. I will caution though, you'd better have all of your coaches on board, knowledgeable, and capable. We two-platooned our staff two years ago, and we're going to do it again this season. We don't have enough 10-12 graders to two-platoon our players (approx. 45-50), so we're going to practice all three levels (frosh, JV, varsity) together. During Indy time, Freshman and JV kids will be on one side of the ball and Varsity kids will work the other side. In group and team periods, we'll be able to get everyone work - again, Freshman & JV kids together, Varsity players together. (Obviously we'll pull an occasional sophomore up with the older guys.)
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Post by cujocoach on Apr 3, 2017 20:24:15 GMT -6
We are shrinking. Having to move away from two platoon. So what does your practice look like if you don't or can't two platoon? Assuming all or most of the kids need to know both sides of the ball? Any help would be great!
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Post by cwaltsmith on Apr 4, 2017 7:35:50 GMT -6
I like to try and start 22 if possible and if not... as many as possible. But imho 2 platooning with 40 is near impossible. I like having as many "starters" as possible, it helps with buy in and gets more kids out. However, in nut cutting time... best kids better be out there
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Post by vanden48 on Apr 4, 2017 13:02:14 GMT -6
I am running into the problem like everyone does of having to replace a 1st team all-state QB and 1st team all-state WR. We don't have guys coming up that will replace them on either side of the ball. They both played DB as well. If I can replace those two players with 4 players, we might be able to come close to replacing their production on both sides of the ball.
I love to play 22 guys, but if I have some studs, I'm keeping them on the field. Its not college ball, its high school. And even in college, if you have a Jabrill Peppers or Adoree Jackson, you find a way to keep him on the field.
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Post by kerrmichaelc74 on Apr 5, 2017 8:52:55 GMT -6
40 players in the total program? or 40 players on the varsity? We have around 90 players in our program, 9-12, and average around mid-30's on the varsity. We have a way to basically 2-platoon with a handful of crossovers. It is all in how you set up your practice time. The goal is to maximize reps in practice so that the "2nd tier" player (the guy that would be the backup) can get enough time to be on par with the guy that was the starter. Now, that "original" starter may take on an even greater role on his 1-side of the ball and simply crossover to the other side in spots. If you keep your practice time the same - giving each kid the same amount of time on offense as defense - then it won't work. If you adjust the practice so that your "offense primary" or "offense only" kids are getting significantly more time on offense then you have a chance. I am actually speaking on this subject at a clinic later this spring. Once my presentation/notes are done I'll try to remember to post them. I would be very interested in how you go about this. We moved to a complete 2 platoon system last year and practiced guys only one way. What we determined was that overall the 2 platoon worked but we had to find away to get some guys ready to play both sides of the ball when needed. This puts us in a practice dilemma, how do we get those guys 'offense primary' guys enough reps on defense so they can be ready if needed.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 5, 2017 14:22:14 GMT -6
40 players in the total program? or 40 players on the varsity? We have around 90 players in our program, 9-12, and average around mid-30's on the varsity. We have a way to basically 2-platoon with a handful of crossovers. It is all in how you set up your practice time. The goal is to maximize reps in practice so that the "2nd tier" player (the guy that would be the backup) can get enough time to be on par with the guy that was the starter. Now, that "original" starter may take on an even greater role on his 1-side of the ball and simply crossover to the other side in spots. If you keep your practice time the same - giving each kid the same amount of time on offense as defense - then it won't work. If you adjust the practice so that your "offense primary" or "offense only" kids are getting significantly more time on offense then you have a chance. I am actually speaking on this subject at a clinic later this spring. Once my presentation/notes are done I'll try to remember to post them. I would be very interested in how you go about this. We moved to a complete 2 platoon system last year and practiced guys only one way. What we determined was that overall the 2 platoon worked but we had to find away to get some guys ready to play both sides of the ball when needed. This puts us in a practice dilemma, how do we get those guys 'offense primary' guys enough reps on defense so they can be ready if needed. Here's the short, short, abridged version... Monday: * during Pre-practice & periods 1-2 (or whatever you decide) the offense primary guys that also play defense will go with the defense. * starting period 3 it's business as usual. * we have 2 to 3 periods of "good on good" to thud, so we script the personnel being used each series to help get guys any crossover reps * after practice all defense primary guys that play offense will stay after for 15 minutes for any stuff we might be adding Tuesday: * same as Monday except now those defense primary guys start with the offense. likewise, after practice the offense primary will stay with defense for some type of stuff Wednesday: * We do the more traditional system where everyone is on offense for, say, 8 periods, then we flip and everyone is on defense for 8 (or whatever number of periods you wish to do) Thursday: * We do the proverbial "play the game" or "kick the field" type stuff so it's pretty much like a dress rehearsal. We make sure to include situations where we are using crossovers occasionally within the practice. Above is the most basic practice format we use. However, throughout the year we rotate between a couple of others based on what we need - i.e. we might extend the crossover from 1-2 all the way to 6 periods, etc.
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Post by pistolwhipped on Apr 7, 2017 9:30:49 GMT -6
Had an epiphany last night.
Have about 35-40 total players in the entire Varsity/JV program grades 9-12 (yeah I know...you're jealous right?)
Sat down with my assistant coach and we held a platoon draft of sorts. White Offensive Coaches Red Defensive Coaches
We have two ACL recoveries coming back (QB--White and Mike--Red)- they will only focus on their side of the ball. Round 1 White---best OL/DL Red---best DL/OL comparable Round 2 Red---best C/WR White---best WR/C comparable Round 3 White---best RB/LB Red---best LB/RB comparable
we went down the list and drafted every single player on the roster while snaking the draft. After we were finished, we realized that in practice we can always go "good on good" because the comparable will be facing each other on a consistent basis. The best WR will always be matched against the best CB and so forth. This forces that 6 and 7th Lineman to get better by playing with good players around him instead of just the scraps all on defense when I go #1 Offense.
Both teams will receive O/D indy on Tuesday and Wednesdays Red will receive Team D on Tuesday....Team O on Wednesday White will receive Team O on Tuesday.....Team D on Wednesday
I think this puts us in the best competitive situations and sets us up better to develop kids instead of just riding our horses all the time.
I'm sure someone else has already done this or spoken about it, we just fell into it last night and got pretty excited at the possibilities.
Had to share.
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Post by coachdlo on Apr 13, 2017 7:14:06 GMT -6
Had an epiphany last night. Have about 35-40 total players in the entire Varsity/JV program grades 9-12 (yeah I know...you're jealous right?) Sat down with my assistant coach and we held a platoon draft of sorts. White Offensive Coaches Red Defensive Coaches We have two ACL recoveries coming back (QB--White and Mike--Red)- they will only focus on their side of the ball. Round 1 White---best OL/DL Red---best DL/OL comparable Round 2 Red---best C/WR White---best WR/C comparable Round 3 White---best RB/LB Red---best LB/RB comparable we went down the list and drafted every single player on the roster while snaking the draft. After we were finished, we realized that in practice we can always go "good on good" because the comparable will be facing each other on a consistent basis. The best WR will always be matched against the best CB and so forth. This forces that 6 and 7th Lineman to get better by playing with good players around him instead of just the scraps all on defense when I go #1 Offense. Both teams will receive O/D indy on Tuesday and Wednesdays Red will receive Team D on Tuesday....Team O on Wednesday White will receive Team O on Tuesday.....Team D on Wednesday I think this puts us in the best competitive situations and sets us up better to develop kids instead of just riding our horses all the time. I'm sure someone else has already done this or spoken about it, we just fell into it last night and got pretty excited at the possibilities. Had to share. Coach, I really like this idea. What are your thoughts on this though..... When will your 1st team guys rep together as a unit? For instance your OL or Starting QB with startin WRs. Let me know your thoughts!
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Post by mgrounds on Apr 13, 2017 7:59:00 GMT -6
We have been a two platoon program organization without two platooning. We have a few guys who must be 0.5 or 0.25 players. I have a presentation i used at our state clinic a few weeks back. It lays out the process of how and the why we did it. Been big benefits. Not sure how to attach it here but will send to anyone who wants it. coachgrounds@gmail.com
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Post by pistolwhipped on Apr 13, 2017 16:24:26 GMT -6
Had an epiphany last night. Have about 35-40 total players in the entire Varsity/JV program grades 9-12 (yeah I know...you're jealous right?) Sat down with my assistant coach and we held a platoon draft of sorts. White Offensive Coaches Red Defensive Coaches We have two ACL recoveries coming back (QB--White and Mike--Red)- they will only focus on their side of the ball. Round 1 White---best OL/DL Red---best DL/OL comparable Round 2 Red---best C/WR White---best WR/C comparable Round 3 White---best RB/LB Red---best LB/RB comparable we went down the list and drafted every single player on the roster while snaking the draft. After we were finished, we realized that in practice we can always go "good on good" because the comparable will be facing each other on a consistent basis. The best WR will always be matched against the best CB and so forth. This forces that 6 and 7th Lineman to get better by playing with good players around him instead of just the scraps all on defense when I go #1 Offense. Both teams will receive O/D indy on Tuesday and Wednesdays Red will receive Team D on Tuesday....Team O on Wednesday White will receive Team O on Tuesday.....Team D on Wednesday I think this puts us in the best competitive situations and sets us up better to develop kids instead of just riding our horses all the time. I'm sure someone else has already done this or spoken about it, we just fell into it last night and got pretty excited at the possibilities. Had to share. Coach, I really like this idea. What are your thoughts on this though..... When will your 1st team guys rep together as a unit? For instance your OL or Starting QB with startin WRs. Let me know your thoughts! Good thoughts.... Likely small period on TU/WED and all of Thursday. Theyll also be getting reps with each other during Indy.
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benloe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 186
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Post by benloe on Apr 16, 2017 9:26:55 GMT -6
I've read several times on here about the benefits of 2 platooning. My question is how have guys at small schools done this. Has anyone been succesfull. We average around around 35 guys. After drawing up the starting D, there's not much left to build an O with. We have about the same numbers, and we two-platoon everybody except the linemen. There are not enough big guys to go around, so big guys play both ways (we have to do a rotation to keep them fresh). Our defensive system depends on the big guys to stop the run. If I need somebody more athletic to get to the passer, we'll bring a linebacker. Our experience shows that our best dudes generally perform better when they can stay fresh, and the not so great players get better at their jobs when they get to focus on getting better at fewer tasks.
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benloe
Sophomore Member
Posts: 186
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Post by benloe on Apr 16, 2017 9:32:09 GMT -6
I should add that we cross-train some players... Our players primarily focus on one side of the ball, but we do cross-train enough players to the point where they can do an adequate job on the other side of the ball if a player goes down.
It's important to keep your x's and o's simple, so that you won't have to commit too much time to the cross-training.
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Post by s73 on Apr 16, 2017 12:48:46 GMT -6
We are shrinking. Having to move away from two platoon. So what does your practice look like if you don't or can't two platoon? Assuming all or most of the kids need to know both sides of the ball? Any help would be great! For us, We practice defense on Mondays and ST's. We practice Offense on Tuesdays and ST's The same goes for Wed & Thurs. Made the Thursday practices much more like regular practices except we scale back the physical aspects (bags, uppers only, handhelds, quick whistles, etc.). each practice lasts about 2h15 m and we feel like we get quite a bit down w/o any long drawn out practices. We give our kids Saturdays off.
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