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Post by carookie on Mar 11, 2017 17:47:09 GMT -6
Outside of holding a study hall and running grade checks, what does your program specifically do to improve academics? And how do you know that what you are doing actually improves academics?
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Post by Chris Clement on Mar 11, 2017 18:46:07 GMT -6
Frankly, I've come to stop believing in study hall. We do it, but it's mostly inertia and because parents want to hear it, but I've looked and found no evidence supporting it. It's a hassle, kids who are going to study will study, kids who won't will screw around. Maybe helps a little but I doubt you could really show any effect size.
What helps most is being on top of the kids who won't study on their own, and making it clear that you will help them as much as they help themselves. I've spent a lot of time teaching calculus and orgo and editing papers, but they have to come to me and show that they made an effort.
If y u have some kind of eligibility rule you can make the solid point that no matter how strong or fast they are they won't play if they're not eligible, so the priorities should be pretty clear. Especially with the kids that like to talk about "grinding." I usually hit them with something like "you're not 'grinding' in the gym, you're having fun. You're doing the thing you're good at because you were born s genetically gifted athlete. 'Grinding' is doing the stuff you need to do when it's not fun and it's not easy. For you that means doing your homework."
If they're known to skip class I've made them text me a selfie with their prof.
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Post by bigmoot on Mar 11, 2017 20:29:28 GMT -6
I have found losing playing time is the greatest motivator.
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Post by 60zgo on Mar 11, 2017 21:53:46 GMT -6
Seriously. Don't play them. It's amazing how motivated they become.
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Post by carookie on Mar 11, 2017 22:45:37 GMT -6
For those of you who are writing "not to play them" how have you been able to show that this helps improve academics of those who don't play?
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Post by calicoachh on Mar 11, 2017 23:53:20 GMT -6
homework, homework, homework!!! If a guy does his homework, he gets the points in class for doing the homework, it shows the teacher that he is trying, and "gasp" he actually learns the material. the way i focused on this was two fold. first i had the players fill out a homework log(they have to write down the assignment and when it is due) All the teacher has to do is initial that the student wrote the assignment down correctly. Then the student brings the completed assignment and his log to a coach every morning. If the homework isn't completed, that player does not get to work out that day. you do no good for the team if you are ineligible. The kids hate not being allowed to work out! they hate it. i make a big deal about how they are letting the team down by not working out, and that other guys are getting better and will take their job. i'm not worrying as much about playing time as these habits have to be developed in the offseason.
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Post by agap on Mar 12, 2017 1:29:40 GMT -6
If players had a failing grade, we made them miss practice until they got the grade up. Our first year, we had two players miss a couple weeks and we didn't have anyone else with a failing grade for the next few years.
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Post by rsmith627 on Mar 12, 2017 4:58:24 GMT -6
homework, homework, homework!!! If a guy does his homework, he gets the points in class for doing the homework, it shows the teacher that he is trying, and "gasp" he actually learns the material. the way i focused on this was two fold. first i had the players fill out a homework log(they have to write down the assignment and when it is due) All the teacher has to do is initial that the student wrote the assignment down correctly. Then the student brings the completed assignment and his log to a coach every morning. If the homework isn't completed, that player does not get to work out that day. you do no good for the team if you are ineligible. The kids hate not being allowed to work out! they hate it. i make a big deal about how they are letting the team down by not working out, and that other guys are getting better and will take their job. i'm not worrying as much about playing time as these habits have to be developed in the offseason. This seems like a good idea. At my high school homework isn't graded? Many of our departments do this but the biggest one is math. The kids get hours of homework a night, it counts for nothing, so they don't do it. Now they fail the tests because they didn't prepare, but being 15-17 year olds they lack the ability to see long-term consequences. Your log idea may give them at least some level of accountability for doing that work.
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tland
Freshmen Member
Posts: 62
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Post by tland on Mar 12, 2017 8:36:02 GMT -6
I get cutting the playing time, but how do you handle this during the off-season, how about with kids playing other sports, or the one's who don't come to your team workouts? As far as my last question, I understand the old "they won't play if they aren't showing up" but they're still on the team and bringing down the Team GPA. And I'd rather find a way to help the kid then just cut them loose and watch them fail out of school. I'd like to find a way to reach the kids that seem to detach from the team from Nov. till June.
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Post by 60zgo on Mar 12, 2017 8:43:53 GMT -6
For those of you who are writing "not to play them" how have you been able to show that this helps improve academics of those who don't play? It hasn't. Some kids are going to be motivated by playing on a team and playing time. Some won't. And when I say "not play them" I mean they don't dress or participate in any team activities. I'm working in Charter School Land now so we have some better tools and systems for monitoring grades and academic support than your typical high school.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Mar 12, 2017 10:01:57 GMT -6
Email your athletes teachers AFTER the season to check on them.
I think it's good to keep tabs on your boys and make sure the rest of the year is successful for them. It also demonstrates to staff that you aren't only concerned about grades "in season"...hopefully it will pay dividends next fall too.
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Post by groundchuck on Mar 12, 2017 10:07:45 GMT -6
We talk about grades and have GPA Goals. We implemented a study hall on Thursday. I did weekly grade checks all year long. Then at the end of each quarter I sent out post cards to all the boys who made the honor roll with the Smarties candy. Corny but it shows effort on my part and it's funny. To the kids failing classes I send them a different letter.
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 12, 2017 12:07:34 GMT -6
I did a grade check on Thursday...told the team that if they wanted to lift weights (which they all do) it was their "ticket" to the weight room the next morning. About half of them didn't have a complete grade check. So I told them they get to do nothing. And while everyone else lifted...the ones without a grade check stood and watched the others lift.
I told them..."if you don't have grades you don't get anything in life. So...you don't get to do anything...but watch everyone pass you by".
We'll see how that goes down Monday. Because if they didn't have it Friday...and they don't have it Monday...I'll repeat my steps.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 13, 2017 7:47:03 GMT -6
Can you get a couple of volunteer tutors for study hall, and then be active about making sure they're working? Require them to do homework in study hall, and walk around and check it while they're in there. Do grade checks, and anyone struggling HAS to meet with the tutor in study hall once a week or whatever. There still may be kids who screw around, but you'll get a few of them to do work they otherwise wouldn't have done.
College basketball, we had a mandatory study hall. It did give an opportunity for some of us to do some work in a quiet library vs. the noise and distractions of a dorm. Plenty of guys using it as nap time as well. However, as freshman we had a mandatory weekly appointment in the writing lab that was basically a forced tutoring session. That was HUGELY beneficial. You couldn't screw off, the tutors were all over you. So I'm thinking something like that as part of a study hall might make it that much better.
The problem is when you dangle something in front of them, it's not necessarily in their minds at the time they need to be doing the work. That's not going to stop the procrastinators. You want to figure out how to get them to do the work when they have the time. Pretty much forcing them to open the book and take out their work will capture that many more kids who just need that kick in the ass not to "do it later".
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barlow
Sophomore Member
Posts: 104
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Post by barlow on Mar 13, 2017 8:44:10 GMT -6
Honestly study hall is the KEY component. They have to show a yet to be completed assignment at the start and it must be completed or very nearly completed before they can come down to whatever practice is at that time of year.
We've had almost straight F kids become A&B or C&B kids. They have no push at home to do homework, playing time doesn't mean enough because they would intrinsically motivate themselves to be eligible on their own.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 13, 2017 9:16:10 GMT -6
We do weekly grade checks on Monday. They aren't eligible to play that week if they have any Fs or their GPA is below a 2.0. They still have to attend practice that week: they are not allowed to skip to make up work. They can come in before school to get their stuff done. That is essentially "study hall". This has been the most effective way to hold the kids accountable.
In my HC gig, kids that were failing classes had to miss practice for a mandatory study hall after school, as per the athletic handbook. This p-ssed me off to no end because these absences couldn't be counted as unexcused so the kids were still eligible to play that week. They didn't do their work in school, practices were f-ed if enough were failing, and I had parents all over me when I benched them for missing practice.
"YOU CAN'T BENCH THEM FOR TRYING TO GET THEIR GRADES UP! GRADES COME FIRST!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 9:43:49 GMT -6
Honestly study hall is the KEY component. They have to show a yet to be completed assignment at the start and it must be completed or very nearly completed before they can come down to whatever practice is at that time of year. We've had almost straight F kids become A&B or C&B kids. They have no push at home to do homework, playing time doesn't mean enough because they would intrinsically motivate themselves to be eligible on their own. We do an organized study hall. We try to split the kids up in to managable groups where they can fit in to a classroom. If we cannot make that happen, we usually just meet in the cafeteria. Students are to complete homework during the 30 minute period we spend in the study hall. If a student needs help in a class, they are to report to us first so we can time stamp a pass to their teacher. Once they are done, or 30 minutes is up, the pass gets signed and brought back to us. Takes some work on our part, but we went from a carousel of inelligible students down to less than 5 total per season.
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barlow
Sophomore Member
Posts: 104
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Post by barlow on Mar 13, 2017 12:37:56 GMT -6
We do weekly grade checks on Monday. They aren't eligible to play that week if they have any Fs or their GPA is below a 2.0. They still have to attend practice that week: they are not allowed to skip to make up work. They can come in before school to get their stuff done. That is essentially "study hall". This has been the most effective way to hold the kids accountable. In my HC gig, kids that were failing classes had to miss practice for a mandatory study hall after school, as per the athletic handbook. This p-ssed me off to no end because these absences couldn't be counted as unexcused so the kids were still eligible to play that week. They didn't do their work in school, practices were f-ed if enough were failing, and I had parents all over me when I benched them for missing practice. "YOU CAN'T BENCH THEM FOR TRYING TO GET THEIR GRADES UP! GRADES COME FIRST!" The mindset is if they NEED study hall they wouldn't be much use to you on Friday if they didn't go after school cause they'd be ineligible. If they go early on they can get in a groove where they don't always have to go as the season gets going. Plus they do come to practice as soon as they finish the assignment. Ironically if those parents helped the kids enough at home they wouldn't need to go to study hall haha
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Post by coachcb on Mar 13, 2017 12:44:01 GMT -6
We do weekly grade checks on Monday. They aren't eligible to play that week if they have any Fs or their GPA is below a 2.0. They still have to attend practice that week: they are not allowed to skip to make up work. They can come in before school to get their stuff done. That is essentially "study hall". This has been the most effective way to hold the kids accountable. In my HC gig, kids that were failing classes had to miss practice for a mandatory study hall after school, as per the athletic handbook. This p-ssed me off to no end because these absences couldn't be counted as unexcused so the kids were still eligible to play that week. They didn't do their work in school, practices were f-ed if enough were failing, and I had parents all over me when I benched them for missing practice. "YOU CAN'T BENCH THEM FOR TRYING TO GET THEIR GRADES UP! GRADES COME FIRST!" The mindset is if they NEED study hall they wouldn't be much use to you on Friday if they didn't go after school cause they'd be ineligible. If they go early on they can get in a groove where they don't always have to go as the season gets going. Plus they do come to practice as soon as they finish the assignment. Ironically if those parents helped the kids enough at home they wouldn't need to go to study hall haha That was the problem: they were still eligible to play on Friday night. They had to attend to mandatory study halls during the grade check. Eligibility was determined quarter by quarter: if you failed any classes at the end of fourth quarter, you were ineligible for the entire football season. But, they tried to use the study halls as a deterrent during the season.
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barlow
Sophomore Member
Posts: 104
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Post by barlow on Mar 13, 2017 14:00:18 GMT -6
The mindset is if they NEED study hall they wouldn't be much use to you on Friday if they didn't go after school cause they'd be ineligible. If they go early on they can get in a groove where they don't always have to go as the season gets going. Plus they do come to practice as soon as they finish the assignment. Ironically if those parents helped the kids enough at home they wouldn't need to go to study hall haha That was the problem: they were still eligible to play on Friday night. They had to attend to mandatory study halls during the grade check. Eligibility was determined quarter by quarter: if you failed any classes at the end of fourth quarter, you were ineligible for the entire football season. But, they tried to use the study halls as a deterrent during the season. That's kinda a moment where I have to put the "Building Good Men" hat on and accept that they are going to have improved academics which is important for their future.
Idk your schedule, but if it is a decent amount of kids who are impactful to your team, could you move your practice start time to a later point?
We do have a miss practice you miss a quarter policy, but coming to practice after finishing our study hall doesn't count toward that. This school I am at now had been a traditional loser which all players are gone after the first grade cut came out. We HAVE to put academic policies in place because these kids culturally as a school had not been achieving much in academics on their own.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 13, 2017 14:10:38 GMT -6
That was the problem: they were still eligible to play on Friday night. They had to attend to mandatory study halls during the grade check. Eligibility was determined quarter by quarter: if you failed any classes at the end of fourth quarter, you were ineligible for the entire football season. But, they tried to use the study halls as a deterrent during the season. That's kinda a moment where I have to put the "Building Good Men" hat on and accept that they are going to have improved academics which is important for their future.
Idk your schedule, but if it is a decent amount of kids who are impactful to your team, could you move your practice start time to a later point?
We do have a miss practice you miss a quarter policy, but coming to practice after finishing our study hall doesn't count toward that. This school I am at now had been a traditional loser which all players are gone after the first grade cut came out. We HAVE to put academic policies in place because these kids culturally as a school had not been achieving much in academics on their own.
I would have been okay with it if I could have benched the kids that missed practice, regardless of whether they would help us or not. I did so in our second or third game of the season as our starting FB/ILB and QB/CB missed three practices to write a paper that they blew off in class. It turned into a giant sh-t show with the AD basically echoing what the parents said. He saw my point of view but tapped out on it and didn't back me up. I benched kids for it throughout the season and it was a fight every time. I asked for some sort of compromise to be written into the athletic handbook but they wouldn't touch it.
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Post by 546954695469 on Mar 13, 2017 19:02:24 GMT -6
Don't intend to sound lazy or uncaring here, but had a three-decade stint as a HFC/AD and never had a study hall nor went too far out of our way to worry about grades. Now, we did visit with faculty members and we would get online to check the grades of our kids and we'd visit with those having difficulty but I always thought that any kid who cared so little about his "career" and/or his teammates that he would not do his homework or study for a test, etc deserved to fail... HS kids need to grow up at some point. We held their hands at times but I'll be danged if I'm going to spend any time in season sitting in a study hall prodding teenagers to do their schoolwork. Never had any real issues with players bring ineligible, either.
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Post by 546954695469 on Mar 13, 2017 19:05:40 GMT -6
Honestly, your coaching staff's relationship with the faculty is very important. If teachers know that they can depend upon you and your staff for help, they'll be inclined to tell you when your players are struggling in class. Always worked for us.
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Post by macdiiddy on Mar 13, 2017 19:57:20 GMT -6
There needs to be some sort of positive or negative reinforcement/punishment. Its simple classical conditioning. The problem with Quarterly Eligible/Ineligible is that the kids get to keep practicing bad habits such as not studying, doing their homework, sleeping through classes etc.
Some kids just hate school work, I know I certainly did. But habits need to be taught and reinforced. That is why I feel the ticket into the weight room idea is a good one. It immediately gives the kid feedback that if you want to do A you need to do B. It starts to instill good habits.
You can say if you dont do all the things you need to do in all your classes then sometime in October there is going to be consequences but it is too late by then and the damage has been done. Little steps such as Allowing them to weightlift, taking away reps, rewarding them with something weekly if not daily is the way to go IMO.
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Post by newhope on Mar 16, 2017 11:29:03 GMT -6
Outside of what the OP mentioned, we make grades a big part of our out of season accountability/competition program. Along with earning points for increases in main lifts, points for attending workouts, points earned in competitions, etc, we include grades. We also stay on top of their grades through contact with teachers. Any problem in class--not doing work, grades slipping as well as behavior--we want to know about it and we take immediate action.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 13:05:37 GMT -6
Praise grades openly. Recognize students that have all A's and B's. Reward those students with good grades, by either allowing them to half of conditioning, or eat first at team meals, etc.
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Post by mbianco on Mar 20, 2017 19:02:00 GMT -6
Outside of what the OP mentioned, we make grades a big part of our out of season accountability/competition program. Along with earning points for increases in main lifts, points for attending workouts, points earned in competitions, etc, we include grades. We also stay on top of their grades through contact with teachers. Any problem in class--not doing work, grades slipping as well as behavior--we want to know about it and we take immediate action. Can you give an example of taking immediate action
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Post by newhope on Mar 21, 2017 17:41:50 GMT -6
Sure. He's going to see me as quickly as I can get to him. If I'm not in class, I will go to his class as soon as I get the message and we'll have a come to Jesus meeting if needed. If I am, I will get to him at the first opportunity. If he can't straighten out his problems, we'll take further steps. If he needs help, we will get it for him. If he can't behave, we will let him decide if football means enough to him for him to do the right thing. Let me tell you, the last thing one of them wants is to to be doing the wrong thing in class and have me show up at that class.
If I'm going to immediately correct things he's not doing right in practice or in games, then I need to pay the same immediate attention to what's going on in the classroom.
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Post by mbianco on Mar 21, 2017 18:23:33 GMT -6
Thanks
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Post by mbianco on Mar 21, 2017 18:32:17 GMT -6
So based on some of the ideas here I will be giving my "at risk" academic kids a travel sheet. On the days we have weights they will pick up the travel sheet in my office and have each teacher for that day fill it out with information such as homework done, homework tonight, comments, etc. This will be their entry ticket into weight room. No travel sheet equals no weights.
What suggestions do you have if students are failing a class for example? I feel just turning them away from weights without a plan to fix the problem isn't totally productive.
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