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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:05:05 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful.
I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend?
Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids
Also we have been successful over the past several seasons
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 2, 2017 7:13:23 GMT -6
I think thats too much. Pick either before or after. Both is pretty tough. In my experience, what you lose are guys who have football as a second sport but still want to play. Its not their first love but when it gets down to it they can contribute. Case in point, my QB the last two years. In 14.5 games at QB his numbers were comparable to Deshawn Watson in high school. But his first love was basketball. He turned down big time D1 football offers to play basketball and football at a D2 school. If we wanted to be hard, we could have put him in a position to choose and he wouldn't have chose us.
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Post by CS on Mar 2, 2017 7:14:36 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend? Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons My first thought was are those 25 kids that quit ALL turds or are some of them good kids that think football is fun and you sucked that right out of it? We didn't do that much when I played college ball and we were pretty dang good. I would like to know how much better you are truly making these kids?
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:19:02 GMT -6
Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons My first thought was are those 25 kids that quit ALL turds or are some of them good kids that think football is fun and you sucked that right out of it? We didn't do that much when I played college ball and we were pretty dang good. I would like to know how much better you are truly making these kids? The 50 to 25 was a HUGE exaggeration just for a philosophical question. More like 4 or 6 kids that want to smoke weed after school.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:23:56 GMT -6
I think thats too much. Pick either before or after. Both is pretty tough. In my experience, what you lose are guys who have football as a second sport but still want to play. Its not their first love but when it gets down to it they can contribute. Case in point, my QB the last two years. In 14.5 games at QB his numbers were comparable to Deshawn Watson in high school. But his first love was basketball. He turned down big time D1 football offers to play basketball and football at a D2 school. If we wanted to be hard, we could have put him in a position to choose and he wouldn't have chose us. How important is winning or competing? I would love to do less, but this is what is needed for us to even compete. It sounds like you have the luxury of having multisport D1 athletes in your school. We have had 1 D1 player come out of this school in the last 15 years from all sports combine. Last year we beat a team that had 7 D1 players. We are a closed district of "small kids" that play teams full of D1 kids.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2017 7:28:37 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend? Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons What time do your morning sessions start and what time do the afternoon sessions end?
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Post by blb on Mar 2, 2017 7:39:00 GMT -6
How important is winning or competing? I would love to do less, but this is what is needed for us to even compete.
How do you know? Because that's what "everybody else" is doing?
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Post by newt21 on Mar 2, 2017 7:40:09 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend? Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons I think that's an awful lot to ask, however you did say that these were not required but do you give the perception that "if you don't lift you don't play" while saying they're optional. That could be a reason as well that some kids aren't coming out. Having said that, I will NEVER apologize for having high expectations and you shouldn't either. For your philosophical question, I take 25 hard working kids over 50 turds any day of the week, but make sure you look closely to find out if these are turds or just kids that still want to be kids (I'm willing to bet you will find more of these with a few turds sprinkled in).
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:40:30 GMT -6
What time do your morning sessions start and what time do the afternoon sessions end? Our morning sessions run 6:30-7:05. We have a day based on competitive drills. A lot of other physical drills have team building aspects.
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Post by s73 on Mar 2, 2017 7:42:27 GMT -6
One measure I always use is if I do't feel like being there then we're probably doing too much.
I realized years ago how much I HATED the 2nd session of 2 days. Always seemed like the kids were sluggish and dragging which inevitably led to coaches barking. etc. and always seemed to end a positive morning session on a negative note. Hence, I decided to elongate our morning sessions and call it a day.
I'm sure I would feel the same way if I were going in to work on FB in the morning and then again in the afternoon. My point is...if I feel that way then you KNOW the kids are feeling that way. Even the ones who are in full attendance are probably doing it out of a sense of duty but my guess is they would feel relieved if you shut it down.
JMO.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2017 7:47:29 GMT -6
What time do your morning sessions start and what time do the afternoon sessions end? Our morning sessions run 6:30-7:05. We have a day based on competitive drills. A lot of other physical drills have team building aspects. What time are you done in the afternoon?
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:48:21 GMT -6
One measure I always use is if I do't feel like being there then we're probably doing too much. I realized years ago how much I HATED the 2nd session of 2 days. Always seemed like the kids were sluggish and dragging which inevitably led to coaches barking. etc. and always seemed to end a positive morning session on a negative note. Hence, I decided to elongate our morning sessions and call it a day. I'm sure I would feel the same way if I were going in to work on FB in the morning and then again in the afternoon. My point is...if I feel that way then you KNOW the kids are feeling that way. Even the ones who are in full attendance are probably doing it out of a sense of duty but my guess is they would feel relieved if you shut it down. JMO. thank you coach for the insight. We are in the process of finishing our player interviews for our off season. The majority of the players say they enjoy the morning sessions. Parents report higher grades and teachers report they have more alert students. The same players that do not attend either morning or after school workouts, do not respond to coaches for scheduling interviews. Not sure if it trying to change something into chicken salad. Again I really appreciate everyones input. I think evaluation is the best way to grow and evolve.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 7:49:44 GMT -6
Our morning sessions run 6:30-7:05. We have a day based on competitive drills. A lot of other physical drills have team building aspects. What time are you done in the afternoon? Our afternoon sessions are relatively short. School gets out at 3:00 so session can be finished by 4:00 by most, others by 4:30
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Post by blb on Mar 2, 2017 8:00:55 GMT -6
A coach quit last week after only a month on the job at a good (not great) Football school in our state.
He had instituted 6-7:25 AM workouts four days a week. On the fifth day he held study table "for those who need help."
Apparently he required even In-Season athletes to attend and at least implied if kids weren't there, they wouldn't play in the Fall (which is against our state's rules).
Some kids said the heck with that, I won't play. Some parents groused because they had to get kids who don't drive there by 6 AM. Some teachers were upset because kids started falling asleep in class. And of course the Winter sports coaches did not like their athletes having to serve two masters.
Administrators talked to him about softening his demands and when he wouldn't he quit, claimed he was "forced out."
I know things are different in different places (this particular coach had previously worked in Texas and Iowa but his resume is a little hard to follow because he moved around a lot).
Take it FWIW.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2017 8:02:03 GMT -6
What time are you done in the afternoon? Our afternoon sessions are relatively short. School gets out at 3:00 so session can be finished by 4:00 by most, others by 4:30 So, three days a week you ask your kids to be there from 6:30 AM-4:30 PM? Ten hours? You're definitely doing too much.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2017 8:04:33 GMT -6
I know things are different in different places (this particular coach had previously worked in Texas and Iowa but his resume is a little hard to follow because he moved around a lot). Take it FWIW. Maybe he wandered around a lot due to sleep deprivation.
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jbutch17
Freshmen Member
[F4:@JButch17]
Posts: 95
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Post by jbutch17 on Mar 2, 2017 8:18:21 GMT -6
I think thats too much. Pick either before or after. Both is pretty tough. In my experience, what you lose are guys who have football as a second sport but still want to play. Its not their first love but when it gets down to it they can contribute. Case in point, my QB the last two years. In 14.5 games at QB his numbers were comparable to Deshawn Watson in high school. But his first love was basketball. He turned down big time D1 football offers to play basketball and football at a D2 school. If we wanted to be hard, we could have put him in a position to choose and he wouldn't have chose us. How important is winning or competing? I would love to do less, but this is what is needed for us to even compete. It sounds like you have the luxury of having multisport D1 athletes in your school. We have had 1 D1 player come out of this school in the last 15 years from all sports combine. Last year we beat a team that had 7 D1 players. We are a closed district of "small kids" that play teams full of D1 kids. Get with your AD then, as a regular schedule it should be a little closer. The before and after is going to cost you some guys, it wouldn't have been anything for me and probably many guys here as a player, but that's a lot. There's gotta be some way to combine and save a little time.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 2, 2017 8:22:48 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 2, 2017 8:31:55 GMT -6
I think thats too much. Pick either before or after. Both is pretty tough. In my experience, what you lose are guys who have football as a second sport but still want to play. Its not their first love but when it gets down to it they can contribute. Case in point, my QB the last two years. In 14.5 games at QB his numbers were comparable to Deshawn Watson in high school. But his first love was basketball. He turned down big time D1 football offers to play basketball and football at a D2 school. If we wanted to be hard, we could have put him in a position to choose and he wouldn't have chose us. How important is winning or competing? I would love to do less, but this is what is needed for us to even compete. It sounds like you have the luxury of having multisport D1 athletes in your school. We have had 1 D1 player come out of this school in the last 15 years from all sports combine. Last year we beat a team that had 7 D1 players. We are a closed district of "small kids" that play teams full of D1 kids. Ive won games while outmatched too. Scored 50 on a team two years ago that had approximately 34 D1 guys on defense and somehow they let them all play at the same time. I feel your pain. But you better dang well make sure you aren't running off guys that can help. Somebody has to play scout team. I had the same experience with baseball. I was a part time baseball player. Baseball coach wanted me to play summer ball and I said no because it would interfere with football. But I loved baseball and still wanted to play and truth be told was a much better baseball player than football player. Got moved up to varsity on a good team as a freshman. But because he wanted all this extra stuff I opted to just not play. Its something I still regret to this day. I coached with that baseball coach a few years ago and he admitted he was asking too much and ruined me playing baseball. I was probably the 3rd best baseball player in my grade level and I never played another game. I do agree there are things you have to do to compete. You have to lift. But you dont have to lift every day. You have to do some type of jumping, change of direction, speed work, etc. But you dont have to do it every day. I would pick one time and go with that and not require both. If you had a weight training class and wanted to add in something else I got no problem with that. But both is too much in February.
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Post by blb on Mar 2, 2017 8:32:47 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes.
My last HC job school (enrollment `400) barely had PE at all - only three sections each semester, much less weight training classes.
Increased graduation requirements in our state have put the squeeze on all electives - basically any subject not on standardized tests - unless you have a seven-hour day and-or Tri-mesters.
Plus the PE requirements in our state are ridiculously low.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 2, 2017 8:34:01 GMT -6
One measure I always use is if I do't feel like being there then we're probably doing too much. I realized years ago how much I HATED the 2nd session of 2 days. Always seemed like the kids were sluggish and dragging which inevitably led to coaches barking. etc. and always seemed to end a positive morning session on a negative note. Hence, I decided to elongate our morning sessions and call it a day. I'm sure I would feel the same way if I were going in to work on FB in the morning and then again in the afternoon. My point is...if I feel that way then you KNOW the kids are feeling that way. Even the ones who are in full attendance are probably doing it out of a sense of duty but my guess is they would feel relieved if you shut it down. JMO. Haven't done traditional two-a-days in 18 years. We just go in the morning and are done. We go 7:30-9. Take a 30 minute break and then 9:30-12.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 8:34:14 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes. Yes we are the only team in our league without a "football tech class". There is one section of weight lifting that is ran like a cross fit cardio class
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Post by **** on Mar 2, 2017 8:41:48 GMT -6
Currently in our program we currently in the middle of a "downsizing" off season. We have had a good handful of JV players that have announced that they are not playing next season. They have not really gave a specific reason, but I believe it is linked to our off season workouts sessions. Currently we workout 4 days a week after school in a structured setting. We also hold morning sessions approx. 3 times a week to work on footwork/speed/agility. I express to all players that everything is optional, but highly encouraged and the aim of everything is to give them the best opportunity to play and be successful. I know we do a lot and at times wonder if it is too much. With that said, I do not think the players mentioned above would attend a works if we only had them once a week. Also we have a good group of students that attend everything and really improve their abilities. I am stuck with the dilemma, do I lower expectations in attempts to raise numbers, or get the bar high and maximize the players that attend? Would you rather have 50 turds or 25 hard working kids Also we have been successful over the past several seasons I want as many kids as possible. If a kid is a total piece of chit I will get rid of him, but I want numbers. Not sure if you have a weights class during the school day or not? If so, you are doing too much. All our football kids are multi sport athletes (can't say the same for other sports at our school) if they're not in another sport they will come to after school weights M-R for roughly 40 minutes (we do have weights during school)
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Post by joelee on Mar 2, 2017 8:47:53 GMT -6
My first thought was are those 25 kids that quit ALL turds or are some of them good kids that think football is fun and you sucked that right out of it? We didn't do that much when I played college ball and we were pretty dang good. I would like to know how much better you are truly making these kids? The 50 to 25 was a HUGE exaggeration just for a philosophical question. More like 4 or 6 kids that want to smoke weed after school. If that is true, why are we having this thread?
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 2, 2017 8:48:49 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes. Yes we are the only team in our league without a "football tech class". There is one section of weight lifting that is ran like a cross fit cardio class I think thats your problem. Why isn't someone teaching weight training who is knowledgeable? Does he coach football?
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Post by bluboy on Mar 2, 2017 8:51:00 GMT -6
My two cents: you are doing too much. They're high school kids. They're not getting paid gazillions of dollars to play, and they are not on scholarship. I understand the high expectations, but they're still kids who see football season as a long time away right now. We want our kids to want to come to workout in order to get better, not view it as a chore they must complete.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 8:55:45 GMT -6
Yes we are the only team in our league without a "football tech class". There is one section of weight lifting that is ran like a cross fit cardio class I think thats your problem. Why isn't someone teaching weight training who is knowledgeable? Does he coach football? Its really a union issue. The gym teacher does not coach a sport. We have a teacher/coach on staff (PE certified) and we brought up the idea of a sports class to admin. We were told that the other part time PE teacher (who also doesn't coach anything) would get first dibs. I know no support from admin........ makes it difficult
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 2, 2017 8:55:57 GMT -6
You're schedule sounds a lot like ours. We lift 4 days a week and offer 7 sessions. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday there's a 6am session and 6:30pm session. Friday it's at 3pm. We get about 25 regulars. We don't see many of our winter sports kinds. Some that are really committed come, but the majority do not. We would like them there, but that's tough on a teenager to juggle all that. It's not mandatory, but we expect all the non winter sports athletes there.
As far as players saying they aren't playing next year....i think that happens everywhere. Every year X number of kids say they aren't playing next year, only a handful actually end up quiting. Come summer time the majority of these kids are there. The lazy ones or the multi sport athletes will say they are unsure if they are playing, just so in their head it's an excuse to not be at lifting.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2017 8:58:08 GMT -6
I don't see how you guys function without weight training classes.
My last HC job school (enrollment `400) barely had PE at all - only three sections each semester, much less weight training classes.
Increased graduation requirements in our state have put the squeeze on all electives - basically any subject not on standardized tests - unless you have a seven-hour day and-or Tri-mesters.
Plus the PE requirements in our state are ridiculously low.
We're a big school in a school district with four HS's but we're in the same boat. Because of greater academic demands and budget issues we've eliminated all elective PE classes. None of our schools have ever had an athletic PE class.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Mar 2, 2017 8:59:37 GMT -6
My last HC job school (enrollment `400) barely had PE at all - only three sections each semester, much less weight training classes.
Increased graduation requirements in our state have put the squeeze on all electives - basically any subject not on standardized tests - unless you have a seven-hour day and-or Tri-mesters.
Plus the PE requirements in our state are ridiculously low.
We're a big school in a school district with four HS's but we're in the same boat. Because of greater academic demands and budget issues we've eliminated all elective PE classes. None of our schools have ever had an athletic PE class. Our students get a gym credit for marching band Other get PC'd out of gym
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