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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 11, 2017 11:07:17 GMT -6
Let the guy run what he knows, but hire a guy that actually knows his chit. If the school has no talent, find a coach that knows SS&C and can mold them, but give him 4 years. Having read through this thread, I think that is what most of the coaches here would say. Unfortunately for redcoach it seems that the school itself is the issue. Not the "coaching". They simply don't have a platform to attract a quality competent coach. redcoach -- sorry if many of the coaches have been razzing you here, but you essentially are representing the embodiment of of one of the biggest negatives we as professional coaches have to face daily. The fact that you initially included "Wing -T" demonstrates what us as coaches already know. That the fans don't have a clue, but they think they do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 11:39:09 GMT -6
If nothing else I think it was really nice of redcoach to post the name of the school so that a prospective coach can google the school's name and find out what a goat rodeo it is... and then turn down the interview.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Feb 11, 2017 11:49:09 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the app to come out where parents, administrators, and booster club members can chime in on the next play call. It will be in real-time as well so the coach can get instant feedback, this will allow him to appease all stakeholders involved before calling the next play so that he cannot be the sole reason the team lost! Think about coaches, we can never be blamed again! This may be the next big thing in coaching, should I patent it? On a serious note, when coachd5085 speaks, I listen
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Post by CS on Feb 11, 2017 12:39:25 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the app to come out where parents, administrators, and booster club members can chime in on the next play call. It will be in real-time as well so the coach can get instant feedback, this will allow him to appease all stakeholders involved before calling the next play so that he cannot be the sole reason the team lost! Think about coaches, we can never be blamed again! This may be the next big thing in coaching, should I patent it? On a serious note, when coachd5085 speaks, I listen Haha! Man you could do a surveymonkey they can log into and let the fans vote in real time on what to do. Democratic football is the wave of the future!
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2017 12:41:57 GMT -6
Let the guy run what he knows, but hire a guy that actually knows his chit. If the school has no talent, find a coach that knows SS&C and can mold them, but give him 4 years. Having read through this thread, I think that is what most of the coaches here would say. Unfortunately for redcoach it seems that the school itself is the issue. Not the "coaching". They simply don't have a platform to attract a quality competent coach. redcoach -- sorry if many of the coaches have been razzing you here, but you essentially are representing the embodiment of of one of the biggest negatives we as professional coaches have to face daily. The fact that you initially included "Wing -T" demonstrates what us as coaches already know. That the fans don't have a clue, but they think they do. This is it right here. We are playing around in this thread because it's a slap in the face to us coaches when a parent thinks they can do a better job.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 13:07:47 GMT -6
You all haven't been living here sitting on the side lines watching and going through what we have the the past 8 years. You all don't have up and coming kids that will be going through this program if you want to call it that. So you can poke fun all you want, but we have been living it and still are.
Not everyone how takes a HC job is a coach. However when they don't do their job and you complain to the school board and or AD and they say sorry its all we can get for now, because we can't pay a full time coach and we have no teaching positions open. So after years of the same old song and dace you do one of two things, through in the towel, or step up and find out what you can do to help.
Now yes we could and some may feel we should vote the school board out and try and fix the whole thing from the top down. But no mater what we still don't have the money to pay a full time coach and we don't have a teaching position open. Plus the school board could pressure whoever it is as the HC to do the things they want done, but if he quits or gets fired who is taking his spot? Like I said it has came down to the end of July, beginning of Aug before finding someone to take the HC job. One year they couldn't find anyone so a School Board member stepped up so that the team would have someone as a HC.
So you take what you get or you step up and find out what all you can do to help the program. Do I have all the answers? No Which is why I came to this website, and have been doing all kinds of researching. But I can say that I care more about this school and these kids, to not just sit around making jokes, saying its pointless, its in the genes, give up and walk away. I really want to help them or I wouldn't be here putting up with people cracking jokes and poking fun or wasting hours on hours researching all I could about everything when it comes to a football program.
I agree that a good coach should have the freedom to do things as he sees fit, But we haven't had a coach like that in years.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2017 13:17:14 GMT -6
You all haven't been living here sitting on the side lines watching and going through what we have the the past 8 years. You all don't have up and coming kids that will be going through this program if you want to call it that. So you can poke fun all you want, but we have been living it and still are. Not everyone how takes a HC job is a coach. However when they don't do their job and you complain to the school board and or AD and they say sorry its all we can get for now, because we can't pay a full time coach and we have no teaching positions open. So after years of the same old song and dace you do one of two things, through in the towel, or step up and find out what you can do to help. Now yes we could and some may feel we should vote the school board out and try and fix the whole thing from the top down. But no mater what we still don't have the money to pay a full time coach and we don't have a teaching position open. Plus the school board could pressure whoever it is as the HC to do the things they want done, but if he quits or gets fired who is taking his spot? Like I said it has came down to the end of July, beginning of Aug before finding someone to take the HC job. One year they couldn't find anyone so a School Board member stepped up so that the team would have someone as a HC. So you take what you get or you step up and find out what all you can do to help the program. Do I have all the answers? No Which is why I came to this website, and have been doing all kinds of researching. But I can say that I care more about this school and these kids, to not just sit around making jokes, saying its pointless, its in the genes, give up and walk away. I really want to help them or I wouldn't be here putting up with people cracking jokes and poking fun or wasting hours on hours researching all I could about everything when it comes to a football program. I agree that a good coach should have the freedom to do things as he sees fit, But we haven't had a coach like that in years. A lot of coaches on here have been apart of terrible programs, we do know what you have seen for 8 years.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 11, 2017 13:25:00 GMT -6
You all haven't been living here sitting on the side lines watching and going through what we have the the past 8 years. You all don't have up and coming kids that will be going through this program if you want to call it that. So you can poke fun all you want, but we have been living it and still are. Not everyone how takes a HC job is a coach. However when they don't do their job and you complain to the school board and or AD and they say sorry its all we can get for now, because we can't pay a full time coach and we have no teaching positions open. So after years of the same old song and dace you do one of two things, through in the towel, or step up and find out what you can do to help. Now yes we could and some may feel we should vote the school board out and try and fix the whole thing from the top down. But no mater what we still don't have the money to pay a full time coach and we don't have a teaching position open. Plus the school board could pressure whoever it is as the HC to do the things they want done, but if he quits or gets fired who is taking his spot? Like I said it has came down to the end of July, beginning of Aug before finding someone to take the HC job. One year they couldn't find anyone so a School Board member stepped up so that the team would have someone as a HC. So you take what you get or you step up and find out what all you can do to help the program. Do I have all the answers? No Which is why I came to this website, and have been doing all kinds of researching. But I can say that I care more about this school and these kids, to not just sit around making jokes, saying its pointless, its in the genes, give up and walk away. I really want to help them or I wouldn't be here putting up with people cracking jokes and poking fun or wasting hours on hours researching all I could about everything when it comes to a football program. I agree that a good coach should have the freedom to do things as he sees fit, But we haven't had a coach like that in years. As I mentioned earlier, not every community/program deserves a good football coach. Despite your passion and your words, your COMMUNITY, as demonstrated by the actions you describe, is an example of one that does not. Until you, the COMMUNITY change that, nothing will change. So it sounds like YOU would like to try your hand at coaching. I would agree, that if you are able to implement the items on your list, then yes the program would probably be better off than under the helm of someone who won't do those things. So, what can you do? Get the job--and then come here and the members of this board would have more suggestions and ideas than you could handle.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 13:32:19 GMT -6
Sorry spos21ram but yes I do feel that I could do a better job then the coaches that we have been getting. Am I talking about taking a team to the playoffs or winning all kinds of games? No. What I'm talking about is doing all the other things that need to be done when building a program that has not been getting done at our school in a very long time.
Now do I feel that I can do a better job then the coaches on these forums. NO
Just because someone takes a HC position doesn't make him a coach, but you defend him with out seeing what all he has done/not done.
Which is worse complaining that you need someone else to fill a job because the last few people didn't do their job. Oh and saying that you want someone that can do X, Y, Z?
If I go to build a deck for someone and they say they want it this way, but I say well it would be better if you did this. What way should it be done? The way the customer wants it.
Another example lest say a school has the power I for their youth program, middle school and high school and its been that way for years. Now the HC leaves and they need a new HC but they want a HC that runs the Power I. If that is what they want then that is what they want. It is their choice and they are paying the person who takes the job. Now no one has to take the job.
People are aloud to say if you come work for me I want you to do this. I work on houses and I get it all the time. They want what they want I can see if they would like to do it a different way and if not I can do what they want or not take the job. So even though I know what I'm doing I get told that they want it there way all the time.
So I guess a school or state shouldn't say to a teacher I want you to teach subject X this way. Because I get told buy my kids teachers that the way they are teaching my kids is that they have to go by, even though they them selves my not like teaching it the new way.
What I'm getting at is all or most jobs are that way. You as a coach may want the freedom to do as you want. I know I would like the freedom to do my work the way I want. However that isn't always the case.
Am I or the teacher suppose to get upset and say that is a slap in our face, because they are acting like we don't know what we are doing?
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Post by rsmith627 on Feb 11, 2017 13:36:48 GMT -6
You all haven't been living here sitting on the side lines watching and going through what we have the the past 8 years. You all don't have up and coming kids that will be going through this program if you want to call it that. So you can poke fun all you want, but we have been living it and still are. Not everyone how takes a HC job is a coach. However when they don't do their job and you complain to the school board and or AD and they say sorry its all we can get for now, because we can't pay a full time coach and we have no teaching positions open. So after years of the same old song and dace you do one of two things, through in the towel, or step up and find out what you can do to help. Now yes we could and some may feel we should vote the school board out and try and fix the whole thing from the top down. But no mater what we still don't have the money to pay a full time coach and we don't have a teaching position open. Plus the school board could pressure whoever it is as the HC to do the things they want done, but if he quits or gets fired who is taking his spot? Like I said it has came down to the end of July, beginning of Aug before finding someone to take the HC job. One year they couldn't find anyone so a School Board member stepped up so that the team would have someone as a HC. So you take what you get or you step up and find out what all you can do to help the program. Do I have all the answers? No Which is why I came to this website, and have been doing all kinds of researching. But I can say that I care more about this school and these kids, to not just sit around making jokes, saying its pointless, its in the genes, give up and walk away. I really want to help them or I wouldn't be here putting up with people cracking jokes and poking fun or wasting hours on hours researching all I could about everything when it comes to a football program. I agree that a good coach should have the freedom to do things as he sees fit, But we haven't had a coach like that in years. A lot of coaches on here have been apart of terrible programs, we do know what you have seen for 8 years. I have been a part of that. If only we had ran the wing t.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 13:39:24 GMT -6
Thanks coachd5085
If it comes down to me having to take the job or go through what we have been going through then I will. If I do then I will spend countless hours trying to get things in place for the next real head coach. However I would rather have a teaching position open up, so that we could hire a young ambitious coach that is just starting out.
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2017 13:50:09 GMT -6
How hard has the administration tried to recruit a coach? It was mentioned earlier that the vacancy hasn't been posted and that Maxpreps still says that you already have a coach. How would anybody know to even inquire? Has admin sent vacancy notices to neighboring schools to see if one of their assistants wants the job?
If we've been joking here it's because, not speaking for others but, to me none of this makes any sense.
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Post by rsmith627 on Feb 11, 2017 13:52:41 GMT -6
How hard has the administration tried to recruit a coach? It was mentioned earlier that the vacancy hasn't been posted and that Maxpreps still says that you already have a coach. How would anybody know to even inquire? Has admin sent vacancy notices to neighboring schools to see if one of their assistants wants the job? If we've been joking here it's because, not speaking for others but, to me none of this makes any sense. I kind of wonder if the "last" HC even knows there's a vacancy yet.
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Post by seabass on Feb 11, 2017 13:55:46 GMT -6
If I was put in charge of this task (finding a coach) I wouldn't be afraid to look at a dude who is a little "out of the box". It is going to take a lot of energy and a ton of salesmanship to change your culture. This dude doesn't necessarily have to have all of the football answers, he probably won't, that guy already has a job and wouldn't likely want your job.
He's going to have to sell your students on wanting to play. You need more kids to turn out. After he sells them on that he's going to have to sell them on getting prepared to play. He needs to know at least a little bit about S/C. He's also going to have to sell them on the idea that it will be a process. This thing won't turn over night. He's going to have to sell everybody involved on staying in the process and getting excited about incremental progress. Lots and lots of selling.
No way in hell anybody takes this job for the money. There isn't enough of it to motivate anyone. This dude would want the job for "other" reasons but you would want to make sure those "other" reasons are wholesome and not deranged. Your guy is either independently wealthy or a missionary. It would be a rare find IMO.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 13:59:17 GMT -6
They are holding out posting it because like in past years they are hoping that a teaching job might open up so that they could offer it to a teaching coach. However it has came all the way down to July/Aug and no coach. So they just take who ever applied, or someones dad, or once one of the school board members stepped in because no one applied.
So they are taking app's but they aren't really looking till they know if they have a teaching job that they could offer. However from my understanding non of our teachers plan on leaving at this point. But at the same time some of our teachers drive for over an hour to get here, so you never know one could get a job closer to home.
One assistant from a from a neighboring school did apply, but has decided to stay at the school where he is. The school where he is does have a good program so as an assistant if he feels he still has more to learn that wouldn't be a bad place to be in this area.
Well that is where we are.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:04:16 GMT -6
Yes rsmith627
The school board told us last month that the HC resigned and that we will need to find a new HC for next year. I also know that he resigned completely on his own accord, he wasn't fired.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:06:19 GMT -6
If I was put in charge of this task (finding a coach) I wouldn't be afraid to look at a dude who is a little "out of the box". It is going to take a lot of energy and a ton of salesmanship to change your culture. This dude doesn't necessarily have to have all of the football answers, he probably won't, that guy already has a job and wouldn't likely want your job. He's going to have to sell your students on wanting to play. You need more kids to turn out. After he sells them on that he's going to have to sell them on getting prepared to play. He needs to know at least a little bit about S/C. He's also going to have to sell them on the idea that it will be a process. This thing won't turn over night. He's going to have to sell everybody involved on staying in the process and getting excited about incremental progress. Lots and lots of selling. No way in hell anybody takes this job for the money. There isn't enough of it to motivate anyone. This dude would want the job for "other" reasons but you would want to make sure those "other" reasons are wholesome and not deranged. Your guy is either independently wealthy or a missionary. It would be a rare find IMO. I agree with you on this
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2017 14:09:05 GMT -6
They are holding out posting it because like in past years they are hoping that a teaching job might open up so that they could offer it to a teaching coach. However it has came all the way down to July/Aug and no coach. So they just take who ever applied, or someones dad, or once one of the school board members stepped in because no one applied. So they are taking app's but they aren't really looking till they know if they have a teaching job that they could offer. However from my understanding non of our teachers plan on leaving at this point. But at the same time some of our teachers drive for over an hour to get here, so you never know one could get a job closer to home. One assistant from a from a neighboring school did apply, but has decided to stay at the school where he is. The school where he is does have a good program so as an assistant if he feels he still has more to learn that wouldn't be a bad place to be in this area. Well that is where we are. He probably decided to back out when he saw that the hiring won't be done until summer (That's correct, isn't it? They're not formally hiring until they know if there are any openings?). If that's accurate, combined with other things that you've said about the district, I have to concur with my esteemed colleagues's analysis of the situation: Your district has no phukin' clue what they're doing, not a damn one of them.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:14:22 GMT -6
Right fantom
When we the community, well the ones that go to the meeting found out a that we would need a new HC for next year we started saying that we need to get one now so they they can start building towards next year. However it is the school board/AD opinion in order to get a better coach we need a teaching position to offer them and if we hire a coach now and a position opens up then we can't hire a better coach.
I understand what they are saying, however they are just hoping and wishing. Plus even if it was to happen, there is now way in the world they with have any time to get ready for next year.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2017 14:15:28 GMT -6
They are holding out posting it because like in past years they are hoping that a teaching job might open up so that they could offer it to a teaching coach. However it has came all the way down to July/Aug and no coach. So they just take who ever applied, or someones dad, or once one of the school board members stepped in because no one applied. So they are taking app's but they aren't really looking till they know if they have a teaching job that they could offer. However from my understanding non of our teachers plan on leaving at this point. But at the same time some of our teachers drive for over an hour to get here, so you never know one could get a job closer to home. One assistant from a from a neighboring school did apply, but has decided to stay at the school where he is. The school where he is does have a good program so as an assistant if he feels he still has more to learn that wouldn't be a bad place to be in this area. Well that is where we are. Post it as just a HC position and then if a teaching position opens up then great.
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Post by seabass on Feb 11, 2017 14:15:31 GMT -6
Your analogy of building a deck doesn't really hold water in this example. What if your homeowner, foe whom you are building the deck, says," I don't want the boards secured with nails or screws, I want the boards secured with silly putty". Do you just build it the way they want it because they are your boss?
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:25:10 GMT -6
You can say stupid stuff like that about everything.
However if you did the kind of work that contractors do for a living you would know that it does hold water.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 14:25:19 GMT -6
redcoach, you keep saying you get it but then you double down with another post that makes it clear that you do not get it. I truly mean no disrespect but you don't even know what you don't know. Some very learned coaches on this site are trying to educate you but you're refusing to see it. I don't blame you, I sat on the sidelines thinking a lot of coaches were absolute morons. Then about 12 years ago I started coaching at the HS level and it fast became clear to me that I was the moron all along. I played football from peewee and into college but that didn't qualify me to be a HC or even comment on what a program should do because I was forming conclusions based on incomplete info. The amount of pressure & responsibility along with the number of hats a HC has to wear would buckle most people. It sounds like the only way you're going to learn this is by taking the job yourself. I wish you good luck.
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2017 14:28:55 GMT -6
Right fantom When we the community, well the ones that go to the meeting found out a that we would need a new HC for next year we started saying that we need to get one now so they they can start building towards next year. However it is the school board/AD opinion in order to get a better coach we need a teaching position to offer them and if we hire a coach now and a position opens up then we can't hire a better coach. I understand what they are saying, however they are just hoping and wishing. Plus even if it was to happen, there is now way in the world they with have any time to get ready for next year. Red, I'll be honest with you: I and, I'm sure some of the others didn't take you too seriously because we thought that you really wanted us to encourage you to take the job. We get that here at least once a year ("Should I stab my HC in the back because I, and I alone am capable of unphuking this place?"). It's obvious, though, that admin doesn't know what they're doing. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity, or at least incompetence. You have my sympathy and I mean that sincerely. I taught for 30 years. Most of the coaches here are teachers. Most of us understand the frustration of dealing with blockheads in administration and school boards. I stand by my original advice- do NOT take this job. If you go oh-fer, and I hate to say it but you probably will, you're going to lose a lot of friends. I'd advise you to do something more helpful for the school: run for the school board.
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Post by blb on Feb 11, 2017 14:43:15 GMT -6
There is a big difference between having a "program" - which is necessary to be competitive much less succeed for an extended period of time - and just fielding teams year after year.
red, your school district needs to decide which they want to do first.
Good luck.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Feb 11, 2017 14:44:37 GMT -6
Someone once told me never to judge until you've been in their shoes (or role) This scenario kind of reminds me of the whole Dallas PD sniper situation, in response to the protests and when questioned what advice he would give to black men, "Get off that protest line and put an application in, and we'll put you in your neighborhood, and we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about" Here's the link to the above story: www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dallas-police-chief-protesters-hiring-article-1.2707704
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:45:08 GMT -6
Several of us have talked about the school board. I don't know I really don't have the answers but something has to change
I may go and try to talk to the coach from 12 years ago and ask him his thoughts on the school and the staff. Ask him what he thinks needs to change to get a good HC. I mean I have my thoughts and ideas, but I think it would be nice to talk to the guy that was there and left the school. At least to hear what he has to say any way.
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Post by redcoach on Feb 11, 2017 14:48:27 GMT -6
There is a big difference between having a "program" - which is necessary to be competitive much less succeed for an extended period of time - and just fielding teams year after year. red, your school district needs to decide which they want to do first. Good luck. Your right. I just told another parent today " We don't have a football program, we have a football field, locker room, weight room, and some kids that want to play football, but its not a program."
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2017 14:48:49 GMT -6
Several of us have talked about the school board. I don't know I really don't have the answers but something has to change I may go and try to talk to the coach from 12 years ago and ask him his thoughts on the school and the staff. Ask him what he thinks needs to change to get a good HC. I mean I have my thoughts and ideas, but I think it would be nice to talk to the guy that was there and left the school. At least to hear what he has to say any way. You may not have the answers but at least you know the questions.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 11, 2017 14:54:26 GMT -6
Several of us have talked about the school board. I don't know I really don't have the answers but something has to change I may go and try to talk to the coach from 12 years ago and ask him his thoughts on the school and the staff. Ask him what he thinks needs to change to get a good HC. I mean I have my thoughts and ideas, but I think it would be nice to talk to the guy that was there and left the school. At least to hear what he has to say any way. redcoach You keep missing the point that this isn't your job. In fact, meddlesome parents are usually a clear indicator that a community sucks, and will continue to suck. As I have mentioned to you before, I realize this sucks for you, but instead of using that passion to "investigate, and research" you need to use it to put political pressure on your local school board. Research how similar peer schools that are successful are operating, and then inquire as to why your school district can't mimic some of those practices.
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