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Post by kahnfoo44 on Jan 20, 2017 21:21:25 GMT -6
Think small school. Staff somewhere around 3-6. You pray for 30 kids.
I have always thought that answer was hands down HC is with the O-Line.
Now...not so sure he shouldn't be with the QB. That is if you need more than someone to just hand the ball off.
Your thoughts.
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Post by s73 on Jan 20, 2017 21:32:31 GMT -6
As a former lineman I am probably biased, but I think hands down it's OL ......IF......you don't have a solid OL guy or somebody other than yourself that REALLY knows your system.
The OL has more detail and tiny little tweaks than any other position AND it's usually the position that requires the most adjustment from week to week and game to game IMO.
I would also add that IMO it's the most important position group when it comes to determining success. You can always tweak things to take pressure off of a QB, RB, etc. You can always tweak or showcase a defensive player to try and make more of an impact (best player to the field, blitz, etc.)
But you theirs no way around it, you always have to block dudes.
All JMO of course.
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Post by coachtuck on Jan 20, 2017 21:39:21 GMT -6
I personally couldn't decide between the two if I had to but this season as the OC I'll have to because O line coach has just been made the Head Coach of the modified team
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Post by kahnfoo44 on Jan 20, 2017 21:58:59 GMT -6
s73 my thoughts and reasoning as well. Seems more and more things are QB reliant though. Obviously as HC you will have a hand in all things and will have to make sure your players are getting coached properly. I guess finding where the coaching deficiency was the biggest would be first order of business.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 21, 2017 6:59:16 GMT -6
Our HC coaches rb's and calls the plays. Guess it all depends on who you have on staff and what you run as well.
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Post by blb on Jan 21, 2017 7:20:34 GMT -6
Agree with wingtol. Depends on the make-up of your staff.
If you have an outstanding line coach, HC may be free to coach backs.
If not, he may need to coach the former.
As HC I did both at various times. Later in my career I preferred to coach QBs-RBs because as I got older I didn't want to work so hard (OL) any more!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 7:49:35 GMT -6
For me it would depend on the skills/knowledge of the coaching staff and the importance of each of those positions to your Offense. We're 75/25 run/pass so my personal preference would be HC to coach OL (provided there wasn't someone better suited on the staff).
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Post by s73 on Jan 21, 2017 7:56:48 GMT -6
s73 my thoughts and reasoning as well. Seems more and more things are QB reliant though. Obviously as HC you will have a hand in all things and will have to make sure your players are getting coached properly. I guess finding where the coaching deficiency was the biggest would be first order of business. Yeah, That was my thought also. I feel the HC can coach the OL but can still have a lot of influence on other positions through practice scheduling and group/ team time. |
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Post by canesfan on Jan 21, 2017 8:36:00 GMT -6
OL is the most important at the high school level IMO. If your OL isn't good you better have some dudes at the skill positions.
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Post by blb on Jan 21, 2017 8:45:29 GMT -6
OL is the most important at the high school level IMO. If your OL isn't good you better have some dudes at the skill positions.
That may be true but OL may not be in the HC's wheelhouse as far as experience or expertise.
So just because OL may be most important does not necessarily follow that that's where the HC goes.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jan 21, 2017 9:05:45 GMT -6
Offensive Line. So much attention to detail goes into that position. It's so important to have a good OL coach.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 21, 2017 9:12:49 GMT -6
O line is the most important piece of an offense, but having said that, it always seems that a HC brings in an Oline guy, unless the HC is a line guy.
Not scientific at all, but when I see staffs it always seems like the #2 is an o line guy.
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Post by **** on Jan 21, 2017 9:58:31 GMT -6
Depends on the system and the knowledge of the guys on staff.
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tekart
Junior Member
Posts: 298
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Post by tekart on Jan 21, 2017 10:41:03 GMT -6
If you have a really good OL coach HC can work with backs. If you cannot find a quality good OL coach the HC better get real good at coaching the OL. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 21, 2017 10:50:07 GMT -6
A guy had better prove to me that he's a stud coach if I am going to turn the OL over to him. But, we also run Wing-T so our QB's don't have a broad set of skills they need. It's one of the reasons why we run Wing-T: it's idiot proof when it comes to the staff.
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Post by kahnfoo44 on Jan 21, 2017 10:56:04 GMT -6
I absolutely agree about the line. I have always felt that HC goes hand in hand with O-Line.
With HC being also the OC do you think that changes anything.
60/40 run/pass
What if you have to coach up the staff almost as much as the kids.
C4 and R4 for the QB's
Anything equivalent to that for linemen?
Mostly man blocking with some zone added
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Post by canesfan on Jan 21, 2017 11:15:02 GMT -6
OL is the most important at the high school level IMO. If your OL isn't good you better have some dudes at the skill positions.
That may be true but OL may not be in the HC's wheelhouse as far as experience or expertise.
So just because OL may be most important does not necessarily follow that that's where the HC goes.
Without question. I'd be a terrible OL coach and a decent QB coach. I agree 100%. Just thought he had the ability to do both. |
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Post by bigcoach38 on Jan 21, 2017 11:42:29 GMT -6
The Head Coach should be able to coach whatever position he is needed depending on the staff needs; especially on the high school level. The most important thing to me is the HC be a leader of the staff. He must have the ability to have the staff WANT to work diligently, as well as lead by example (work hard themselves)...I am relating this to a situation I am currently in, HC addicted to his cell phone, complains about teaching a couple of drivers ed classes etc.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 21, 2017 12:18:42 GMT -6
A guy had better prove to me that he's a stud coach if I am going to turn the OL over to him. But, we also run Wing-T so our QB's don't have a broad set of skills they need. It's one of the reasons why we run Wing-T: it's idiot proof when it comes to the staff. I don't think a HC should "turn over" anything to an assistant unless they prove they are a stud like you said. Where you're wrong is you're thinking that an O line coach has to be a stud. If you have a solid oline coach that can teach the players what you want taught and can get through to the kids, respected, etc. That's all you need. A HC isn't turning over the O line to the guy. He just needs to be able to coach what the HC wants taught. I don't expect a normal solid o line coach to have to come up with schemes and all that. |
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CoachLickert
Freshmen Member
www.completeheadcoach.com
Posts: 42 
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Post by CoachLickert on Jan 21, 2017 12:27:55 GMT -6
Think small school. Staff somewhere around 3-6. You pray for 30 kids. I have always thought that answer was hands down HC is with the O-Line. Now...not so sure he shouldn't be with the QB. That is if you need more than someone to just hand the ball off. Your thoughts. If the HC is the OC, then he should probably be with a skill position. If he coaches the line, he will not be available during 7 on 7 time and other passing drills during the practice because the line is not involved. That said, IMO the O-Line coach needs to be the best coach on the staff. It is vitally important. The HC could still spend time with the OL and not be the main OL coach. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 21, 2017 12:41:51 GMT -6
Depends on the system. I'm not an HC but as OC in a spread built around the zone run I prefer to work with my QBs. I don't think zone is all that complicated, and I like to be on the same page as my QB when the bullets start flying, even though I have spent most of my coaching career with the OL.
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Post by cqmiller on Jan 21, 2017 12:44:26 GMT -6
Most important thing is for your 3-6 coaches to maximize their knowledge being able to be given to the kids... If your HC is both the best QB guy and the best OL guy, find out who the 2nd best in those groups are... if the 2nd best QB guy is better at QBs than the 2nd best OL guy... HC does the OL and the other guy does QBs.
I am the OC and work with QBs, but if I didn't have an OL guy that I trusted 100% but had another QB guy who was competent, I would leave QBs immediately and get that OL coached up.
I was at a place in CA with only 21 kids. I was the scout team MLB and the scout team QB or we couldn't even do 11 vs 11 practice. We only had 3 coaches... All of us have now been HCs since then, but we just did:
.....Coach #1 = HC, OC, WR, DB
.....Coach #2 (me) = AHC, DC, QBs, RBs, LBs
.....Coach #3 = OL, DL, Special Teams
Worked well for us and we got the team to their 1st playoff appearance in their school history our 2nd year, 3rd year the 1st playoff win, 4th year played for the championship, 5th year won the championship
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Post by kahnfoo44 on Jan 21, 2017 12:53:28 GMT -6
Think small school. Staff somewhere around 3-6. You pray for 30 kids. I have always thought that answer was hands down HC is with the O-Line. Now...not so sure he shouldn't be with the QB. That is if you need more than someone to just hand the ball off. Your thoughts. If the HC is the OC, then he should probably be with a skill position. If he coaches the line, he will not be available during 7 on 7 time and other passing drills during the practice because the line is not involved. That said, IMO the O-Line coach needs to be the best coach on the staff. It is vitally important. The HC could still spend time with the OL and not be the main OL coach. Coachlickert Good points. Kind of where I would lean. Other options? With small staff/small team... O-line on field while skill positions lift. Volunteer that knows lifting in weight room for supervision. coaches coaching hard and fast for 20-30 min then switch. Skill onfield and goes thru indys line lifts. Come together for team. Summers- o-line day, then skill day. Or o-line work first then skill shows up. Definitely a blocking progression once or twice a week. Would also give HC opportunity to make sure coaches are coached up. Agree HC has to be able to coach all position groups.(and be close to the best at them if not the best) |
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Post by bluboy on Jan 21, 2017 13:08:59 GMT -6
Our head coach has coached o-line, RB's, WR's, and QB's; it all depended on the make-up of the staff. Last year in '13-15 HC coached WR's; we had a very good QB coach and line coach. This past season HC had to coach QB's. During team offense, the heac coach will coach everyone on the offense.
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Post by aceback76 on Jan 21, 2017 13:27:22 GMT -6
Think small school. Staff somewhere around 3-6. You pray for 30 kids. I have always thought that answer was hands down HC is with the O-Line. Now...not so sure he shouldn't be with the QB. That is if you need more than someone to just hand the ball off. Your thoughts. Whichever you can do best. If you already have people qualified to do those - you as HFC can go back forth & observe both! That way you won't be "missing" something! |
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Post by dsqa on Jan 22, 2017 6:58:53 GMT -6
I did a few small school stints as a HC and I am a QB coach. I really needed to be the OL coach. I did both, but I often ended up scheming around our OL because we weren't as well coached there. Our skill kids did great, but without an OL that's operating properly to lay the track, the skill train will never leave the station and get up to speed
We did the best we could, but we were limited without an effective OL
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 22, 2017 7:32:23 GMT -6
I am a HC and I've also done both. If I don't have an OL coach who thoroughly understands what we need to do then I need to do the OL. That is my present situation but maybe I'll develop a good OL coach again.
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Post by bluboy on Jan 22, 2017 8:53:10 GMT -6
"...but without an OL that's operating properly to lay the track, the skill train will never leave the station and get up to speed."
Definitely agree!!!
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Post by blb on Jan 22, 2017 8:58:01 GMT -6
Although he is more associated with line play, perhaps from his days as one of the "Seven Blocks of Granite" at Fordham, Lombardi coached the backfield from his time at Army through the Packers and Redskins.
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Post by bigmoot on Jan 22, 2017 9:23:46 GMT -6
Has anyone gotten tired of coaching the same position and needed a change to rejuvenate. I did OL for 20 years. Last two I've done the backfield, I think doing something new has helped my motivation.
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