|
Post by 33coach on Jan 14, 2017 19:59:07 GMT -6
Ok I get that they don't see it...
But are you really telling me that any guy worth his salt couldn't draw up any play you run vs a 50 front or a 4-4 even though you don't see it in season???
|
|
|
Post by jg78 on Jan 14, 2017 20:06:32 GMT -6
I'm not a big fan of college clinics in general as far as nitty gritty learning. They're nice for getting away for a couple of days, checking out some cool facilities, watching a practice, and shooting the breeze with other coaches. But I don't typically learn very much at them. I prefer Glazier clinics with high school guys who coach teams similar to my own. I just wish their prices were better for individual coaches who only attend one clinic.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2017 10:33:59 GMT -6
I wouldn't have walked out but I probably would have popped off an email to that coach and/or the folks that ran the clinic the next week. You paid money to be at that clinic: he should have tried to accommodate your question in same fashion. But if he really doesn't have an answer do you really want to listen to the guy bullchit you? No, probably not. But, I wouldn't mind putting the guy on the spot a little bit, given that I'd forked over money for the clinic. But, I'm a bit jaded here. I have seen some seriously chitty clinic speakers over the years and I gets old.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 10:49:45 GMT -6
If I go to listen to the big timers talk at these things, it's more for the fun stories and to get a glimpse of what football is like at that level. Maybe there'll be some tidbit there, but I don't go in expecting to have some big revelation.
If I really want to learn, I prefer to go to schools' clinics and go to the breakout sessions with the position coaches. That's where some good info is shared, but it's still got to be taken with a grain of salt.
Frankly, I've learned more from this board and guys I've been fortunate enough to work with than I ever have from coaching clinics. Even the HS coaches' clinic presentations are usually somebody who's got an unreal amount of talent relative to his opponents and can make things work with his kids that I can't with mine, or he's won state 8 times in 11 years because the coach before him actually built the culture that he's here to talk about.
|
|
|
Post by irishdog on Jan 16, 2017 11:11:20 GMT -6
I attended many clinics over the 30+ years I spent coaching high school football, and most of those years in very small schools (under 300 enrollments - my choice). Most of the clinics I attended hardly ever had speakers from small high schools, but the ones that did...were the most productive clinics I attended. I was able to glean a lot of ideas, new and different approaches, and the speaker was able to relate to my challenges. It's really too bad that the majority of national clinics don't spend more time finding successful small high school coaches to speak to those of us who have the same passion for the game as our larger school counterparts, but coach larger numbers of kids who play football as opposed to coaching a team primarily made up of football players.
|
|
|
Post by 3rdandlong on Jan 16, 2017 11:25:46 GMT -6
Man, after reading the title of this thread, I was hoping it was going to be a post about a bar fight between an OC and DC in a "who has the chalk last" argument on a napkin. I'll give you a good one. Was at a clinic where 2 rival schools both attended. The team who won the most recent game apparantley beat the other pretty good and there was a running clock. The coaches of the winning school showed up to the clinic with t-shirts that had the final score and a drawing of a clock that had little arms and legs and was "running." That led to a fight in the parking lot and cops came!!!
|
|
coacht
Sophomore Member
Posts: 221
|
Post by coacht on Jan 16, 2017 11:56:28 GMT -6
I'll give you a good one. Was at a clinic where 2 rival schools both attended. The team who won the most recent game apparantley beat the other pretty good and there was a running clock. The coaches of the winning school showed up to the clinic with t-shirts that had the final score and a drawing of a clock that had little arms and legs and was "running." That led to a fight in the parking lot and cops came!!! Now that's a clinic "incident" worth reading about!
|
|
|
Post by solonem on Jan 20, 2017 9:13:11 GMT -6
I have in my opinion the best Coaching Clinic incident story ever!
Its like a mythical story at our school now, it even has its own name! The Mad Jacker!
So, this is my first year coaching at my alma mater, Head coach takes, the OC, DC, and myself to a clinic, we all share one hotel room, first night there we all go out for drinks, we exit out the back sliding glass doors, because our car is park right outside of it, night was good lots of laughs, we head back to the hotel room, we start walking down the side walk towards our room, we walk past a couple of rooms that you could see inside of an our DC starts pointing and laughing at this one room, "That guys in there, jacking it!" so, of course we all look for second and laugh too and keep walking.....
So we walk a few more rooms down and realize we must of past our room, then it hits us...... that was OUR ROOM!, we all go sprinting back to the sliding glass door and bust into the room, the front door is wide open and you can see a guy with his pants half way round his ankles running down the hallway, so for some reason my head coach and DC start chasing after him.... me and the OC realize what this guy had purchased on our hotel TV and decided to sit down and check it out lol........( he literally left an open bottle of lotion on the bed, you will never guess who got stuck sleeping in that bed.............)
So, head coach and DCs playing days have long past so they didn't catch the guy, we told the story to a few other coaches and by the end of the weekend, we had random people walking past saying "Hey! Aren't you the Mad Jacker guys!"
|
|
|
Post by funkfriss on Jan 20, 2017 9:34:02 GMT -6
I have in my opinion the best Coaching Clinic incident story ever! Its like a mythical story at our school now, it even has its own name! The Mad Jacker! So, this is my first year coaching at my alma mater, Head coach takes, the OC, DC, and myself to a clinic, we all share one hotel room, first night there we all go out for drinks, we exit out the back sliding glass doors, because our car is park right outside of it, night was good lots of laughs, we head back to the hotel room, we start walking down the side walk towards our room, we walk past a couple of rooms that you could see inside of an our DC starts pointing and laughing at this one room, "That guys in there, jacking it!" so, of course we all look for second and laugh too and keep walking..... So we walk a few more rooms down and realize we must of past our room, then it hits us...... that was OUR ROOM!, we all go sprinting back to the sliding glass door and bust into the room, the front door is wide open and you can see a guy with his pants half way round his ankles running down the hallway, so for some reason my head coach and DC start chasing after him.... me and the OC realize what this guy had purchased on our hotel TV and decided to sit down and check it out lol........( he literally left an open bottle of lotion on the bed, you will never guess who got stuck sleeping in that bed.............) So, head coach and DCs playing days have long past so they didn't catch the guy, we told the story to a few other coaches and by the end of the weekend, we had random people walking past saying "Hey! Aren't you the Mad Jacker guys!" That is too rich to be true!! I was laughing my ass off!
|
|
|
Post by funkfriss on Jan 20, 2017 9:55:25 GMT -6
I'll throw in my 2 cents
1. I get annoyed when ANY coach draws up all of his run game vs. a 6 or 7 man box. Dude, most of us are getting 8 man boxes.
2. For those who haven't listened to D1 coaches at clinics before, don't get put off by some of these comments. There are definitely things to be learned from D1 coaches. Do some suck at clinic talk? Maybe, but some are really good and I've learned a lot from them.
3. Everybody has bad days. I remember listening to a D1 header at a clinic and it was the worst session I've ever been to. Just showed video clips of his awesome receivers catching bombs all over the place. I've heard from others that they have loved his sessions and learned a lot. Who knows, maybe he was hungover the day I got him.
4. That said, I also like the local HS coaches the best because they are at the clinic to truly teach other coaches what they know. A lot of times they are also looking for information themselves so there can be a great give and take there.
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Jan 21, 2017 12:51:17 GMT -6
what this whole thread tells me is that to be a successful DC in the NCAA - you need to run a 7-Diamond.
all the OC's will just throw their hands up and say "never seen it, dont know how to block it." and you will win by forfeit.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 22, 2017 16:54:23 GMT -6
Something that does bug me about major college coaches is the ones who put basically no effort in and are always bringing up the GA. "My GA made the presentation." "The GAs put together the cutups." "Sorry in not sure what order this is all in my GA did it." "I wanted to mention this but my GA didn't include it." What the hell do you do all day if you couldn't put together a 45 minute talk about the thing that you're supposed to be an expert? Jesus, it's 2017, you're a professional. Learn how to use PowerPoint and learn how to put together your own cutup. It'll take you six hours and you'll reuse that presentation ten times.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jan 22, 2017 16:59:01 GMT -6
Something that does bug me about major college coaches is the ones who put basically no effort in and are always bringing up the GA. "My GA made the presentation." "The GAs put together the cutups." "Sorry in not sure what order this is all in my GA did it." "I wanted to mention this but my GA didn't include it." What the hell do you do all day if you couldn't put together a 45 minute talk about the thing that you're supposed to be an expert? Jesus, it's 2017, you're a professional. Learn how to use PowerPoint and learn how to put together your own cutup. It'll take you six hours and you'll reuse that presentation ten times. Those that don't understand the major college coaching landscape are not allowed to comment on it. (In jest regarding your comments about those commenting on the CFL)
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 22, 2017 16:59:33 GMT -6
All day every day!
|
|
|
Post by ccscoach on Jan 22, 2017 19:54:19 GMT -6
Honestly it depends on the coach I have had a couple good experiences with coaches at D1 schools. Experience #1 I'm sitting at the bar after listening to the Rutgers head coach Kyle Flood talk about outside zone. He sits next to me and my assistant and asks if we are drinking scotch and we say no double vodka and red bull. He laughs and askes if we are from the jersey shore we say no and we ask him about power and how it compliments outside zone then we start talking about calls with gap schemes we sat there and drank and talked for about an hour. #2 I'm running the booze out of the night before and see Paul Pasquaoloni who at the time was at UCONN I ask him about 43 double rifle aka 43 lightning he asked me where I've heard of that and he sits down we talked about defending the wing-t and double wing for about 2 hours. I still have the notes. #3 I'm sitting at breakfast at the cool clinic and Mike Munchak sat down because there was no where else to sit at the hotel buffet. We sat and talked about pin pull zone for probably 45 minutes until my bacon got cold. #4 Pat Perles was the offensive line coach for the KC Chiefs I'm walking out of a talk about 34 defense and talking to my assistant about wishing someone would talk about Gap schemes he grabs me and says I'll talk to you about gap schemes what do you want to know. I say bear front we go over 4 ways to block bear and how it fits into are scheme next thing I know Pat is going over combos and how a kettle bell swing simulates a Crowther strike.
I don't know I guess I'm just lucky I've had good experiences.
|
|
Davs
Sophomore Member
Posts: 186
|
Post by Davs on Jan 23, 2017 7:19:31 GMT -6
I am like many here that doesn't get much from the big time guys. My school has 400 kids and maybe 40 kids are on the team. A few years ago I did sit in on a talk that the DB coach from the Arizona Cardinals gave. He was great because he was honest. He was going on about how we do this and drill that blah blah blah. He follows it up with but if you have Patrick Peterson you let him do what he wants so you don't screw him up.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jan 23, 2017 8:27:03 GMT -6
I am like many here that doesn't get much from the big time guys. My school has 400 kids and maybe 40 kids are on the team. A few years ago I did sit in on a talk that the DB coach from the Arizona Cardinals gave. He was great because he was honest. He was going on about how we do this and drill that blah blah blah. He follows it up with but if you have Patrick Peterson you let him do what he wants so you don't screw him up. But the rest of his DBs aren't Patrick Peterson.
|
|
|
Post by ccscoach on Jan 23, 2017 9:57:16 GMT -6
I am like many here that doesn't get much from the big time guys. My school has 400 kids and maybe 40 kids are on the team. A few years ago I did sit in on a talk that the DB coach from the Arizona Cardinals gave. He was great because he was honest. He was going on about how we do this and drill that blah blah blah. He follows it up with but if you have Patrick Peterson you let him do what he wants so you don't screw him up. That's Nick Rapone he's the man he was the DC at Delaware and DB'S at Temple great guy and very down to earth. At Temple he played 43 over with quarter coverage like 85% of there snaps and the were ranked in the top 10 in 1AA in defense.
|
|
|
Post by mnike23 on Jan 23, 2017 13:06:08 GMT -6
got 1 to add.
at a famous "coach of the year" clinic, quite a few years back. a guy from the high school state champion studs, was speaking. a room full, i mean full, like 250 people full. everyone had their note pads and such. you know the drill. its a high school coach, most of us are in the same boat as this guy, dont make squat for cash. spend most of our weak suppplement on the kids anyways, etc. etc... here we go....
so fellas, thanks for havin me and this gonna be a good time. basically I aint got no power point, no handouts, no real script. im just gonna talk to yall about what we do on offense. hmmm---ok, i guess. so he gets out the overhead projector and draws up 2x2 spread....
here guys is what we do. we call this play go deep. see the 1 guy on the left, we tell him---go deep. the next dude, we call him 2, he----goes deep on the other side, well you guessed it 1 and 2 both----go deep. so there u have it questions? coach--what happens if you see 1 high safety---we just tell the boys to run fast and go deep. coach, whats the read for the qb vs a 2 high safety thats playing the apex to the RB side, well buddy, good question---i tell the qb to slang tha ball as far as he can and 1 goes and gets it. coach--trips? yall run trips? man i tell ya, we dont. this is it--- coach--what about rb reads, check down, slip screens, who does he read to block if he stays in? good qustion man,,,we tell him to block anyone that comes in and dont miss. but we tell the qb, man throw that thang deep!!! coach--do you run comebacks? what if its cover 4? posts, corners, do you change the routes??? naw man, we do this---go deep.
i promise to god it was 45 min of this---a full 150 people just laughed and listened. a good 50 to 100 people was pissed and asked so many questions that it kept it going...
so now, we run 2x2, i tell the OC come on man, just GO DEEP. and we laugh like idiots about how dumb this thing was. lmao.
|
|
|
Post by dytmook on Jan 23, 2017 19:54:26 GMT -6
Honestly it depends on the coach I have had a couple good experiences with coaches at D1 schools. Experience #1 I'm sitting at the bar after listening to the Rutgers head coach Kyle Flood talk about outside zone. He sits next to me and my assistant and asks if we are drinking scotch and we say no double vodka and red bull. He laughs and askes if we are from the jersey shore we say no and we ask him about power and how it compliments outside zone then we start talking about calls with gap schemes we sat there and drank and talked for about an hour. I think I saw that talk on OZ once before too. He was really good.
I've seen some good big name guys, some that were boring, and some I wouldn't watch again if you paid me. Our philosophy is try to find one thing in the whole clinic we can use.
|
|
|
Post by CoachCP on Jan 23, 2017 22:19:37 GMT -6
I've seen excellent and terrible D1 coaches. I've seen excellent and terrible coaches at every level. I've seen some coaches who were great one year do terrible the next -- who knows why.
I know for some Coach of the Year clinics, they're forced to go due to their contracts with Nike. This ESPECIALLY doesn't go well during recruiting or around Valentine's day or a kid's birthday.
|
|
|
Post by coachbleu on Jan 26, 2017 11:45:41 GMT -6
The reason that I posted this is because I recently visited with the coaches who were with me. We talked about the incident and it pissed me off all over again.
Let me set it up for y'all a little better. At the time, I had been to many coaching clinics and I was with some young coaches who were attending one of their first clinics. On the way there, I had told them how I liked to see guys from small schools, and that I rarely got anything helpful from guys from college. I had cited them a few examples and had told them of some arrogance and ineptitude that I had witnessed at clinics over the years.
We decided to check out Joker Phillips because someone was interested in what they were doing. I went along because I wanted to find out how they blocked some of their zone stuff. He drew all his stuff up against, mostly, the same front and two-high. I simply wanted to know how they handled ANY type of force or edge player on the weak side, where they couldn't combo with the G & T.
Please realize that I wasn't trying to be a jerk when I asked him. I simply wanted to know what they did. His answer of "we don't see that" is completely absurd. As if they NEVER face an overhang player in the sec. that's bogus. I wasn't trying to show him up. I just wanted to know what they did.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jan 26, 2017 12:04:10 GMT -6
The reason that I posted this is because I recently visited with the coaches who were with me. We talked about the incident and it pissed me off all over again. Let me set it up for y'all a little better. At the time, I had been to many coaching clinics and I was with some young coaches who were attending one of their first clinics. On the way there, I had told them how I liked to see guys from small schools, and that I rarely got anything helpful from guys from college. I had cited them a few examples and had told them of some arrogance and ineptitude that I had witnessed at clinics over the years. We decided to check out Joker Phillips because someone was interested in what they were doing. I went along because I wanted to find out how they blocked some of their zone stuff. He drew all his stuff up against, mostly, the same front and two-high. I simply wanted to know how they handled ANY type of force or edge player on the weak side, where they couldn't combo with the G & T. Please realize that I wasn't trying to be a jerk when I asked him. I simply wanted to know what they did. His answer of "we don't see that" is completely absurd. As if they NEVER face an overhang player in the sec. that's bogus. I wasn't trying to show him up. I just wanted to know what they did. Oh, I never thought you were being a jerk. I thought that walking out was overreacting because maybe he would have said something that was useful.
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jan 26, 2017 15:41:54 GMT -6
Does anybody believe talent/skill level is relative?
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jan 26, 2017 15:50:00 GMT -6
Does anybody believe talent/skill level is relative?
Relative to what?
If you're talking about age-experience (HS compared to college, or college to professional), then no.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jan 26, 2017 15:53:16 GMT -6
what this whole thread tells me is that to be a successful DC in the NCAA - you need to run a 7-Diamond. all the OC's will just throw their hands up and say "never seen it, dont know how to block it." and you will win by forfeit.
The 7-Diamond and Eagle Defense of the '50s were the forerunners of the Bear 46 defense.
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jan 26, 2017 15:59:22 GMT -6
Does anybody believe talent/skill level is relative?
Relative to what?
If you're talking about age-experience (HS compared to college, or college to professional), then no.
I'm talking about the generalization that a scheme cannot be run because of the types of players. It is referenced often and several times on this thread. For example, in terms of covering ground, a D1 defender needs to occupy an area quickly because the other guy is also a D1 athlete. Not so much at the HS level.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jan 26, 2017 16:44:17 GMT -6
Does anybody believe talent/skill level is relative? Maybe. I look at every idea and see it I can adapt it to our situation. Sometimes I can sometimes I can't.
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jan 26, 2017 17:12:38 GMT -6
Does anybody believe talent/skill level is relative? Maybe. I look at every idea and see it I can adapt it to our situation. Sometimes I can sometimes I can't. Agreed. I'm not sure football would exist at all if every player had to be a prototype for specific positions.
|
|
|
Post by mnike23 on Jan 27, 2017 7:58:23 GMT -6
Relative to what?
If you're talking about age-experience (HS compared to college, or college to professional), then no.
I'm talking about the generalization that a scheme cannot be run because of the types of players. It is referenced often and several times on this thread. For example, in terms of covering ground, a D1 defender needs to occupy an area quickly because the other guy is also a D1 athlete. Not so much at the HS level. i dont think this is a generalization, i think its fact. kids cant catch, why you throwing the ball? qb cant throw, same thing. you dont run read option with a frail qb, that wont make the read or cant run/take a hit. you dont run I formation pound the rock, with small OL kids, no fullback etc. so yes skill is relative to scheme. square peg round hole philosophy. you change O/D to fit your kids. dont force it, it wont work. maybe in spurts, but in the long term no.
|
|