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Post by coachbleu on Jan 13, 2017 18:29:24 GMT -6
Several years ago, I attended a coaching clinic with some buddies. Joker Phillips was speaking, as he was the HC at Kentucky at the time, so we decided to go and check out what he was doing. At the meeting, he was showing how they were blocking zone away from trips. He drew up several instances with 2-high safeties and a stacked LB on the weak side, with the tackle and the guard combo-ing up from the DE to the LB. I asked him how they would handle it if they got 1-high safety and a force player to the weak side. His response was THEY DON'T SEE THAT! I immediately got up and left the meeting with my pals.
I'd like to take this opportunity to vent a bit, after one of my buddies who was there brought it up today. Am I crazy? Am I wrong to think that it's an uncommon look? As a HS coach, I rarely see an edge without a force player. Actually, after 10 years as an OC and 10 more years as an assistant, I've only faced it a handful of times. Also, he was coaching in the SEC. They see EVERYTHING. I can't tell you how much it chapped my butt to have this guy act like I was crazy to suggest that they might have a force player rather than a stack away from trips. What'd I miss?
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Post by fantom on Jan 13, 2017 18:34:31 GMT -6
Several years ago, I attended a coaching clinic with some buddies. Joker Phillips was speaking, as he was the HC at Kentucky at the time, so we decided to go and check out what he was doing. At the meeting, he was showing how they were blocking zone away from trips. He drew up several instances with 2-high safeties and a stacked LB on the weak side, with the tackle and the guard combo-ing up from the DE to the LB. I asked him how they would handle it if they got 1-high safety and a force player to the weak side. His response was THEY DON'T SEE THAT! I immediately got up and left the meeting with my pals. I'd like to take this opportunity to vent a bit, after one of my buddies who was there brought it up today. Am I crazy? Am I wrong to think that it's an uncommon look? As a HS coach, I rarely see an edge without a force player. Actually, after 10 years as an OC and 10 more years as an assistant, I've only faced it a handful of times. Also, he was coaching in the SEC. They see EVERYTHING. I can't tell you how much it chapped my butt to have this guy act like I was crazy to suggest that they might have a force player rather than a stack away from trips. What'd I miss? I think that you overreacted.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 13, 2017 19:31:15 GMT -6
He should have added to his response, "but if we did we wouldn't block it this way".
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Post by bigmoot on Jan 13, 2017 20:34:02 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches.
If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme....
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Post by natenator on Jan 13, 2017 21:39:22 GMT -6
Several years ago, I attended a coaching clinic with some buddies. Joker Phillips was speaking, as he was the HC at Kentucky at the time, so we decided to go and check out what he was doing. At the meeting, he was showing how they were blocking zone away from trips. He drew up several instances with 2-high safeties and a stacked LB on the weak side, with the tackle and the guard combo-ing up from the DE to the LB. I asked him how they would handle it if they got 1-high safety and a force player to the weak side. His response was THEY DON'T SEE THAT! I immediately got up and left the meeting with my pals. I'd like to take this opportunity to vent a bit, after one of my buddies who was there brought it up today. Am I crazy? Am I wrong to think that it's an uncommon look? As a HS coach, I rarely see an edge without a force player. Actually, after 10 years as an OC and 10 more years as an assistant, I've only faced it a handful of times. Also, he was coaching in the SEC. They see EVERYTHING. I can't tell you how much it chapped my butt to have this guy act like I was crazy to suggest that they might have a force player rather than a stack away from trips. What'd I miss? You came on here to ask if you were justified in leaving a meeting over what some coach said and it happened several years ago?? Those are some really big worries eh? /sarcasm
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Post by jg78 on Jan 13, 2017 22:36:24 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... Agree 100%.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 13, 2017 22:46:53 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... Agree 100%. I also wholeheartedly agree. Unless they're talking team culture stuff, D1 HCs are absolutely useless as speakers IMO. Their position coaches do most of all the coaching if even they do.
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Post by bluboy on Jan 14, 2017 7:37:04 GMT -6
If you think that's bad, ask them to draw-up a defense versus the wing-t and see what happens.....
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 14, 2017 8:53:46 GMT -6
If you think that's bad, ask them to draw-up a defense versus the wing-t and see what happens..... When I was coaching 1AA ball we had a staff visit us and ask this exact question. Not to be a douche but, what are the college coaches supposed to say when they legitimately don't see something and haven't spent hours trouble shooting and refining their plans to deal with certain sets? We drew it up according to base rules, and I made a few "maybe we would do this, we might do this" but I made it very clear that we hadn't vetted those ideas because in fact,we never played against the wing T
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Post by bluboy on Jan 14, 2017 9:19:00 GMT -6
No offense taken. I understand.
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2017 9:31:57 GMT -6
If you think that's bad, ask them to draw-up a defense versus the wing-t and see what happens..... Yeah, and that's why I don't ask them about that (Although a lot of times the old-timers who have worked their way up through the ranks can be helpful). When I go to an Italian restaurant I don't order tacos. So, I don't go to listen to a D.1 coach and ask how to defense a high school offense.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 14, 2017 9:35:28 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... You're also competing against those jimmy and Joe's so it's pretty relative.
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Post by 53 on Jan 14, 2017 9:42:10 GMT -6
Man that's really stayed with you if it was when Joker was still at Kentucky
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2017 9:46:45 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... You're also competing against those jimmy and Joe's so it's pretty relative. And the OP was about the coach at Kentucky. I doubt that his Jimmies were better that Alabama's Joes.
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Post by s73 on Jan 14, 2017 9:56:26 GMT -6
I concur 100% with the college coaches speaking at clinics. I almost never attend a session with big time college guys b/c the players are literally apples to oranges IMO.
It's like some of the threads guys create about how NFL coaches do or did evaluate talent. I don't see the application.
No, when I go to a clinic I'm looking for "similar situation" coaching.
JMO.
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Post by bigmoot on Jan 14, 2017 10:23:56 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... You're also competing against those jimmy and Joe's so it's pretty relative. I get that, but what you are able to do with 11 D1s on defense is alot different than if your FS is 5'6 145 and runs a 4.9.
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Post by **** on Jan 14, 2017 10:52:53 GMT -6
NFL and D1 coaches don't have much to offer to HS guys. I never learn much, if anything from them.
Greg Williams, Clevland DC, home town is not far from mine. I've talked with him and his son Blake when Blake was at D2 William Jewell. They'd talk about how when they ran NCAA they had 1.9 seconds to hit home but could never get their till 2.2 with the athletes they had and never really had an answer on what they would actually do if it wasn't working.
Long story short I came away with nothing.
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2017 11:18:08 GMT -6
NFL and D1 coaches don't have much to offer to HS guys. I never learn much, if anything from them. Greg Williams, Clevland DC, home town is not far from mine. I've talked with him and his son Blake when Blake was at D2 William Jewell. They'd talk about how when they ran NCAA they had 1.9 seconds to hit home but could never get their till 2.2 with the athletes they had and never really had an answer on what they would actually do if it wasn't working. Long story short I came away with nothing. I disagree. I've gotten a lot from high level coaches. Hell, our base defense is Virginia Tech G. We had to tweak it to fit our situation. Sometimes those tweaks were pretty serious because they did answer some questions with, "We don't see that", but our defense is essentially their defense. Now, you can't get that in a one hour talk but I've gotten an awful lot of good ideas from one hour presentations.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 14, 2017 11:32:16 GMT -6
You're also competing against those jimmy and Joe's so it's pretty relative. I get that, but what you are able to do with 11 D1s on defense is alot different than if your FS is 5'6 145 and runs a 4.9. Isn't that a given? What I was getting at was that D1 defense is going against a D1 offense and need to do those advanced things to compete.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 14, 2017 11:32:46 GMT -6
I wouldn't have walked out but I probably would have popped off an email to that coach and/or the folks that ran the clinic the next week. You paid money to be at that clinic: he should have tried to accommodate your question in same fashion.
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2017 11:45:57 GMT -6
I wouldn't have walked out but I probably would have popped off an email to that coach and/or the folks that ran the clinic the next week. You paid money to be at that clinic: he should have tried to accommodate your question in same fashion. But if he really doesn't have an answer do you really want to listen to the guy bullchit you?
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 14, 2017 12:12:47 GMT -6
It's funny, I get relatively little out of HS coaches much of the time. Nobody I face runs a 50, I don't need a spot to hide a kid, I don't have a use for an offense that employs a 150# guard.
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Post by blitzology on Jan 14, 2017 12:32:28 GMT -6
Sometimes "we don't really see that look" is clinic speak for I don't want to talk about that. Some coaches are very secretive about their scheme and thought process. They want to share what is in the presentation and that is all. Coaching scholarship ball is not easy and there are great coaches doing it. Many of them think sharing what they do might hurt them on the field which could cost them their job. True or not, when you think your income is on the line you change your behavior.
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 14, 2017 13:58:05 GMT -6
Most of those guys are trying to make a few extra bucks and then they are out of there on a plane,
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Post by adawg2302 on Jan 14, 2017 15:30:37 GMT -6
Man, after reading the title of this thread, I was hoping it was going to be a post about a bar fight between an OC and DC in a "who has the chalk last" argument on a napkin.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 14, 2017 16:37:25 GMT -6
Here's the deal you atrent gonna get much out of a big time D1 guy taking scheme for an hour at the Beer Of The Year clinic. It usually part of their endorsement deal to speak at X number of clinics for said endorser, they fly in a few hours before they speak and are in a car back to the airport once they step off stage. You really wanna pick their brain try and visit (which if you don't have a connection or big recruit isn't the easiest thing to do) or go to their clinic. Sure some will be good, Ferentz from Iowa on OL was great but that was more fundamentals than scheme and some guys like that.
Wouldn't get bent about it, those guys usually aren't there by choice.
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Post by bignose on Jan 14, 2017 17:04:09 GMT -6
Many years ago, I was a the local Glazier Clinic listening to Big Name Famous Coach from Enormous State University. His discussion was about his Death Dealing Goal line Defense. His personnel talent level was pretty incredible, several high draft choices including two future Hall of Famers. And he was bragging on them big time.
One of the members of the audience asked: "What would you do if you didn't have these type of athletes?" The reply was: "I wouldn't run this defense!"
I swear half of the audience got up and walked out on him.
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Post by Sparkey on Jan 14, 2017 18:02:44 GMT -6
Several years ago, I attended a coaching clinic with some buddies. Joker Phillips was speaking, as he was the HC at Kentucky at the time, so we decided to go and check out what he was doing. At the meeting, he was showing how they were blocking zone away from trips. He drew up several instances with 2-high safeties and a stacked LB on the weak side, with the tackle and the guard combo-ing up from the DE to the LB. I asked him how they would handle it if they got 1-high safety and a force player to the weak side. His response was THEY DON'T SEE THAT! I immediately got up and left the meeting with my pals. I'd like to take this opportunity to vent a bit, after one of my buddies who was there brought it up today. Am I crazy? Am I wrong to think that it's an uncommon look? As a HS coach, I rarely see an edge without a force player. Actually, after 10 years as an OC and 10 more years as an assistant, I've only faced it a handful of times. Also, he was coaching in the SEC. They see EVERYTHING. I can't tell you how much it chapped my butt to have this guy act like I was crazy to suggest that they might have a force player rather than a stack away from trips. What'd I miss? To be honest with you coachbleu, I think you may have some ego issues. JMHO
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Post by coachklee on Jan 14, 2017 18:18:17 GMT -6
I'd walk out...there's cold beer somewhere.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 14, 2017 19:46:50 GMT -6
My experience has been...I get very little from big time college coaches. If I had their jimmys and Joes, I could do a lot of s***. I have 35 kids. Really 16 guys who can play. Now help me scheme.... That's why I like listening to the smaller college guys and high school guys.
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