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Post by John Knight on Jan 8, 2017 9:55:07 GMT -6
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 8, 2017 12:17:48 GMT -6
The guy is getting old and his comedic timing is off. Bowden would've told that joke ten or so years ago and it would've been funny. Newspaper looking for readers in the fake shock culture demographic.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 8, 2017 20:25:23 GMT -6
Why does the media want to make it like you're insulting anyone when you say the that single parent families are hurting our culture overall?
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Post by 53 on Jan 8, 2017 21:45:02 GMT -6
Why does the media want to make it like you're insulting anyone when you say the that single parent families are hurting our culture overall? Self reliance and personal responsibility isn't too high on public policy anymore, and society views them as victims or romanticizes them. It's one of the biggest risk factors to living in poverty and becoming cycle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 20:52:19 GMT -6
Why does the media want to make it like you're insulting anyone when you say the that single parent families are hurting our culture overall? Because 1/4 of families now are single parent families and they feel insulted. Less than half of all families (46%) are two people in their first marriage raising kids, and a significant portion of those were single parent homes before mom married someone other than their baby's father. Plus that was an angle for the writer of the article to use to sensationalize things and get attention. If you take the "insulting" angle out, what do you have? "87 Year Old Retired Coach Makes Lame Joke During Interview." Yeah, that'll get clicks...
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 10, 2017 7:37:50 GMT -6
I really don't see what the big deal is. I brought this point up at school one day and I could tell many people were insulted. I don't know how you could be insulted by someone saying its better for a loving father and mother to be in the home than otherwise. Its not a death sentence, its just not ideal. We had an assistant principal talking about how many single parents struggle to get their kids to read because they work multiple jobs and don't have the time to read to them (it was a meeting on low reading scores). I commented that one of the reasons it was so hard was because it wasn't supposed to be that way. It doesn't make you a bad person if you grew up that way or if your situation now is that way as a parent. It just means its not ideal and there are consequences for it. Since becoming a father I have read a few books on fatherhood and the research is really clear when people actually acknowledge it. Its not politically correct but its true. Girls and boys need a loving father in the home and it makes a difference. Does it work every time? No it doesn't but neither does toss read and its a great play. You dont have to point to this guy or that guy who made it even though they had one parent. Its pretty obvious that its not the ideal way to raise kids. Our 9th grade OC ran toss read to 3 unblocked defenders and they still scored. That doesn't mean it was the best way to do it. This is more of people just looking to be offended. One of the biggest things I am trying to teach my kids now is to not get their feelings hurt by what other people do or say. To me, its part of the toughness that fathers need to instill in their children. But then again maybe thats why so many people are offended?
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 10, 2017 10:36:03 GMT -6
I think people get "insulted" because it's like you're insulting the women by bringing it up. But statistics are statistics and products of single parent homes just don't fare real well historically.
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Post by lions23 on Jan 10, 2017 13:27:47 GMT -6
If you start with a major Division 1 student athlete who competes at perhaps the highest level or second highest level of the world simultaneously earning a degree how would you characterize that person? Smart, tough, ambitious, hardworking, etc... then where do you think those characteristics were instilled and developed? Perhaps through that person's family. Then you start talking about that same person and start talking about his family as somehow initially deficient because it is without a dad then you might understand the insult. Like Larry said that the mere fact that he brought it up especially surrounding such successful student athletes sort of implies that the kids he coached were somehow deficient.
Also if statistics show that single parent kids are less likely to succeed and the kids Bowden coached would probably be considered at least over achievers then bringing this up seems upsetting to the hard work their mothers did to insure that these young men were successful despite statistics that might be damning.
Bomani Jones had an interesting response on the LeBetard Show. It is worth listening to or reading.
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 11, 2017 4:15:34 GMT -6
If you start with a major Division 1 student athlete who competes at perhaps the highest level or second highest level of the world simultaneously earning a degree how would you characterize that person? Smart, tough, ambitious, hardworking, etc... then where do you think those characteristics were instilled and developed? Perhaps through that person's family. Then you start talking about that same person and start talking about his family as somehow initially deficient because it is without a dad then you might understand the insult. Like Larry said that the mere fact that he brought it up especially surrounding such successful student athletes sort of implies that the kids he coached were somehow deficient. Also if statistics show that single parent kids are less likely to succeed and the kids Bowden coached would probably be considered at least over achievers then bringing this up seems upsetting to the hard work their mothers did to insure that these young men were successful despite statistics that might be damning. Bomani Jones had an interesting response on the LeBetard Show. It is worth listening to or reading. The only way they were "deficient" is in their start. It has nothing to do with them as human beings. I've spent most of my career in a low socioeconomic setting. 15 players over the past 3 years have been arrested or shot. Two were just arrested for murder last week. Ive seen this play out first hand. If fed players, picked them up, washed their clothes, bought underwear and toothe paste. This is an epidemic in this country and if people could maybe spend less time being offended we could actually start to fix the problem. What he was saying is that one parent households are not the ideal way to raise children. That really can't be argued with. He definitely could have said it better and without the earring comment but the meat of his point was very true. All kids need fathers but it's not a death sentence. But if there is not a dad in the picture, something will fill that void. Sometimes it's a coach but many times, especially around here it's gangs.
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Post by lions23 on Jan 11, 2017 13:08:59 GMT -6
The only way they were "deficient" is in their start. It has nothing to do with them as human beings. I've spent most of my career in a low socioeconomic setting. 15 players over the past 3 years have been arrested or shot. Two were just arrested for murder last week. Ive seen this play out first hand. If fed players, picked them up, washed their clothes, bought underwear and toothe paste. This is an epidemic in this country and if people could maybe spend less time being offended we could actually start to fix the problem. What he was saying is that one parent households are not the ideal way to raise children. That really can't be argued with. He definitely could have said it better and without the earring comment but the meat of his point was very true. All kids need fathers but it's not a death sentence. But if there is not a dad in the picture, something will fill that void. Sometimes it's a coach but many times, especially around here it's gangs.
I am right there with you brother and I work in a similar place. I appreciate what you have done and seen. I have had the same experience with my athletes.
Others were asking why there are people who are offended or insulted. I am trying to explain or understand the "insulted" peoples point of view and explain it. Just because one says something that doesn't mean that it was heard the way it was intended. Everyone who is married understands that. My point is not that single parent homes are not ideal. I agree that if there are two loving normal parents at home things generally turn out better. Developmental Psychology and statistics point to the effectiveness of 2 parent homes under normal circumstances. I am not arguing facts as much I am trying to understand the other point of view.
I agree with the general point Bowden was trying to make and yours about 2 parent homes. However, I think considering the success of his student athletes it may have seemed to them to diminish their families' resilience. The joke at the end that he used at the end might not have helped. One on one with players he had relationship with it probably got laughs but a blanket statement about young men with ear rings wanting to be a man like their momma probably seemed even more insulting. Now you have these tough young men he is teasing for being like women.
Then there is the fact that most of his players he is talking about are black. Often the single parent absent daddy is used to describe the cause of problems within the African American community. Some responses to Bowden like Bomani Jones of ESPN have claimed that the absent father is too simplistic. He begs the question to why are there absent fathers and divorce within our society and that it is a problem within many demographics but often only applied as a problem within the African American communities. Jones points to the economic and financial struggle within our country as a bigger burden among families compared to single parents.
So if we look at statistics the highest rate of single parent home exists among African Americans, but perhaps in correlation joblessness is also highest among African Americans in our society. Finances are among the top reasons for relationship strife and stress among families. This was Jones' arguement. African Americans also make about 3/4 compared to white men and 3/5 compared to white women. These are facts. We could argue that adding two parents the financial situation for the single parent student is improved. Agreed.
There has been assumption for a long time in our society that the largest risk factor for black students is that of single parents and that may not be the case. Other risk factors including economics and parents' education level and total absence of biological parents might be bigger risk factors as far as student success is concerned.
In other words-single moms may not be the problem. Thus the insult. The single parents are the ones stepping up. I don't think that is what Bowden was trying to say, but that is how it was heard by many.
Also, there are arguments among the black community that the single black parent presents a much smaller burden on the society based on sheer numbers compared to white single parents. Though the percentage of single parents may be higher among black students, white single parent homes makes up a larger total number. Jones kept begging the question recently why didn't anyone question Grayson Allen's upbringing and daddy.
Also, I think we have to be careful telling others who have a different experience or perspective that they are not allowed to be outraged. perhaps if we asked them why they were outraged we might find that we have similar values and solutions might be easier to come by. Starting from the premise that YOU are wrong is tough way to begin problem solving together.
Also, I don't think that people are generally more outraged or more sensitive. The difference now is that everyone has a microphone. Everyone can share their opinion in many different forms of personal media.
So to end my rant what I am trying to say is that single parent homes are not ideal. I agree. However, for many who are trying to understand or solve the issues within our society will claim that it doesn't fully address many of the other economic problems within the society and perhaps it even perpetuates the problem by ignoring the economic issues.
Sincerely and genuinely I appreciate your commitment to help your student athletes Coach Floyd. You are truly living example of trying to solve the problem.
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 11, 2017 13:22:55 GMT -6
I assumed the offensive parts were: -the part about guys wearing earings because they want to be women -implying that these young men grow up wanting to be like their mothers Incidentally, it has been my experience that single mothers are some of the toughest, fiercest individuals in this world and I mean that as a compliment I certainly have nothing against fathers...I am one . But I have to admit I felt that he was implying that women are too weak too raise sons on their own.
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 11, 2017 13:46:22 GMT -6
I assumed the offensive parts were: -the part about guys wearing earings because they want to be women -implying that these young men grow up wanting to be like their mothers Incidentally, it has been my experience that single mothers are some of the toughest, fiercest individuals in this world and I mean that as a compliment I certainly have nothing against fathers...I am one . But I have to admit I felt that he was implying that women are too weak too raise sons on their own. I think hes wrong about the whole earring thing. I don't think that has anything to do with anything. I agree about single mothers but I can tell you there is a HUGE difference between how my wife interacts with our kids and how I do and they can't do anything if they are constantly working multiple jobs. I do think they are too weak to raise them on their own. For the record I think men are too. Thats my whole belief in a nutshell. It takes both to do it right. Honestly the cause of this is unmarried sex. Alot of these situations don't occur because of divorce. They occur in situations where the parents never have any intention of getting and staying married. And then many of these people do it again and again. My wife and I had twins. Two years later we had twins again. We figured out what was causing it and put a stop to that in a hurry.
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 11, 2017 13:53:29 GMT -6
The only way they were "deficient" is in their start. It has nothing to do with them as human beings. I've spent most of my career in a low socioeconomic setting. 15 players over the past 3 years have been arrested or shot. Two were just arrested for murder last week. Ive seen this play out first hand. If fed players, picked them up, washed their clothes, bought underwear and toothe paste. This is an epidemic in this country and if people could maybe spend less time being offended we could actually start to fix the problem. What he was saying is that one parent households are not the ideal way to raise children. That really can't be argued with. He definitely could have said it better and without the earring comment but the meat of his point was very true. All kids need fathers but it's not a death sentence. But if there is not a dad in the picture, something will fill that void. Sometimes it's a coach but many times, especially around here it's gangs. I am right there with you brother and I work in a similar place. I appreciate what you have done and seen. I have had the same experience with my athletes. Others were asking why there are people who are offended or insulted. I am trying to explain or understand the "insulted" peoples point of view and explain it. Just because one says something that doesn't mean that it was heard the way it was intended. Everyone who is married understands that. My point is not that single parent homes are not ideal. I agree that if there are two loving normal parents at home things generally turn out better. Developmental Psychology and statistics point to the effectiveness of 2 parent homes under normal circumstances. I am not arguing facts as much I am trying to understand the other point of view. I agree with the general point Bowden was trying to make and yours about 2 parent homes. However, I think considering the success of his student athletes it may have seemed to them to diminish their families' resilience. The joke at the end that he used at the end might not have helped. One on one with players he had relationship with it probably got laughs but a blanket statement about young men with ear rings wanting to be a man like their momma probably seemed even more insulting. Now you have these tough young men he is teasing for being like women. Then there is the fact that most of his players he is talking about are black. Often the single parent absent daddy is used to describe the cause of problems within the African American community. Some responses to Bowden like Bomani Jones of ESPN have claimed that the absent father is too simplistic. He begs the question to why are there absent fathers and divorce within our society and that it is a problem within many demographics but often only applied as a problem within the African American communities. Jones points to the economic and financial struggle within our country as a bigger burden among families compared to single parents. So if we look at statistics the highest rate of single parent home exists among African Americans, but perhaps in correlation joblessness is also highest among African Americans in our society. Finances are among the top reasons for relationship strife and stress among families. This was Jones' arguement. African Americans also make about 3/4 compared to white men and 3/5 compared to white women. These are facts. We could argue that adding two parents the financial situation for the single parent student is improved. Agreed. There has been assumption for a long time in our society that the largest risk factor for black students is that of single parents and that may not be the case. Other risk factors including economics and parents' education level and total absence of biological parents might be bigger risk factors as far as student success is concerned. In other words-single moms may not be the problem. Thus the insult. The single parents are the ones stepping up. I don't think that is what Bowden was trying to say, but that is how it was heard by many. Also, there are arguments among the black community that the single black parent presents a much smaller burden on the society based on sheer numbers compared to white single parents. Though the percentage of single parents may be higher among black students, white single parent homes makes up a larger total number. Jones kept begging the question recently why didn't anyone question Grayson Allen's upbringing and daddy. Also, I think we have to be careful telling others who have a different experience or perspective that they are not allowed to be outraged. perhaps if we asked them why they were outraged we might find that we have similar values and solutions might be easier to come by. Starting from the premise that YOU are wrong is tough way to begin problem solving together. Also, I don't think that people are generally more outraged or more sensitive. The difference now is that everyone has a microphone. Everyone can share their opinion in many different forms of personal media. So to end my rant what I am trying to say is that single parent homes are not ideal. I agree. However, for many who are trying to understand or solve the issues within our society will claim that it doesn't fully address many of the other economic problems within the society and perhaps it even perpetuates the problem by ignoring the economic issues. Sincerely and genuinely I appreciate your commitment to help your student athletes Coach Floyd. You are truly living example of trying to solve the problem. Very good post. I do think there are many factors and some are generational. But fixing fathers can get things going in the right direction now! Not having kids when you aren't financially ready can help right now. My QB got offered by Army. I wanted him to go there and the biggest selling point was that this is going to change your family tree. Also not to nitpick but I never trust those pay differences that are reported. Ive never seen that with black vs. white but I know with men vs. women they take total money earned and divided it by the number working. They don't take into account people like my wife who stay at home on purpose. We may all come at it from a different perspective but I know we all agree that its a problem that needs to be fixed.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 11, 2017 14:59:06 GMT -6
My brother and I were raised by a single mother and we both have Masters degrees and professional careers. I have many friends and acquaintances that were raised in two parent households and they haven't done well in life. I have several students who have been raised solely by their fathers and have been royal screw-ups. I don't take offense to what Coach Bowden said but it's also a generalization, even with the statistics to "back it up".
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 8:04:34 GMT -6
My brother and I were raised by a single mother and we both have Masters degrees and professional careers. I have many friends and acquaintances that were raised in two parent households and they haven't done well in life. I have several students who have been raised solely by their fathers and have been royal screw-ups. I don't take offense to what Coach Bowden said but it's also a generalization, even with the statistics to "back it up". Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent.
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Post by fantom on Jan 12, 2017 8:17:46 GMT -6
My brother and I were raised by a single mother and we both have Masters degrees and professional careers. I have many friends and acquaintances that were raised in two parent households and they haven't done well in life. I have several students who have been raised solely by their fathers and have been royal screw-ups. I don't take offense to what Coach Bowden said but it's also a generalization, even with the statistics to "back it up". Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Is there something that any of us can do about this?
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 12, 2017 8:39:06 GMT -6
Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Is there something that any of us can do about this? I think we can help the next generation not be like this. In my mind it comes down to premarital sex. its not politically correct to preach abstinence but its the only thing that works. Look at my avatar at the two smallest kids. When birth control says 99.9% when you use it right, that's what they mean. I know Im old fashioned and my beliefs are informed by my religion but I think it holds up. I always talk about doing things in order. Graduate, go to college and/or get a steady job, get married, get established, then have kids. If you mess up that order, its going to be harder. I did things in order and its still incredibly hard. The combined mileage on my 2 vehicles is 340,000. The only clothes I wear are clothes Ive been given for coaching. We eat peanut butter and jelly for half our meals every week. And I work in GA where the teaching and coaching pay is very good. I couldn't imagine what it would be like if I was still trying to finish school as a single parent with 4 kids. Its not supposed to work that way and thats why its so difficult. people can absolutely help getting into that situation.
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Post by brophy on Jan 12, 2017 9:11:31 GMT -6
Its not that single-mothers can't raise kids/boys. I think what Bowden was saying, and I agree with, is many boys raised in these households are raised around a woman and groups of women so that boy takes on a lot of feminine social practices. He's catty, vain, self-absorbed and not willing to invest a lot when confronted with hardship. That is what Bowden was driving at when he made the earring comment. When you talk to those kid's mothers you see exactly where they got it from. What you get is some athletes that are more concerned about Instagram selfies than shutting up and putting in work.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 12, 2017 10:16:39 GMT -6
My brother and I were raised by a single mother and we both have Masters degrees and professional careers. I have many friends and acquaintances that were raised in two parent households and they haven't done well in life. I have several students who have been raised solely by their fathers and have been royal screw-ups. I don't take offense to what Coach Bowden said but it's also a generalization, even with the statistics to "back it up". Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Yup. A "statistical" anomaly. One cannot make a generalization about ALL single parent families based off of even the most conclusive studies. Correlation does not equate to causation.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 10:28:19 GMT -6
Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Yup. A "statistical" anomaly. One cannot make a generalization about ALL single parent families based off of even the most conclusive studies. Correlation does not equate to causation. When 30-40 years of data say 75%ish of single parent family kids end up in bad situations, your story of success is the outlier. Sorry. Your argument is basically this right now- Statistics- 75% of people who don't wear safety goggles while using a table saw end up with debris in their eyes and have vision issues. You- "Don't listen to them, I did it once, so it can happen."
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 10:29:18 GMT -6
Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Is there something that any of us can do about this? I don't know that there is until society as a whole changes their views on marriage and single parent families. That doesn't seem to be likely to happen any time soon.
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Post by brophy on Jan 12, 2017 10:49:02 GMT -6
the issue really isn't single-parent, inasmuch as it means single-income. The root issue is economic and a culture of poverty that undermines education and contributes to crime / at-risk behavior.
Its hard enough raising children with two professional earners at home. It becomes increasingly challenging if those two earners have little education, limiting their earning potential. Now, take that limited earner and make it a single mother, with, at-best, only a high school diploma and you have a perfect recipe for perpetual poverty. You have a broke idiot raising broke idiots....what did you think was going to happen?
Kids are great. Raising kids is expensive. Marriage is an economic incorporation, many would say is vital for covering that business expense (of raising a child).
Regardless of feelings or moral beliefs, the economic bottom line is the truth here
So if you want to preach something to kids, preach the financial ceiling anchor raising kids is. Stop celebrating being broke. Embrace education and achievement. Nothing will rob both of those like more (economic) responsibility.
A 16 year old girl having a baby should be considered as dumb as that same kid purchasing a house (without the financial capital to do so). What BOWDEN is referring to in this article is the emotional and mental immaturity that boys pick up from adult teen girls who never grew up.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 12, 2017 10:56:15 GMT -6
Yup. A "statistical" anomaly. One cannot make a generalization about ALL single parent families based off of even the most conclusive studies. Correlation does not equate to causation. When 30-40 years of data say 75%ish of single parent family kids end up in bad situations, your story of success is the outlier. Sorry. Your argument is basically this right now- Statistics- 75% of people who don't wear safety goggles while using a table saw end up with debris in their eyes and have vision issues. You- "Don't listen to them, I did it once, so it can happen." There's a world of difference between telling a single parent family that they're probably going to fail in some manner and telling someone not to where safety goggles. You can actually DO something about the safety goggles. But, you can't look at a single parent family and assume that their kids will be _ ups.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 12, 2017 11:13:26 GMT -6
No it doesn't always work but neither does toss read. WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Clemson runs this play coach!! Are you sure? I am so confused. This is what I am planning on doing!! Heck ya. TD's!! Confused again.
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Post by somecoach on Jan 12, 2017 11:14:39 GMT -6
Congratulations, but you are statistical anomaly. There's really not an argument. There's decades of research and results showing kids with two parent families overwhelmingly do better than one parent. Is there something that any of us can do about this? one thing we are already doing is coaching football. at times we are these boys' only male authority figure/role model We should be building them into the men of the future... through the game of football another thing is obviously starting with our own kids lives
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 12:53:58 GMT -6
When 30-40 years of data say 75%ish of single parent family kids end up in bad situations, your story of success is the outlier. Sorry. Your argument is basically this right now- Statistics- 75% of people who don't wear safety goggles while using a table saw end up with debris in their eyes and have vision issues. You- "Don't listen to them, I did it once, so it can happen." There's a world of difference between telling a single parent family that they're probably going to fail in some manner and telling someone not to where safety goggles. You can actually DO something about the safety goggles. But, you can't look at a single parent family and assume that their kids will be _ ups. Statistically speaking, you definitely can. There are a whole host of red flags that you can raise when looking at someone's childhood that, as the data shows, pretty much determines their future. Single parent, substance abuse parent, low income, low education, etc- any combination of those and the likely hood of future success is pretty bleak. Are there anomalies? Yes, but since you didn't like my first analogy how about this one- Statistics say 75% of people who smoke will develop lung cancer. You- "My uncle smoked a pack every day for 20 years. Those stats don't prove anything"
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Post by coachcb on Jan 12, 2017 12:55:47 GMT -6
There's a world of difference between telling a single parent family that they're probably going to fail in some manner and telling someone not to where safety goggles. You can actually DO something about the safety goggles. But, you can't look at a single parent family and assume that their kids will be _ ups. Statistically speaking, you definitely can. There are a whole host of red flags that you can raise when looking at someone's childhood that, as the data shows, pretty much determines their future. Alright. You walk up to a single parent of a player and tell them that their kid is going to struggle in life because of it. See how well that goes for you.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 12:58:17 GMT -6
Statistically speaking, you definitely can. There are a whole host of red flags that you can raise when looking at someone's childhood that, as the data shows, pretty much determines their future. Alright. You walk up to a single parent of a player and tell them that their kid is going to struggle in life because of it. See how well that goes for you. Will do. I mean, truth and statistical proof trump feelings every time. I don't know how you can argue the facts.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 12, 2017 13:03:30 GMT -6
Alright. You walk up to a single parent of a player and tell them that their kid is going to struggle in life because of it. See how well that goes for you. Will do. I mean, truth and statistical proof trump feelings every time. I don't know how you can argue the facts. Because, AGAIN, statistics don't PROVE anything. They show a relationship between two variables. They do not show a CAUSATION they show CORRELATION. This is something that is taught in the absolute most basic statistics courses in high school and college. You cannot infer anything about a single individual in a population based off a sample of that population.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 12, 2017 13:06:02 GMT -6
Ok. So you think your insurance rates are set because the company knows you as a person?
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