|
Post by jgordon1 on Dec 21, 2016 9:24:08 GMT -6
www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/12/20/14034612/western-kentucky-fake-kneel-play-boca-raton-bowlI thought it was the cheapest play I have ever seen. Not the play itself but when it was called. It is understood for the safety of the players when a team lines up in a "victory" formation at the end of the half or a game they will be running out the clock and for the safety of the players do not rush. To me its a lot different than a fake spike . IMO they have just made it dangerous for their own team because if I am playing them no matter the score I am just going to all out blitz cut their offensive line and attack their qb because it just might be a real play Thoughts
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2016 9:28:10 GMT -6
I agree 100%
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Dec 21, 2016 10:08:30 GMT -6
This is exactly why I don't let the refs tell my guys to back off on kneel down plays. There is no rule that says you have to go half speed and not make contact. To top it off, if the offense fumbles, I want to be in a position to recover.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2016 10:09:48 GMT -6
www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/12/20/14034612/western-kentucky-fake-kneel-play-boca-raton-bowlI thought it was the cheapest play I have ever seen. Not the play itself but when it was called. It is understood for the safety of the players when a team lines up in a "victory" formation at the end of the half or a game they will be running out the clock and for the safety of the players do not rush. To me its a lot different than a fake spike . IMO they have just made it dangerous for their own team because if I am playing them no matter the score I am just going to all out blitz cut their offensive line and attack their qb because it just might be a real play Thoughts Thought the exact same thing when I saw it this morning on ESPN. Often in these situations, the officials are telling the defense, "lay off, they are taking a knee". Would be interesting to know if WKU said they were talking a knee before running the play. If they did, this is completely the same as the "Hey Coach, this is the wrong ball" play that is now illegal.
|
|
|
Post by coach55 on Dec 21, 2016 10:17:47 GMT -6
This is just not the way you do things!
|
|
|
Post by pistolwhipped on Dec 21, 2016 11:23:23 GMT -6
Got a strange feeling that some of y'all will be dogging McCaffery for quitting early, and are mad at EKU for playing the whole quarter?
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 21, 2016 11:54:15 GMT -6
I don't like it.
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 21, 2016 12:41:01 GMT -6
They just changed coaches, did Brohm already leave for Purdue?
I wonder who actually made the call to do that, seems like the interim coach might have been sitting on that idea to seem clever for the last 20 years
I feel like if Washington had done that to score a touchdown against Alabama (big game, definite underdog), I would have thought it was pretty clever, this seems like an underwhelming spot to use that, though maybe this was the interim coach's first chance to call it
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 21, 2016 12:43:33 GMT -6
Got a strange feeling that some of y'all will be dogging McCaffery for quitting early, and are mad at EKU for playing the whole quarter? That is comparing apples to razors.
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 21, 2016 13:00:35 GMT -6
I guess the interim coach was Nick Holt "BOCA RATON, Fla. -- The Western Kentucky Hilltoppers threw to their tackle, ran a trick play from their victory formation and kept scoring touchdowns for Nick Holt, their one-and-done interim coach. Senior Anthony Wales gained 329 yards from scrimmage and Western Kentucky earned a bowl victory for the third year in a row by beating Memphis 51-31 Tuesday night in the Boca Raton Bowl. "Coach Holt gave us great energy," Wales said. "We all love him, and we were able to show everybody how great we are."" www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400876043He was the Head Coach at Idaho in 2004 and 2005, left to go be the DC at USC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Holt
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 13:11:56 GMT -6
im actually not against this at all.
the kneel is just another play. and unless the ref is standing over the ball, you have to treat it like another play.
when i was DC i told my defenses the same thing. Reads, Keys, Reactions. unless the ref is standing over the ball, go hard.
|
|
|
Post by 90rocket on Dec 21, 2016 13:17:09 GMT -6
If they told the refs they were taking a knee then this is absolute crap. If not, well there's 48 seconds left in the first half and the opposing team should have been ready for anything. IMO this is much different than taking a knee at the end of the game.
|
|
|
Post by pistolwhipped on Dec 21, 2016 13:18:27 GMT -6
Got a strange feeling that some of y'all will be dogging McCaffery for quitting early, and are mad at EKU for playing the whole quarter? That is comparing apples to razors. You getting the comparison makes it closer than you think lol.
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 13:23:36 GMT -6
If they told the refs they were taking a knee then this is absolute crap. If not, well there's 48 seconds left in the first half and the opposing team should have been ready for anything. IMO this is much different than taking a knee at the end of the game. i highly doubt they did. only because if they did it would be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty if i understand the "attempt to deceive" rule correctly.
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Dec 21, 2016 14:03:08 GMT -6
If they told the refs they were taking a knee then this is absolute crap. If not, well there's 48 seconds left in the first half and the opposing team should have been ready for anything. IMO this is much different than taking a knee at the end of the game. the college clock operates a little different than in HS.. in reality that was the last time they had to snap the ball...
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 21, 2016 14:27:44 GMT -6
The refs usually take the initiative in high school and will ask the offense if they're taking a knee. What would your team do in that situation? They have to lie and say yes right? If the ref said anything about a knee to the the defense then I think it's a bush league move.
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 14:36:54 GMT -6
The refs usually take the initiative in high school and will ask the offense if they're taking a knee. What would your team do in that situation? They have to lie and say yes right? If the ref said anything about a knee to the the defense then I think it's a bush league move. if they lie and say yes, any ref should call that an unfair act.... (in NFHS anyway) "Either team commits an act which in the opinion of the Referee tends to make a travesty of the game" under NCAA Rules i think it would be the quarterback who would receive an unsportsmanlike conduct.
|
|
|
Post by 3rdandlong on Dec 21, 2016 15:11:11 GMT -6
You do what you do to gain an advantage. There is nothing wrong with this play IF the coach did not tell the ref they were taking a knee. I know that often times, coaches tell refs when they'll be taking a knee in order for refs to keep the opponent off their guys. This play did not look like the refs weee doing that
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 15:15:38 GMT -6
You do what you do to gain an advantage. There is nothing wrong with this play IF the coach did not tell the ref they were taking a knee. I know that often times, coaches tell refs when they'll be taking a knee in order for refs to keep the opponent off their guys. This play did not look like the refs weee doing that exactly, the refs werent in any position that led me to believe they were told it was a kneel.
|
|
|
Post by morris on Dec 21, 2016 17:44:35 GMT -6
I don't like it. I'm going to go with the refs didn't care for it either. The next playbwhere they take the shot at the endzone should of been a TD. Instead the Red let them lay on the ground fighting it out to call it a touch back.
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 18:31:54 GMT -6
I don't like it. I'm going to go with the refs didn't care for it either. The next playbwhere they take the shot at the endzone should of been a TD. Instead the Red let them lay on the ground fighting it out to call it a touch back. i just dont see a difference between this and a fake punt....
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Dec 21, 2016 18:50:06 GMT -6
If I ran a play like that I would be certain to inform the officials ahead of time.
Usually when we go into take a knee formation, the refs tell the defense to back off. I've seen too many "heroes" launch themselves over the center to kill the QB, and the refs will do what they can to protect him, but this now makes him fair game, again.
It struck me as a both a clever ploy and kinda bush league at the same time. The kind of play that can create hard feelings between schools….it's different in a Bowl game where you may never play the team again or come across the other coaches, but if someone in my league pulled a play like that, believe me, I would remember it. And when the time comes to return the favor……...
|
|
|
Post by 53 on Dec 21, 2016 18:57:07 GMT -6
Tennessee won a national championship because of Arkansas screwing up taking a knee.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Dec 21, 2016 18:59:10 GMT -6
I think the bigger picture here will be that there will be a rule change at all levels, in which refs will ask all offensive teams with 'X' amount of time in the half or game whether or not they are going to run out the clock. If they choose to do so then the QB must immediately take a knee when receiving the snap and neither side can cross the LOS unless there is a fumble (in which case the offense may not advance the ball). If the QB does not immediately take a knee then it will be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, clock stopped and loss of down; any player who crosses the LOS (unless a fumble) will be assessed an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and risk ejection.
This will be done in the name of safety, as now that this play has gone viral all coaches will be harping on going full speed on kneel downs. Hopefully this will alleviate any BS like we saw in New Mexico a month ago
|
|
|
Post by morris on Dec 21, 2016 19:28:48 GMT -6
I don't like it. I'm going to go with the refs didn't care for it either. The next playbwhere they take the shot at the endzone should of been a TD. Instead the Red let them lay on the ground fighting it out to call it a touch back. i just dont see a difference between this and a fake punt.... It honestly comes down to how much they tried to sell it. Like you said before if they said they were taking a knee it would be s penalty. Now we play the play. If it is a score or less we play the play.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 21, 2016 19:36:46 GMT -6
The refs usually take the initiative in high school and will ask the offense if they're taking a knee. What would your team do in that situation? They have to lie and say yes right? If the ref said anything about a knee to the the defense then I think it's a bush league move. Depends where you are, I guess. Never had an official ask if we're taking a knee.
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on Dec 21, 2016 19:42:56 GMT -6
I think the bigger picture here will be that there will be a rule change at all levels, in which refs will ask all offensive teams with 'X' amount of time in the half or game whether or not they are going to run out the clock. If they choose to do so then the QB must immediately take a knee when receiving the snap and neither side can cross the LOS unless there is a fumble (in which case the offense may not advance the ball). If the QB does not immediately take a knee then it will be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, clock stopped and loss of down; any player who crosses the LOS (unless a fumble) will be assessed an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and risk ejection. This will be done in the name of safety, as now that this play has gone viral all coaches will be harping on going full speed on kneel downs. Hopefully this will alleviate any BS like we saw in New Mexico a month ago i think thats alittle over the top. we have to remember conceptually what a "Kneel" is. its a run play in which the QB chooses to fall down....this can be done from any formation, at any point in a game, and at any Down & Distance. now, have we made concessions for Obvious Kneel situations? sure. but should you expect a kneel every time an offense gets into a certain set? no........... you have to prepare your kids. when i was DC i talked to my DB's a lot about playing the game even when it looks like a play isnt going to happen...because you never know when someone is going to throw a TE vertical from a victory formation....
|
|
|
Post by 3rdandlong on Dec 21, 2016 20:52:59 GMT -6
Here's the other thing, it also doesn't look like the QB ever faked taking a knee at all. Sure they are in victory formation, but he starts running as soon as he gets the snap from the center. Looks a lot like one of Malzhan's trick plays he did a few years back.
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 22, 2016 8:12:11 GMT -6
The refs usually take the initiative in high school and will ask the offense if they're taking a knee. What would your team do in that situation? They have to lie and say yes right? If the ref said anything about a knee to the the defense then I think it's a bush league move. Depends where you are, I guess. Never had an official ask if we're taking a knee. If it's a knee situation here, the white hat usually will ask the players in the huddle if they're taking a knee, not the coaches.
|
|
48
Freshmen Member
Posts: 48
|
Post by 48 on Dec 22, 2016 9:38:02 GMT -6
So what if the ref asked the kids (and/or coach) if they were taking a knee and they told him "no"? Would it then be morally okay?
|
|