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Post by coachphillip on Dec 13, 2016 17:35:02 GMT -6
I was reading another thread and have seen many times where coaches talk about watching film and gathering "tells". I always thought something was wrong with me because I NEVER can see that kind of stuff. Maybe, I thought, it's just because I don't know what I'm looking for. So, I pose this question to you guys: "When watching film of an opponent, what are some things you look for in player behavior?"
The other thread had a story about checking which way the QB first turns his head to scan the field. That's good stuff. Anything else?
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Post by CS on Dec 13, 2016 17:37:01 GMT -6
It's easiest to watch receivers for tells. Most of the time I can tell if they are running a pass route or blocking
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Post by freezeoption on Dec 13, 2016 17:55:02 GMT -6
watch line for high butts or low butts or lean to get a jump on the pull
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Post by PSS on Dec 13, 2016 18:09:50 GMT -6
I watch for alignment of the running backs. For example, if the in the Gun and the back is set deeper than the QB is it always downhill run, i.e. IZ or GT. When he is even or slightly in front is it OZ or pass. These are often easy to spot.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Dec 13, 2016 18:16:03 GMT -6
I would have to see the team and what type of system they run, but sometimes QB "finger licks" (for lack of a better phrase) can sometimes give up a pass tell.
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Post by carookie on Dec 13, 2016 18:59:52 GMT -6
For the most part, I feel that player tells are over-hyped and rarely utilized. I remember an episode of Coach (side note, is this the first post to site the TV show 'Coach') where the DC won the national title with a play call at the end because he recognized the guard sitting back on pass plays. It makes for good TV and fans love to think about this, but if you are looking for "tells" youll be chasing ghosts more often than not. The only one I think comes up often is OLs sitting deeper off the line when they are pulling; but I'd rather my players focus on other things.
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Post by dytmook on Dec 13, 2016 19:05:18 GMT -6
I think they are nice to give a hint maybe, but you still have to have 11 recognize it and execute to stop it.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 13, 2016 19:09:13 GMT -6
I don't feel it's an efficient use of my limited time to look for those. That's something for players to spot when they watch film.
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Post by georgefred86 on Dec 13, 2016 19:13:24 GMT -6
It truly depends on the team and the significance of the "tell". We played a team years ago that was a split back veer UC team ... one back would bounce/dig into his stance which told us that dive (option) was going to his side and the LBs would give a directional call to DL. They were physically better than us up front and we lost but it did help us get more stops compared to earlier meetings versus this team. Also early in the breakdown of a team (Saturday and Sunday) it is all about alignment and scheme. As the week progresses and you have more time, that is the time when our staff will look for tells in all phases of the game.
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Post by tabs52 on Dec 13, 2016 19:16:37 GMT -6
I will do this as a last check once I have a pretty good handle on them. It is things I will use for myself during the game, or little things here and there but I do not want to overload my guys with looking for little things.
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Post by PSS on Dec 13, 2016 19:21:18 GMT -6
I think they are nice to give a hint maybe, but you still have to have 11 recognize it and execute to stop it. For us our Mike keys the back. We coach it all week that his alignment dictates the play they are running. Back lines up behind deeper than the QB he yells out "Downhill! Downhill!". Not that difficult if you practice it every day. These little things helped us win games this year. Every defensive coach has a position to watch when breaking down film. You put in enough data on your opponent every weekend, for us it is Saturday, you eventually pick up on those little clues. OL are the easiest, backs are next, with receivers being more difficult because of quality of film. You have to communicate on defense and this is nothing different.
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Post by tabs52 on Dec 13, 2016 19:23:39 GMT -6
I do agree, but a few years ago, the day of the playoff game, I was doing a final review and the team we were playing was killing teams on a PAP and dragging the backsdie TE. I must of watch the play 100 times that day and his stance was a dead give away. Didn't relay it to my whole defense just my OLB that would be on TE to watch and he communicated that
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Post by freezeoption on Dec 13, 2016 19:32:36 GMT -6
it is a good to look at keys, one team we played the guard had his back arched every time he pulled
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Post by coachphillip on Dec 13, 2016 19:42:56 GMT -6
I remember my OL coach complaining to us about how only the playside of the OL would point out and make calls. Backside would just sit there silent waiting for the snap count to zone the backside gaps. One team figured it out and would blitz at the front side every time. Didn't mean much because we were Option based. But, it was still a good pickup on their part.
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Post by adawg2302 on Dec 13, 2016 22:40:13 GMT -6
Our LB's are trained/taught to simply look at their OG/EMLOS stance (their read). Is the OL weight leaning forward? Run. Is the OL hand barely touching the ground? Pass. While all OL won't be this obvious, we can usually find the worst one who will give it away by end of 1st or 2nd drive. Easy enough "check" since the LB's have to look at the OL anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 1:20:51 GMT -6
I've noticed a couple teams that we play have some BIG tells but really it's just because they're not very good football teams.
How linemen are weighted, how a QB checks the alignment of his RB before the snap, etc.
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Post by tabs52 on Dec 14, 2016 4:39:08 GMT -6
I remember my OL coach complaining to us about how only the playside of the OL would point out and make calls. Backside would just sit there silent waiting for the snap count to zone the backside gaps. One team figured it out and would blitz at the front side every time. Didn't mean much because we were Option based. But, it was still a good pickup on their part. Learned this the hard, the previous school I coached at would make a short or long call for our traps depending on who were trapping. It took all of one time in the game for us to trap and make the call before the other team knew what was coming. I have both sides of my line make the call for the play, just for this reason
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 14, 2016 5:18:11 GMT -6
Alignment of the RB is a tell for some teams.
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collier
Junior Member
[F4:@kbcollier32]
Posts: 270
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Post by collier on Dec 14, 2016 5:52:32 GMT -6
In our second round playoff game this year our DB coach picked up on depth of WR and whether or not the play would be jet sweep. If he was deeper than normal it was 100% jet sweep. So we made a call for it and used it in the game.
Side note: we got crushed and they went on to win it all.
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Post by powers714 on Dec 14, 2016 7:55:48 GMT -6
Because of the reason people think backs are tell alls, we motion our back from the pistol every play and then snap the ball. We are pistol spread, he is behind the Q, Down he motions to his spot for that play, set hut hard for defenses to use it as a tell all.
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Post by bignose on Dec 14, 2016 8:19:27 GMT -6
Some tells are subtle, some aren't. In 2010 we were prepping for the Championship game and thru various connections, I was able to obtain 7 films of our opponent. I picked up 100% that their Fullback was tipping the play by his stance. If he was flat backed, it was a run, if he had his butt down (bear crapping in the woods) it was a pass. You can see linemen cheating back when they pull, and linemen light on their hands on passes. If your kids are observant, the defensive linemen can see the finger tips of the linemen for pressure cues. One QB in our league wiped his hands with the towel on the center's butt on runs, but always wiped his hands on his own towel for pass.
One thing that you have to do defensively is not to let the offense know that you've keyed on to their tell.
Tells are useful, but a good tendency chart is better.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Dec 14, 2016 8:33:24 GMT -6
Once saw a kid frantically wiping his gloves off in the huddle. He was a TE rarely used in the passing game. We noticed it, started yelling to our kids, and completely stopped their 4th down play action.
I've seen OL guys come up to the line and start eyeing DB's. Turns out they did that on screens and were trying to find skinny guys to kill.
The best one I've ever was a coach on an opposing team would always loudly tell the WR on their side to block hard or something along those lines to make the DB think it was going to be a run. But, he never said that when it was an actual run, only on throws. So, after a quarter, our DB to that side knew if it was run or pass. We worked out subtle hand signals between our guys so we knew, but they didn't know that we knew.
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Post by carookie on Dec 14, 2016 8:46:09 GMT -6
Alignment of the RB is a tell for some teams. To me, if I am understanding this correctly, this is less a tell then a tendency. Back alignment is always part of formation breakdown for us.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 14, 2016 8:50:00 GMT -6
Alignment of the RB is a tell for some teams. To me, if I am understanding this correctly, this is less a tell then a tendency. Back alignment is always part of formation breakdown for us. I mean slight differences to where they are suppose to line up. One example, we were playing a shot gun team where their back aligned to either side of the QB depending on formation. The tell was when it was a run he would be about a foot deeper than normal. On a pass he was even with the QB. On one occasion he aligned slightly wider, over the tackle, and I started yelling wheel immediately. To me those subtle differences are tells.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 14, 2016 8:59:52 GMT -6
One of the best "tells" doesn't come from film but from a pre-snap and post-snap key by the LBs. We have them watch the QB's eyes. If he's watching the DL before the snap (without an audible), he's either getting spooky about the pass-rush: his eyes need to be on the secondary. If he's watching the DL post-snap, AT ALL, then it's time to bring the dogs and get after him.
We were playing a QB that is now in the NFL who did that during a play-off game. He's an incredible athlete and a great QB but our pass rush had him freaked out as we got to him again and again. He started watching the DL half-way through the 1st quarter so we completely changed our game plan and brought six every other down. Good times.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 14, 2016 10:42:24 GMT -6
Some of it comes with experience. Some of it comes with charting the play correctly. Running back behind the qb counter. Running back even outside zone or pass. Is there an OL tipping his pull or run/pass. Idk. You just learn to look for those things over time and it becomes easier and easier to find.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Dec 14, 2016 10:50:30 GMT -6
Blitzers often have their feet staggered.
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Post by **** on Dec 14, 2016 10:55:49 GMT -6
I don't go out of my way to look for this kind of stuff but sometimes I'll randomly see it.
We played a Wing T team this year that every time they pointed at a guy on defense they were trapping him. Every time they ran counter the OT would talk with the OG to communicate who would pull.
Team found out they couldn't run on us after the first series and went to empty every play. So basically it didn't matter I saw that stuff on film.
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mikeyg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154
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Post by mikeyg on Dec 14, 2016 11:38:28 GMT -6
Played a split back veer team who had a RB tell us where the ball was going every time. If his feet were straight across he was the pitch man. If his outside foot was slightly staggered he was the dive man.
We always watch G's, T's, RB's, and then QB.
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Post by jtimmerman53 on Dec 14, 2016 11:57:12 GMT -6
As an OL coach I try to pick up on some of these when I can. For a couple of examples we played a team this season that liked to do a lot of twists and loops and every time the DL going over top was backed off the LOS and then we played another team that slanted their nose and we noticed that his slant-side foot was always kicked further back than his other foot. Now these may have been coached by them but nonetheless it allowed us to cue in on when it was coming.
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