|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 3, 2016 18:08:07 GMT -6
I hope this doesn't come across as a "fan" question...I will try to keep it focused.
What's going on with the University of Virginia football program? Compared to the other big state universities in the Southeast, the University of Virginia appears to have had a very mediocre football program for a very long time. Obviously, it's not a lack of talent in Virginia. Does Virginia Tech just out-recruit Virginia?
I've always found it odd that in a part of the country that is loaded with talent and football is king that the University of Virginia just isn't more competitive. Just wondered what some reasons for this would be.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 5, 2016 16:32:21 GMT -6
It's a tough school academically and admissions do them no favors.
|
|
|
|
Post by dytmook on Dec 5, 2016 16:49:40 GMT -6
Yeah, I think it's pretty much the academics that slow them down. I'm sure there are some things they could do to compete like other high academic schools like Northwestern but there will be ebbs and flows so sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 5, 2016 17:29:57 GMT -6
It's a tough school academically and admissions do them no favors. So football just isn't as big as a priority there. Got it. I find that fascinating. It is such an outlier compared to the other flagship public universities of the Southeast. Really goes against the grain culturally. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 5, 2016 17:47:05 GMT -6
It's a tough school academically and admissions do them no favors. So football just isn't as big as a priority there. Got it. I find that fascinating. It is such an outlier compared to the other flagship public universities of the Southeast. Really goes against the grain culturally. Trouble is they still want to win so people get fired. |
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 5, 2016 18:19:24 GMT -6
I mean, they won for a lot of years under George Welsh, so I don't thinking winning is out of the question there,
Let's give mendenhall a few years there
(The end of Welsh's tenure did line up pretty neatly with V Tech's best years, so there's probably something to those two schools competing over finite resources)
|
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 5, 2016 18:32:41 GMT -6
Looking it up, Al Groh had 5 winning years out of 9 years (and 5 out of his first 7), including 2 9 win years
London's the only coach since the 80s to have a losing record there
(Working off the assumption that it's too early to judge mendenhall's tenure
4 head coaches since 1982 probably makes that one of the least turned over Power Five jobs
|
|
|
|
Post by 53 on Dec 5, 2016 19:03:51 GMT -6
It's a tough school academically and admissions do them no favors. So football just isn't as big as a priority there. Got it. I find that fascinating. It is such an outlier compared to the other flagship public universities of the Southeast. Really goes against the grain culturally. Students there are trying to erase Jefferson from the school because he triggers racism. Academics is running the show and those in power don't value or like football. Sadly Tennessee has been going down that same road. Hopefully Blackburn will be able to get Tennessee back on path. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 5, 2016 19:31:08 GMT -6
Looking it up, Al Groh had 5 winning years out of 9 years (and 5 out of his first 7), including 2 9 win years London's the only coach since the 80s to have a losing record there (Working off the assumption that it's too early to judge mendenhall's tenure 4 head coaches since 1982 probably makes that one of the least turned over Power Five jobs Agreed. However, I just don't remember Virginia ever really being a part of the national conversation about the elite programs, at least compared to Florida/Florida State/Georgia/LSU/Alabama/Auburn/South Carolina/Clemson/etc, etc. Are they traditionally a Top 25 team? |
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 5, 2016 19:49:32 GMT -6
They were ranked #1 in the country about 7 weeks into 1990 before they lost 41-38 to Georgia Tech, who went on to share the NC Went on to lose their last 3 games that year and finish 8-4, that's the last time I remember them really being in national contention en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_teamMost teams don't compete for NCs very often, all the other teams get 85 scholarships too |
|
|
|
Post by coachtua on Dec 5, 2016 23:25:31 GMT -6
I know a few of the coaches on staff personally. At UVA they are not allowed to even recruit an athlete until they pass or get accepted by admissions. They have said the admissions at UVA are more stringent academically then BYU.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 23:35:52 GMT -6
I hope this doesn't come across as a "fan" question...I will try to keep it focused. What's going on with the University of Virginia football program? Compared to the other big state universities in the Southeast, the University of Virginia appears to have had a very mediocre football program for a very long time. Obviously, it's not a lack of talent in Virginia. Does Virginia Tech just out-recruit Virginia? I've always found it odd that in a part of the country that is loaded with talent and football is king that the University of Virginia just isn't more competitive. Just wondered what some reasons for this would be. Their academics are brutal. They're similar to Cal, in that it's technically public school but with elite private school level academics and they are uncompromising on that. The median ACT is a 31/SAT 2040 and the median GPA is 4.26 on a 4.0 scale. They only accept 27% of the men who apply each year. Those numbers put them on par with Stanford and the Ivy League schools, but whereas Stanford will give recruits a break to get them in school, UVA takes a hard line stance on not making exceptions for athletes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 23:40:30 GMT -6
So football just isn't as big as a priority there. Got it. I find that fascinating. It is such an outlier compared to the other flagship public universities of the Southeast. Really goes against the grain culturally. Students there are trying to erase Jefferson from the school because he triggers racism. Academics is running the show and those in power don't value or like football. Sadly Tennessee has been going down that same road. Hopefully Blackburn will be able to get Tennessee back on path. Tennessee's nowhere near what UVA is. They definitely value football and that school is a far cry from being liberal or even an elite academic institution. The Haslam family, who currently occupy the Governor's mansion, basically call the shots with that program and have for decades. The UT administration treats their football team like an ATM, though, to pay for other university services in ways that the other SEC schools don't. That hurts the Vols. |
|
|
|
Post by The Lunch Pail on Dec 6, 2016 7:16:51 GMT -6
They were ranked #1 in the country about 7 weeks into 1990 before they lost 41-38 to Georgia Tech, who went on to share the NC Went on to lose their last 3 games that year and finish 8-4, that's the last time I remember them really being in national contention en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_teamMost teams don't compete for NCs very often, all the other teams get 85 scholarships too I may be ignorant but didn't they have the Barber twins in 1990? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 8:52:35 GMT -6
They were ranked #1 in the country about 7 weeks into 1990 before they lost 41-38 to Georgia Tech, who went on to share the NC Went on to lose their last 3 games that year and finish 8-4, that's the last time I remember them really being in national contention en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_teamMost teams don't compete for NCs very often, all the other teams get 85 scholarships too I may be ignorant but didn't they have the Barber twins in 1990? In the early 90s they had the Barber twins, then Thomas Jones after them. They ended FSU's multi-year undefeated streak in the ACC in the mid 90s with Jones carrying the workload. They were pretty good under George Welsh, when the ACC was far weaker, but it's a tough place to recruit due to the academic requirements. |
|
|
|
Post by pitt1980 on Dec 6, 2016 9:27:57 GMT -6
They were ranked #1 in the country about 7 weeks into 1990 before they lost 41-38 to Georgia Tech, who went on to share the NC Went on to lose their last 3 games that year and finish 8-4, that's the last time I remember them really being in national contention en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_teamMost teams don't compete for NCs very often, all the other teams get 85 scholarships too I may be ignorant but didn't they have the Barber twins in 1990?
ah, fun with college football reference:
1990 Team, the big players were QB Shawn Moore, who finished 4th in the Heisman that year, WR Herman Moore, who had a long career with the Lions, and RB Terry Kirby, who hung around with the Dolphins for a while, and had over a 1,000 yards that season
Barber twins played from 1993 - 1996,
in 1995, they started 5-1 and were ranked 9th, before losing to UNC, they finished 9-4 and were ranked 16th in the final poll
Talent on that team, LB James Farrior and DE Jon Harris were 1st round picks in 97, Jamie Sharper and Tiki Barber were 2nd round picks in 97, and Ronde Barber was a 3rd round pick that year
in 1998, they started 5-0 and were ranked 7th, before losing to Georgia Tech, finishing 9-3, ranked 18th in final poll
Talent on that team, QB was Aaron Brooks who played for the Saints for a while, RB was Thomas Jones, who had over 1,300 yards that year and would get drafted 7th overall in 2000, and DE Patrick Kearney was a 1st round pick in 1999
in 2004, they started 5-0 and were ranked 6th, before losing 36-3 to #7 Florida State, finished 8-4, final ranking 23
Talent on that team, QB was Marquis Hagans (I guess Matt Schaub graduated the year before), Heath Miller was a 1st round pick in 2005, D'Brickeshaw Ferguson was #4 overall in 2006
--------------- ---------------
and that's it among teams that broke into the top 10 (since 1952)
I suspect that doesn't seem that impressive, but I suspect that's not actually that unusual as far as college jobs go
to just draw some arbitrary cut offs if were counting the years from 1987 - 2007 they had 4 teams that made their way into the top 10
Rest of the ACC:
Clemson had 6 such years
Georgia Tech had 5 such years
UNC had 2 such years
Maryland had 1 such year
Nationally:
Oregon had 6 such years in that stretch
Wisconsin had 7 such years
Michigan State had 3 such years
TCU had 2 such years
Oklahoma State had 1 such year in that stretch
Stanford had 2 such years
------------
A bunch of people have pointed out that the administration has made it difficult to get certain players in the school, and I don't doubt that, but that's an issue at a lot of places, maybe managing the administration better is a big part of the answer
(its also the case that a lot of institutional drama has surrounded UVA)
-----------
no one's turned in into a real national contender, but lots of places go long stretches not being national contenders, until someone figures out how to do it, maybe Mendenhall will eventually wind up being that guy, guess we'll see
|
|
|
|
Post by 53 on Dec 6, 2016 10:26:46 GMT -6
Students there are trying to erase Jefferson from the school because he triggers racism. Academics is running the show and those in power don't value or like football. Sadly Tennessee has been going down that same road. Hopefully Blackburn will be able to get Tennessee back on path. Tennessee's nowhere near what UVA is. They definitely value football and that school is a far cry from being liberal or even an elite academic institution. The Haslam family, who currently occupy the Governor's mansion, basically call the shots with that program and have for decades. The UT administration treats their football team like an ATM, though, to pay for other university services in ways that the other SEC schools don't. That hurts the Vols. I'm just over Butch, and tired or Tennessee acting like they're a second rate program. |
|
