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Post by The Lunch Pail on Nov 30, 2016 11:26:24 GMT -6
In honor of the collegiate coaching carousel, I thought I'd share a little rant. Nothing irks me like these AD's who only want coaches with an "offensive mind". By which they basically mean that they want a guy who runs a HUNH and is likely under 45 years old. Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo are great "offensive minds" but they likely will never get a offer to coach at a bigger school because they don't back up their QB and run HUNH (not that they would want new jobs anyway).
I get why AD's want an explosive offense. It's entertaining (not to me though) and it puts people in seats. But people insist on hiring for entertainment over hiring the right guy to lead a program.
If coaches are judged by wins and losses, then why did Chad Morris get so much buzz before announcing he'll stay at SMU yesterday? He's won 7 games in two years and his defenses are horrible. But he runs an exciting offense though!
This is just a tragic time of the year IMO when good men lose their jobs at the HS/NCAA level by people who mostly don't know anything about football aside from what talking heads on ESPN say. Before we know it there will be two offenses in football. In the NFL, they will continue on with the "100 ways to run the West Coast" philosophy. In HS and College, everything will be spread. And forget about defensive-minded HC's too.
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2016 11:34:40 GMT -6
You make some good points.
This is the reality of the situation, the way of the world these days.
ADs have to pay for those new Volleyball unis and Field Hockey sticks, which mean they have to put fannies in the Football stadium seats which means not only winning but doing it in an "entertaining" (read: show them the ball by throwing it) fashion.
"Fans" would rather see a long incompletion than a well-executed option play that gains six yards.
And it's not going to change.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Nov 30, 2016 11:40:40 GMT -6
You make some good points. This is the reality of the situation, the way of the world these days. ADs have to pay for those new Volleyball unis and Field Hockey sticks, which mean they have to put fannies in the Football stadium seats which means not only winning but doing it in an "entertaining" (read: show them the ball by throwing it) fashion. "Fans" would rather see a long incompletion than a well-executed option play that gains six yards. And it's not going to change. It's sad. So many would prefer to get their faces melted off than to have a coach who runs an organized program and teaches his kids integrity and molds them into great young men.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 30, 2016 11:42:17 GMT -6
You make some good points. This is the reality of the situation, the way of the world these days. ADs have to pay for those new Volleyball unis and Field Hockey sticks, which mean they have to put fannies in the Football stadium seats which means not only winning but doing it in an "entertaining" (read: show them the ball by throwing it) fashion. "Fans" would rather see a long incompletion than a well-executed option play that gains six yards. And it's not going to change. I don't know if that's entirely accurate. I think if your team is chit they would rather see you throw the ball like you said. I think if your pretty good, they'll accept what you do. Last year we ran inside zone on probably 85% or so of our plays and averaged about 9 a carry, which meant we were breaking quite a few for 50+ yards. I think for the most part they just want to see explosive plays. Granted we were throwing bubbles off of the backside and other bullchit quick routes on occasion as well (some fans actually had the illusion that we threw a lot even though we barely threw it all). I don't know. I think you just have to be successful. In the years where Georgia Tech is contending for the ACC I don't think the fans bitch about the Flexbone.
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2016 11:47:14 GMT -6
I was speaking primarily of CFB - and Georgia Tech is the exception that proves the rule - but it has been filtering down to HS Football, too.
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Post by **** on Nov 30, 2016 11:49:11 GMT -6
If you win they don't care what you run.
Same chit is happening in basketball. If you win, you can run what you run. If you lose, "why are you not shooting 3's every possession like Golden State?"
Winning cures everything.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 30, 2016 12:06:03 GMT -6
Yup... It's all about revenue.
My alma-mater canned the winning-est coach in school history because he failed to beat the school's rival consistently and because fan didn't like his lack of "rah-rah" attitude.
He took the team into the play-offs and won or tied for the conference title virtually every year he was there. He has a winning percentage of .68 over the span of his career, putting him in the top 20 of all active coaches. But, none of this mattered to the fans and revenue dropped.
His successor had a very difficult season and finished up in the bottom of the conference this year. But, the fans love his "fiery passion" and they beat the rival team, so they packed the stands.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 12:17:06 GMT -6
I had this happen to 2 different players of mine, and it stuck on my craw since
My BIGGEST pet peeve with the Coaches jumping ship (and I get the money thing) is that they screw the incoming kids they recruited .
Ive had 2 kids go through this , 1 would up doing very well for himself at another school and is now having an outstanding rookie year for the Denver Broncos
The other , received a ROYAL screwjob, because after he committed, he cut off all other schools, was 100% comitted to this particular school, spent the entire season decked out in their gear, made sure anytime we were on TV he was wearing the school hat , or shirt etc..
Then the coach at that school left, and even worse the incoming coach was actually bringing in his own players from his previous school, specifically QB where our kid was headed because he was looking at being on the field most likely by year 2!
This was done late in the season as well, now he had to decommit, and scrounge around to see if any other schools were still interested , but by then they all had their year 1 commits as well.
He wound up at a different school, (still div 1) that is doing better thatn in their previous years, but still not where he wanted to go
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Post by joelee on Nov 30, 2016 12:22:38 GMT -6
I disagree with the extreme picture the OP is painting. Butch Davis just got one of the first open jobs (DC) and Mark Helfrich just got fired for 1 losing season. (hunh)
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jaydub66
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Varsity D-Line Coach
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Post by jaydub66 on Nov 30, 2016 12:23:39 GMT -6
Comes down to this
Leaders are in charge to be process oriented
Supporters are not in charge because they're results oriented
Sometimes the two flip depending on the situation but a lot of coaches are hired or fired because of their results, not their process
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Post by coachbdud on Nov 30, 2016 12:24:53 GMT -6
Oregon is the most HUNH there is and they just told their coach DEUCES
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Post by joelee on Nov 30, 2016 12:29:17 GMT -6
Oh, and LSU just hired a DL coach.
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Post by joelee on Nov 30, 2016 12:29:41 GMT -6
Comes down to this Leaders are in charge to be process oriented Supporters are not in charge because they're results oriented Sometimes the two flip depending on the situation but a lot of coaches are hired or fired because of their results, not their process Great insight.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 30, 2016 12:41:55 GMT -6
If you win they don't care what you run. Same chit is happening in basketball. If you win, you can run what you run. If you lose, "why are you not shooting 3's every possession like Golden State?" Winning cures everything. Yes, this is true in most cases. However, there are times when winning isn't enough. The new coach at my alma-mater could finish with a losing record each season but beat the rival team each year and keep his job for quite awhile.
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Post by brophy on Nov 30, 2016 13:10:27 GMT -6
Top 25 college football has less to do with actual football and more tondo with branding. You need a figurehead to get the athletes and then solicit exposure on the ESPN
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 30, 2016 14:16:52 GMT -6
Oh, and LSU just hired a DL coach. He was their 3rd choice at best though. Their first few options were offensive guys. I agree to your point though. There are some great HC that are defensive guys first. The thing that pisses me off the most about the coaching carousel is the non major 5 coach that goes 12-0 at a school that can only dream about a Sugar or Fiesta Bowl, gets his team to this bowl, but jumps ship to a middle of the pack Pac12 or SEC school before the bowl game where he may never play on New years again.
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2016 14:22:27 GMT -6
Oh, and LSU just hired a DL coach.
Orgeron and LSU is a special case.
But if he doesn't spice up the offense him being a Loosiana boy won't buy him a lot of time.
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Post by PSS on Nov 30, 2016 14:26:56 GMT -6
Top 25 college football has less to do with actual football and more tondo with branding. Y ou need a figurehead to get the athletes and then solicit exposure on the ESPNIt's all about recruiting in CFB. You can look at the coaches that have been fired already. They couldn't win because they couldn't recruit or out recruit their rivals. Look at Charlie Strong for example. He was doing the right things, teaching young men how to become men. Yet he wasn't able to recruit like Oklahoma or West Virginia, not even TCU. As a HFB coach in college you have to not only surround yourself with great coaches but they also have to be great recruiters.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 30, 2016 15:29:38 GMT -6
I don't know but a school in our conference just let a coach go with a 51-38 record and 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. In 3 of those 5 years of playoffs he won at least 1 game. When they lost it was to teams who made big runs. They were 2-8 this year after losing a ton last year including 4 kids who are likely playing high level college ball. This year I think they were just young but they did a decent job with their talent, but they just weren't ready yet. He ran wing t/pistol wing t so I think they wanted something flashier.
The AD put this in the paper about the change, " said the school will accept applications for the job until Dec. 13.
“I don’t want to be bombarded with youth football resumes,” he said. “Previous high school coaching experience is a requirement, although it doesn’t have to be head coaching experience.”
Doesn't want to make me apply there.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 30, 2016 16:46:16 GMT -6
I don't know but a school in our conference just let a coach go with a 51-38 record and 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. In 3 of those 5 years of playoffs he won at least 1 game. When they lost it was to teams who made big runs. They were 2-8 this year after losing a ton last year including 4 kids who are likely playing high level college ball. This year I think they were just young but they did a decent job with their talent, but they just weren't ready yet. He ran wing t/pistol wing t so I think they wanted something flashier. The AD put this in the paper about the change, " said the school will accept applications for the job until Dec. 13. “I don’t want to be bombarded with youth football resumes,” he said. “Previous high school coaching experience is a requirement, although it doesn’t have to be head coaching experience.” Doesn't want to make me apply there. I REALLY want to be a HC but wouldn't think twice about passing that one over. Phuc that place.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 16:53:26 GMT -6
Fans want to win but they also want a show. Unless they have both, they aren't happy.
Administrators want happy fans and their money.
Football is entertainment to everyone who is not actively participating on gameday. That's just how it is.
Fans also get tired of the same show year after year. Even if you're winning, if it looks the same 4 or 5 years in a row, they'll find reasons to gripe about why you're not winning even bigger.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 16:57:55 GMT -6
Oh, and LSU just hired a DL coach.
Orgeron and LSU is a special case.
But if he doesn't spice up the offense him being a Loosiana boy won't buy him a lot of time.
He better hire some visor-genius to come in and run RPOs and stuff or they'll dump him within 2 years. A lot of the power brokers behind the scenes there were very upset they didn't get Tom Herman.
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2016 17:14:24 GMT -6
I have sat in the stands at playoff games and heard "fans" - supposedly "supporters" - criticize highly successful, championship coaches because they are running the "same old plays."
And of course God forbid they lose - it was the coaching.
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2016 17:27:16 GMT -6
Orgeron and LSU is a special case.
But if he doesn't spice up the offense him being a Loosiana boy won't buy him a lot of time.
He better hire some visor-genius to come in and run RPOs and stuff or they'll dump him within 2 years. A lot of the power brokers behind the scenes there were very upset they didn't get Tom Herman.
I'm sure there are a lot of TIGAH boosters ('Geuax LSU') who feel like they should have gotten a "big name" or "hot" coach because they are LSU and of the the best programs in the country.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 30, 2016 17:48:56 GMT -6
I don't know but a school in our conference just let a coach go with a 51-38 record and 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. In 3 of those 5 years of playoffs he won at least 1 game. When they lost it was to teams who made big runs. They were 2-8 this year after losing a ton last year including 4 kids who are likely playing high level college ball. This year I think they were just young but they did a decent job with their talent, but they just weren't ready yet. He ran wing t/pistol wing t so I think they wanted something flashier. The AD put this in the paper about the change, " said the school will accept applications for the job until Dec. 13. “I don’t want to be bombarded with youth football resumes,” he said. “Previous high school coaching experience is a requirement, although it doesn’t have to be head coaching experience.” Doesn't want to make me apply there. I REALLY want to be a HC but wouldn't think twice about passing that one over. Phuc that place. Yeah, I'm not sure what they expect to get because they are never really athletic, but they will beat you with blue collar work. Plus being private in between two solid public options makes me think this may set them back.
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jaydub66
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Post by jaydub66 on Nov 30, 2016 19:53:51 GMT -6
There are only 2 types of coaches in the world boys... Those who have been fired and those who will eventually be fired. I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of the thinking that goes along with sports. I mean...Les Miles got fired. Wasn't it just a few years ago that #2 LSU beat #1 Alabama in the regular season in a game coined as the game of the century? Yes. I was at the game. Did Les Miles all of a sudden become football retarded and forget how to coach and run a program? Of course not. I don't understand how it makes any logical sense to fire some of these coaches...only one team can win. In any league play there is going to be one team that wins and others who lose. The biggest issue is see is football program decisions are not being made by football people. The decisions are being made by alumni (who control the money)...who are typically guys who aren't even has beens, they are never wuzes. I would think if the coaches at Miami were doing such a chitty job...don't you think the people who would be criticizing the loudest would be former Miami players? You think Ray Lewis and Michael Irvin would hold their tongue on the subject? Those guys don't criticize because they have been there, they know it's not easy, they know it requires some luck to stay healthy and for the ball to bounce your way sometimes. They understand the real game of college football is played in recruiting, not on the field on saturday. We have the same issues in HS. My safeties coach played for Saban, my LB coach played for Saban, my dline coach played Carr at Michigan...don't you think if we were doing things that weren't right that those guys would be the first to say something? Of course they would...but as always, the loudest mouths are the most ignorant. The loudest mouths are the guys who went through HS, played the bone-a-phone in the JV band, watched some sportscenter, coached their son's flag football team and now just sounds like he knows what he's talking about and the never wuzes who are in AD positions or BOE positions eventually listen. That is the dumbest thing ever. That's like a man taking advice on a prospective wife from someone who knows a female but not your particular female of interest. That's stupid. LSU fired Miles because Saban was getting more dudes than him. Now, I've heard reports the Orgeron has eased the physical nature of the practices and letting players be fresher for games but Alabama just got better players and LSU lost a lot of games because they got a 4 or 5 star guy in Harris(?) that didn't pan out because he wasn't a pro style guy.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Nov 30, 2016 20:05:26 GMT -6
Orgeron and LSU is a special case.
But if he doesn't spice up the offense him being a Loosiana boy won't buy him a lot of time.
He better hire some visor-genius to come in and run RPOs and stuff or they'll dump him within 2 years. A lot of the power brokers behind the scenes there were very upset they didn't get Tom Herman. I know you didn't do it, but I don't group Herman in with the visor-wearing douches. Herman seems like he knows a lot about motivation and relationships with players. I've never seen a team play harder for a coach than what I've seen his guys do (excluding SMU, Navy, and Memphis games).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 20:28:57 GMT -6
He better hire some visor-genius to come in and run RPOs and stuff or they'll dump him within 2 years. A lot of the power brokers behind the scenes there were very upset they didn't get Tom Herman. I know you didn't do it, but I don't group Herman in with the visor-wearing douches. Herman seems like he knows a lot about motivation and relationships with players. I've never seen a team play harder for a coach than what I've seen his guys do (excluding SMU, Navy, and Memphis games). I wouldn't put him in that group, either. Actually, about the only true "visor-wearing douche" I can think of off the top of my head in FBS ball is Lane Kiffin. Herman's a good coach. I am surprised he was as hot a commodity as he was after those 3 losses, though. He's 9-3 and 4th in his division at Houston (only 1 fewer loss than LSU had this year), yet LSU and Texas got into a bidding war for this guy as if he were Nick Saban or Urban Meyer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 20:33:54 GMT -6
I don't know but a school in our conference just let a coach go with a 51-38 record and 5 playoff appearances in 8 years. In 3 of those 5 years of playoffs he won at least 1 game. When they lost it was to teams who made big runs. They were 2-8 this year after losing a ton last year including 4 kids who are likely playing high level college ball. This year I think they were just young but they did a decent job with their talent, but they just weren't ready yet. He ran wing t/pistol wing t so I think they wanted something flashier. The AD put this in the paper about the change, " said the school will accept applications for the job until Dec. 13. “I don’t want to be bombarded with youth football resumes,” he said. “Previous high school coaching experience is a requirement, although it doesn’t have to be head coaching experience.” Doesn't want to make me apply there. In situations like that, as an outsider you never know why the guy really got let go. It may have been completely unrelated to football. It could have been some kind of political thing where somebody in a high place doesn't like his face or he ticked off the wrong parent or whatever, which are actually worse, IMO. Or he could have done something behind the scenes that wasn't kosher.
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Post by fantom on Nov 30, 2016 21:06:29 GMT -6
Oh, and LSU just hired a DL coach. He was their 3rd choice at best though. Their first few options were offensive guys. I agree to your point though. There are some great HC that are defensive guys first. The thing that pisses me off the most about the coaching carousel is the non major 5 coach that goes 12-0 at a school that can only dream about a Sugar or Fiesta Bowl, gets his team to this bowl, but jumps ship to a middle of the pack Pac12 or SEC school before the bowl game where he may never play on New years again. But he'll get paid. sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
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