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Post by zherteltherrien on Nov 26, 2016 7:24:51 GMT -6
We are playing in our state championship game Sat. Against a very talented offense. We have a bunch of very scrappy kids with no real standout players. Do you guys have any good examples of great offenses being upset?
I've got 2002 Patriots over the Greatest Show on turf, and The Giants over the Bills.
Appreciate anything you can add to the list.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 26, 2016 8:36:46 GMT -6
Ohio State holding Oregon to 20 in the championship game 2 years ago was impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 10:25:23 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday
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Post by utchuckd on Nov 26, 2016 10:47:46 GMT -6
This is so niche but the 1986 Sugar Bowl.
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 26, 2016 10:50:06 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 11:35:00 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! Oh god you said the "R" word ..here it comes in 3-2-1 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 11:36:33 GMT -6
The '84 Dolphins. They were 14-2, Marino became the first QB to throw for 5,000 yards, and he'd set a TD pass record (48) that would stand for over 20 years. They still lost to the 49ers, who had a bunch of guys (like Joe Montana) who everyone said were too slow and unathletic to ever play in the NFL.
The 2007 New England Patriots were 18-0 going into Super Bowl and had 5 All Pros on Offense, with at least 2 of those being HOFers. They still got beat by the Giants 17-14.
The '96 Nebraska Cornhuskers, who were coming off 2 straight NCs, were rushing for about 500 yards a game, and had the nation's longest winning streak, got beat by ASU 19-0.
Those are the ones off the top of my head.
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 26, 2016 11:45:08 GMT -6
Bud Wilkinson won 47 STRAIGHT, & 3 National Championships at Oklahoma (in the 1950's).
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Post by carookie on Nov 26, 2016 13:18:37 GMT -6
For the most part, I would be wary of looking into the NFL for examples; the relative talent is to homogenous. Even in your two cited examples the defenses are extremely good (Belichick's Patriots would become one of the better defenses ever in the mid 00's, and the 90 Giants had their fair share of studs).As was cited above, being out personneled can make all the difference. That being written, what I'll later suggest is similar to what was done in one of those examples.
FWIW, I have always felt that the best way to win such a game is to let the air out of the ball. The greater number of possessions the better chance for the more talented team to be successful. Limiting the amount of possessions increases the relative value of any given play; and allows for less of a chance of mean regression. If you are able to get a few stops or turnovers they will be magnified in importance.
Now I wouldnt change what you do, but find what you do that slows the game the most. Keep it low scoring and hope you can hit the one or two plays that make the difference.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 26, 2016 19:45:58 GMT -6
For the most part, I would be wary of looking into the NFL for examples; the relative talent is to homogenous. Even in your two cited examples the defenses are extremely good (Belichick's Patriots would become one of the better defenses ever in the mid 00's, and the 90 Giants had their fair share of studs).As was cited above, being out personneled can make all the difference. That being written, what I'll later suggest is similar to what was done in one of those examples. FWIW, I have always felt that the best way to win such a game is to let the air out of the ball. The greater number of possessions the better chance for the more talented team to be successful. Limiting the amount of possessions increases the relative value of any given play; and allows for less of a chance of mean regression. If you are able to get a few stops or turnovers they will be magnified in importance. Now I wouldnt change what you do, but find what you do that slows the game the most. Keep it low scoring and hope you can hit the one or two plays that make the difference. Let the air out of the ball? Too soon man, too soon. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 26, 2016 23:26:30 GMT -6
You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! Oh god you said the "R" word ..here it comes in 3-2-1[/quoth] it would be à short book, Youre screwed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 8:07:12 GMT -6
Oh god you said the "R" word ..here it comes in 3-2-1[/quoth] it would be à short book, Youre screwed. We file that under "those we do not speak of " Greg |
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Post by gibbs72 on Nov 27, 2016 18:40:24 GMT -6
I agree with the 1986 Fiesta Bowl win by Penn State over Miami
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Post by pvogel on Nov 27, 2016 21:37:33 GMT -6
Someone mentioned Oregon in the playoffs but in 2010 that Offense was freaking rolling to 49 ppg. Ran into Auburn and freaking phenomenal dline play and lost 22-19.
2008 Oklahoma was similar. Averaged 51 ppg. Then they ran into Florida's freakin stacked defense and lost 24-14.
2005 USC was freakin insane. Averaged 50 ppg a game and half their schedule was ranked when they played them. People were calling 2005 USC the greatest team of all time. And then they lost a championship by the Texas D stepping up on a 4th and 2 and stuffing them.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 27, 2016 22:43:04 GMT -6
Oh yeah the Nick Fairley Invitational Showcase.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 5:31:32 GMT -6
91 Colorado -Notre Dame when Ricky Waters cost them the national championship , but Colorado under my boy Elliot Uzelac was going toe to toe the whole game, and ND was LOADED with talent
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Post by blb on Nov 28, 2016 6:50:02 GMT -6
91 Colorado -Notre Dame when Ricky Waters cost them the national championship , but Colorado under my boy Elliot Uzelac was going toe to toe the whole game, and ND was LOADED with talent
Sorry Rich, but Elliot was at Ohio State in '91. Went to Boulder in 1993-94.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 8:39:10 GMT -6
Correct i forgot the year, hell break my balls now
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Post by coachcb on Nov 28, 2016 8:57:38 GMT -6
Someone mentioned Oregon in the playoffs but in 2010 that Offense was freaking rolling to 49 ppg. Ran into Auburn and freaking phenomenal dline play and lost 22-19. 2008 Oklahoma was similar. Averaged 51 ppg. Then they ran into Florida's freakin stacked defense and lost 24-14. 2005 USC was freakin insane. Averaged 50 ppg a game and half their schedule was ranked when they played them. People were calling 2005 USC the greatest team of all time. And then they lost a championship by the Texas D stepping up on a 4th and 2 and stuffing them. This is a great example. Oregon was rolling that year, especially on the ground. Auburn absolutely destroyed every aspect of their zone read game. They couldn't block Auburn's DL, they couldn't read them and it appeared as if their entire game plan went to crap within a quarter. I will say, they did manage to hang in that game with an effective passing game which was admirable. |
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 28, 2016 10:56:34 GMT -6
Great defensive game plans with great players can stymie even the best offense and OC.
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Post by tothehouse on Nov 28, 2016 10:59:27 GMT -6
Have your Jimmies outplay their Joes.  |
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Post by blb on Nov 28, 2016 11:07:43 GMT -6
Have your Jimmies outplay their Joes.
Thanks for the insight.
How do you go about accomplishing that - any suggestions?
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Post by wamp19 on Nov 28, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -6
Cal's game against Oregon in 2010 comes to mind. Played a simple stripped down version of their defense so they could play as fast as Oregon. Didn't win the game...but held them to less points than Auburn did in the title game.
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Post by tothehouse on Nov 28, 2016 12:33:35 GMT -6
blb - the best way I've seen teams slay Goliath's is defined by this quote. "If they are still talking trash...you aren't hitting them hard enough". Now...that isn't a scheme thing. Also...they might not even be talking trash. The point is do what you do...because that got you to the same dance as them. And make your squad believe that the other team should be worried about you.
Scheme wise I'd find a couple wrinkles (speaking defensively) that they haven't seen on film...that are easy to install in a week...and find a good time to run those and see where that gets you. That might mean anything really. Stem your fronts or really work on disguising your coverages if you've been vanilla the whole year.
In the end...just gotta hit them in the mouth.
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Post by paydirt18 on Nov 28, 2016 12:35:49 GMT -6
This is so niche but the 1986 Sugar Bowl. UT 35 - Miami 7 It actually was the 1985 season and UT did it with a back up QB if you remember as Tony Robinson was hurt in week 2. Great game still have it on VHS. |
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Post by s1ngwing on Nov 28, 2016 21:54:49 GMT -6
Buster Douglas Beat Mike Tyson. Tell your kids to hold on for the first few rounds. Survive the standing 8 count then finish them off. We had our kids buy into this 3 years ago. Lost to the defending state champ 35-0 in regular season. 7 weeks later we took them to double overtime in the state quarter final. We lost but our kids believed they were Buster Douglas.
Awesome documentary:
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Post by silkyice on Nov 28, 2016 22:48:06 GMT -6
Bama over Miami 1992 Season. 93 Sugar Bowl
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Post by jg78 on Nov 28, 2016 23:33:15 GMT -6
For the most part, I would be wary of looking into the NFL for examples; the relative talent is to homogenous. Even in your two cited examples the defenses are extremely good (Belichick's Patriots would become one of the better defenses ever in the mid 00's, and the 90 Giants had their fair share of studs).As was cited above, being out personneled can make all the difference. That being written, what I'll later suggest is similar to what was done in one of those examples. FWIW, I have always felt that the best way to win such a game is to let the air out of the ball. The greater number of possessions the better chance for the more talented team to be successful. Limiting the amount of possessions increases the relative value of any given play; and allows for less of a chance of mean regression. If you are able to get a few stops or turnovers they will be magnified in importance. Now I wouldnt change what you do, but find what you do that slows the game the most. Keep it low scoring and hope you can hit the one or two plays that make the difference. When playing against a truly better team this is one of the most important strategies. The fewer the number of snaps you play the more likely you are to win. It's like playing at a casino. Win a little bit and get out there before the odds inevitably catch up with you and you lose. |
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Post by gibbs72 on Nov 29, 2016 13:02:50 GMT -6
Buster Douglas Beat Mike Tyson. Tell your kids to hold on for the first few rounds. Survive the standing 8 count then finish them off. We had our kids buy into this 3 years ago. Lost to the defending state champ 35-0 in regular season. 7 weeks later we took them to double overtime in the state quarter final. We lost but our kids believed they were Buster Douglas. Awesome documentary: THIS is a great example! |
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Post by jml on Dec 3, 2016 16:50:37 GMT -6
College football is rife with upsets, Iowa pulled a nice one just yesterday You can go all the way back (in the HISTORY of the game) & SEE what caused certain offense the MOST PROBLEMS. Bill Belichick is GREAT example of a Coach that does that (he LOVES to "drop names" of the great coaches in football history)! This is like the Professors of Military History at West Point studying TACTICS ("dropping the names") of Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, R.E. Lee, George Patton, Norman Schwartzkopf) ETC. DEPENDING on what offense you are facing, it HELPS to know (these are but a FEW examples Football "Historians", even those who were not ALIVE at the time, will recall): 1. What Bob Neyland did to stop the SINGLE WING 2. What Bud Wilkinson did to stop his own SPLIT-T 3. What teams (& Darrell Royal) did to stop the HOUSTON VEER 4 What Ara Parseghian did to make the WISHBONE obsolete. 5. What Bob Davies, & Dennis Eruickson's D-Staff did to the RUN & SHOOT. 6. What teams are doing TODAY vs. the Oregon (Chip Kelly) SPREAD that is causing it so many problems. 7. ETC., ETC., ETC. NOTE: All of these deal with TACTICS used against teams roughly equal in talent (& do not include all-important "BEING OUT-PERSONNELED" consideration). A BOOK could be written on the topic, and I would hope Bill Belichick (or Nick Saban) writes it! For those of use who were not alive long enough to recall these or are unaware of these are you going to post the answers? |
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