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Post by hsrose on Nov 11, 2016 0:43:01 GMT -6
Down 13-24 at half the players battled back to take the lead 26-23 leaving 1:17 on the clock. Squib kick, they try a couple of passes, we get the pick on our 27 with :47 left. They had 3 timeouts left and I blew the clock management. Took a knee on the first play and then everything went their way. We ended with a 4th and 7 and tried to punt. Low snap and the punter goes down with the knee, their ball on our 14. PI on us, they get the td with no time left. Game over dude. Time management hurt the team twice this year, got to get better at it.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Nov 11, 2016 8:19:02 GMT -6
Ouch - just try and learn from it.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 11, 2016 12:44:45 GMT -6
Down 13-24 at half the players battled back to take the lead 26-23 leaving 1:17 on the clock. Squib kick, they try a couple of passes, we get the pick on our 27 with :47 left. They had 3 timeouts left and I blew the clock management. Took a knee on the first play and then everything went their way. We ended with a 4th and 7 and tried to punt. Low snap and the punter goes down with the knee, their ball on our 14. PI on us, they get the td with no time left. Game over dude. Time management hurt the team twice this year, got to get better at it. If I am reading all this correctly, the only thing you personally did wrong was take a knee on first down. But unless the play you called on first otherwise would have picked up 7 yards, you still would have been punting. Granted there probably would have been 3 seconds more run off the clock, but that is the extent. |
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Post by justaballcoach on Nov 11, 2016 13:13:51 GMT -6
You should assign one person on staff to be the time guy. He should have a chart of an idea of when you can start taking knees. We have a smart freshmen coach do this for us. He's the on the HC is listening to at the end of the game.
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Post by coachluey on Nov 11, 2016 13:38:38 GMT -6
If you ran the ball on first you could have lost it anyways. Danged if you do, danged if you dont type deal.
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Post by fantom on Nov 11, 2016 13:44:18 GMT -6
Down 13-24 at half the players battled back to take the lead 26-23 leaving 1:17 on the clock. Squib kick, they try a couple of passes, we get the pick on our 27 with :47 left. They had 3 timeouts left and I blew the clock management. Took a knee on the first play and then everything went their way. We ended with a 4th and 7 and tried to punt. Low snap and the punter goes down with the knee, their ball on our 14. PI on us, they get the td with no time left. Game over dude. Time management hurt the team twice this year, got to get better at it. I don't know that time management was the issue. I'm thinking that taking a safety could have been the move to make. |
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Post by olinedude on Nov 11, 2016 14:10:44 GMT -6
If they have all 3 timeouts left you have to run the ball 3 times and try to get the first and the game is over. If you still have to punt, you probably want to take a safety on a bad snap.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 11, 2016 20:40:18 GMT -6
Not sure about the safety here. He was probably on at least the 24-27 yard line (since Punter kneed it on the 14. Just kind of far away to do the safety and also risk messing up and giving them the ball inside the 10 or so.
Not saying it is the wrong move either.
You do have to take account all possibilities on the punt. Bad snap, blocked kick, big kick return, kick return for td. You usually don't think about punter fielding on a knee at that moment. But we do practice that with all our punters and snappers, so they go down into a catcher's squat instead of a knee, but still.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 11, 2016 20:44:34 GMT -6
Not really trying to make the OP feel better, but dang coach, if you would tried a running play and fumbled on first down and they would have then scored, you would have said, "I should have just taken a knee!"
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223 
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Post by jaydub66 on Nov 11, 2016 21:35:18 GMT -6
we just lost 29-27 ourselves. crazy coincidence because it's a really weird score
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Post by coachstepp on Nov 11, 2016 21:43:44 GMT -6
I can resonate. Last year, we were up 21-7 with just over two minutes left in the game. We get an interception that all but ends the game, but they call a phantom PI and the team scores on the next play, making it 21-14.
We get the ball back with 1:57 left. We get stopped on first and second down, but then break the third down run to the 3-yard line - just 9 feet from winning the game and advancing to the second round of the playoffs. Very next play we fumble, their DL picks up the ball, laterals back to their best athlete and he returns it 98 yards for the tying score.
We lose in OT, and that team finishes state runner-up. Still bummed!
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Post by silkyice on Nov 11, 2016 22:09:20 GMT -6
I can resonate. Last year, we were up 21-7 with just over two minutes left in the game. We get an interception that all but ends the game, but they call a phantom PI and the team scores on the next play, making it 21-14. We get the ball back with 1:57 left. We get stopped on first and second down, but then break the third down run to the 3-yard line - just 9 feet from winning the game and advancing to the second round of the playoffs. Very next play we fumble, their DL picks up the ball, laterals back to their best athlete and he returns it 98 yards for the tying score. We lose in OT, and that team finishes state runner-up. Still bummed! Wow! |
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Post by fantom on Nov 12, 2016 4:54:19 GMT -6
Not sure about the safety here. He was probably on at least the 24-27 yard line (since Punter kneed it on the 14. Just kind of far away to do the safety and also risk messing up and giving them the ball inside the 10 or so. Not saying it is the wrong move either. You do have to take account all possibilities on the punt. Bad snap, blocked kick, big kick return, kick return for td. You usually don't think about punter fielding on a knee at that moment. But we do practice that with all our punters and snappers, so they go down into a catcher's squat instead of a knee, but still. I don't think it's hard for the punter to run 14 yards to the end zone especially since, as was discussed in the thread on the Rules board, we're going to be holding the crap out of the defense. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 12, 2016 5:05:34 GMT -6
Not sure about the safety here. He was probably on at least the 24-27 yard line (since Punter kneed it on the 14. Just kind of far away to do the safety and also risk messing up and giving them the ball inside the 10 or so. Not saying it is the wrong move either. You do have to take account all possibilities on the punt. Bad snap, blocked kick, big kick return, kick return for td. You usually don't think about punter fielding on a knee at that moment. But we do practice that with all our punters and snappers, so they go down into a catcher's squat instead of a knee, but still. I don't think it's hard for the punter to run 14 yards to the end zone especially since, as was discussed in the thread on the Rules board, we're going to be holding the crap out of the defense. While I really wouldn't usually disagree, fantom, hell, it was hard for him to catch the dang ball while not going to a knee in this situation. Just think if the coach would have told him to catch it and run back to the endzone. If everything happens exactly like it did, the low snap coupled with then trying to go backwards instead of forwards like on a punt likely would have resulted in some kind of ridiculous turnover or play and possible td. The OP would be kicking himself thinking that is what caused all this. Also, if you take the safety, you give them two points, which now means a FG beats you. A remote possibility, but still there. In my opinion, the taking the safety is for when you are really backed up and/or it will waste enough time to run out the clock or only leave enough time for one play. I don't think any of those situations were present, but I could be wrong. The problem was the low snap and punter going to a knee which still could/would have happened or worse with your scenerio. I do not think taking a safety is a bad or wrong decision in this situation, but I also don't think it was the right decision and for sure not the clear decision. |
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Post by hsrose on Nov 12, 2016 9:19:23 GMT -6
You guys are right about the knee not being the issue. After further review I realize that taking the knee wasn't really the problem here, the problem was that my staff and I didn't recognize that we needed the 1st, not the knee, so I called for the knee. I'm bummed but I've learned a lot this year, 2nd as the HC here, but too old to claim rookie misteak.
Lost another game this year to our rival when they scored with :36 left, hit the PAT to win by 1. So while it seems that I've got the O/D/K and attitude/culture coming around, now I have to get into the game management more. Quite honestly we haven't been in a position as a program to really have to worry about time management, usually we're working on when do we get our subs in when we're getting blown out.
Safety - Thought of that on the way back on the 2-hour bus ride. That would have been a last option I think. My punter is a soccer boy, first year football player, and made great strides. But he's a soccer boy. We've practiced taking the safety on the punt, part of our Thursday walk-thru script, but not from the 14. I was thinking that if we did do the safety they would have gotten the ball at midfield with :30'ish left. My DC had adjusted and shut them out in the 2nd half so while a FG would have won it, he might have held them as well. And we had blocked a FG earlier.
Thats why this game is so great, so many ways to get things done, so many ways that things can go. Wizards Chess at its best.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 12, 2016 9:47:05 GMT -6
With ten yard end zones I've often wondered if it would be better to just snap the ball right out the back of he end zone in some cases.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 12, 2016 11:01:38 GMT -6
With ten yard end zones I've often wondered if it would be better to just snap the ball right out the back of he end zone in some cases. Agreed. We practice that once a year in the pre-season. Wouldn't try it from the 26 though. The only downside is that you don't burn as much time, but a whole lot less can go wrong. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 12, 2016 11:02:47 GMT -6
@hsrose , I am assumIng that the snap was from around the 24-26 since the punter caught on a knee at the 14. Am I correct?
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 12, 2016 16:20:44 GMT -6
I have always thought you should have some weird formation the other team has not seen on film to line up in with that first play. Make them burn TO #1 so they make sure they are ok. Once the ball is snapped take a knee then if you want. Now they have 2 TO's and you have 3 more plays. Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?
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Post by hsrose on Nov 12, 2016 20:10:56 GMT -6
Snap was from the 24, he came up to field the ball. We normally use a 12 yard snap.
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Post by jasper912 on Nov 12, 2016 22:19:37 GMT -6
Sucks for sure. As others have said, its 6 in one and half dozen in the other.
As far as the punter running the ball back for the safety. All he had to do was turn around and launch the ball out of the back of the end zone. Just stating this for future references.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 12, 2016 22:21:11 GMT -6
Sucks for sure. As others have said, its 6 in one and half dozen in the other. As far as the punter running the ball back for the safety. All he had to do was turn around and launch the ball out of the back of the end zone. Just stating this for future references. Yes, but in this instance he couldn't even catch the snap and punt!!! |
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Post by jasper912 on Nov 12, 2016 22:23:30 GMT -6
Sucks for sure. As others have said, its 6 in one and half dozen in the other. As far as the punter running the ball back for the safety. All he had to do was turn around and launch the ball out of the back of the end zone. Just stating this for future references. Yes, but in this instance he couldn't even catch the snap and punt!!! Oh I know. That's why I said just for future references. Earlier posts, someone said it was a long ways and the punter might get caught before making it to the end zone. I wouldn't have went for the safety. I would have done what you did, minus taking a knee on the first play. No biggie though, as others said, you know the defense is ripping at the ball. If you would have fumbled you would be wishing you take the knee right there. |
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 13, 2016 10:40:53 GMT -6
Yes, but in this instance he couldn't even catch the snap and punt!!! Oh I know. That's why I said just for future references. Earlier posts, someone said it was a long ways and the punter might get caught before making it to the end zone. I wouldn't have went for the safety. I would have done what you did, minus taking a knee on the first play. No biggie though, as others said, you know the defense is ripping at the ball. If you would have fumbled you would be wishing you take the knee right there. But how many snaps per game do you take WITHOUT fumbling the ball. Sometimes I think coaches ignore the actual facts and let a disastrous "what if" thought process to take over their game planning. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 13, 2016 10:53:45 GMT -6
Oh I know. That's why I said just for future references. Earlier posts, someone said it was a long ways and the punter might get caught before making it to the end zone. I wouldn't have went for the safety. I would have done what you did, minus taking a knee on the first play. No biggie though, as others said, you know the defense is ripping at the ball. If you would have fumbled you would be wishing you take the knee right there. But how many snaps per game do you take WITHOUT fumbling the ball. Sometimes I think coaches ignore the actual facts and let a disastrous "what if" thought process to take over their game planning. Ampipe fans know better. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 12:06:47 GMT -6
Tough loss for sure, doesn't sound to me like it was your fault though. I don't know if this will make you feel any better (it may actually make you feel worse!) but when you watch the film you'll see lots of instances where a different call would have been better, a player not missing an assignment would have resulted in a score on offensive or a stop on defense, etc. Point is, one decision doesn't decide the game, it's a whole game full of decisions.
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Post by hsrose on Nov 13, 2016 13:00:54 GMT -6
Re: One decision doesn't decide the game.
And that is another rule that I forgot. Yeah, I made a bad call, but we had 2 more downs, a punt, and then our defense to seal the win. Did my decision hurt us, yeah, but looking at the video that wasn't the end of the game. So that is a great reminder that every decision matters and that if you screw up less than the other guy you might be ok. I used to tell the kids that the player that made the last out in the ball game didn't lose the game, there were 7/9 innings of baseball that happened to get to that point.
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Post by olinedude on Nov 15, 2016 10:29:18 GMT -6
I have always thought you should have some weird formation the other team has not seen on film to line up in with that first play. Make them burn TO #1 so they make sure they are ok. Once the ball is snapped take a knee then if you want. Now they have 2 TO's and you have 3 more plays. Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? I like this idea lot. |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 15, 2016 10:43:58 GMT -6
Eh... Don't be hard on yourself coach. They had three timeouts: you couldn't have taken much more time off of the clock by running the ball. You guys lost the game because of a bad snap, nothing more, nothing less. Poor player execution caused this loss so just focus on that, Work on your snaps throughout the next year and you'll be good to go.
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