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Post by jg78 on Oct 21, 2016 23:16:27 GMT -6
Who would you say are the top three offensive and defensive minds in college football today? Also, what coaches would you say are overrated?
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jaydub66
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Varsity D-Line Coach
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Post by jaydub66 on Oct 22, 2016 3:57:30 GMT -6
They aren't in particular order but just guys that pop to mind
1. Urban Meyer, every where he goes, he has a good offense. Exception was the 1-2 years after tebow at florida 2. Tom Herman, great play caller, creative and never uses his guys the wrong way 3. Noel Mazzone, explosive offenses and always seems to get QBs to make good decisions.
1. Bob Diaco (Uconn) he does some interesting things on defense at ND and now at Uconn 2. Justin Wilcox (Wisconsin) Wisconsin does some complex things on defense in switching gaps and late movement 3. Don Brown (Michigan) At BC and now at Michigan, his defenses are just good
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Post by jg78 on Oct 22, 2016 10:10:54 GMT -6
I like Herman a lot. It will be interesting to see how his career develops.
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Post by 53 on Oct 22, 2016 10:29:17 GMT -6
Saban
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Post by Stangs13065 on Oct 22, 2016 10:37:42 GMT -6
Tom Herman Bobby Petrino Lincoln Riley Kliff Kingsbury Lane Kiffin Dave Aranda
And of course: Saban and Meyer
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 22, 2016 10:44:15 GMT -6
RECRUTING trumps "minds"!
Saban is the best at BOTH!
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Post by jg78 on Oct 22, 2016 10:46:08 GMT -6
Not necessarily saying Kiffin isn't among the best minds, but I believe Saban assistants get a lot of love mainly because they are always coaching the best players.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Oct 22, 2016 12:27:01 GMT -6
Not necessarily saying Kiffin isn't among the best minds, but I believe Saban assistants get a lot of love mainly because they are always coaching the best players. Very true. I added Kiffin, however, because he knows how to use them.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 22, 2016 13:20:46 GMT -6
Gotta add Mike bloomgren (stanford OC) and Rocky Long (SDSU) to that list.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 22, 2016 14:24:52 GMT -6
Whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore..LOL. Note: no Brian Kelly or Pat Narduzzi on the list
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 15:20:42 GMT -6
Who would you say are the top three offensive and defensive minds in college football today? Also, what coaches would you say are overrated? Offensively, I think that Scott Abell at Washington and Lee University and Bob DeBesse at New Mexico are doing some cool things mixing the triple option with the zone read. I also think that Mike Leach and Jim Harbaugh should get consideration for how they do what they do with their teams year after year. Defensively, Nick Saban is head and shoulders above everyone else. They're all trying to catch up to him. Dave Aranda and Rocky Long are doing some interesting stuff, too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 15:25:51 GMT -6
Not necessarily saying Kiffin isn't among the best minds, but I believe Saban assistants get a lot of love mainly because they are always coaching the best players. Just look at Kirby Smart. Saban himself is the best defensive coach in football, IMO. No matter who Saban names his DC, Saban runs that defense and runs it well year after year. Yes, he has athletes and always gets the top recruiting classes, but they are also extremely fundamentally sound and well-coached, do things schematically that are a step ahead of others, and have just been shutting down top teams this year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 15:27:55 GMT -6
It takes players to make them go but if were talking scheme wise in no order
Jim Harbaugh is setting new standards in recruiting and has had success in both the NFL and NCAA ill also add Joe Rudolph-OC Wisconsin Greg Davis -OC Iowa Lane Kiffin-OC Alabama Jonathan Smith-OC University of Washington
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Post by jg78 on Oct 22, 2016 17:01:53 GMT -6
I understand UGA hiring Smart. He's an alum and been the DC of the most successful college program going right now, and he may also turn out to be very successful at UGA. He's at least two years away from any calls for his head. However, the results to this point have not been very good and have reinforced a few thoughts I have on college coaching.
If I were an AD of a top program, I would...
1) Only hire proven head coaches who have sat in the big chair.
2) If I were going to hire a coordinator, it would be an OC. There's a little more magic you can work on the offensive side of the ball if you just have a few good skill guys. Defensively, you better have some bad dudes out there and there is no way around that.
3) If I were going to hire a coordinator, it would NOT be someone whose area of expertise is the same as the HC. I want someone who is at least truly running his side of the ball. I also would be hesitant to hire someone that you damn well know the program he's from is just going to hire someone else and keep on humming without missing a beat.
Kirby Smart violates all of that. No HC experience, his expertise is the same side as the HC, and Bama has been every bit as good on D since he left. He may turn it around and be very successful at UGA, but it doesn't look that way right now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 19:44:10 GMT -6
jg78, I get why UGA hired Smart for the reasons you mentioned, and I agree that he should be a few years away from anyone calling for his head... but he does now look like he might have been overrated because he was the DC under Nick Saban. Smart was the most in-demand assistant coach in college football for a few years and would turn down a dozen offers each year until UGA came calling, all because he had the title of Alabama's DC.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 22, 2016 20:01:18 GMT -6
jg78 , I get why UGA hired Smart for the reasons you mentioned, and I agree that he should be a few years away from anyone calling for his head... but he does now look like he might have been overrated because he was the DC under Nick Saban. Smart was the most in-demand assistant coach in college football for a few years and would turn down a dozen offers each year until UGA came calling, all because he had the title of Alabama's DC. I don't necessarily think that Smart was overrated as a DC, even though Bama hasn't missed him a bit and I wouldn't argue with the label. I just don't know that (even if we consider him a great DC) that he is going to be a great HC. His first UGA team has looked mighty similar to Will Muschamp's (another former Saban DC) Florida teams. Pretty good on D (for the most part) but terrible on O and ST (with a knack for losing the close games with bad play / mistakes) and that eventually lead to Champ's firing.
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Post by coachjps on Oct 22, 2016 23:27:30 GMT -6
Dino Babers at Syracuse
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Post by jg78 on Oct 23, 2016 11:44:12 GMT -6
At least as far as being a HC at a major school, Herman's stock has dropped some lately.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 23, 2016 12:28:05 GMT -6
Not necessarily saying Kiffin isn't among the best minds, but I believe Saban assistants get a lot of love mainly because they are always coaching the best players. They SAY "WINNING CURES CANCER"!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 23, 2016 12:28:27 GMT -6
At least as far as being a HC at a major school, Herman's stock has dropped some lately. As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 23, 2016 12:34:26 GMT -6
At least as far as being a HC at a major school, Herman's stock has dropped some lately. As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this. I don't need to be on a project with Stephen hawking to know he's smart. Your logic assumes that all people are basing on is win/loss record. Which isn't the case.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 23, 2016 12:41:11 GMT -6
As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this. I don't need to be on a project with Stephen hawking to know he's smart. Your logic assumes that all people are basing on is win/loss record. Which isn't the case. But to compare Stephen Hawking to Einstein, Heisenberg, Faraday.... and say who are top physicists... you would have to be much more intimately engaged with their works than coaches here on the board are engaged with the coaches mentioned in the thread.
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Post by joe83843 on Oct 23, 2016 12:41:48 GMT -6
I'm of the opinion that David Yost (QB Coach/Pass Game Coor.) at Oregon is very underrated. Pick his brain if you ever get an opportunity.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 23, 2016 15:01:31 GMT -6
At least as far as being a HC at a major school, Herman's stock has dropped some lately. As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this. So I have to be on a HC's staff to have an idea if he's a good coach? Watching his team play isn't enough to form an opinion? That is kind of odd. And all I said about Herman is I think his stock has dropped lately with recent losses to Navy (giving up 46 points) and SMU (losing by 22 points). He may still end up at LSU, Texas, or somewhere else, but I don't think people are drooling over him quite like they were a few weeks ago.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 23, 2016 16:21:40 GMT -6
As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this. So I have to be on a HC's staff to have an idea if he's a good coach? Watching his team play isn't enough to form an opinion? That is kind of odd. And all I said about Herman is I think his stock has dropped lately with recent losses to Navy (giving up 46 points) and SMU (losing by 22 points). He may still end up at LSU, Texas, or somewhere else, but I don't think people are drooling over him quite like they were a few weeks ago. Exactly...because Herman was "HOT" Now he is less hot. I absolutely agree. Living a As far as the first--Keep in mind that your original post was asking about "offensive and defensive minds" Not "a good coach" JT Curtis is the best football coach I have ever met and coached against. I would not say he is one of the best "offensive minds" but I really don't know for sure because I am not in the room with him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 17:34:35 GMT -6
As I said...whoever is hot...until they aren't hot anymore. Sadly coaches seem to be foolish fanboys when it comes to topics like this. The truth is that unless you are on staff with someone, you really don't know much of anything and really can not intelligently comment on questions such as this. So I have to be on a HC's staff to have an idea if he's a good coach? Watching his team play isn't enough to form an opinion? That is kind of odd. And all I said about Herman is I think his stock has dropped lately with recent losses to Navy (giving up 46 points) and SMU (losing by 22 points). He may still end up at LSU, Texas, or somewhere else, but I don't think people are drooling over him quite like they were a few weeks ago. A couple of losses are losses. Homer Smith was rightly regarded as one of the best offensive minds of his generation. His record as HC was 53-71. Norm Chow was one of the architects of the BYU passing attack and was a highly successful offensive coordinator at multiple stops. His HC record was 10-36 at Hawaii. Success as a HC rarely has much to do with having the "best mind" in terms of scheme. Wins and losses have more to do with talent, random chance, and an incomprehensible list of variables. These guys didn't suddenly become stupid when they became HCs. coachd5085 makes a good point about how people view coaches in terms of hot and cold. Herman was a "genius" 3 weeks ago. Now... not so much. A few years ago, Mike Leach was the brilliant "mad scientist." Then he suddenly got fired. Now he's just another middle of the Pac-12 coach. Paul Johnson was one of the best Flexbone coaches on the planet. A couple of years ago, everyone loved him. Now everyone blames his scheme whenever GT loses. The list goes on and on... Sometimes someone will come along who manages to stumble onto something new--and usually it really is through stumbling--everyone calls that coach a genius. It works for a few years until people catch up. One year's genius will be washed up in 5 years.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 23, 2016 17:38:44 GMT -6
So I have to be on a HC's staff to have an idea if he's a good coach? Watching his team play isn't enough to form an opinion? That is kind of odd. And all I said about Herman is I think his stock has dropped lately with recent losses to Navy (giving up 46 points) and SMU (losing by 22 points). He may still end up at LSU, Texas, or somewhere else, but I don't think people are drooling over him quite like they were a few weeks ago. A couple of losses are losses. Homer Smith was rightly regarded as one of the best offensive minds of his generation. His record as HC was 53-71. Norm Chow was one of the architects of the BYU passing attack and was a highly successful offensive coordinator at multiple stops. His HC record was 10-36 at Hawaii. Success as a HC rarely has much to do with having the "best mind" in terms of scheme. Wins and losses have more to do with talent, random chance, and an incomprehensible list of variables. These guys didn't suddenly become stupid when they became HCs. coachd5085 makes a good point about how people view coaches in terms of hot and cold. Herman was a "genius" 3 weeks ago. Now... not so much. A few years ago, Mike Leach was the brilliant "mad scientist." Then he suddenly got fired. Now he's just another middle of the Pac-12 coach. Paul Johnson was one of the best Flexbone coaches on the planet. A couple of years ago, everyone loved him. Now everyone blames his scheme whenever GT loses. The list goes on and on... Sometimes someone will come along who manages to stumble onto something new--and usually it really is through stumbling--everyone calls that coach a genius. It works for a few years until people catch up. One year's genius will be washed up in 5 years. It is a short trip from the penthouse to the outhouse in coaching. We all know this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -6
It is a short trip from the penthouse to the outhouse in coaching. We all know this. Exactly. The point is that the best minds aren't always found in the penthouse, but you will find plenty in the outhouse, even thought that's typically how people evaluate these things.
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Post by fantom on Oct 23, 2016 18:08:04 GMT -6
It is a short trip from the penthouse to the outhouse in coaching. We all know this. Exactly. The point is that the best minds aren't always found in the penthouse, but you will find plenty in the outhouse, even thought that's typically how people evaluate these things. And that's partly because the "best minds" aren't necessarily the best coaches.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 19:42:34 GMT -6
Exactly. The point is that the best minds aren't always found in the penthouse, but you will find plenty in the outhouse, even thought that's typically how people evaluate these things. And that's partly because the "best minds" aren't necessarily the best coaches. I completely agree.
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