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Post by hsrose on Jul 27, 2016 22:24:21 GMT -6
I'm the HS HC and one of my coaches, new this season, came from the local Pop Warner team/association. We are in a smaller, rural area in the central CA foothills between Lake Tahoe and Yosemite.
This year his son is playing at the varsity level. The program started their conditioning/practices on Monday. Comes to me today and says that the varsity team has 11 players, but may bring up 2 players from the JV level. That there are 40 kids total in the program right now. Also, the numbers are down all over, 9 varsity in 1 town in the league, 13 at another, so this isn't just a local thing. This bodes ill for me in the coming years.
There is no clear reason right now, concussion fear, parents not wanting to put in the time, kids wanting to play other sports/not wanting to play football. It may be that a local management change is needed. I will be going to the parents meeting this Saturday morning and may be able to get some more ideas on whats happening. I have no authority in the organization, they are just my feeder program.
What are you guys seeing? I would expect the larger areas to be ok, but how are the smaller areas fairing? Is there a correlation between HS winning and Pop Warner participation? I've never looked at things that way but is it possible that the parents/families are tired of losing at the HS level and so they don't want to join at the youth level?
I'm really perplexed by this right now, I don't know if there is anything I can do - per our section rules I can't 'recruit' the younger kids even if it is to get them to play Pop Warner.
Anyone have any ideas?
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Post by 19delta on Jul 27, 2016 22:31:26 GMT -6
Rural area. We draw from 2 communities totalling about 4,000 people and we have 34 5th and 6th graders out for our youth program.
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Post by coachirvin on Jul 28, 2016 5:05:49 GMT -6
I think I varies in my county. I live in the 3rd largest county in my state which is roughly 480,000 people. I think that concussions are a part of it and over saturation of leagues. I know that there are city leagues (recreation), PW, AYFL, and AAU. What happens is each league keeps having new teams established so they are all competing for numbers.
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Post by blb on Jul 28, 2016 5:13:27 GMT -6
One overlooked factor (at least by "sky is falling" media) is the population numbers.
Baby boomers are aging, their kids aren't having kids, and the sheer number of school-aged kids is down, and thus so are the numbers of participants in youth sports including Football.
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Post by natenator on Jul 28, 2016 8:54:14 GMT -6
I'm really starting to believe that the cost AND practice to game ratio is starting to become a factor.
In my organization here in Canada we run a Youth house league which has seen declining numbers for several years. A big reason for that is poor marketing over that time period but outside of that I routinely hear the time commitment (we're only 2 practices plus one game/week - 6 hours total) is an issue as is the number of games given the cost.
We charge $425 (including providing equipment) for roughly 10 weeks of football. 3 weeks are preseason practices (2x/week) and 7 weeks of games plus championship day. We get complaints about there only being 7 games meanwhile other sports like baseball and lacrosse charge half of what we do and have triple (or more) the number of games.
House league hockey costs are rangey and on the pricier side of a most rec sports but they are on the ice at least 2x/week from October to March with at least 1 game/week which means they play roughly 30 games in a season.
While I think there is an injury fear factor I think parents look at the cost to game ratio and feel the value isn't as high and then players see they have to practice a lot but don't get to play in many games as not being very fun.
I'm hoping that with better marketing that we can help change our fortunes around to bring out more players.
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Post by jrk5150 on Jul 28, 2016 10:11:17 GMT -6
I think it's all of the above.
The time commitment for the parents is bigger than in most other sports.
The difficulty factor is higher than most other sports.
More parents are willing to let their kids not work hard.
Other sports are expanding their seasons.
Concussions.
The image of football these days.
The success of the program - both the youth and the HS program. Kids don't want to play for a sh*tty youth program, and if the HS program sucks, that hurts too.
I agree the number of kids in the schools could be a factor but I just haven't seen the school numbers - I just don't know in our town how that might play into things.
A town near us was a HS power but their youth program was a mess. Then the HS staff got more involved, made it a big thing, and they are one of the better youth programs in the area now. However, their numbers have fallen recently as well.
I think concussions themselves are the least of the issues - I think it just gives the kids and/or parents an excuse to be lazy and not play.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 28, 2016 13:44:00 GMT -6
What are you guys seeing? I would expect the larger areas to be ok, Found out last night at our coach's meeting that registration for our club (mostly a house league, but one new travel team) is half what it was at that time last year. And this is in the Bronx, New York City. |
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Post by mahonz on Jul 29, 2016 13:35:07 GMT -6
I'm the HS HC and one of my coaches, new this season, came from the local Pop Warner team/association. We are in a smaller, rural area in the central CA foothills between Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. This year his son is playing at the varsity level. The program started their conditioning/practices on Monday. Comes to me today and says that the varsity team has 11 players, but may bring up 2 players from the JV level. That there are 40 kids total in the program right now. Also, the numbers are down all over, 9 varsity in 1 town in the league, 13 at another, so this isn't just a local thing. This bodes ill for me in the coming years. There is no clear reason right now, concussion fear, parents not wanting to put in the time, kids wanting to play other sports/not wanting to play football. It may be that a local management change is needed. I will be going to the parents meeting this Saturday morning and may be able to get some more ideas on whats happening. I have no authority in the organization, they are just my feeder program. What are you guys seeing? I would expect the larger areas to be ok, but how are the smaller areas fairing? Is there a correlation between HS winning and Pop Warner participation? I've never looked at things that way but is it possible that the parents/families are tired of losing at the HS level and so they don't want to join at the youth level? I'm really perplexed by this right now, I don't know if there is anything I can do - per our section rules I can't 'recruit' the younger kids even if it is to get them to play Pop Warner. Anyone have any ideas? My Org went from about 900 players to 650 over a 3 year span. Reasons were per the sky is falling syndrome that the irresponsible national media likes to promote just to get more clicks. This year 794 registered. Why? Town Hall meetings with snacks and drinks heavily marketed via social media. Our Org never had a social media Director until this year. It worked. Now the Org is able to actually educate Parents and put their fears to rest. Most every young man out there wants to try tackle football...but its up to their parents to give the green light. Figure out how to get to the Parents and your problems are solved. They want real answers and are tired of telling their precious little snowflakes...no. BTW my Org feeds 5 HS Programs. Two are very good and 3 are terrible. Im not convinced how well the HS does or does not do has any bearing on a 4th grader playing tackle football. |
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Post by mahonz on Jul 29, 2016 14:41:23 GMT -6
One other point. We had so many 7th graders sign up that we had to create a new 7th grade team. We now have 6 teams at 22-25 players each in my Org alone. There are 19 Orgs in my League.
Unheard of at the MS levels even before these attacks on football happened.
So...kids want to play. They are out there. Just need to educate their parents.
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Post by jrk5150 on Aug 4, 2016 7:45:23 GMT -6
BTW my Org feeds 5 HS Programs. Two are very good and 3 are terrible. Im not convinced how well the HS does or does not do has any bearing on a 4th grader playing tackle football. If you're a town program feeding one HS, I do think it can have an impact. Huge impact? Perhaps, perhaps not. I think the HS football team can impact the general attitude of a town towards football. If the HS team is good and creates a buzz, you'll have more kids thinking that's what they want to do. Likewise if the football program sucks and is thought of negatively or even not at all, there won't be that attraction of football being the thing to do in the fall. The kids that WANT to play will play no matter what. I'm talking about the fringes that could be 10-15% of your program, which could make or break a season. I know I could use another 3 kids on my team. I'm in danger of folding if a few things break wrong; 3 more kids would essentially eliminate that as a concern. |
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Post by davecisar on Aug 9, 2016 15:48:25 GMT -6
I added another team this year so we are at 5 teams in rural/suburban area
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Post by dblwngr on Aug 9, 2016 17:32:08 GMT -6
We are running our youth camp this week and we have close to 50 kids...had 100 last season.
Our staff is having this same conversation.
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Post by seabass on Aug 10, 2016 15:49:02 GMT -6
I live in a county of roughly 500k. A little over half of that population lives in one city of about 300k. I coach in a Pop Warner league that has 6 associations (clubs). I'm not certain about the other associations but we went from 5 teams and 98 kids spread across 4 teams down to 54 kids spread across 3 teams. I have to believe the entire league is down because I got my schedule and there are only 4 teams in my division.
The other side of my state (Seattle/Vancouver) has the big population. Pop Warner isn't as big in that area per capita but they are bigger than us. We had both Leagues from that area call our League last week trying to schedule games with us because they are all down as well.
I feel like there has been an attack on youth football. At some point we are all going to have to go on the offensive and launch our own campaigns FOR youth football.
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