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Post by 33coach on Jun 25, 2016 14:37:26 GMT -6
this is a venting post mostly... but looking for suggestions.
we are losing kids left and right to year round baseball here - to the point where im not sure we are going to have a team (only 8 kids so far).
is this happening to anyone else in small communities? how do you combat the year round baseball cancer?
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Post by hsrose on Jun 25, 2016 15:13:19 GMT -6
One of the things that I acknowledged/position I took when I took over last year was that I now had to market the football program. We are under health/safety scrutiny which brings awareness of football, people/parents think about it now. I don't think that there was any real consideration of football, you signed up, you played. Now, every one is told how dangerous football (and eventually all other sports as well) is and you are a bad parent if you let Johnny play. So they think about it now. Which means I have to sell them on playing football.
And with a number of other options, like baseball, football is now having to compete with those other things. It's a generalization but I think that the days of football being king just because it is football are dwindling. I am doing all I can to market the program these days - changed tackling to Hawk tackle, changed from practice pants to knee pads and shorts, made it clear we are constantly updating the helmet and shoulder pad inventory, making sure parents and community know that we refurbish the helmets every year, let parents and community know what the coaches have to do to be able to coach. I emphasize what the players receive from football - leadership skills, a place to grow up, a way to be a hero, a place where they can prove to themselves that they can be successful. I'm trying to sell the football program to everyone I can. Every conversation I have I try to let the person know what we are doing to help in producing young men of character.
We can't compete with some of the other summer sports - we have lifting and running and jumping and practicing in the heat before we get to our first fall practice let alone game. Baseball has a practice or two and a game or two each week. Run in the sun or eat seeds in a dugout and wear a uniform. Do OL get-offs in the heat or go inside and play LaBron? I'm losing kids to cross country (their t-shirt says "Real men run miles, not yards") because they run in the early morning or at dusk. I'm trying to let the parents and players know that by playing football they are investing becoming a better person because what we do is so hard.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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Post by 33coach on Jun 25, 2016 15:39:49 GMT -6
One of the things that I acknowledged/position I took when I took over last year was that I now had to market the football program. We are under health/safety scrutiny which brings awareness of football, people/parents think about it now. I don't think that there was any real consideration of football, you signed up, you played. Now, every one is told how dangerous football (and eventually all other sports as well) is and you are a bad parent if you let Johnny play. So they think about it now. Which means I have to sell them on playing football. And with a number of other options, like baseball, football is now having to compete with those other things. It's a generalization but I think that the days of football being king just because it is football are dwindling. I am doing all I can to market the program these days - changed tackling to Hawk tackle, changed from practice pants to knee pads and shorts, made it clear we are constantly updating the helmet and shoulder pad inventory, making sure parents and community know that we refurbish the helmets every year, let parents and community know what the coaches have to do to be able to coach. I emphasize what the players receive from football - leadership skills, a place to grow up, a way to be a hero, a place where they can prove to themselves that they can be successful. I'm trying to sell the football program to everyone I can. Every conversation I have I try to let the person know what we are doing to help in producing young men of character. We can't compete with some of the other summer sports - we have lifting and running and jumping and practicing in the heat before we get to our first fall practice let alone game. Baseball has a practice or two and a game or two each week. Run in the sun or eat seeds in a dugout and wear a uniform. Do OL get-offs in the heat or go inside and play LaBron? I'm losing kids to cross country (their t-shirt says "Real men run miles, not yards") because they run in the early morning or at dusk. I'm trying to let the parents and players know that by playing football they are investing becoming a better person because what we do is so hard. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. we are supposed to start July 25th with our summer sessions... but i honestly dont think we are going to have a team, unless 15 kids show up between now and then. this is the first year that i legitimately think i wont have a coaching position because we dont have players - really crappy feeling.
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Post by blb on Jun 25, 2016 15:50:02 GMT -6
33, what level are you coaching?
What do you mean by starting "summer sessions" July 25?
When is your first game?
Baseball isn't a "cancer" - it's what some kids choose to play, like it or not. And now they can do it more year-round, which most experts (including Baseball people) agree is not good.
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 25, 2016 16:21:54 GMT -6
We lost two kids to year round baseball in 2014. One would have started. The other not so much. The thing is it didn't make them any better playing year round.
We had a kid last year play fall ball and would go one day a week after practice and on Sundays I think.
I know exactly where you are coming from, and not having a coach due to numbers is a whole 'nuther rant you don't want me to get going on.
Baseball is easy to play and arguably easier than basketball. Football is hard. We can make it fun in many ways but by its nature it's hard.
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Post by 33coach on Jun 25, 2016 16:57:40 GMT -6
33, what level are you coaching? What do you mean by starting "summer sessions" July 25? When is your first game? Baseball isn't a "cancer" - it's what some kids choose to play, like it or not. And now they can do it more year-round, which most experts (including Baseball people) agree is not good. ive been at the middle school (7th and 8th) grade level for the past 5 seasons. we start our summer practices July 25th, first game is September 3rd. around here, year round baseball is absolutely a cancer, and spreading rapidly. every sport except baseball is declining.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 25, 2016 17:17:40 GMT -6
33, what level are you coaching? What do you mean by starting "summer sessions" July 25? When is your first game? Baseball isn't a "cancer" - it's what some kids choose to play, like it or not. And now they can do it more year-round, which most experts (including Baseball people) agree is not good. ive been at the middle school (7th and 8th) grade level for the past 5 seasons. we start our summer practices July 25th, first game is September 3rd. around here, year round baseball is absolutely a cancer, and spreading rapidly. every sport except baseball is declining. You guys have an interesting football club. If I remember correctly, you were planning off season coaching staff meetings in the winter, had decided to switch offensive systems, were researching various line splits and had even put together some preliminary practice schedules if I recall. And you don't even have a team? Vastly different than I guess what many have..but also probably a good thing. Definitely not daddy ball. Cancer is a bad destructive thing. Sounds like baseball is just more popular to your youth--that is not bad or destructive.
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Post by surfcoach on Jun 25, 2016 17:45:12 GMT -6
Coach
How are you marketing your program? We as a board are spending a lot of time marketing football. We get out to basketball, lacrosse and baseball in the off season to market our program. I have accumulated as much research on the safety of football as I can to be able to intelligently discuss and eliminate any concerns or misinformation parents may have. Social media is a great tool for selling your program and letting people know when you have an event happening or just to stay in touch with your families. Have camps throughout the off season and make them fun and competitive to introduce kids to football in a non-threatening environment.
Mike
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Post by 33coach on Jun 25, 2016 21:18:59 GMT -6
ive been at the middle school (7th and 8th) grade level for the past 5 seasons. we start our summer practices July 25th, first game is September 3rd. around here, year round baseball is absolutely a cancer, and spreading rapidly. every sport except baseball is declining. You guys have an interesting football club. If I remember correctly, you were planning off season coaching staff meetings in the winter, had decided to switch offensive systems, were researching various line splits and had even put together some preliminary practice schedules if I recall. And you don't even have a team? Vastly different than I guess what many have..but also probably a good thing. Definitely not daddy ball. Cancer is a bad destructive thing. Sounds like baseball is just more popular to your youth--that is not bad or destructive. yea we run our program alittle differently - alittle more professional then most JRHS teams. this probably comes from the fact that we dont belong to any HS program..so we arnt bound in any way. our season typically ends by late November, we are having coaches meetings by January and going to clinics by February/march. as my HC likes to say "if we waited till we knew what kids we have we would be 6 months too late". so we have to plan around the younger rosters from last year and our roster from last year to put together a picture of what our team would look like.... ultimately we start over every year because we cant control the quality of coaching at the lower levels... year round baseball is absolutely destructive. it should be relegated to a 3-4 month season like the rest of us.
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Post by 33coach on Jun 25, 2016 21:22:02 GMT -6
Coach How are you marketing your program? We as a board are spending a lot of time marketing football. We get out to basketball, lacrosse and baseball in the off season to market our program. I have accumulated as much research on the safety of football as I can to be able to intelligently discuss and eliminate any concerns or misinformation parents may have. Social media is a great tool for selling your program and letting people know when you have an event happening or just to stay in touch with your families. Have camps throughout the off season and make them fun and competitive to introduce kids to football in a non-threatening environment. Mike we do what we can in terms of marketing - we have a decent advertising budget every year: radio spots, 15 second local TV spots, banners, website, facebook, twitter. those are our primary channels. we have gotten away from the "School visits", but everything else is full blast. it just seems that 50 kids are off to some tournament in the middle of nowhere every weekend....
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 25, 2016 22:22:21 GMT -6
You guys have an interesting football club. If I remember correctly, you were planning off season coaching staff meetings in the winter, had decided to switch offensive systems, were researching various line splits and had even put together some preliminary practice schedules if I recall. And you don't even have a team? Vastly different than I guess what many have..but also probably a good thing. Definitely not daddy ball. Cancer is a bad destructive thing. Sounds like baseball is just more popular to your youth--that is not bad or destructive. yea we run our program alittle differently - alittle more professional then most JRHS teams. this probably comes from the fact that we dont belong to any HS program..so we arnt bound in any way. our season typically ends by late November, we are having coaches meetings by January and going to clinics by February/march. as my HC likes to say "if we waited till we knew what kids we have we would be 6 months too late". so we have to plan around the younger rosters from last year and our roster from last year to put together a picture of what our team would look like.... ultimately we start over every year because we cant control the quality of coaching at the lower levels... year round baseball is absolutely destructive. it should be relegated to a 3-4 month season like the rest of us. Coach--the kids seem to be having more fun playing baseball. It is a tough sell, I understand. Travel baseball offers a lot of "glitz" to the kids. I know down here, they get rings when they win a tournament lots of gear (bat bags, t-shirts etc), multiple games in a weekend etc. More than just recruiting efforts--what are you doing to provide an experience.
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Post by blb on Jun 26, 2016 6:20:51 GMT -6
This may not be the answer but July 25 seems early to start practicing when first game is September 3.
In our state the high schools don't start until August 8 with opener August 26.
Do you let kids come out after school starts?
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Post by newt21 on Jun 26, 2016 8:06:51 GMT -6
This may not be the answer but July 25 seems early to start practicing when first game is September 3. In our state the high schools don't start until August 8 with opener August 26. Do you let kids come out after school starts? This is how I feel, we're middle school also and our earliest date to start is August 18th, first game is September 7th. If we started in July (even if we were allowed to), our numbers would be awful because half the kids get to practice via school bus once school starts. We have non-mandatory workouts over the summer, only two a week and for only an hour and a half. Since they are not mandatory, we give incentives, got some silicone bracelets for making 3 workouts, if they come to 6 they get a t-shirt. We have kids that play summer ball and fall ball also, had a very good athlete tell me his parents wouldn't let him play because they were afraid of concussions and that he was playing fall ball instead. I told him to have his parents call me and I would go over everything we do to keep the kids safe, but their minds were made up. Keep your door open, recruit the hallways all year, make the kids feel good when you ask them to come out (there's a reason you're asking them to come out after all, not just to be a tackling dummy).
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Post by mahonz on Jun 26, 2016 8:39:28 GMT -6
this is a venting post mostly... but looking for suggestions. we are losing kids left and right to year round baseball here - to the point where im not sure we are going to have a team (only 8 kids so far). is this happening to anyone else in small communities? how do you combat the year round baseball cancer? One thing to consider is that sports like baseball and LAX have a different practice to games ratio than football. These other sports become more fun because you practice a couple of times a week and then play multi game tournaments most every weekend. That is what is killing football at the youth levels regardless of what size area you live in. Football is 8-10-12 games in a season while baseball is 20-30-40 games in a season with much less practice sessions. My take.
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Post by blb on Jun 26, 2016 10:45:30 GMT -6
Bottom line Baseball is a Summer game even though played in Spring in HS.
We're not going to win with some kids demanding they run, lift, practice all Summer when actual games are a long way off.
Baseball is more popular in some communities than others, and the two do co-exist well in many.
Now Fall Baseball is a different animal.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 26, 2016 11:13:08 GMT -6
this is a venting post mostly... but looking for suggestions. we are losing kids left and right to year round baseball here - to the point where im not sure we are going to have a team (only 8 kids so far). is this happening to anyone else in small communities? how do you combat the year round baseball cancer? One thing to consider is that sports like baseball and LAX have a different practice to games ratio than football. These other sports become more fun because you practice a couple of times a week and then play multi game tournaments most every weekend. That is what is killing football at the youth levels regardless of what size area you live in. Football is 8-10-12 games in a season while baseball is 20-30-40 games in a season with much less practice sessions. My take. it's a good take mahonz I think there are a few issues at hand. 1st is it seems that these other sports are giving a better overall experience at the youth level. As I mentioned, they get gear, they get rings if they win a tournament...essentially they are making their particular youth activity the big time where they are. A secondary issue though is : Is that a GOOD Idea? I don't think it is quite frankly, so the apparent solution of adding those types of trappings to the youth football experience might not be one I would embark on. Its a tough call. Another issue is that our sports society has become fixed on "winning" not competing. But more importantly, its not just winning, it is winning CHAMPIONSHIPS. Lebron James has gone to the finals 6 straight seasons, but people focus on the fact that he only has 3 rings. Jim Kelly and the Bills, 4 straight super bowls. No rings, no props. NCAA Div 1 football..just HAD to settle it "on the field", first with the BCS and now with the CFP. The NBA doesn't make it to network TV until the finals and the most power example of course is the NCAA Final Four. I would argue that only the most die hard college basketball fans keep up with the first 4 months of the season. Just the last 3 weeks. That's it. NCAA basketball is a 3 week season. Because we care about Championships, not competing. Hell there is even new slang for it. Apparently it is called "the 'ship ". Travel baseball--both fall and spring gives lots of opportunities for "championships".
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Post by coachjo14 on Jun 26, 2016 14:20:34 GMT -6
Great thoughts guys. when I was a hs head coach I competed against baseball, basketball, and even soccer during the summer. They practiced some then played a ton of games. my community loved baseball and soccer. They liked basketball and football, but summer hoops is still fun. We often ask our players to sacrifice a lot and it makes sense that they want to "play" rather than "practice/condition/etc." The only people who choose our summer over theirs is us.
Keep battling guys. This game and the lessons it teaches is worth it.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jun 26, 2016 22:43:08 GMT -6
And with a number of other options, like baseball, football is now having to compete with those other things. It's a generalization but I think that the days of football being king just because it is football are dwindling. Wait a minute -- when was that? Was there a time & place where football was king over baseball?
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Post by coachjuuice on Jul 13, 2016 9:21:26 GMT -6
I got an 8yr old that weighs 145lbs and he's not going to play football this Fall to "focus on baseball". The kid wants to play both. If he doesn't hit it to the fence there's no way he's making it on base. I know because my son played spring baseball with him. His parents are crazy
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2016 9:25:54 GMT -6
I got an 8yr old that weighs 145lbs and he's not going to play football this Fall to "focus on baseball". The kid wants to play both. If he doesn't hit it to the fence there's no way he's making it on base. I know because my son played spring baseball with him. His parents are crazy I think part of the problem is that youth sports, heck even HS sports..are now widely viewed as preparation for something as opposed to something to enjoy in the moment. "Focus on baseball" is such a foolish statement, as it alludes to some type of plan with an outcome down the road. They should just say he enjoys baseball more. No arguments can be made, but for whatever reason we now have people thinking they have to justify youth athletic choices with some pot at the end of the rainbow
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jul 13, 2016 10:55:39 GMT -6
Tell them the dangers of athletic specialization. Playing baseball year-round every year harms you more than it helps you.
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Post by coachirvin on Jul 13, 2016 11:17:48 GMT -6
My son plays baseball, football, and basketball. He's 9 and decent in all three. It's funny but 2 of his 3 coaches have already said he needs to make a decision soon as to what sport he wants to play. I told them both he plays sports because he likes them not for anything down the road. It's crazy how early they want and try to get kids to specialize in a sport.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2016 11:29:55 GMT -6
Tell them the dangers of athletic specialization. Playing baseball year-round every year harms you more than it helps you. That is my exact point though. Harms you from what? Helps you for what? If a kid enjoys playing baseball more than football, and he is being safe about arm usage (pitchers) what is the problem?
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jul 13, 2016 11:57:58 GMT -6
Tell them the dangers of athletic specialization. Playing baseball year-round every year harms you more than it helps you. That is my exact point though. Harms you from what? Helps you for what? If a kid enjoys playing baseball more than football, and he is being safe about arm usage (pitchers) what is the problem? I'm not strictly saying he needs to play football. But playing one sport year-round is downright silly. You're limiting your athletic abilities, risking burnout, and hurting the purity of adolescent athletics. At a young age, nobody knows what sport they "really" like the most. We've had guys who come into high school saying "I'm a baseball guy" and leaving saying "I'm a football guy". Kids change their mind on what they like the most based off of more than how good they are. Kids like one sport over the other based on things like team culture, success of team, friends who play, and if the coach is a d!ck or not. All of these things can change over time. Kids change their minds. No need to label them a "_____ kid" when they're young.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2016 12:19:30 GMT -6
That is my exact point though. Harms you from what? Helps you for what? If a kid enjoys playing baseball more than football, and he is being safe about arm usage (pitchers) what is the problem? I'm not strictly saying he needs to play football. But playing one sport year-round is downright silly. You're limiting your athletic abilities, risking burnout, and hurting the purity of adolescent athletics. At a young age, nobody knows what sport they "really" like the most. We've had guys who come into high school saying "I'm a baseball guy" and leaving saying "I'm a football guy". Kids change their mind on what they like the most based off of more than how good they are. Kids like one sport over the other based on things like team culture, success of team, friends who play, and if the coach is a d!ck or not. All of these things can change over time. Kids change their minds. No need to label them a "_____ kid" when they're young. You make some good points, but I think your whole message is written from the perspective of playing youth sports for some future benefit rather than playing because you are having a good time. Talking about limiting athletic abilities, burnout, 'purity of adolescent athletics', bringing up the concept of kids choosing what they like based on more than their perceived ability in that sport...all of those ideas seem to stem from a thought that youth sports is about the future, not the present. It isn't about being "a ____ guy" it is about enjoying a couple hours a week playing ball.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 13, 2016 12:25:18 GMT -6
well to update, its pretty much a done deal here. ill be looking for a new place to coach here in a few weeks if 20 kids dont magically show up.
85% of the kids i was expecting to get are doing the fall ball nonsense. the other 25% arn't enough to make a team safely - 15 kids.....
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2016 12:34:31 GMT -6
well to update, its pretty much a done deal here. ill be looking for a new place to coach here in a few weeks if 20 kids dont magically show up. 85% of the kids i was expecting to get are doing the fall ball nonsense. the other 25% arn't enough to make a team safely - 15 kids..... Serious question (to help you in the future). Why is it "nonsense"? I don't say that to be purely argumentative, but rather to help you think about the fact that something you feel is "nonsense" seems more appealing to 30 something kids and their families? As I mentioned earlier, it seems you guys are far from an unorganized group of daddyball coaches (off season meetings, changes in scheme etc all before you even knew who was playing) but for whatever reason you don't seem to make the experience enough for the kids to choose it over baseball. Less than serious question... if you had 110% of your kids (85% + the other 25% that aren't enough to make the team safely..lol) would you still only play 11 on the field at a time?
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Post by 33coach on Jul 13, 2016 14:19:59 GMT -6
well to update, its pretty much a done deal here. ill be looking for a new place to coach here in a few weeks if 20 kids dont magically show up. 85% of the kids i was expecting to get are doing the fall ball nonsense. the other 25% arn't enough to make a team safely - 15 kids..... Serious question (to help you in the future). Why is it "nonsense"? I don't say that to be purely argumentative, but rather to help you think about the fact that something you feel is "nonsense" seems more appealing to 30 something kids and their families? As I mentioned earlier, it seems you guys are far from an unorganized group of daddyball coaches (off season meetings, changes in scheme etc all before you even knew who was playing) but for whatever reason you don't seem to make the experience enough for the kids to choose it over baseball. Less than serious question... if you had 110% of your kids (85% + the other 25% that aren't enough to make the team safely..lol) would you still only play 11 on the field at a time? its nonsense because of all the data showing that 1 sport is injuring more kids then playing multiple - 15 year olds are getting tommy johns surgery because baseball coaches have decided to sacrifice some for the hopes of getting kids who are baseball studs.
they do the equivalent of a youth football coach "banging heads" year round for multiple years in hopes that the HS will have better players - nonsense.
also, yes those numbers are accurate - 85% dropped, 15% returned 10% new. probably should have clarified.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2016 14:37:45 GMT -6
its nonsense because of all the data showing that 1 sport is injuring more kids then playing multiple - 15 year olds are getting tommy johns surgery because baseball coaches have decided to sacrifice some for the hopes of getting kids who are baseball studs.
they do the equivalent of a youth football coach "banging heads" year round for multiple years in hopes that the HS will have better players - nonsense.
also, yes those numbers are accurate - 85% dropped, 15% returned 10% new. probably should have clarified. Excessive PITCHING is causing a small percentage of kids to have some troubles. Kids playing year round Centerfield or Short, or 2nd base etc are they having elbow issues? I have read a few of your posts where you reference "the real world". Coach, this is just a real world situation. Your organization is not offering the kids a better experience so that they choose football over fall baseball. All situations are not equal, and your organization is probably facing a tougher battle on this front then say youth football in Louisiana, Texas, etc. Culture makes it tougher for sure, but you still need to focus on overcoming the primary issue if you want to have a program next year.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 13, 2016 14:44:08 GMT -6
its nonsense because of all the data showing that 1 sport is injuring more kids then playing multiple - 15 year olds are getting tommy johns surgery because baseball coaches have decided to sacrifice some for the hopes of getting kids who are baseball studs.
they do the equivalent of a youth football coach "banging heads" year round for multiple years in hopes that the HS will have better players - nonsense.
also, yes those numbers are accurate - 85% dropped, 15% returned 10% new. probably should have clarified. Excessive PITCHING is causing a small percentage of kids to have some troubles. Kids playing year round Centerfield or Short, or 2nd base etc are they having elbow issues? I have read a few of your posts where you reference "the real world". Coach, this is just a real world situation. Your organization is not offering the kids a better experience so that they choose football over fall baseball. All situations are not equal, and your organization is probably facing a tougher battle on this front then say youth football in Louisiana, Texas, etc. Culture makes it tougher for sure, but you still need to focus on overcoming the primary issue if you want to have a program next year. the problem is there is no way to compete. baseball offers: -- minimal practices -- everyone bats -- low cost -- out of state tournaments football as a whole cant compete with that.... there is nothing on that list that football can beat. its a sad realization that football is actually dead here, because baseball coaches have decided that their sport needs to go year round, regardless of the damage of a few kids.
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