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Post by Coach Vint on May 24, 2016 8:03:59 GMT -6
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Post by blb on May 24, 2016 8:13:28 GMT -6
Very good post, thanks for sharing.
I once worked for a good principal who gradually grew more and more frustrated at not having control of the school because of a lack of support from central administration to the point he retired early.
A couple of his rules were no hats in the building, but you could have pop in class.
To replace him we got a golfing buddy of the Superintendent's who was a few years from retirement and wanted a pay boost.
Her big change? Kids could wear hats but not have soft drinks outside the cafeteria.
It was a difficult proposition to have discipline in our Football program when the kids weren't getting any during the day (or at home).
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Post by olcoach53 on May 24, 2016 8:38:38 GMT -6
This is awesome. Really hits close to home for the current gig. Gotta make the kids accountable all over the school before the culture can set in.
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Post by fcboiler87 on May 24, 2016 8:45:12 GMT -6
Great post and insight. It is so true. My first year here there was absolutely no accountability or discipline. Kids did what they want and when they wanted it. It was disgusting and you couldn't hold anyone accountable so it was a joke that I was attempting to hold people accountable on the field too. Now we have a new principal and assistant and I am the dean so it has been much better cleaning up and changing the culture of the school. As I mentioned in another thread, it starts at the top of your building with admin whether or not you can be successful. Unfortunately sometimes it even starts at the top above them if your super is a controlling micromanager.
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Post by oriolepower on May 24, 2016 8:47:45 GMT -6
Outstanding post coach! I had a talk with one of our players earlier this year about the importance of disciplining yourself so others don't have to.
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Post by Chris Clement on May 24, 2016 10:13:10 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule.
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Post by wolfden12 on May 24, 2016 10:14:00 GMT -6
As always Great Stuff coach!
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Post by Coach Vint on May 24, 2016 10:21:46 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule. That's a big part of it. If you aren't going to enforce a standard, you don't want to put the standard in place. If you tell your players to be 5 minutes early, then enforce the standard at 5 minutes early all the time. If you selectively enforce your standards, your players will selectively follow the standards. One additional point is that while school culture matters, we will not let that be an excuse for whether we enforce our standards. We will set high standards regardless of school climate. We will build our culture regardless of how bad the school culture might be. I want our program culture to impact the school as a whole. Our culture should be so powerful that it influences the school culture. |
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Post by fantom on May 24, 2016 10:25:58 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule. And that's why, as Coach Vint said, you need to make these rules clear up front. If you want everybody to wear black shoes make sure that you tell them before they go out and buy shoes. If you expect everybody at 10 AM films on Saturday, make that clear before the season. Don't tell them for the first time Friday night after the game and expect to see 45 bright, shining faces on Saturday. One thing that annoys me is when coaches have a rule about not wearing hats in the building but wear them themselves. It strikes me as hypocritical for a coach who's wearing a hat dressing down a kid for wearing a hat. |
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Post by 19delta on May 24, 2016 10:35:44 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule. Definitely supports that idea that it is better to have a few rules that are based on common sense than it is to have a litany of rules, many of which are going to be ignored because they are dumb or because the enforcing authority doesn't see any benefit in making sure the rules are followed. |
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Post by Chris Clement on May 24, 2016 10:40:14 GMT -6
Yep. I think it's a big mistake for a lot of new coaches, they set draconian standards because they see the team as their personal fiefdom, and come to realize those standards are impractical. I see a lot of teams with laundry lists of rules like that. Black cleats, white socks, no jeans, haircuts, shaves, be early, stand in straight lines at drills, be early, no hats, no jewelry, team coloured underwear... and they run themselves ragged pretending to care about stuff because they think it instills the sort of regimented discipline they need to run an 18th century infantry unit.
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Post by fantom on May 24, 2016 10:47:39 GMT -6
Yep. I think it's a big mistake for a lot of new coaches, they set draconian standards because they see the team as their personal fiefdom, and come to realize those standards are impractical. I see a lot of teams with laundry lists of rules like that. Black cleats, white socks, no jeans, haircuts, shaves, be early, stand in straight lines at drills, be early, no hats, no jewelry, team coloured underwear... and they run themselves ragged pretending to care about stuff because they think it instills the sort of regimented discipline they need to run an 18th century infantry unit. Don't get me wrong. We have a black shoes, same color socks policy (for games) and there are no hats in the building. I just think that you have to make it clear ahead of time. |
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Post by paydirt18 on May 24, 2016 11:13:28 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule. That's a big part of it. If you aren't going to enforce a standard, you don't want to put the standard in place. If you tell your players to be 5 minutes early, then enforce the standard at 5 minutes early all the time. If you selectively enforce your standards, your players will selectively follow the standards. One additional point is that while school culture matters, we will not let that be an excuse for whether we enforce our standards. We will set high standards regardless of school climate. We will build our culture regardless of how bad the school culture might be. I want our program culture to impact the school as a whole. Our culture should be so powerful that it influences the school culture. I have been coaching now for 20+ years and am entering my 11th as an HC. It literally was not until about a month ago that a light bulb finally went off in my head regarding program expectations and rules. As recent as last season I would issue a think 20 page front and back typed "Parent and Player" handbook knowing in the back of my mind that the kid and probably the parent won't really read it. They will just sign the back page and turn it in. In fact, I think I typed up that dang thing just for my own peace of mind. About a month ago I visited a friend of mine who is the HC at a school close by. He is a big proponent of servant leadership and I wanted to learn about it. His big thing was an acronym E.A.T - meaning Great Effort, Great Attitude, Great Trust. That's it. Those were his program standards. Then he took those standards and constantly used them as teachable moments. It was really great stuff - so much so that I am bringing a version of that back to my school. Along with that he also doesn't punish his kids with up/downs, sprints, or bear crawls. The theory is that kids should not be punished with "hard work". "Hard Work" is and should be considered good- if you work hard, good things happen, etc. I'm getting a little wordy here, but the point is what coach Vint has to add is spot on for me. I am in an urban setting at a school who has historically had a bad culture - but I am not letting the way that culture is affect what we are trying to do with the kids in our program.
Just my two cents and again, coach Vint thank you for sharing....
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Post by John Knight on May 24, 2016 11:48:42 GMT -6
Biggest reason I retired and really no desire to get back into coaching. All that crap that they want to wear makes me sick.
Sorry but shooting sleeves look stupid and anything not standard issue on a football player is crap. I was always known as the fashion police but I just hate the stuff. Officials won't enforce the rules about it either. Kids see that crap on TV and think, WOW!! I gotta buy one of those.
It is that way in the schools now, hats, cell phones, hot pants and lulus. Ridiculous!
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 24, 2016 11:59:22 GMT -6
Our school board president wants black cleats with white socks- for 6 years we couldn't afford not to have 4 colors of facemask. I told the kids whatever white socks you have works (high, mid, ankle) and cleats are team colors or black. Of course- I got a talking to. I personally could care less if you're a superman cleats guy if you back that chit up.
Now- our refs do go ape about (yet not helmet to helmet cheap shots) the sleeve deals and the buddy bands etc so it's off limits.
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Post by CS on May 24, 2016 12:05:50 GMT -6
I think the unstated point beneath this is that you shouldn't make rules you don't care about. If you don't really CARE about socks being matching colours, then you won't be motivated to enforce the rule. And that's why, as Coach Vint said, you need to make these rules clear up front. If you want everybody to wear black shoes make sure that you tell them before they go out and buy shoes. If you expect everybody at 10 AM films on Saturday, make that clear before the season. Don't tell them for the first time Friday night after the game and expect to see 45 bright, shining faces on Saturday. One thing that annoys me is when coaches have a rule about not wearing hats in the building but wear them themselves. It strikes me as hypocritical for a coach who's wearing a hat dressing down a kid for wearing a hat. Kinda like when a coach gets on to a player for dipping with a big fatty in his cheek. That one always gets me |
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Post by Chris Clement on May 24, 2016 12:12:56 GMT -6
Biggest reason I retired and really no desire to get back into coaching. All that crap that they want to wear makes me sick. Sorry but shooting sleeves look stupid and anything not standard issue on a football player is crap. I was always known as the fashion police but I just hate the stuff. Officials won't enforce the rules about it either. Kids see that crap on TV and think, WOW!! I gotta buy one of those. It is that way in the schools now, hats, cell phones, hot pants and lulus. Ridiculous! Hot pants? They've been around for fifty years. Even you aren't old enough to consider that "kids these days." |
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Post by John Knight on May 24, 2016 12:16:19 GMT -6
They didn't used to let them in the building unless their shorts were to their knees. I am talking biker shorts! They leave nothing to the imagination!
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Post by CoachMcKie on May 24, 2016 12:49:40 GMT -6
About a month ago I visited a friend of mine who is the HC at a school close by. He is a big proponent of servant leadership and I wanted to learn about it. His big thing was an acronym E.A.T - meaning Great Effort, Great Attitude, Great Trust. That's it. Those were his program standards. Then he took those standards and constantly used them as teachable moments. It was really great stuff - so much so that I am bringing a version of that back to my school. Along with that he also doesn't punish his kids with up/downs, sprints, or bear crawls. The theory is that kids should not be punished with "hard work". "Hard Work" is and should be considered good- if you work hard, good things happen, etc. I'm getting a little wordy here, but the point is what coach Vint has to add is spot on for me. I am in an urban setting at a school who has historically had a bad culture - but I am not letting the way that culture is affect what we are trying to do with the kids in our program.
Just my two cents and again, coach Vint thank you for sharing....
Coach, How do you go about punishing kids? I hate making them do up/downs and everything but it's the only thing I know. What's a better way? |
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Post by paydirt18 on May 24, 2016 12:57:17 GMT -6
Coach, How do you go about punishing kids? I hate making them do up/downs and everything but it's the only thing I know. What's a better way? As was talked about in this topic the expectations need to be clear and the accountability has to be placed. So I decided to take playing time away. Late to class? That's one series. In trouble with classroom teacher/administration? That's a series Late to weight room? Another series. If a kid gets up to 5 then the first game of the season is gone. Basically it puts all of it on the kid. Now I have to preference that by saying I fully explained how I will discipline, take time away etc. So far I have seen a dramatic improvement in punctuality, grades, and attitude. You would be surprised at how quickly that impacts kids.
As for the season same rules will apply - late to practice? Series.
I should also say I do treat each kid in a case by case scenario. If a kid, for example, is late because of a major incident (family, test, etc) obviously the rule would not apply. I think it is important to also note that before punishing - you got to talk to the kid.
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Post by lochness on May 24, 2016 13:22:28 GMT -6
Coach, How do you go about punishing kids? I hate making them do up/downs and everything but it's the only thing I know. What's a better way? As was talked about in this topic the expectations need to be clear and the accountability has to be placed. So I decided to take playing time away. Late to class? That's one series. In trouble with classroom teacher/administration? That's a series Late to weight room? Another series. If a kid gets up to 5 then the first game of the season is gone. Basically it puts all of it on the kid. Now I have to preference that by saying I fully explained how I will discipline, take time away etc. So far I have seen a dramatic improvement in punctuality, grades, and attitude. You would be surprised at how quickly that impacts kids.
As for the season same rules will apply - late to practice? Series.
I should also say I do treat each kid in a case by case scenario. If a kid, for example, is late because of a major incident (family, test, etc) obviously the rule would not apply. I think it is important to also note that before punishing - you got to talk to the kid.
I like this in theory...but there's two places I would have trouble applying it:
1. What about players who don't already play much? This would certainly motivate starters and guys who play important roles...but what if your standards are not being met by kids that are 3rd string types?
2. What about situations that are full-team issues? So, for example, I want our locker room to be treated with respect. No clothes left out, no food wrappers or Gatorade bottles on the floor, etc. If I can't pinpoint the culprits...this tends to need a "team" solution. And that seems to lend itself to some kind of unpleasant physical activity.
Thoughts?
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Post by **** on May 24, 2016 19:33:54 GMT -6
You're either coaching it, or allowing it to happen. You get what you tolerate.
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Post by groundchuck on May 30, 2016 10:59:45 GMT -6
Our school board president wants black cleats with white socks- for 6 years we couldn't afford not to have 4 colors of facemask. I told the kids whatever white socks you have works (high, mid, ankle) and cleats are team colors or black. Of course- I got a talking to. I personally could care less if you're a superman cleats guy if you back that chit up. Now- our refs do go ape about (yet not helmet to helmet cheap shots) the sleeve deals and the buddy bands etc so it's off limits. What does the school board president have to do with your socks? |
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Post by bluboy on May 30, 2016 13:36:28 GMT -6
You're either coaching it, or allowing it to happen. You get what you tolerate. This is our "mantra"; I agree 100%. IMHO, this is one of the things that separates good programs from the pack. |
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Post by theyoungballcoach on May 31, 2016 11:22:31 GMT -6
"You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen," - Mike Leach
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Post by brophy on May 31, 2016 13:10:37 GMT -6
great points, Coach Vint.
So much of what we want on Friday night is left to happenstance. Many times we can't even define what success looks like (for a position, for a group) to outline the steps needed to get there. Rolling the ball out each afternoon hoping "someone makes a play" is all the effort we're capable of because there are too many unknowns (when success isn't clearly defined).
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Post by groundchuck on May 31, 2016 13:13:11 GMT -6
This is one of my favorite posts on your website coach. Thank you.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 1, 2016 10:49:06 GMT -6
Coach, How do you go about punishing kids? I hate making them do up/downs and everything but it's the only thing I know. What's a better way? As was talked about in this topic the expectations need to be clear and the accountability has to be placed. So I decided to take playing time away. Late to class? That's one series. In trouble with classroom teacher/administration? That's a series Late to weight room? Another series. If a kid gets up to 5 then the first game of the season is gone. Basically it puts all of it on the kid. Now I have to preference that by saying I fully explained how I will discipline, take time away etc. So far I have seen a dramatic improvement in punctuality, grades, and attitude. You would be surprised at how quickly that impacts kids.
As for the season same rules will apply - late to practice? Series.
I should also say I do treat each kid in a case by case scenario. If a kid, for example, is late because of a major incident (family, test, etc) obviously the rule would not apply. I think it is important to also note that before punishing - you got to talk to the kid.
I get what you are trying to do here. I really do. But, I don't think it is your job to have to police the kids from the time they get to school in the morning. Aren't things like tardies or classroom disruptions handled best by the individual classroom teacher or the school administration? I think that sometimes, coaches get wrapped up in the idea that they have to always be teaching "life lessons". It's OK to just be a football coach, too. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 1, 2016 11:04:39 GMT -6
I also think you should be able I defend every rule you have, just like you should be able to defend every drill you run. If a kid asks why you make everyone wear black socks you should be able to respond with a straight face that you really believe the enhanced team unity will lead to wins. If you have a rule that kids can't chew gum in their living rooms you should be able to justify it.
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Post by blb on Jun 1, 2016 11:09:11 GMT -6
I also think you should be able I defend every rule you have, just like you should be able to defend every drill you run. If a kid asks why you make everyone wear black socks you should be able to respond with a straight face that you really believe the enhanced team unity will lead to wins. If you have a rule that kids can't chew gum in their living rooms you should be able to justify it.
CC, you really have a burr in your saddle about the sock issue, don't you?
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