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Post by knightfan64 on May 2, 2016 9:21:50 GMT -6
What's first thing you do? Started new HC job (first time being an HC) have gone in and been tracking attendance, weight room progress, new workouts, etc. We fundraised and did a lift-a-thon, and are trying to do a 7 on 7 tourney and linemen camp. Gotten great response out of younger guys.....that's the positive.....the negatives I have hit....
Older guys are just sort of bought into the "I don't have to show up, I'll get to play because I am older" attitude. (not all but a high %). Lift-a-thon went well, but feedback I get from trying to get competition and people for 7 on 7 and lineman camp is we're a historically bad program, why should we wanna play you at this point? Just wondering if any guys had encountered similar issues and what you did to change culture and create an atmosphere where program was respected in and out of school
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Post by wolfden12 on May 2, 2016 9:29:32 GMT -6
No one is above the standard regardless of age/ability. Send a message now. No commitment = No playing time. Give reps in the summer to the guys busting their butt. Post what others are saying. Create "periods" focused on those teams disrespecting. Just Win Baby! When they say you can't find a way.
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Post by coachgutz on May 2, 2016 9:34:56 GMT -6
When I started we had a lot of upper class men with the mentality that they did not have to show up because they never have in the past and still played. We tracked attendance in the weight room (we don't have a strong body/weight class so everything is after school) and for all spring and summer practices. We gave out shirts to those who were consistent in the weight room and those were the only one's eligible for 7 on 7. When fall started, for every practice missed over summer and spring, players had some sort of extra duty. This quickly made them realize they should have been at practices because they hate doing extra. We also allowed those who had been there to check out gear first, and pick their numbers first (this is most important to some kids).
My advice would be to keep doing what you're doing and focus on those there. If it's the underclassmen there, which it normally is, you're setting yourself up for a great year two because they will already understand your expectations.
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Post by knightfan64 on May 2, 2016 9:47:02 GMT -6
One thing we have done which I love is keep power points, for grades, behavior, weight room attendance, strength and conditioning tests, etc. For you guys, when did you see the payoff? I am assuming it won't come in year one, but year 2, year 3 when did it really start to turn around?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:52:31 GMT -6
I was in a similar situation last year and it was terrible. We had a bad season but a normal season based on what they have done in the past. I thought it would never get better but it finally has (at least the culture). We have set records for both fundraisers we have done so far. We have about 98% in the weight room everyday after school. If they do miss they come the next morning to make it up at 6:30am and everyone has done so. No one has just skipped weights. If they have missed it was because they missed school. They have a completely new energy about them and next year if they keep up what they have done so far we will set new records for our program in the weight room. I have never seen a team so excited about the weight room and I came from a program that was very good every year.
I agree with what wolfden said. Hold them to your standard everyday. Eventually they will meet it or leave the program. I struggled with this at first because I wanted to have good numbers in the program regardless of anything else. I learned the hard way that sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Don't get me wrong, I still want good numbers but I want to get them the right way. When they are there tell them the things they are doing well as a team and build on those. Get them excited about small victories from within the program. Try not to be too negative and trust me some days it will be hard! Be involved in the community and get to know the right people. I think this is as important as anything. You need people in the community to buy in and say good things about the program. And recruit the hallways!
Good Luck!
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Post by **** on May 2, 2016 10:00:12 GMT -6
In my experience, when taking over a bad program, the older kids are too late to change but you still need them. Get the highest level of commitment out of them you can but realistically they have to play to give you a chance to win. It's awesome that 5'6" 135# Johnny Freshman didn't miss a day in the summer. He should be rewarded, but not with playing time. He will not win you games. The guys that are there should be rewarded in a way like coachgutz said. You need the older kids to win. Winning cures everything. If you win you will get buy in from younger kids and increase your numbers. The seniors aren't going to buy in enough to make a playoff run, but if you can get them to go .500 or 6-4 that is a win. When it comes to finding people to compete with in the summer ask anybody and everybody. Scrimmage a big schools JV team or go to a smaller school you know isn't that good either. Get kids out there and make it FUN. It has to be FUN for them or you will never change the culture.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 2, 2016 11:21:38 GMT -6
This may sound silly, but I know it would have helped me personally as a player in a weak program if any of the new coaches (4 coaches 4 years) would have ever sat down and showed us just how weak we were and explained to us how hard other teams were working. As part of a losing program, we really had no clue that it was because we didn't have an off season lifting program, that we didn't work as hard as other programs, that we didn't advantage of opportunities to get better etc.
This is coming from someone who was "advanced" enough in football to make all the defensive adjustments and audible calls as an OG/OT / OLB/DE. I put the safeties where they belonged, I made the offensive audible calls, I coached in the program the next season etc. I "knew" football, was president of the Honor Society, graduated with appoints to 2 Academies yet honestly had no clue why we sucked. Now looking back it would have been so simple.
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Post by **** on May 2, 2016 13:05:59 GMT -6
This may sound silly, but I know it would have helped me personally as a player in a weak program if any of the new coaches (4 coaches 4 years) would have ever sat down and showed us just how weak we were and explained to us how hard other teams were working. As part of a losing program, we really had no clue that it was because we didn't have an off season lifting program, that we didn't work as hard as other programs, that we didn't advantage of opportunities to get better etc. I thought the same thing until I tried this. It did not go over well. Might have just been the school though. I have never, and doubt I will ever see a school as phuked up as this one was.
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center
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Post by center on May 2, 2016 13:27:01 GMT -6
To me as a first year coach you try real hard to have a great off-season and summer but the real culture change begins the moment regular practice starts. It is the first time that everyone is required to be there.
Before the first practice have a full team meeting where you lay out the vision, rules, expectations everything and then be ready to back them up the first moment the meeting ends until the moment you retire as a coach.
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Post by spartandefense on May 2, 2016 13:56:47 GMT -6
This may sound silly, but I know it would have helped me personally as a player in a weak program if any of the new coaches (4 coaches 4 years) would have ever sat down and showed us just how weak we were and explained to us how hard other teams were working. As part of a losing program, we really had no clue that it was because we didn't have an off season lifting program, that we didn't work as hard as other programs, that we didn't advantage of opportunities to get better etc. This is coming from someone who was "advanced" enough in football to make all the defensive adjustments and audible calls as an OG/OT / OLB/DE. I put the safeties where they belonged, I made the offensive audible calls, I coached in the program the next season etc. I "knew" football, was president of the Honor Society, graduated with appoints to 2 Academies yet honestly had no clue why we sucked. Now looking back it would have been so simple. This. My exact experience in HS. I had zero clue why we were so terrible (and am still learning what it takes). My coaching career has been based around the fact that I almost want to write the wrongs of the staff i played for. They didn't give sH!t.
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Post by spartandefense on May 2, 2016 14:06:25 GMT -6
In my experience it takes about 2.5 years to completely change the culture and see the benefits of a sound weights program.
Few things I have tried:
1. Call football meeting at lunch. Post weight room results. Then bring in pizza and Gatorades. Call out names of who gets to eat and who doesn't based on weight room effort.
2. Identify your two deep. Have position coaches call, tweet, email whatever to get the kids that will make a different to show in the weight room. Each coach should only need to chase around 3-5 players in that case.
3. The second an incoming frosh sets foot on your campus get him signed up and in the system for your weights program.
4. Convince lower level coaches to give up practice time to teach IN SEASON lifting.
5. Post weight room top 10s for every lift on the door of the weightroom (this way the rest of the school sees it as well). When a kid enters the top 10 or moves up make a big deal about it.
My experience is bad teams issues usually start in the weight room. Be prepared to coach the weightroom as hard as you coach practice. Never assume kids will put the correct weight on the bars or that they will complete their lifts. The days of just opening the door and counting guy is over.
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Post by s73 on May 2, 2016 14:27:25 GMT -6
I think this is one of the hardest things to do in all of sports period IMO.
Why?
Well, first you have to "sell it", then they have to "buy it" which YOU cannot control. Next, you have to produce ENOUGH results to show them what you are selling is WORTH buying so they continue to do so.
In reality, I think the best you can do is work hard yourself at football & building relationships & you have to be authentic.
Also...and this is HUGE and many will not agree w/ me but I don't think you can raise the bar immediately and expect that to work. IMO, you can't treat them w/ the same demands as the division champ b/c that will be too much culture shock for these guys. You have to slowly build it. Otherwise, you run the risk of alienating kids who might have met you half way & then worked their way to your side of things in the long run.
Again, JMO. I don't think anybody has an air tight solution on this.
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Post by groundchuck on May 2, 2016 14:35:20 GMT -6
Communicate expectations. Follow through. Determine what you need to change immediately, and what can wait. Know what you can live with, your negotiable items, and what is non negotiable for you.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 2, 2016 17:15:58 GMT -6
This may sound silly, but I know it would have helped me personally as a player in a weak program if any of the new coaches (4 coaches 4 years) would have ever sat down and showed us just how weak we were and explained to us how hard other teams were working. As part of a losing program, we really had no clue that it was because we didn't have an off season lifting program, that we didn't work as hard as other programs, that we didn't advantage of opportunities to get better etc. I thought the same thing until I tried this. It did not go over well. Might have just been the school though. I have never, and doubt I will ever see a school as phuked up as this one was. I could absolutely see pointing out the flaws actually blowing up in the new coach's face. I just know for ME PERSONALLY, it would have worked, and I would have been a much better player for it.
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Post by coach2013 on May 2, 2016 17:37:25 GMT -6
What's first thing you do? Started new HC job (first time being an HC) have gone in and been tracking attendance, weight room progress, new workouts, etc. We fundraised and did a lift-a-thon, and are trying to do a 7 on 7 tourney and linemen camp. Gotten great response out of younger guys.....that's the positive.....the negatives I have hit.... Older guys are just sort of bought into the "I don't have to show up, I'll get to play because I am older" attitude. (not all but a high %). Lift-a-thon went well, but feedback I get from trying to get competition and people for 7 on 7 and lineman camp is we're a historically bad program, why should we wanna play you at this point? Just wondering if any guys had encountered similar issues and what you did to change culture and create an atmosphere where program was respected in and out of school I think you embrace the upperclassmen and let them know you love them but will push them to better themselves by working hard with the underclassmen - as you anticipate those guys being better in the future. Let both groups, older and younger, know that its an open competition, the strongest, fastest, biggest will be on the field. Grade level doesn't mean squat.
Many simply embrace the younger kids and go from there. In some cases, it takes older kids awhile to realize its not the same old same old...and only a youth movement sends the message.
Best line I have ever heard about changing the culture was this simple: If you want to change the culture, change the culture.
As far as competition with other schools- youll settle that on grass in due time.
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Post by ahall005 on May 2, 2016 19:04:30 GMT -6
How do you feel about kids missing lifting to go to off season work outs for basketball?
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Post by hsrose on May 2, 2016 21:21:15 GMT -6
Culture eats change for lunch. I'm going through this right now, trying to change culture of being bad to one of being ok, and then to being good. Best record since 2001 is 5-5, 5-6 if you count the one playoff year in 2005.
I figured that the best place to really get started was in the weight room during the off-season. That's just ended last week and now we've started spring/May practice, first session was today. I've got kids lifting, had pretty decent average turnout, I learned a lot about how to run a weight room. But some were not coming to weights and when I asked I was told they were lifting with one of the dads - ex-Marine, currently in jail operations, he's built and knows his way around the weight room. I kept telling them that the team is being made in this weight room, not that weight room. It's starting to sink in, the other players know it. And it seems I got a couple of other kids that are lifting for looks. They look marvelous, but seem to be lacking in the power that the other kids are showing.
I haven't felt that even though I'm the HC that I had the horsepower to make big changes. That's now ending since we are now into our Spring practices - Thou shalt have no workout other than that which is posted.
You try and change everything and everyone kicks you in the chin. Get inside, work it slowly (but not too slowly), and one day you wake up and it's just the way you want it.
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Post by 60zgo on May 2, 2016 22:04:39 GMT -6
Be prepared to go 0-10... Depending on how out of control the place was before you got there it may be really tough to turn things at first. If you come in and set really high standards you are going to lose some people, and this is okay. Do it the right way and the kids will come around. Hold them all accountable and demand excellence.
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Post by fcboiler87 on May 3, 2016 6:55:25 GMT -6
I think any change of head coach ultimately results in a culture change, intended or not. Everyone is different. I know you are asking about a bad place, so I think many of these points are good advice. It takes time. I went in on the other end. I came into a decent place and of course you look for things that you can improve to help them be better, take them over the hump, etc. It's been rough and it may not work. Some places like the way they are and are content with it. I have been told many times the culture here will not change. I can see some of it working after 2 years of being here, but things are at work to keep them from completely working. It may or may not change. In the mean time we fight the good fight and keep going and hope that it works out. And that, like in a bad situation is all you can do. Good luck.
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Post by blb on May 3, 2016 7:05:52 GMT -6
How do you feel about kids missing lifting to go to off season work outs for basketball?
Don't schedule them at the same time?
What would YOU rather do - lift heavy weights or PLAY Basketball?
Try to work with the hoops coach.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 3, 2016 7:11:26 GMT -6
Older kids seem to get declining commitment here in general. A lot of kids quit here Jan of junior year. A few more over summer going into senior. We always have a lot of younger guys and 4-5 seniors tops. We were supposed to have 11 seniors this year... I'll be SHOCKED if we have 6 by fall.
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Post by pistolwhipped on May 3, 2016 7:32:48 GMT -6
How do you feel about kids missing lifting to go to off season work outs for basketball?
Don't schedule them at the same time?
What would YOU rather do - lift heavy weights or PLAY Basketball?
Try to work with the hoops coach.
In Indiana this is maybe the best advice ever! The basketball coach better be a close acquaintance! Try to get them (hoops guys) to buy into what you're doing too. We have scheduled our summer with them. They have certain dates we keep away from and they stay away from ours.
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Post by knightfan64 on May 3, 2016 7:47:37 GMT -6
Don't schedule them at the same time?
What would YOU rather do - lift heavy weights or PLAY Basketball?
Try to work with the hoops coach.
In Indiana this is maybe the best advice ever! The basketball coach better be a close acquaintance! Try to get them (hoops guys) to buy into what you're doing too. We have scheduled our summer with them. They have certain dates we keep away from and they stay away from ours. In small schools I think hoops and football working together is a necessity. Big thing I like about our new situation is our B-Ball coach will tell his kids he would like them to play football, lift weights, etc. We also tell the kids who play both, they can do both. For example, our conditioning runs from 3:30-5:00 and open gym generally doesn't pick up til 5:15-5:30, so we have had kids lift with us and condition and then go play pick up. Obviously, you try to avoid crossover as much as possible though. Like the poster said what kid wouldn't wanna shoot basketball instead of lifting heavy weights?
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Post by blb on May 3, 2016 8:07:19 GMT -6
At one smaller (enrollment ~650) school I was at, because we had to share athletes, our Basketball coach and I had this arrangement:
He would be done with Basketball by July 1, and we wouldn't start until after July 1 (more like July 4).
Worked out well.
We encouraged Football players to lift and run on their own until July, gave them a booklet with suggested workouts.
Frankly the "break" for both of us - players and coach - wasn't a bad thing. They can get tired of hearing your voice and a coach can get weary of the grind too. Don't want to be emotionally or mentally exhausted before practice even starts.
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Post by Coach Vint on May 3, 2016 10:23:22 GMT -6
Culture is going to be built by design or by chance. You choose which of those will be the way culture is built in your program. Kids will rise to the level of expectations you set for them. Set high expectations, they will achieve them. Set low expectations, they will achieve them. The key is, you must live your culture. If you want them to achieve, you have to achieve. They have to see your drive, passion, and enthusiasm.
What do you want your culture to look like? What do you want your program identity to be? You get to choose. You can't wait until August to build championship culture. If you want to build culture you have to build it today. Now. Meet with your team and lay out your vision. Be short and to the point. Then set your core values. These are the four or five non-negotaibles of how your program will live. Trust, Accountability, Toughness, etc. etc. 5 core values is plenty.
Set simple standards of performance and hold them accountable. Meet one on one with all returning players who will be seniors. 10 Minute meetings to get to know them and let them get to know you. Have a senior team building activity. Get them drawn in and let them know this is bigger than you or them. They have a chance to help build a foundation they can be proud of.
Let your kids know you care about them and will be there for them. Then, earn their trust. Be clear and consistent. Be passionate and enthusiastic, set high standards, and hold them accountable. Be honest with them. "It's because we care that we will tell you the truth."
You choose the culture, and the culture can be changed. I have been a part of a turnaround at a couple of places everyone said it couldn't be done. It all starts with culture and it starts and ends with you.
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Post by Coach Vint on May 3, 2016 10:23:33 GMT -6
Culture is going to be built by design or by chance. You choose which of those will be the way culture is built in your program. Kids will rise to the level of expectations you set for them. Set high expectations, they will achieve them. Set low expectations, they will achieve them. The key is, you must live your culture. If you want them to achieve, you have to achieve. They have to see your drive, passion, and enthusiasm.
What do you want your culture to look like? What do you want your program identity to be? You get to choose. You can't wait until August to build championship culture. If you want to build culture you have to build it today. Now. Meet with your team and lay out your vision. Be short and to the point. Then set your core values. These are the four or five non-negotaibles of how your program will live. Trust, Accountability, Toughness, etc. etc. 5 core values is plenty.
Set simple standards of performance and hold them accountable. Meet one on one with all returning players who will be seniors. 10 Minute meetings to get to know them and let them get to know you. Have a senior team building activity. Get them drawn in and let them know this is bigger than you or them. They have a chance to help build a foundation they can be proud of.
Let your kids know you care about them and will be there for them. Then, earn their trust. Be clear and consistent. Be passionate and enthusiastic, set high standards, and hold them accountable. Be honest with them. "It's because we care that we will tell you the truth."
You choose the culture, and the culture can be changed. I have been a part of a turnaround at a couple of places everyone said it couldn't be done. It all starts with culture and it starts and ends with you.
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Post by blb on May 3, 2016 10:33:01 GMT -6
Some kids will rise to high expectations (or as I called them because I was an English teacher, "Great Expectations").
Others will quit instead.
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Post by Coach Vint on May 3, 2016 13:03:28 GMT -6
Some kids will rise to high expectations (or as I called them because I was an English teacher, "Great Expectations"). Others will quit instead. That's the tough part. My goal as a coach is to have no one quit. Is it realistic? No, but realistic goals do not make championship programs. We invariably will have a few decide it is not for them. But if they know you unconditionally love them, not for what they do, but for who they are, the will have to crawl all over themselves to quit. The other deal is that we don't let them just quit. They have to work to quit. This helps when you have a unified athletic department with everyone on the same page. We have process for quitting. It is more than just "not showing up." Here is the other thing. We know the standards are difficult to meet. We know there will be times when you will fail. However, we will not give up on you. Even if you give up on yourself, we will not give up on you. Over the years we have had several kids make a poor decision and quit. We reached out to them. We encouraged them. We gave them a way back. We call it the path back to prosperity. Here is your path... Here is how we will support you to get there... Here is why this path is better than the one you are on... Some of these kids found a way back to the path. Some didn't. But, none of them will say they aren't better off for their experience in our program. And those that make it back often make us proud.
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Post by ahall005 on May 3, 2016 13:46:00 GMT -6
can you explain your process for quitting?
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Post by eaglemountie on May 3, 2016 16:39:55 GMT -6
Hold them to high expectations. No exceptions.
Compete at everything.
Create a theme or themes for what your program is about and live it.
Make football important.
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