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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2016 11:57:18 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Mar 2, 2016 12:04:09 GMT -6
The tackling and other fundamentals in NFL have gotten worse (not just my opinion, have heard analysts including former players say it) since practice time in full pads was reduced.
I think it's a misguided attempt to say "See, we're making the game safer!"
Counter-intuitive to think that you're not going to tackle human beings moving at full speed during practice but then do it either effectively or safely on game day.
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Post by fantom on Mar 2, 2016 12:20:48 GMT -6
The tackling and other fundamentals in NFL have gotten worse (not just my opinion, have heard analysts including former players say it) since practice time in full pads was reduced. I think it's a misguided attempt to say "See, we're making the game safer!" Counter-intuitive to think that you're not going to tackle human beings moving at full speed during practice but then do it either effectively or safely on game day. Dartmouth led 1AA in scoring defense. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 2, 2016 12:26:36 GMT -6
I understand what they are doing-- much like Gagliardi. However, I think the real "danger" might be if people try to extend this practice down to the HS level where the athletes have not been recruited due to their already proven football prowess.
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 2, 2016 12:49:56 GMT -6
Honest question, and this might sound like blasphemy.....but, how many of you have seen BAD tacklers actually turn into GOOD ones?
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Post by eaglemountie on Mar 2, 2016 12:53:35 GMT -6
Honest question, and this might sound like blasphemy.....but, how many of you have seen BAD tacklers actually turn into GOOD ones? How does a bad tackler become a good tackler without practicing it? |
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 2, 2016 12:59:28 GMT -6
Honest question, and this might sound like blasphemy.....but, how many of you have seen BAD tacklers actually turn into GOOD ones? How does a bad tackler become a good tackler without practicing it? I'm saying I've seen very few kids go from being poor tacklers to good ones even with practice. Sure, there are exceptions as there is in everything in life, but for the most part......I don't see it. Again, sounds like blasphemy-I know. |
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Post by agap on Mar 2, 2016 13:00:17 GMT -6
Football has changed a lot in the last 50 years, including how teams practice. Things will continue to change and I doubt it's going to ruin the game.
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Post by rudyrude9 on Mar 2, 2016 13:01:05 GMT -6
I played in high school, 4 years in college at Wisconsin Whitewater, have coached the last 12 years in high school and can't ever remember tackling in practice once the season starts. To me this is a non story. Isn't this what everyone already does anyway?
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 2, 2016 13:03:33 GMT -6
I don't see expecting every kid to be a great tackler (or even most) any more radical than expecting most kids to possess the hand-eye coordination characterisitics that it requires to be a good WR.
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 2, 2016 13:07:16 GMT -6
I'm not a spread, 4-5 wide chuck and duck, "face melter" fanatic- but, the evolution of the spread game has exposed tackling more than anything.
I'd be willing to bet that in the open field, none of us could tackle ourselves "in space" even half of the time.
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Post by coachphillip on Mar 2, 2016 13:10:21 GMT -6
Nobody expects every single kid to be a great tackler the same way nobody expects every single kid to be a great receiver. But, it is 100% my expectation that every single kid will IMPROVE at tackling the same way every receiver coach's goal is to IMPROVE the kids' ability to catch.
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Post by eaglemountie on Mar 2, 2016 13:16:33 GMT -6
Much like others have said, in high school I'm not sure you can get away with it and still be a good tackling team...
Maybe at some levels but certainly not overall...
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Post by 44dlcoach on Mar 2, 2016 13:58:22 GMT -6
I'd say the bigger issue is not whether or not you can make them a GOOD tackling team without some full speed practice, but whether or not you can be a SAFE tackling team without some full speed practice.
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Post by tackler77 on Mar 2, 2016 14:05:54 GMT -6
We changed things up the last couple of years and went with the "hawk tackling". We never do full tackling drills in practice but we do drills that focus on the fundamentals of the tackling with very low contact. If we want to practice our form at full speed we will using bags to tackle and roll not another player. We also practice some version of form tackling for at least 5 minutes every day, usually at walking speed to make sure that our players form stays good. We feel that by focusing on form for a little bit each day we our promoting the SAFE tackling that everyone is talking about. We actually have seen an improvement on the field and our players are making great tackles. We have also seen a decline in the number of missed/broken tackles over the past two years.
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Post by poundtherock1 on Mar 2, 2016 14:26:07 GMT -6
We changed things up the last couple of years and went with the "hawk tackling". We never do full tackling drills in practice but we do drills that focus on the fundamentals of the tackling with very low contact. If we want to practice our form at full speed we will using bags to tackle and roll not another player. We also practice some version of form tackling for at least 5 minutes every day, usually at walking speed to make sure that our players form stays good. We feel that by focusing on form for a little bit each day we our promoting the SAFE tackling that everyone is talking about. We actually have seen an improvement on the field and our players are making great tackles. We have also seen a decline in the number of missed/broken tackles over the past two years. Big fan of the hawk tackle |
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Post by agap on Mar 2, 2016 15:13:22 GMT -6
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
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Post by SconnieOC on Mar 2, 2016 16:10:39 GMT -6
It's not like they're not tackling ever. Just not once they get into the season... Dartmouth is definitely a bit of an outlier in this one as they never tackle, even in camp, but it's hard to argue with their numbers. We almost never go full live in practice.. always Thud tempo. Occasionally we'll go full live for a 2 minute drill or in a blitz/goalline period, but even that is rare.
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Post by dubber on Mar 2, 2016 16:41:20 GMT -6
Missed tackles have very little to do with technique, imo.
They have to do with strength, and with pursuit angles/block destruction.
Learn how to hand fight, leverage, and escape, and be strong when you get there.
We get all that without colliding in practice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 17:52:43 GMT -6
Missed tackles have very little to do with technique, imo. They have to do with strength, and with pursuit angles/block destruction. Learn how to hand fight, leverage, and escape, and be strong when you get there. We get all that without colliding in practice. Agreed. Leverage and being under control when going to make the tackle are the two biggest things I see. Getting as many guys there in pursuit as possible helps, too. You can work on those things without hitting. |
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 2, 2016 22:57:57 GMT -6
Nobody expects every single kid to be a great tackler the same way nobody expects every single kid to be a great receiver. But, it is 100% my expectation that every single kid will IMPROVE at tackling the same way every receiver coach's goal is to IMPROVE the kids' ability to catch. No doubt. Agreed. My point is that it's rare I've seen kids who were bad at it, become great or good for that matter (or to the point where they'd make any kind of noticeable impact). If practiced a lot, they have no choice but to improve....we hope..at least that's what we are going to tell ourselves lol-- You show me a kid with good hips/explosive, a little aggression (obviously strength is a plus, when is it not) and I'm going to take my chances that the cat can tackle. |
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Post by coachshepherd on Mar 3, 2016 9:44:35 GMT -6
More tackles are missed IMO from poor leverage positions. Tracking to me is paramount to making good, safe tackles, and there is no contact needed for it. I like the hawk tackle system, how it helps you teach leverage and tracking. If I can get my guys to track the proper hip and get into a good hitting position, I like our chances of making that tackle.
Regardless, how much true live, take to the ground tackling do teams do in practice? I figure it is more Thud tempo, but a may be off base on that.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Mar 3, 2016 9:56:56 GMT -6
1. They didn't say you couldn't tackle, just not during the season. Pre season is fine.
2. They didn't say you cant practice tackling...just not on players at full speed.
3. How many folks still run 4 hour practices where you beat and bang your best players during the season anyway?
Non-Issue. Kids become better tacklers with better technique, more reps, and more confidence. All can be gained without running full-speed at each other and hammering on your own guys during practice.
The scary part is the "this is not what we have always done" argument.
Our state adopted new contact rules this year. Alot of coaches were up in arms about it. We didnt change much and had our best season in program history and stayed healthier and fresher at the end of the year.
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Post by blb on Mar 3, 2016 10:01:12 GMT -6
The tackling and other fundamentals in NFL have gotten worse (not just my opinion, have heard analysts including former players say it) since practice time in full pads was reduced. I think it's a misguided attempt to say "See, we're making the game safer!" Counter-intuitive to think that you're not going to tackle human beings moving at full speed during practice but then do it either effectively or safely on game day. Dartmouth led 1AA in scoring defense.
...playing other Ivies.
Cause and effect?
I dunno.
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Post by blb on Mar 3, 2016 10:34:48 GMT -6
This is a somewhat rhetorical question, but does tackling (unless it's helmet-to-helmet) cause that many injuries to either tackler or BC?
Once in season we never let our kids tackle to the ground or hit each other below the waist. We only wore full pads two days a week.
The pressing issue has been concussions, especially Sub-Concussive trauma supposedly caused by repetitive in-line contact.
This move by Ivy League does nothing to alleviate that.
It appears to be attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Mar 3, 2016 10:39:28 GMT -6
I agree with you blb, to me, you are much more likely to turn an ankle, or hurt a shoulder, or break a finger etc.
We do it to prevent ALL injuries, not just concussions.
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Post by hammer66 on Mar 3, 2016 10:40:09 GMT -6
I played in high school, 4 years in college at Wisconsin Whitewater, have coached the last 12 years in high school and can't ever remember tackling in practice once the season starts. To me this is a non story. Isn't this what everyone already does anyway? I believe this is already common practice in our area. A ton of THUD.... very little full contact. From my experience the bigger the school the better it works and vice versa. I see it as a non story as well. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 3, 2016 10:43:12 GMT -6
It's hard not to "tackle to the ground" using the Hawk tackle. We just preach smart tackling and quick whistle everything.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
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Post by SconnieOC on Mar 3, 2016 10:48:02 GMT -6
Dartmouth led 1AA in scoring defense.
...playing other Ivies.
Cause and effect?
I dunno.
It's all relative isn't it? I don't really care who you have or who you play if you're putting up numbers like that. I mean they aren't defending Baylor but they don't have the dudes that Oklahoma has. Just because a school in the smallest classification in a state leads their class in total defense, they're still good. I mean they lead the freaking country, they're doing something right. |
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Post by blb on Mar 3, 2016 11:02:48 GMT -6
I'm not denigrating Ivy League Football but most would agree it's not the highest level in FCS.
When I was in college we were among Top Ten in several D-I statistical categories. We were a MAC team, weren't playing Michigan, Ohio State, USC, ND, etc.
My question was more did Dartmouth lead nation in scoring defense BECAUSE they didn't tackle in practice (cause and effect), or was there other reason(s)?
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