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Post by 33coach on Dec 18, 2015 11:31:13 GMT -6
i often wonder if the game would be safer if we used rugby caps....
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Post by 33coach on Dec 18, 2015 11:31:58 GMT -6
I think you would have far more concussions than with pads. I'd be very interested to see concussions from nfl as compared to pro rugby. rugby has the lowest concussion rate to any contact sport in the US (per capita...understanding that populations are different) (according to CDC stats)
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Post by NC1974 on Dec 18, 2015 12:27:53 GMT -6
Two big differences between football and rugby:
1) No blocking - that takes away a lot of head banging. Instead of an OL having say 60 plays a game where they are banging heads on almost everyone of those, a guy might find himself in 20-30 (that's a guess on my part) rucks where they might be banging heads
2) For the most part, rugby is not a game of inches where driving the ball carrier backward is so essential (the one exception to that would be if the ball carrier was right on the try line (goal line).
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Post by 33coach on Dec 18, 2015 12:33:26 GMT -6
Two big differences between football and rugby: 1) No blocking - that takes away a lot of head banging. Instead of an OL having say 60 plays a game where they are banging heads on almost everyone of those, a guy might find himself in 20-30 (that's a guess on my part) rucks where they might be banging heads 2) For the most part, rugby is not a game of inches where driving the ball carrier backward is so essential (the one exception to that would be if the ball carrier was right on the try line (goal line). thats an interesting point (1) - i doubt any study has been done, but i wonder if you went and studied the brain trauma of every position in football...would OL be one of the worst?
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 18, 2015 13:20:22 GMT -6
Two big differences between football and rugby: 1) No blocking - that takes away a lot of head banging. Instead of an OL having say 60 plays a game where they are banging heads on almost everyone of those, a guy might find himself in 20-30 (that's a guess on my part) rucks where they might be banging heads 2) For the most part, rugby is not a game of inches where driving the ball carrier backward is so essential (the one exception to that would be if the ball carrier was right on the try line (goal line). thats an interesting point (1) - i doubt any study has been done, but i wonder if you went and studied the brain trauma of every position in football...would OL be one of the worst? I don't have any data to support this, just from things I have heard....head trama to linemen would be less than linebackers, safety's, and RBs, because their collisions take place in a much closer, shorter space. Less velocity. Makes sense to me, not sure if it's 100% true or not. When's the last time you heard of a linemen on the injury report with a concussion? I know you can see damage down the road from hudresds of lesser hits, but to me the game has always been safer for linemen....its their lower bodies that get beat to hell. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by NC1974 on Dec 18, 2015 13:23:57 GMT -6
Spos21,
I would agree with you in terms of concussions, but some of the preliminary theories about CTE are suggesting it might be the accumulation of "sub-concussive" hits that are a problem. In that case, it could be that OL and DL are more at risk.
FCC
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Post by dubber on Dec 18, 2015 16:46:47 GMT -6
I think you would have far more concussions than with pads. I'd be very interested to see concussions from nfl as compared to pro rugby. good point.....
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Post by fballcoachg on Dec 18, 2015 17:14:38 GMT -6
I think you would have far more concussions than with pads. I'd be very interested to see concussions from nfl as compared to pro rugby. Why do you think that? Without a helmet you aren't lowering your head or leading with it...the bad thing about pads is you don't feel it. Hurling your body at someone else is unnatural, you should feel it.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 18, 2015 18:40:12 GMT -6
Two big differences between football and rugby: 1) No blocking - that takes away a lot of head banging. Instead of an OL having say 60 plays a game where they are banging heads on almost everyone of those, a guy might find himself in 20-30 (that's a guess on my part) rucks where they might be banging heads 2) For the most part, rugby is not a game of inches where driving the ball carrier backward is so essential (the one exception to that would be if the ball carrier was right on the try line (goal line). There's about 100 rucks, 45 mauls, and 10 scrims in a game, as well as 20 lineouts, so around 165 total instances with lots of bodies colliding, plus 210 tackles and 70 missed tackles. A tight five player would look to be involved in the majority of that 165 number. 8-man picks are akin to FB dives, and probably happen about as often as a runner barrels headlong into contact.
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Post by NC1974 on Dec 18, 2015 19:29:24 GMT -6
Two big differences between football and rugby: 1) No blocking - that takes away a lot of head banging. Instead of an OL having say 60 plays a game where they are banging heads on almost everyone of those, a guy might find himself in 20-30 (that's a guess on my part) rucks where they might be banging heads 2) For the most part, rugby is not a game of inches where driving the ball carrier backward is so essential (the one exception to that would be if the ball carrier was right on the try line (goal line). There's about 100 rucks, 45 mauls, and 10 scrims in a game, as well as 20 lineouts, so around 165 total instances with lots of bodies colliding, plus 210 tackles and 70 missed tackles. A tight five player would look to be involved in the majority of that 165 number. 8-man picks are akin to FB dives, and probably happen about as often as a runner barrels headlong into contact. Without totally hijacking the thread: -there is minimal head contact in a lineout compared to OL/DL on play from scrimmage -the ONLY head contact(collision) in a scrum would occur to the front row, the rest are quite protected (although they are prone to skin abrasions, cauliflower ear, etc). And two well coached front rows would have even less contact to the head, especially now with the latest laws that significantly curtail the impact upon engagement. -This is also true of an 8 man pick since 8 man picks occur while the pack are still engaged in the scrum. -A tight five player would more likely look to be in about half of the rucks and mauls in a match, unless they are very poorly coached. I admit to being too lazy right now to do the research but would would bet the money in my pocket (which isn't much ) that an OL or DL has a significant amount more blows to the head in an average football game than a tight five player does in a rugby match.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 18, 2015 20:31:39 GMT -6
8-man picks from rucks are significantly more violent than from scrums. There would be way less head contact, since nobody in rugby teaches using the forehead as a primary point of contact.
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Post by NC1974 on Dec 18, 2015 21:34:59 GMT -6
Yeah, I guess at the end of the day that it comes back to the fact that a lot of the techniques we now teach in football take advantage of the fact that we can regularly make contact with our heads without doing any obvious damage.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 19, 2015 14:59:34 GMT -6
"Obvious."
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Post by 33coach on Dec 19, 2015 23:13:06 GMT -6
Yeah, I guess at the end of the day that it comes back to the fact that a lot of the techniques we now teach in football take advantage of the fact that we can regularly make contact with our heads without doing any obvious damage. yep, its time to change that.
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Post by olinedude on Dec 22, 2015 19:06:52 GMT -6
What I was alluding to in my comment about comparing rugby to football was aimed more at tackling and running with the football.
I think we're seeing less and less outright contact with the head, even in the trenches. DL is more "shoot your hands, and shed the block" while OL is more about hand placement and steps etc. If you talk to college OL coaches, they are far more concerned with getting huge lineman and focusing on the hips and hands and not the facemask.
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