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Post by s73 on Nov 23, 2015 15:17:23 GMT -6
Any insight as to why coach? Little kids are too small, slow, and weak to hurt each other. I understand that. but he mentioned 11 year olds in his previous post having no injuries and now they do along with 12 year olds. I was just curious why the spike in that age group.
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 23, 2015 15:37:27 GMT -6
My son won't play organized tackle football until 7th grade at the earliest if he so chooses. He loves the game already and wants to always play but pickup and other sports (if he wants) will fill his time. He will be on the sideline with me as a ball boy/water boy if I have a coaching gig and that should keep him chomping at the bit. why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. For me it would be that I don't know the coaches' ability to correctly/safely teach the violent fundamentals. We have a boy that probably is done for life after getting 2 concussions in a single game (he's kind of an idiot) and part of his problem was that he would tackle/hit with his head ALL THE TIME because that's how he learned in Pop Warner.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 23, 2015 15:43:58 GMT -6
why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. For me it would be that I don't know the coaches' ability to correctly/safely teach the violent fundamentals. We have a boy that probably is done for life after getting 2 concussions in a single game (he's kind of an idiot) and part of his problem was that he would tackle/hit with his head ALL THE TIME because that's how he learned in Pop Warner. That's a really tough issue. I hate to see leagues who put these people in the position of "coach" and let them just teach...whatever unsafe madden style of football they want. Ive worked hard with our youth league to STOP that nonsense, and actually vet coaches - using the same process one of our local HS's use to hire new coaches. does it take extra time? sure! but it also means that in a league of 120 players. we have had 0 head injuries in the last 2 years and 0 injuries due to practice - and we are producing quality football players.
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Post by canesfan on Nov 23, 2015 16:17:19 GMT -6
I have a son on the way. If he's able and willing he's going to play whenever he can. Can't imagine him starting as late as some are suggesting.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 23, 2015 16:20:31 GMT -6
My son won't play organized tackle football until 7th grade at the earliest if he so chooses. He loves the game already and wants to always play but pickup and other sports (if he wants) will fill his time. He will be on the sideline with me as a ball boy/water boy if I have a coaching gig and that should keep him chomping at the bit. why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. A lot of reasons... one, I don't think youth players are that far advanced than the kid that starts in middle school. I sometimes think there is an over valuation of the positive impacts of youth football, a lot of times that reach block is only as effective as how fast your fastest player can get to the edge. I've had as much success w kids that didn't play youth ball as I've had with those that have and would argue that it's harder to deprogram bad youth coaching than it is to start from scratch. two, it is hard enough to fill a high school and middle school staff w quality coaches, I don't believe that there is an overwhelming abundance of quality coaches and have seen more than enough youth coaches w priorities that don't mirror what I believe youth sports to be no, I'm not afraid of injury. Yes, im afraid of burnout or the negative impact of a bad youth coach...I realize there are bad high school coaches but there is far more vetting. Additionally you have "all star" youth football teams that further push kids away from the sport as they are unnecessary and are typically picked based on name and friendship but that's another story for another day. lastly, the most successful small schools in this state don't have youth football in their communities yet they consistently compete for and win state titles and have abnormally large numbers of the student body involved in football. While this is a small sliver/study group I think it's an interesting counterpoint to the "youth football sets the tone and anyone not involved will be too far gone." I just don't buy it and think that the catch up time isn't that drastic and is quantumly reversed if you have to reverse bad coaching.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 23, 2015 16:29:43 GMT -6
At the end of the day I believe the possible positives are outweighed by the possible negatives at an age younger than 7th grade (6th, whatever middle school may be).
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Post by 33coach on Nov 23, 2015 16:31:47 GMT -6
why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. A lot of reasons... one, I don't think youth players are that far advanced than the kid that starts in middle school. I sometimes think there is an over valuation of the positive impacts of youth football, a lot of times that reach block is only as effective as how fast your fastest player can get to the edge. I've had as much success w kids that didn't play youth ball as I've had with those that have and would argue that it's harder to deprogram bad youth coaching than it is to start from scratch. two, it is hard enough to fill a high school and middle school staff w quality coaches, I don't believe that there is an overwhelming abundance of quality coaches and have seen more than enough youth coaches w priorities that don't mirror what I believe youth sports to be no, I'm not afraid of injury. Yes, im afraid of burnout or the negative impact of a bad youth coach...I realize there are bad high school coaches but there is far more vetting. Additionally you have "all star" youth football teams that further push kids away from the sport as they are unnecessary and are typically picked based on name and friendship but that's another story for another day. lastly, the most successful small schools in this state don't have youth football in their communities yet they consistently compete for and win state titles and have abnormally large numbers of the student body involved in football. While this is a small sliver/study group I think it's an interesting counterpoint to the "youth football sets the tone and anyone not involved will be too far gone." I just don't buy it and think that the catch up time isn't that drastic and is quantumly reversed if you have to reverse bad coaching. there is alot of truth in your post coach, the only thing i can argue is the first point - Being a MS school coach, there is MILES of difference between the 3 year youth football player, and the first year player, and that first year player is going to find it hard to find a spot on a team of youth football players.... now, ill say it again, i am in an area where youth football coaches are vetted the same way HS coaches are, we dont mess around with "daddy coaches", we go as far as saying first year head coaches dont really exist here... you are an assistant for awhile before you are a head coach. but that took years of change and fighting to get rid of the type of guys that cause the problems your talking about
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Post by ksmitty79 on Nov 23, 2015 16:35:57 GMT -6
I was to big for Pop Warner so I had no choice but to wait until I was in the 7th grade. Coaching in a County that does not have Middle School Ball I will tell you this, Kids that have played organized football is light years ahead of those kids that have never played. I will say this. Tackle football at a young age is pretty much pointless.. Very little fundamentals taught (In my area at least)
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Post by wingtol on Nov 23, 2015 17:33:25 GMT -6
why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. A lot of reasons... one, I don't think youth players are that far advanced than the kid that starts in middle school. I sometimes think there is an over valuation of the positive impacts of youth football, a lot of times that reach block is only as effective as how fast your fastest player can get to the edge. I've had as much success w kids that didn't play youth ball as I've had with those that have and would argue that it's harder to deprogram bad youth coaching than it is to start from scratch. two, it is hard enough to fill a high school and middle school staff w quality coaches, I don't believe that there is an overwhelming abundance of quality coaches and have seen more than enough youth coaches w priorities that don't mirror what I believe youth sports to be no, I'm not afraid of injury. Yes, im afraid of burnout or the negative impact of a bad youth coach...I realize there are bad high school coaches but there is far more vetting. Additionally you have "all star" youth football teams that further push kids away from the sport as they are unnecessary and are typically picked based on name and friendship but that's another story for another day. lastly, the most successful small schools in this state don't have youth football in their communities yet they consistently compete for and win state titles and have abnormally large numbers of the student body involved in football. While this is a small sliver/study group I think it's an interesting counterpoint to the "youth football sets the tone and anyone not involved will be too far gone." I just don't buy it and think that the catch up time isn't that drastic and is quantumly reversed if you have to reverse bad coaching. And Friday Night Tykes. Nuff said.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 23, 2015 18:07:31 GMT -6
A lot of reasons... one, I don't think youth players are that far advanced than the kid that starts in middle school. I sometimes think there is an over valuation of the positive impacts of youth football, a lot of times that reach block is only as effective as how fast your fastest player can get to the edge. I've had as much success w kids that didn't play youth ball as I've had with those that have and would argue that it's harder to deprogram bad youth coaching than it is to start from scratch. two, it is hard enough to fill a high school and middle school staff w quality coaches, I don't believe that there is an overwhelming abundance of quality coaches and have seen more than enough youth coaches w priorities that don't mirror what I believe youth sports to be no, I'm not afraid of injury. Yes, im afraid of burnout or the negative impact of a bad youth coach...I realize there are bad high school coaches but there is far more vetting. Additionally you have "all star" youth football teams that further push kids away from the sport as they are unnecessary and are typically picked based on name and friendship but that's another story for another day. lastly, the most successful small schools in this state don't have youth football in their communities yet they consistently compete for and win state titles and have abnormally large numbers of the student body involved in football. While this is a small sliver/study group I think it's an interesting counterpoint to the "youth football sets the tone and anyone not involved will be too far gone." I just don't buy it and think that the catch up time isn't that drastic and is quantumly reversed if you have to reverse bad coaching. And Friday Night Tykes. Nuff said. that show has done more damage to the sport of football then concussions ever could....
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 23, 2015 18:55:28 GMT -6
For those of you saying wait until the kid is older, do you say the same for basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball?
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Post by fantom on Nov 23, 2015 20:00:18 GMT -6
Forgive me if this if this thread is somewhere else. I am a hs varsity head coach. I am wanting to know at what age did your son(s) start playing organized football? Like you I have had players that started playing football anywhere from kindergarten to sr year. I have a 6 year old who is starting to ask about playing. If it was all up to me I would prefer him to wait to play until 6th grade middle school or even 5th grade. I had a kid play for me that before middle school had played one season in 2nd grade. He had some idiot coaches that basically did animal drills all practice and the kid became gun shy. When he came back out later for football he was very passive and we could never get him to be physical. I dont want that to happen to my son. Basically, I would like to read when other varsity coaches kids started playing. My son never played youth football and I never cared. The only youth sports that he played was Little League baseball and that was because there are no backyard baseball games anymore. I don't believe in organized youth sports. I believe in CalvinBall, kids figuring it out on their own.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 23, 2015 20:01:35 GMT -6
For those of you saying wait until the kid is older, do you say the same for basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball? No but I don't think the sports are the same. For one, I would let my kid play flag but not tackle, I just don't see the advantage to a 5 year old running around in a helmet, don't think they are physically mature enough and the reasons I mentioned above. two, call me a commie in basketball everyone touches the ball in baseball everyone bats, my kid won't get turned off by being a two striper getting yelled at to "block somebody" for a few years, I want him to enjoy football as its already a delayed satisfaction sport for most. lastly, and not wholly related, I'm not going to let my son or daughters year round a sport. Not what you were asking but I think kids need to play multiple sports, I'll put them in leagues if they want but I'd be just as pleased if as little ones they played pick up.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 23, 2015 20:12:32 GMT -6
A lot of reasons... one, I don't think youth players are that far advanced than the kid that starts in middle school. I sometimes think there is an over valuation of the positive impacts of youth football, a lot of times that reach block is only as effective as how fast your fastest player can get to the edge. I've had as much success w kids that didn't play youth ball as I've had with those that have and would argue that it's harder to deprogram bad youth coaching than it is to start from scratch. two, it is hard enough to fill a high school and middle school staff w quality coaches, I don't believe that there is an overwhelming abundance of quality coaches and have seen more than enough youth coaches w priorities that don't mirror what I believe youth sports to be no, I'm not afraid of injury. Yes, im afraid of burnout or the negative impact of a bad youth coach...I realize there are bad high school coaches but there is far more vetting. Additionally you have "all star" youth football teams that further push kids away from the sport as they are unnecessary and are typically picked based on name and friendship but that's another story for another day. lastly, the most successful small schools in this state don't have youth football in their communities yet they consistently compete for and win state titles and have abnormally large numbers of the student body involved in football. While this is a small sliver/study group I think it's an interesting counterpoint to the "youth football sets the tone and anyone not involved will be too far gone." I just don't buy it and think that the catch up time isn't that drastic and is quantumly reversed if you have to reverse bad coaching. there is alot of truth in your post coach, the only thing i can argue is the first point - Being a MS school coach, there is MILES of difference between the 3 year youth football player, and the first year player, and that first year player is going to find it hard to find a spot on a team of youth football players.... now, ill say it again, i am in an area where youth football coaches are vetted the same way HS coaches are, we dont mess around with "daddy coaches", we go as far as saying first year head coaches dont really exist here... you are an assistant for awhile before you are a head coach. but that took years of change and fighting to get rid of the type of guys that cause the problems your talking aboutWe will have to disagree on that point. I've always taught every freshman as if they never played the game before, some start ahead of others but with coaching I have seen that gap close considerably. I didn't play until 9th grade and was fine, played w a mix of youth middle school and high school first timers at a good program. We had starters on varsity who started playing in middle school (and two that had only started playing in high school) playing over kids that had played youth throughout. The place I left flat out dominated and there was no youth ball at all, kids played pickup and CYO soccer, basketball, and baseball until middle school at which time they played football and basketball for the ms and baseball for their legion team. I genuinely believe that gap is nowhere near as wide over the course of a training camp and preseason as people think it is...I do think the gap gets wider in high school with physical maturity and sport awareness as your body and mind develop. unfortunatelu my experience w youth ball of all sports but for some reason especially football (maybe bc that's what I pay the most attention to) is that your area is the anomaly.
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Post by coachdlo on Nov 23, 2015 20:13:45 GMT -6
From where I'm from.. 1st/2nd grade 3rd/4th grade flag football league OR tackle league 5th/6th tackle league 7th school team / 8th school team / 9th school team / JV/HS
I like this a lot. let kids/parents choose as they may until 5th/6th grade and then its tackle
Interesting to see the the kids that choose Flag football until 5th grade almost ALWAYS end up being the studs come HS football.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 23, 2015 20:46:55 GMT -6
My son played flag when he was 9 and insisted on playing tackle when he was 10, so I agreed. My HC has an 11 year old son who was playing his first year also, so we signed up to coach the team.
I would have wanted him to start a little later, but my biggest concern was about the quality of coaching he was going to get and learning dangerous fundamentals. Our HS HC is the best in our entire area and it isn't close, and the youth league couldn't wait to make him the HC of the youth team. We made sure that our focus was on fundamentals and teaching how to hit and tackle, and at the end of the day I don't have any issues with him starting at the age he did.
There was a huge difference between the kids who had played before and the first year players in terms of understanding the basic rules and that sort of thing, but they all needed to be taught how to hit properly and how to tackle.
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 23, 2015 22:04:56 GMT -6
Forgive me if this if this thread is somewhere else. I am a hs varsity head coach. I am wanting to know at what age did your son(s) start playing organized football? Like you I have had players that started playing football anywhere from kindergarten to sr year. I have a 6 year old who is starting to ask about playing. If it was all up to me I would prefer him to wait to play until 6th grade middle school or even 5th grade. I had a kid play for me that before middle school had played one season in 2nd grade. He had some idiot coaches that basically did animal drills all practice and the kid became gun shy. When he came back out later for football he was very passive and we could never get him to be physical. I dont want that to happen to my son. Basically, I would like to read when other varsity coaches kids started playing. Before we get to far down the road and this turns into a thread against youth coaches, what is your sticking point as far as your son playing? Is it injury, concussion, bad coaching? Just what is making you doubt the decision to let him play at a young age?
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 24, 2015 8:41:27 GMT -6
I played baseball only from 4-7, football and baseball at 8-9, and hockey, football and wrassled 10-14, something had to give, it was my body. In HS I did football only but I'm 30 going on 70 now.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 24, 2015 9:03:03 GMT -6
I would argue one of the reasons I am relatively healthy is that by the time we were big enough to do serious harm, I had already learned how to take a hit and how to avoid major contact if possible while playing little leauge. There is no substitute for experience...
If you never get hit in the face during a fight in elementary school and wait until you are 13, 14, 15, to have your first fight, I don't care what you have been doing to "prepare", getting hit in the face sucks @ss and you ain't gonna be able to handle it the first few times thru.
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 24, 2015 9:07:22 GMT -6
I guess I would caution against taking an absolute position that doesn't take your kid and/or your local situation into account. And by local situation, I mean both the youth program and the HS program.
There are many bad youth programs and coaches out there, 100% agreed. But I can only speak to what I see, and in my area (Boston suburbs), most youth football coaching isn't bad, some is very good.
For the most part, we have access to a larger pool of coaching candidates than you. First, we have access to the same guys you do - for example our Jr. Midget (7th and lighter 8th graders) HC is a long time HS AC. Then factor in our schedule allows us to tap into working professionals who don't have the availability to coach in a school-based program. We also don't need to have the in-depth knowledge around scheme and technique that you need at the the HS level. To coach 10-11 year old kids, I just need to know how to teach basic blocking and tackling fundamentals, and enough scheme to keep things interesting. That can allow us to find people who are very good at coaching but are not available to the HS's.
I will leave the analysis of the local HS situation up to you guys, you should be a good position to figure that out. I've already described our town's situation; here it would NOT be a good idea to have your kid start playing in 9th grade.
Now, having your kid play for the first time at 7th or 8th grade? In our org, from a pure skill development standpoint even one year is probably enough to close the gap at least to where they don't get lost when they hit the HS. And we do see a bunch of first time bigs hitting our program in 6th-8th grade because our oldest age team is unlimited weight. So if your kid is really big, he won't be alone as a newbie. But if he's not a big, he is going to have a tough time unless he's a really good athlete and can take some immediate adversity. As I mentioned, I am very glad we didn't wait to have my son start playing until 12-13 years old. He would have gotten demolished, and there's a good chance he would not have continued to play.
I just think it's hard to say anything other than it depends. I chimed in here because I have had a front row seat on this issue for the past 12 years, and I don't think my experience is all that unique. I also started as a major skeptic - I didn't want my kid playing that young, I thought the coaches were too intense and needed to get a life, etc. and so forth. I now have a very different picture from being on the inside...
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Post by coachirish on Nov 24, 2015 11:28:45 GMT -6
Forgive me if this if this thread is somewhere else. I am a hs varsity head coach. I am wanting to know at what age did your son(s) start playing organized football? Like you I have had players that started playing football anywhere from kindergarten to sr year. I have a 6 year old who is starting to ask about playing. If it was all up to me I would prefer him to wait to play until 6th grade middle school or even 5th grade. I had a kid play for me that before middle school had played one season in 2nd grade. He had some idiot coaches that basically did animal drills all practice and the kid became gun shy. When he came back out later for football he was very passive and we could never get him to be physical. I dont want that to happen to my son. Basically, I would like to read when other varsity coaches kids started playing. Before we get to far down the road and this turns into a thread against youth coaches, what is your sticking point as far as your son playing? Is it injury, concussion, bad coaching? Just what is making you doubt the decision to let him play at a young age? I do not want my son to go out there next season and have a terrible experience and get turned off to football. My area is not blessed with great or even decent youth coaches like some of you. As bad as he wants to play I am debating if it is even worth it for him to play as a 2nd grader next year.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 24, 2015 11:34:50 GMT -6
Youth coaching is just like high school coaching... some are good, some are bad. At least at the high school level, the HC has to decide who his 'paid' assistants are, so you generally have 4 or 5 that are decent on a staff. I know some little leagues around here struggle to find coaches, so they call and badger dads until one agrees to be the coach. You get a lot of "Madden" or "Raider" type playcalls with some little league teams as opposed to teaching a scheme and some technique. I don't care if it's wingT, doublewing, pro, spread, or whatever, but if the coach is going to actually teach a scheme and teach the kids WHY they are doing what he is asking them to do, then they are going to be MILES ahead of kids who play and don't get that experience. If the kid plays and learns a lot of bad habits and it is just a cluster, when he does get a good coach, he will have to coach the bad stuff out before he can put the good stuff in.
Not a shot at little league guys at all, unless they fit into the category I described above. A good little league coach is a high school coaches best friend... kids coming in already knowing what a reach block, down block, angle tackle, etc... makes my life SO much easier when they get here. Just have to tweak things a little bit to try an improve the kid rather than teach him from scratch.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 24, 2015 11:36:30 GMT -6
Before we get to far down the road and this turns into a thread against youth coaches, what is your sticking point as far as your son playing? Is it injury, concussion, bad coaching? Just what is making you doubt the decision to let him play at a young age? I do not want my son to go out there next season and have a terrible experience and get turned off to football. My area is not blessed with great or even decent youth coaches like some of you. As bad as he wants to play I am debating if it is even worth it for him to play as a 2nd grader next year. is that something that you could help change? when I helped rebuild the youth program here (after leaving the HS i was coaching at), the first thing i did was find the GOOD coaches. maybe a guy who applied for the freshman HC job and didnt get it?, maybe some former players who arnt doing anything that time of year?. maybe the guy who runs the local gym/training facility who is great with kids? I feel like, instead of saying "our youth program is bad" - maybe the conversation should be "how can i make it as good as it should be". you dont have to be a football guru to be a great coach. the football part can be learned - that was the biggest hurdle i personally had to get over, I had a lot of guys who could coach, but i initially didnt even ask them because they were basketball, and baseball coaches. - if i had to do it over again, i would have gotten those guys in sooner.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 24, 2015 12:05:32 GMT -6
I do not want my son to go out there next season and have a terrible experience and get turned off to football. My area is not blessed with great or even decent youth coaches like some of you. As bad as he wants to play I am debating if it is even worth it for him to play as a 2nd grader next year. Again, I ask...do you / would you say the same about soccer, basketball, baseball, volleyball, swimming, diving, tennis, etc? Is it just the collision aspect that has so many football coaches here saying "not my kid"
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 24, 2015 12:27:21 GMT -6
I think most kids have the experience that their parent allows. Most kids don't understand that they're not having fun, LOL. The parent cringes, but the kid doesn't know any better. It's been my experience that the parents ultimately ruin it for the kids by injecting their own adult perceptions into the equation.
My kid had some horrific coaching in different sports along the way, and he didn't realize it, never impacted his enjoyment of playing. At least not until one season when I made the mistake of ripping his coach to my wife in front of him. Then all the sudden he didn't want to go to practice, he complained about the coach, etc. And I knew it wasn't real, because he didn't know WTF he was even complaining about, he was just taking my lead.
Heck, I had pretty bad coaches in pretty much every sport in HS, and I never realized it at the time. I just played, and that was that. Sure, in hindsight I would have perhaps been better off with better coaches, but at the time I was having fun.
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dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by dbeck84 on Nov 24, 2015 14:15:36 GMT -6
I have a long time before I need to worry about this, my son isn't 1 yet, but I think back to my own experiences. My parents didn't allow me to play organized football until my freshman year of high school. There were some junior leagues in the area, but nothing directly tied to our high school program. My freshman year I was slightly behind others in my class, and by sophomore year I was one of the better players in my class.
At the time, of course, I hated not being able to play, but now I'm glad my parents held me out. Football was always on a pedestal to me and I couldn't wait until I was finally able to play. I think this drove me to work harder as I had been looking forward to it for so long. I also went on to play college ball. I know many players who were far better than me who didn't go on to college because they had been playing since they were 8 years old and were done with the game. I guess I would rather error on the side of leaving my son wanting more rather than giving him too much.
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Post by gdoggwr on Nov 24, 2015 14:26:50 GMT -6
My son won't play organized tackle football until 7th grade at the earliest if he so chooses. He loves the game already and wants to always play but pickup and other sports (if he wants) will fill his time. He will be on the sideline with me as a ball boy/water boy if I have a coaching gig and that should keep him chomping at the bit. why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. so if a kid isn't already a good football player in 7th grade he doesn't get coached up and will never get to play?!?? No wonder that kid hates football.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 24, 2015 14:30:35 GMT -6
why is that? is your youth league bad? are you afraid of injury? im not trying to pick on you, i actually want to know. as a MS coach i actually combat this kind of behavior. the kid who already knows how to block and tackle, is probably going to play a lot more then the one who doesn't - its the reality of the game. football isnt like other sports, the skills dont translate that well to normal kid life...sure running throwing etc.... but when was the last time you saw a kid reach block something or someone on the school yard? also, i get the parents who say "not till HS"..which is even funnier, because those are the kids who NEVER get playing time and end up hating football (from my experience) - because while they were learning what a 3 point stance is in Varsity football, the other kids are perfecting theirs.. so if a kid isn't already a good football player in 7th grade he doesn't get coached up and will never get to play?!?? No wonder that kid hates football. thats not really what i said... kids know when they are behind the curve. ill give you an example: I started playing baseball in the 8th grade, everyone on the team had been playing since Teeball. so i was immediately the worst player on the team just by the fact that it was the first time i had held a bat. i got coached up, and i became a decent fielder and base runner...but i was still behind everyone else. it wasnt a great experience, and i didnt continue.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Nov 30, 2015 21:22:48 GMT -6
My son is 3rd grade (8) and played tackle this season. I am on the youth football board and they had previously had flag for 3/4th grade. In the three years prior to making 3/4 grade tackle the age group that had the most injuries in practice or games was...you guessed it 3/4 grade flag. Bumping heads, knee to the head, knee injuries due to getting tackled when the other team couldn't get the flag. This season: 3/4 grade- 3 injuries reported..broken wrist, neck injury (dad coach gave the kid a "cooler" helmet than the one issued and it didn't fit, and a broken finger. 5/6 grade- none reported 7/8 grade- broken collar bone (non-contact, stepped on the tee on a kick return and fell), 4 concussions all kids went through the schools procedures and returned to play with no further issues (except them complaining that they just said they had a head ache and that they didn't even get hit..that hard) 9-12- a Broken collar bone, a broken ankle, an ACL/MCL, a broken scapula, and 1 concussion. Total number of kids involved: 85 3/4 grader, 82 5/6 graders, 105 7/8 graders and 91 9/12 graders.
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Post by tiger46 on Dec 1, 2015 5:09:12 GMT -6
This type of thread crops up every so often- so much so that sometimes I think they should have their own section. At least this thread doesn't seem to be as hostile and divisive between HS coaches and Youth coaches as some of the other threads were.
I think this thread is a little off track, though. The question is when do you, as a parent, let yourchild play football? I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to that question. It's your child. You know best when you'd feel comfortable about them putting on the pads for the first time.
As to the positive and/or negative effects that youth football has on HS players and programs, I can only speak as a youth coach. And, I say that I could care less; which is not to say that I don't care, at all. But, a former player's on-field success rate in HS football is not the reason why I started coaching youth football. I can not judge my worth as a youth coach by how successful my players go on to be at the next levels.
I coach what a lot of people would deem as 'disadvantaged' youth. My goals are to instill pride in themselves, self worth, a sense of purpose, academic achievement and responsibility, good work ethics, etc... Youth football just happens to be the platform that I choose to try to teach these qualities. It could just as easily have been some other activity. i.e... My brother volunteers as a youth basketball coach. My ex-wife's brother is a professional racehorse trainer. Both of whom work with kids in their respective capacities and areas of interest. I also have other areas of interest besides youth football. I've often said that I'd rather my players get an 'A' in the classroom than a 'TD' on the football field.
In the 10yrs that I've coached youth football, I've had my players run the full gamut at the next levels- pluggers, bench huggers, burn-outs, stand outs, duds, studs and about anything else a coach could imagine. So what? What does that really say about our program as a youth organization or, me as a coach?
There's a middling 1A HS football program. One of my players attends the school. He played in my youth program from 8yrs old to 12yrs old. He breaks all school records and goes on to lead the team to a championship. That player is monumental part of the reason why the 1A HC is offered a better paying dream job at a powerhouse 6A school. The player goes on to pi$$ away a college scholarship and gets arrested for robbing a liquor store.
Another one of my players joins a HS program. He played in my youth program from 8yrs old to 12yrs old. For whatever reasons, he becomes not much more than a steak-eater. But, he earns an academic scholarship to an Ivy League school.
A third player 'burns out' and hangs up his football cleats for baseball cleats. He played in my youth program from 8yrs old to 12yrs old. He could have been a serious asset to the football program. He isn't nearly as much of a stud in baseball as he was in football. But, he discovers that he really loves baseball. He becomes a student of the game, never gives his baseball coaches a problem, always gives his coaches 100% effort and is one of the players that can be pointed to as to why the baseball program, as a whole, has success.
I made all of that stuff up. But, in which scenario(s) did I achieve success as a youth coach? In which one(s) did I fail as those players' youth coach? There are just way more important things for a youth coach to focus on than how his players go on to perform at the HS level.
BTW, I've never achieved a 100% success rate at any of my goals that I can think of as a youth coach. Well, in my first season as a youth football coach, we lost 100% of our games. But, that definitely wasn't one of my goals. So, I damned sure don't have all the answers.
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