|
Post by airman on Jul 27, 2007 13:29:12 GMT -6
Well it ain't weather. I'm in Alabama and we don't pick up a football until the middle of May. Surely y'all are out from under three feet of snow come May. you have nice weather though through out your season. it is not uncommon to have snow for a state championship games in wisconsin. it used to not be this way but when we watered down our playoff system, we had to make things go later.
|
|
|
Post by lukethadrifter on Jul 28, 2007 19:56:17 GMT -6
Texas takes football very, very seriously. The THSCA is the largest high school coaches association in the nation. There are more D1 signees from Texas than any other state almost every single year. Football is easily the most important sport and money-maker for most Texas high schools. Luke
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 28, 2007 20:45:39 GMT -6
luke what do you think the percentage of high school head football coaches in texas are also the AD
?
i would put it at over 95%
and any school that didn't have the hfc as the ad would be a magnet for slappys more than likely
of course there are exceptions
but i know i would not want to work for or accept an hfc job that was not ad
unless it was a straight hfc job with a former hfc as ad
and he had better be someone i get along with
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Jul 28, 2007 21:15:39 GMT -6
95% is rather large when you consider all the 5A school's that have a district wide AD. Most of the 5A schools have a separate AD than the HFC, don't know the exact number but feel VERY confident more do have separate AD than those that don't.
now, the HFC probably holds the title (and duties) of Athletice Coordinator for that high school
|
|
|
Post by gulfcoastoffense on Jul 28, 2007 22:07:39 GMT -6
Russellville's facilities were built with as a park and rec project, so I have heard. Nice place though! What schools in the south allow the OC just to coach? All the schools I have visited in North Alabama this past year looking for a job asked me what I was certified to teach before they even considered talking football.
|
|
|
Post by sls on Jul 28, 2007 22:16:43 GMT -6
Well it ain't weather. I'm in Alabama and we don't pick up a football until the middle of May. We have just about as long to get ready to play as y'all do. Surely y'all are out from under three feet of snow come May. Not only that, but most of y'all don't have to deal with baseball. The great high school baseball programs are in the South, Texas, and California along with some sprinkled in the midwest. Also, I do see the fact that poor people want it more. I grew up less than wealthy (sarcasm) and worked my butt off. Not because I wanted to get out of my hometown or out of poverty but because I wanted to win and be best I could be. Not only that, but if you take a look at the poor schools and rich schools in Alabama for instance. Trying to be nice here, but the poor schools don't have a chance. Hoover, Mtn. Brook, Vestavia, Prattville, Daphne, they aren't having issues with money. That's just 6A. The top northern 5A program of the last few years has a million dollar fieldhouse. And I'm not being hyperbolic there. See here: www.goldentigers.net/football/facility%20photos.htmlI think the main factor in the South being better at football is just the following. It means more to more of us. I'm not saying that it means more to y'all but there are just more of us that follow the game. See Alabama's spring game. If you pick up a football in the middleof may, that is at least 2 weeks before the schools in the north with open summer rules and 2.5 months before the states with closed summer rules. Add these 2 weeks with the fact that AL plays its 1st games on 8/31 ( I think) and IN plays are first on 8/17, that is a month more of practice for every team. Your state finals are on 12/8, 2 weeks after ours in IN. Therefore your top teams have 6 more weeks of football throughout the year than IN. Yes, we are out from under the snow in May, but could be back under it by November. You have 3 more weeks of practice in what I assume is decent weather. Does this defend the weather argument?
|
|
herky
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
|
Post by herky on Jul 29, 2007 8:24:11 GMT -6
You raise a lot of interesting thoughts, Brophy.
In Texas, you cannot discount the athletic periods allotted to football and other sports. As a Yankee, I was floored by the amount of year round, during the normal school day time devoted to football. I think that model has huge advantages and disadvantages depending on one's educational perspective. But as a coach, who wouldn't love to see their athletes for 60-90 minutes during 4th period each day in addition to the time you can put in before and after school.
In my observations, there are many more single sport athletes in Texas. Coaches are less willing to 'share' athletes. I personally think that is unfortunate, but most times it is not to the detriment of football. In my last school however, that was the case.
The high school I attended in Iowa just won a state baseball championship yesterday. My dad felt certain that 100% of them were at minumum 3 sport participants, and most 4 sport participants. Is that a small school thing....a Midwest thing? I can think of only one kid from my high school currently playing DI-A. And in the the time since I graduated, there have been maybe 5 in DI-A / AA. Although one DII'er made the NFL. Most end up in the IIAC....the norm in Iowa.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 29, 2007 8:35:41 GMT -6
there are a lot more multi sport kids here than you think herky
|
|
herky
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
|
Post by herky on Jul 29, 2007 8:44:31 GMT -6
there are a lot more multi sport kids here than you think herky I don't consider football/track or football/powerlifting as a true multi sport athlete. Those just serve as extensions to football.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 29, 2007 8:50:51 GMT -6
all i can say is
talk to all the basketball coaches promising 5'8 kids that they will get scholarships because they are so good, if they only go straight basketball
|
|
|
Post by sls on Jul 29, 2007 13:03:29 GMT -6
In Texas, you cannot discount the athletic periods allotted to football and other sports. As a Yankee, I was floored by the amount of year round, during the normal school day time devoted to football. I think that model has huge advantages and disadvantages depending on one's educational perspective. But as a coach, who wouldn't love to see their athletes for 60-90 minutes during 4th period each day in addition to the time you can put in before and after school. Athletic Period is a huge difference!
|
|
|
Post by deaux68 on Jul 29, 2007 21:36:49 GMT -6
Yes, we are out from under the snow in May, but could be back under it by November. You have 3 more weeks of practice in what I assume is decent weather.
Does this defend the weather argument?
How many of your kids are currently playing summer baseball?
We also have three coaches dedicated to baseball from January to late May on a good year. Not to mention the 7 dates they can take in the summer.
I would estimate we have two extra weeks of work because of y'alls start in early August. I will stick by my guns that there are just MORE people that care about football down here. That translates into better football.
|
|
|
Post by sls on Jul 30, 2007 6:33:28 GMT -6
Yes, we are out from under the snow in May, but could be back under it by November. You have 3 more weeks of practice in what I assume is decent weather.
Does this defend the weather argument? How many of your kids are currently playing summer baseball? We also have three coaches dedicated to baseball from January to late May on a good year. Not to mention the 7 dates they can take in the summer. I would estimate we have two extra weeks of work because of y'alls start in early August. I will stick by my guns that there are just MORE people that care about football down here. That translates into better football. My DC is the head baseball coach and just took our team to the state finals which were on the 2nd saturday. Currently, we are out of baseball, we had about a 1/3 of the team involved up until the 2nd weekend of July. I agree 100% about the fact that people care more. There is no doubt that football is #1.
|
|
|
Post by dwhite1159 on Jul 30, 2007 9:10:01 GMT -6
Guys here are my two cents,
Race plays a very important role in this discussion. By the way, I am not a racist. If you look objectively at the skill position players in the NFL, they are almost all of African American decent. The south as a higher concentration of these African American players. Therefore, more NFL players come from the south.
These issues are largley generational. If you look at where the best players from the south come from objectively, they come from South Florida and the Gulf Coast region from Houston, TX to Pensacola, FL. These areas have historically and generationally been African American for hundreds of years (if you know what I mean).
If you mix great athletes with superior coaching, you will normally achieve great results. The college recruiters understand this that is why they spend most of their time down south finding these superior athletes.
I think they are several important variables (weather, fan support, facilities, etc.), but the most critical variable is athletes. The south is rich in athletes. Therfore, there is better played in the south.
D. White
|
|
|
Post by tiger46 on Jul 30, 2007 12:40:23 GMT -6
I would you think that NYC, Chicago, Detroit and D.C. alone would have enough black population between them to keep Northern universities' recruiters interested. And, if you're going to make it a racial comparison, it wouldn't be valid to compare Southern black athletes against Northern white athletes. You would have to compare Southern white athletes to Northern white athletes and Southern black athletes to Northern black athletes.
|
|
|
Post by airman on Jul 30, 2007 12:45:51 GMT -6
chicago, detriot, milwaukee roundball is king. all have large populations of black people. all are basketball cities when it comes to high school. football in milwaukee and chicago is not very good. the burbs are the places where football is good.
|
|
|
Post by dwhite1159 on Jul 30, 2007 13:05:26 GMT -6
I would you think that NYC, Chicago, Detroit and D.C. alone would have enough black population between them to keep Northern universities' recruiters interested. And, if you're going to make it a racial comparison, it wouldn't be valid to compare Southern black athletes against Northern white athletes. You would have to compare Southern white athletes to Northern white athletes and Southern black athletes to Northern black athletes. Tiger, I think you are making my point. Regardless of sport, the African American athlete is the critical variable. Statistics of African American athletes in the top levels of track, basketball, football, etc further prove the point. One example of a good northern basketball player turned great football player would be Antonio Gates. If those African American athletes in the northern urban areas decided to focus on football versus basketball the football would be different. Or if African American athletes all decided to play baseball versus football or basketball, then the Major Leagues would be filled with primarily African American. I am normally very politically correct, but the statistics on these issues are hard to ignore. D. White
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Aug 3, 2007 13:05:15 GMT -6
not sure if this has anything to do with north south but its still a reason as to why football might be better somewhere else. i can tell you the ONLY difference between new york city football athletes(maybe 15 D1A football players a year where HS's carry about 3000-4000 kids). and north new jersey football athletes(high schools carry alot less kids and have 2x or 3x as much D1 football players). Crappy academics and stupid regents test. in NYC its common to see the 3 or 4 best football players for each school not playing football because they failed a danm regents or failed a few classes. i find that in north jersey this is not a problem cause of better teachers and better coaches. this in turn means that those kids who are ineligible will get out of shape and give up on football, or move somewhere else where every football player passes enough classes to play, or they play basketball its VERY RARE to see a kid who is ineligible get eligible and play football again Big city public schools often have horrible facilities and worse coaching. Football holds a very low priority for administration and often union rules make it tough to find good coaches.
|
|
|
Post by coachjaz on Aug 3, 2007 18:08:45 GMT -6
Ill throw my hat into the ring too.
I think there are a few factors involved here.
Yes race does matter. In the north the majority of all African-American citizens live in the large cities (NY,Philly,Chicago,Detroit) as well as Milwaukee, Cleveland etc.
In many of these cities there are a few things working against football, among those are poor facilities, the importance of basketball and also the quality of coaching.
In the South there are more African-Americans and there are also more living outside large cities, in fact outside of maybe Atlanta, the deep south doesnt really have a LARGE city exclusing of course Texas and Florida.
I believe northern states also place a higher priority on academics, and in turn have better academics.
Weather does play a role also. Having lived in a very cold state and a very hot state, I admit the very hot state has more wide open offenses simply because we dont have to worry about weather. In the very cold state there are more Wing-T teams than I care to count.
|
|
|
Post by deaux68 on Aug 4, 2007 11:15:40 GMT -6
Outside of Memphis, Nashville (both bigger than ATL), and NoLa there aren't many huge cities in the South.
Also there's this stat (percentage being the amount of african-american population) with cities having 100,000 or more people:
Gary, Ind. 84.0% Detroit, Mich. 81.6 Birmingham, Ala. 73.5 Jackson, Miss. 70.6 New Orleans, La. 67.3% Baltimore, Md. 64.3 Atlanta, Ga. 61.4 Memphis, Tenn. 61.4 Washington, DC 60.0% Richmond, Va. 57.2
|
|
|
Post by coachjaz on Aug 4, 2007 12:51:20 GMT -6
Sorry I didnt include Tennesee either. I should have
|
|
|
Post by thakatalyst on Aug 8, 2007 18:44:21 GMT -6
There does not seem to be many West Coast representatives on this topic, so I will try to do that based on what I know. I currently coach in SW Washington, just north of Portland, but I grew up and played in San Diego County. From what I get from you guys, hs football is huge THROUGHOUT the South. Out here, there are small hotbeds for football:
California: the enormous Southern Section that consists of much of the area around LA (Mission Viejo, Mater Dei) LA is BIG on basketball, San Diego County, the Fresno area (the Clovis schools), and the Bay Area with Concord de la Salle Washington: the Seattle Area (Bellevue), Tri-Cities (Pasco) Oregon: despite the dominance of Jesuit HS in Portland, southern Oregon rules football in that state
The West Coast, in my personal opinion, is more known for its individual talent and one or two "dynasties" rather than hs football in general.
Also, someone mentioned the lack of smaller university teams...California is big on JUCO ball. If you can't play DI because of grades, you go play JUCO. A lot of those guys then transfer. San Francisco CC in NorCal, El Camino CC and Palomar JC in SoCal as examples. They always post who has moved on to DI ball.
|
|