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Post by simpson12 on Sept 13, 2015 11:12:54 GMT -6
This is my sons first year playing football; he is in the 5th grade. When the season started the coach discussed with all of the parents his policies, etc and mentioned there will be no "daddy ball." Well of coarse his son plays and with 4 games into the season it is very obvious "DB" is going on. My son as well as other kids have proven themselves and there has been praise given to me re my son from the coach staff. From the start it was obvious my son and another kid were going to be running backs, but the coaches son was in the mix also. Practices were going great and my son had the plays down pat. One day we arrived to practice early and the coach came up to me and told me he was going to change some things around and for me not to be alarmed. He told me he was going to move my some to the offensive line position because his son could not block as well as my son. I was dumb founded but did not say anything. I watched practice and was honestly upset. After practice and we were in the car my son was upset and felt he must have done something wrong, which I assured him he did not. I told him it is good to learn other positions, etc. I did not tell him my thoughts. They did run my son in the first game and he ran for 46 yards for a TD. Since that first game he has not played the RB position again and they have had 4 games. It is like they are keeping him from making is son look bad. It is so obvious the other coaches and parents have talked to me about it. I have kept my mouth shut and have tried to be positive, but I feel its time to have a heart to heart with the coach. If the coaches son was a stand out player I may feel a little different but the difference between my son and his son is "black and white." I know I should not be upset because my son is playing the whole game, but not the position he should be playing. It is like the coach made a trade off to please us by letting him play the whole game. Any advice would be great.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 13, 2015 11:39:43 GMT -6
Your son is in 5th grade. Who cares? And I mean that..he is playing football. Who cares if it is from an OL spot, a DE spot, a RB spot, a DB spot? Is he doing well at his OL spot? That is all that matters. One of the beauties of youth football over other sports is that each player has an opportunity to participate meaningfully on almost every single play. It isn't like coach pitch baseball where they can put a weaker player at right field (kids rarely hit to right) or catcher (and cover plays at the plate with 1st or pitcher) The only valid complaint I can imagine would be if someone was put at a WR position and just told to run sprints down the field (I believe John Reed suggests this on some occasions).
Trust me, if you are going to be involved in youth sports, using the above mindset will save you from a lot of angst.
Your kid might be one of the more dominant OLs in the league. Thats awesome.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2015 13:04:59 GMT -6
Your son is in 5th grade. Who cares? And I mean that..he is playing football. Who cares if it is from an OL spot, a DE spot, a RB spot, a DB spot? Is he doing well at his OL spot? That is all that matters. One of the beauties of youth football over other sports is that each player has an opportunity to participate meaningfully on almost every single play. It isn't like coach pitch baseball where they can put a weaker player at right field (kids rarely hit to right) or catcher (and cover plays at the plate with 1st or pitcher) The only valid complaint I can imagine would be if someone was put at a WR position and just told to run sprints down the field (I believe John Reed suggests this on some occasions). Trust me, if you are going to be involved in youth sports, using the above mindset will save you from a lot of angst. Your kid might be one of the more dominant OLs in the league. Thats awesome. While I agree with the gist of Coach D's post, I do understand the OP's frustration. We went through the same thing last year. Our boy was on the 7th grade team and clearly was the best fullback on the team (he was actually the best running back, period, but whatever). Anyway, the 7th grade coaches played him at center and DE. The team was pretty tough defensively but the offense was nonexistent. While he played well at center and was very good at DE, there was no offense at all. We lost a lot of games 6-0, 8-6, etc, etc. We only won 2 games all year. My wife and I, while we were not happy, did not say anything to the coaches. This year, the 8th grade coach has him playing fullback and middle linebacker. He has 17 more carries than the next closest back, is leading the team in rushing yards (just a shade under 500 yards in 4 games), yards per carry (just a shade under 9), and TDs (6). He is also playing middle linebacker and is leading the team in tackles, has 2 forced fumbles, a fumble recovery, and almost 10 TFLs and sacks. More importantly, the team is 4-0 and is averaging 20 points a game which is a HUGE improvement over last year. In short, he is the best player on the team and the 8th grade coach knows it and has put him in the positions that best utilizes his talents and contributes to the success of the team. So I guess what I would have to say to the OP is to be patient. The longer your boy plays, the better the chances are that his talents will be recognized. By the time he gets to high school, daddy ball shouldn't be much of an issue. Most high school coaches want to win. They really don't care who a kid's dad is.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 13, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -6
While I agree with the gist of Coach D's post, I do understand the OP's frustration. We went through the same thing last year. Our boy was on the 7th grade team and clearly was the best fullback on the team (he was actually the best running back, period, but whatever). Anyway, the 7th grade coaches played him at center and DE. The team was pretty tough defensively but the offense was nonexistent. While he played well at center and was very good at DE, there was no offense at all. We lost a lot of games 6-0, 8-6, etc, etc. We only won 2 games all year. My wife and I, while we were not happy, did not say anything to the coaches. To play devil's advocate--If the 7th grade team had such a poor offense with your son (who was probably one of the best players on the team) as an OL opening holes..had he been a back, then chances are he would have been taking a great deal of punishment due to a lack of blocking. That generally seems to be the case with poorly coached teams anyway correct? So that might have been a blessing. Again, that is the beauty of football. I have seen really good athletes have miserable experiences in youth basketball (post player whose team couldn't get him the ball), volleyball (outside hitter whose team couldn't pass and set well enough for her to hit), baseball (great hitter just intentionally walked because of no line up protection... In your case and the OPs, just count your blessing that being a poorly coached team doesn't keep individual players from being successful.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2015 14:00:57 GMT -6
We went through the same thing last year. Our boy was on the 7th grade team and clearly was the best fullback on the team (he was actually the best running back, period, but whatever). Anyway, the 7th grade coaches played him at center and DE. The team was pretty tough defensively but the offense was nonexistent. While he played well at center and was very good at DE, there was no offense at all. We lost a lot of games 6-0, 8-6, etc, etc. We only won 2 games all year. My wife and I, while we were not happy, did not say anything to the coaches. To play devil's advocate--If the 7th grade team had such a poor offense with your son (who was probably one of the best players on the team) as an OL opening holes..had he been a back, then chances are he would have been taking a great deal of punishment due to a lack of blocking. That generally seems to be the case with poorly coached teams anyway correct? So that might have been a blessing. Again, that is the beauty of football. I have seen really good athletes have miserable experiences in youth basketball (post player whose team couldn't get him the ball), volleyball (outside hitter whose team couldn't pass and set well enough for her to hit), baseball (great hitter just intentionally walked because of no line up protection... In your case and the OPs, just count your blessing that being a poorly coached team doesn't keep individual players from being successful. It didn't hurt my kid to play on the OL for a year. If anything, it probably gave him an appreciation for what those guys do. In his first game this year, he rushed for 130 yards and 2 TDs. The next morning before he went to school, he asked us to stop at the store so he could buy a Gatorade for all his TEs and o-linemen. As a former OT, that really warmed my heart! Like I said...if a kid is good enough, his talents will eventually get recognized. That's the great thing about football (and sports in general). It is one of the last bastions of meritocracy.
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Post by simpson12 on Sept 13, 2015 14:36:09 GMT -6
I appreciate the advice and I agree. I realize this is the 5th grade, it just gripes me when it is so obvious. I just needed to hear it and will just keep my mouth shut. Thanks again
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Post by newt21 on Sept 13, 2015 14:48:33 GMT -6
I appreciate the advice and I agree. I realize this is the 5th grade, it just gripes me when it is so obvious. I just needed to hear it and will just keep my mouth shut. Thanks again IMO the biggest thing isn't necessarily talking with the coach, it's to emphasize to your son that while it may not be what he wants or what you want, but it's what the team needs. His willingness to put the team above wherever he thinks he should be will help him to grow up to be more of a man than anything else, which is what it sounds like he has done. Should be a proud papa moment for you that he's able to excel in both places and that he's willing to make this sacrifice for the greater good.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2015 15:46:12 GMT -6
I appreciate the advice and I agree. I realize this is the 5th grade, it just gripes me when it is so obvious. I just needed to hear it and will just keep my mouth shut. Thanks again IMO the biggest thing isn't necessarily talking with the coach, it's to emphasize to your son that while it may not be what he wants or what you want, but it's what the team needs. His willingness to put the team above wherever he thinks he should be will help him to grow up to be more of a man than anything else, which is what it sounds like he has done. Should be a proud papa moment for you that he's able to excel in both places and that he's willing to make this sacrifice for the greater good. Not as applicable to youth ball, but, at least in my son's case, what happened last year really lit a fire under him. We got in the weight room 4 days a week during the offseason. He came into the season (as a 145 lbs 8th grader) with the following: - 40" box jump
- 245 lbs. box squat
- 155 lbs. clean
- 165 lbs. bench press
- 250 lbs. dead lift
Long story short...he was the strongest, fastest, most explosive, and toughest kid on the team when the season started. Playing him at the showcase positions on offense and defense was really a no-brainer for his coach.
So I would encourage you to use this season as motivation for your son. Remind him to develop himself into the kind of player that is absolutely essential to team success.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2015 15:55:50 GMT -6
I appreciate the advice and I agree. I realize this is the 5th grade, it just gripes me when it is so obvious. I just needed to hear it and will just keep my mouth shut. Thanks again IMO the biggest thing isn't necessarily talking with the coach, it's to emphasize to your son that while it may not be what he wants or what you want, but it's what the team needs. His willingness to put the team above wherever he thinks he should be will help him to grow up to be more of a man than anything else, which is what it sounds like he has done. Should be a proud papa moment for you that he's able to excel in both places and that he's willing to make this sacrifice for the greater good. But here's the thing...why should we expect a 5th grader to care about "the team" when the coaches clearly don't? Most kids don't want to be a linemen. They usually end up there because they are either too heavy to carry the ball or aren't very athletic. So, the lesson (for me, anyway) would be for my son to develop himself physically to the point that the coaches, no matter how lacking in objectivity they are, couldn't deny him a position more reflective of his abilities.
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Post by spartan on Sept 13, 2015 16:30:11 GMT -6
Its 5th grade! Show up, cheer.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 13, 2015 19:23:09 GMT -6
Do you keep a spread sheet of your son's stats?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by 33coach on Sept 14, 2015 9:47:32 GMT -6
Do you keep a spread sheet of your son's stats? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards go over film sunday mornings with a grade sheet. "sorry billy, you got an F on your footwork on play #27"
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Post by dshanko67 on Sept 14, 2015 11:49:00 GMT -6
My oline are the superstars of my team. Anyone can run a ball through a designated hole (granted the good backs make it even better), but not everyone can play line. I let my line know each practice and game that it is ultimately up to them. Being a linemen my whole career, I know the value. We have had kids quit this season who wanted to be rbs, even though we have kids play with us for 5 years now that no longer run the ball. Just the dynamics of the team this year.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 14, 2015 11:54:30 GMT -6
My oline are the superstars of my team. Anyone can run a ball through a designated hole (granted the good backs make it even better), but not everyone can play line. I let my line know each practice and game that it is ultimately up to them. Being a linemen my whole career, I know the value. We have had kids quit this season who wanted to be rbs, even though we have kids play with us for 5 years now that no longer run the ball. Just the dynamics of the team this year. thats been my findings over the past 6 seasons in JRHS ball (and even the 2 in HS now that i think about it) a good line makes a good back great a bad line makes a good back bad. i think i just found my new signature....
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Post by dshanko67 on Sept 14, 2015 12:00:32 GMT -6
copyright that now!
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Post by simpson12 on Sept 14, 2015 15:02:38 GMT -6
No I do not but may be a good idea. Honestly I have not thought about it at this age. I am sure one of the other coaches keeps track. It is funny that he just expressed to me this weekend he does not see eye to eye with the head coach...I didnt have to say anything. Thanks Do you keep a spread sheet of your son's stats? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by simpson12 on Sept 14, 2015 15:05:56 GMT -6
I understand clearly. This 5th grade line are as big as the 7th-8th grade boys and my son is small but "stout." It just caught me and some others off guard when he was changed. I am letting things play out because I do believe it is good to learn and understand all positions. Thanks for the reply! My oline are the superstars of my team. Anyone can run a ball through a designated hole (granted the good backs make it even better), but not everyone can play line. I let my line know each practice and game that it is ultimately up to them. Being a linemen my whole career, I know the value. We have had kids quit this season who wanted to be rbs, even though we have kids play with us for 5 years now that no longer run the ball. Just the dynamics of the team this year.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 14, 2015 15:18:54 GMT -6
No I do not but may be a good idea. Honestly I have not thought about it at this age. I am sure one of the other coaches keeps track. It is funny that he just expressed to me this weekend he does not see eye to eye with the head coach...I didnt have to say anything. Thanks Do you keep a spread sheet of your son's stats? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards no, its not a good idea. at that age, the kids should be concerned about the intangibles of the game (team, do your job, work hard...etc) , and getting the very basics of footwork, eyes, hands. they shouldn't be concerned with position stats/grades.
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Post by dshanko67 on Sept 14, 2015 16:34:39 GMT -6
Simpson, being a 5th grade coach and having my son on my team, I can see both sides of this. Now, my son is a lineman so I don't have this issue. If your son is better than the other backs... then I do think the coach may be making a mistake. I'm sure other coaches and parents on this board have seen and been through the same issue. I hope you want what's best for your child and not to make him the "star". Either way, hope it works out.
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Post by joelee on Sept 15, 2015 12:23:08 GMT -6
Hey, its 5th grade, like several people have said. Anything short of profanity or abuse and the coach is probably trying to do the best he can. I had to remove my son from his 5th grade team with 3 games left in the season after 1 game where the head coach grabbed his own son by the facemask and pulled him off the field from the hash, cussing him the entire time.I asked my boy if that kind of stuff happened at practice and he said yes. We turned in his equipment at parks and rec office on Monday and I lectured the director a while about how that man should never coach youth sports again.
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Post by coachjtm on Sept 16, 2015 11:57:08 GMT -6
I'm an OC with a 3rd grade team. I've got my son at QB because he's by far got the most experience throwing the ball and the highest accuracy. Mostly he just hands the ball off. But I get both sides of this no doubt. When my son goes through middle school and he goes to TE or FB or something else I'm going to let him play through that. If he really wants to play at QB I'll have a discussion with the coaches during the off season and continue to work with him separately on his drops, reads, throws and mechanics. I'd highly, highly encourage you to step up behind the staff, work with your son on the side and take this approach. Not only will you build up a significant amount of good will with the coaches, your son will have an appreciation of what the guys who block for him need to do and quite frankly to read and understand his blocks.
Also think of it this way. A back who has line experience is a better back in pass protection and can be left on the field in more protection packages. That's not insignificant for backs. It's hard to do correctly and many backs don't do it well, not enough time is really spent on blocking for backs, and at the next level in high school and especially beyond a running back who can block is every bit as valuable as any receiver.
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Post by tiger46 on Sept 16, 2015 14:47:31 GMT -6
I don't agree, or disagree, with the OP or any other poster. I don't even, necessarily, disagree with the HC the OP mentioned. I'm not there. I've been on both sides of the issue.
The problem is with accurately assessing the situation. As far as 'Who cares?'because they're only 5th graders; the player cares- and, that matters. I don't give a crap what any coach on any level says. It doesn't make the player right. But, he's going to want to know why he isn't allowed to do what he does best. It's not about football, team, etc... to the player. If you take a group of kids and put them in a rock throwing competition, the kid that throws rocks the best is going to want to be the team's rock-thrower. It's as simple as that.
"There was a competition. I'm the best. Why do I not get my reward?". That's the kid's attitude. That's anyone else's attitude, also, if we're being fair about it. So, what is a coach to do? Coaches have to determine what gives the team the best chance of winning. We all know that, too. A great O-line can make a good RB look great. But, a great RB can make a mediocre O-line, well.... 'good enough'. Now, which situation delivers this particular team more wins?
If I am to be honest, at the youth level, a kid that can deliver 46yrd TD's isn't someone that I'd lightly put on the O-line- especially, not with the typical youth passing game. Get behind in scores in a youth football game and think you're going to pass your way down the field for the quick score. ROFlMAO! There are some good youth teams that can do that. But, I bet this isn't one of them. Or, watch what typically constitutes a youth scoring drive. Count the average number of plays before any youth offense scores or turns the ball over. Also, take into account a shorter clock, etc... You may start to rethink putting little Bo Jackson over there, on the O-line to block for little Middle of the Road.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 23, 2015 10:37:34 GMT -6
I'm going to be blunt here; IT'S YOUTH FOOTBALL. This isn't a time for stats or anything else; this is the time for the kids to have fun and learn to play the game, regardless of the position. My youngest is a helluva FB; I've been coaching for many years and began working with him on footwork and ball carrying drills the day he said he wanted to be a RB. He's a DE and OG this year on a team that hasn't won a single game. Do I care that he's playing DE and guard? Nope. Why not? Because the team needs him there and because he's learning and doing a good job at his position. Do I care that he was upset about the move? Nope. Why not? Because it's a learning experience for him in team work. Do I care that they've lost every game? NO!! Why not? BECAUSE IT'S YOUTH FRICKIN' FOOTBALL! I'm not working with the team and I do see poor coaching but the guys out there aren't treating the kids poorly and the team is enjoying the game. The three coaches don't have much of a clue but I'm not saying anything unless they ask for my advice; it's their show and they're treating the kids right. I could have coached his team and I chose not to because I had already committed to my current position.
So, to conclude my rant; get over it. It's youth sports.
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 23, 2015 12:29:17 GMT -6
I'm going to be blunt here; IT'S YOUTH FOOTBALL. This isn't a time for stats or anything else; this is the time for the kids to have fun and learn to play the game, regardless of the position. My youngest is a helluva FB; I've been coaching for many years and began working with him on footwork and ball carrying drills the day he said he wanted to be a RB. He's a DE and OG this year on a team that hasn't won a single game. Do I care that he's playing DE and guard? Nope. Why not? Because the team needs him there and because he's learning and doing a good job at his position. Do I care that he was upset about the move? Nope. Why not? Because it's a learning experience for him in team work. Do I care that they've lost every game? NO!! Why not? BECAUSE IT'S YOUTH FRICKIN' FOOTBALL! I'm not working with the team and I do see poor coaching but the guys out there aren't treating the kids poorly and the team is enjoying the game. The three coaches don't have much of a clue but I'm not saying anything unless they ask for my advice; it's their show and they're treating the kids right. I could have coached his team and I chose not to because I had already committed to my current position. So, to conclude my rant; get over it. It's youth sports. Good for you that you've been able to teach your kid good values and that his coaches are teaching the players and treating them properly. It sounds like your son has a love for the game and will be happy playing any position. However, if I may be blunt, it is naive and misguided to think that things like position, playing time, competitiveness and coaching don't matter simply because it's the youth level. First of all, your situation sounds pretty rare - I can tell you from personal experience (22 years coaching at the youth level) plus 100s (if not thousands) of conversations here and on other boards, that coaches that don't field competitive teams almost always are not teaching their players much and are also almost always not treating the players properly. Coaches that do things right are almost always competitive. So, when youth coaches make daddy ball decisions, make the kids do endless bear crawls/up-downs/other punitive conditioning, run poor practices, play players in the wrong positions, and generally field lousy teams that get physically beat up every week, do you know what happens? The kids on those teams generally don't have much fun and retention sucks (i.e. the kids drop football and try another sport instead the next year, or maybe even in the middle of this season). When that happens, they rarely say, "Well, that sucked, but I'm sure it'll be better in high school, so I'll try again when I get there." No, once they leave football, they almost never come back. So, if that happens in the youth program feeding your high school, you will quickly see all sorts of talent walking around the hallways, and you'll have strong teams in soccer, basketball, lacrosse, baseball, wrestling, volleyball, etc, etc, but you won't have any talent on your football team because the crappy youth program drove them all into other sports and they won't even give football a chance when they get to your level. I hope this never happens to you or your program, but if it does (and I've seen it happen plenty of times at other places), I think you will have a very different opinion on whether these things matter at the youth level. Maybe not for your son, or you as his father, but for most kids and in terms of the overall mission of the youth program, these things matter ... a lot.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 23, 2015 19:29:14 GMT -6
I'm going to be blunt here; IT'S YOUTH FOOTBALL. This isn't a time for stats or anything else; this is the time for the kids to have fun and learn to play the game, regardless of the position. My youngest is a helluva FB; I've been coaching for many years and began working with him on footwork and ball carrying drills the day he said he wanted to be a RB. He's a DE and OG this year on a team that hasn't won a single game. Do I care that he's playing DE and guard? Nope. Why not? Because the team needs him there and because he's learning and doing a good job at his position. Do I care that he was upset about the move? Nope. Why not? Because it's a learning experience for him in team work. Do I care that they've lost every game? NO!! Why not? BECAUSE IT'S YOUTH FRICKIN' FOOTBALL! I'm not working with the team and I do see poor coaching but the guys out there aren't treating the kids poorly and the team is enjoying the game. The three coaches don't have much of a clue but I'm not saying anything unless they ask for my advice; it's their show and they're treating the kids right. I could have coached his team and I chose not to because I had already committed to my current position. So, to conclude my rant; get over it. It's youth sports. Good for you that you've been able to teach your kid good values and that his coaches are teaching the players and treating them properly. It sounds like your son has a love for the game and will be happy playing any position. However, if I may be blunt, it is naive and misguided to think that things like position, playing time, competitiveness and coaching don't matter simply because it's the youth level. First of all, your situation sounds pretty rare - I can tell you from personal experience (22 years coaching at the youth level) plus 100s (if not thousands) of conversations here and on other boards, that coaches that don't field competitive teams almost always are not teaching their players much and are also almost always not treating the players properly. Coaches that do things right are almost always competitive. So, when youth coaches make daddy ball decisions, make the kids do endless bear crawls/up-downs/other punitive conditioning, run poor practices, play players in the wrong positions, and generally field lousy teams that get physically beat up every week, do you know what happens? The kids on those teams generally don't have much fun and retention sucks (i.e. the kids drop football and try another sport instead the next year, or maybe even in the middle of this season). When that happens, they rarely say, "Well, that sucked, but I'm sure it'll be better in high school, so I'll try again when I get there." No, once they leave football, they almost never come back. So, if that happens in the youth program feeding your high school, you will quickly see all sorts of talent walking around the hallways, and you'll have strong teams in soccer, basketball, lacrosse, baseball, wrestling, volleyball, etc, etc, but you won't have any talent on your football team because the crappy youth program drove them all into other sports and they won't even give football a chance when they get to your level. I hope this never happens to you or your program, but if it does (and I've seen it happen plenty of times at other places), I think you will have a very different opinion on whether these things matter at the youth level. Maybe not for your son, or you as his father, but for most kids and in terms of the overall mission of the youth program, these things matter ... a lot. Yup, because a kid started at QB (versus back up OT) on a championship team when he was 10 will have huge, positive ramifications for him and those around him for the rest of his life. The overall "mission" of youth football is to teach them the game and inspire them to love it. Kids don't quit the game because they're on a losing team; they quit because coaches stop playing them as they're focused teaching the kids to be "competitive". This is nothing more than an excuse to fuel ego. 1. Teach the kids the game. 2. Let them practice those skills in a game by PLAYING IN THE GAME. 3. Treat them well. These three things should be the focus of any youth coach. I roll my eyes every time I hear a youth coach talk about "competitiveness".
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 24, 2015 9:15:07 GMT -6
Of course, the exact same thing could be said about high school sports.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 25, 2015 3:51:15 GMT -6
I'm going to be blunt here; IT'S YOUTH FOOTBALL. This isn't a time for stats or anything else; this is the time for the kids to have fun and learn to play the game, regardless of the position. My youngest is a helluva FB; I've been coaching for many years and began working with him on footwork and ball carrying drills the day he said he wanted to be a RB. He's a DE and OG this year on a team that hasn't won a single game. Do I care that he's playing DE and guard? Nope. Why not? Because the team needs him there and because he's learning and doing a good job at his position. Do I care that he was upset about the move? Nope. Why not? Because it's a learning experience for him in team work. Do I care that they've lost every game? NO!! Why not? BECAUSE IT'S YOUTH FRICKIN' FOOTBALL! I'm not working with the team and I do see poor coaching but the guys out there aren't treating the kids poorly and the team is enjoying the game. The three coaches don't have much of a clue but I'm not saying anything unless they ask for my advice; it's their show and they're treating the kids right. I could have coached his team and I chose not to because I had already committed to my current position. So, to conclude my rant; get over it. It's youth sports. But that isn't what this thread is about. I've seen youth teams with coaches who weren't particularly knowledgeable. That's not the same thing as having youth coaches who are only coaching so they can make sure their kids get shown favoritism over other kids. I can handle a little incompetence from youth coaches as long as they are earnest and treat the kids well. What pi$$e$ parents off at the youth level is a coach whose focus is 100% on making sure that his kid is the star of the show.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 25, 2015 4:26:24 GMT -6
Good for you that you've been able to teach your kid good values and that his coaches are teaching the players and treating them properly. It sounds like your son has a love for the game and will be happy playing any position. However, if I may be blunt, it is naive and misguided to think that things like position, playing time, competitiveness and coaching don't matter simply because it's the youth level. First of all, your situation sounds pretty rare - I can tell you from personal experience (22 years coaching at the youth level) plus 100s (if not thousands) of conversations here and on other boards, that coaches that don't field competitive teams almost always are not teaching their players much and are also almost always not treating the players properly. Coaches that do things right are almost always competitive. So, when youth coaches make daddy ball decisions, make the kids do endless bear crawls/up-downs/other punitive conditioning, run poor practices, play players in the wrong positions, and generally field lousy teams that get physically beat up every week, do you know what happens? The kids on those teams generally don't have much fun and retention sucks (i.e. the kids drop football and try another sport instead the next year, or maybe even in the middle of this season). When that happens, they rarely say, "Well, that sucked, but I'm sure it'll be better in high school, so I'll try again when I get there." No, once they leave football, they almost never come back. So, if that happens in the youth program feeding your high school, you will quickly see all sorts of talent walking around the hallways, and you'll have strong teams in soccer, basketball, lacrosse, baseball, wrestling, volleyball, etc, etc, but you won't have any talent on your football team because the crappy youth program drove them all into other sports and they won't even give football a chance when they get to your level. I hope this never happens to you or your program, but if it does (and I've seen it happen plenty of times at other places), I think you will have a very different opinion on whether these things matter at the youth level. Maybe not for your son, or you as his father, but for most kids and in terms of the overall mission of the youth program, these things matter ... a lot. Yup, because a kid started at QB (versus back up OT) on a championship team when he was 10 will have huge, positive ramifications for him and those around him for the rest of his life. The overall "mission" of youth football is to teach them the game and inspire them to love it. Kids don't quit the game because they're on a losing team; they quit because coaches stop playing them as they're focused teaching the kids to be "competitive". This is nothing more than an excuse to fuel ego. 1. Teach the kids the game. 2. Let them practice those skills in a game by PLAYING IN THE GAME. 3. Treat them well. These three things should be the focus of any youth coach. I roll my eyes every time I hear a youth coach talk about "competitiveness". You're rolling your eyes because you think you are somehow better than a youth coach because you coach at a higher level. Here's what you aren't getting...it doesn't have to be completely one thing or another. Believe it or not, you can run a competitive, winning youth program in which the kids learn to love the game and have a lot of fun. The organization I run is a perfect example. Our philosophy is that every 6th grader starts somewhere, no matter how bad they are. Has that cost us some games over the years? Sure. But we win a lot more than we lose and we just finished up a 6-0 season Wednesday night (and our 5th graders finished the year 5-0-1). So, all of our 6th graders played a TON of football this year (we have 13 kids...11 kids start both ways and we have a 2 plays in-2 plays out rotation on the d-line), we were very competitive (as evidenced by an undefeated season), and the kids and parents enjoyed the ride and had a great time. Competitiveness needs to be a trait of all football coaches, regardless of the level they are at. We film our games, I watch it and break it down, I write detailed practice plans, and we gameplan for upcoming opponents. All on two 90-minute practices a week. If you aren't competitive, what that REALLY means is that you don't care and aren't willing to put in any extra work. You just show up and run a half-assed practice and kids don't learn anything and you can't win any games. That doesn't sound like much "fun" to me. Anything worth doing is worth doing well. But you go on thinking that your kid and his buddies are having a great time. I GUARANTEE you that they would have had a better time on my team this past season. Better yet, maybe I should forward my contact info to your kid's coach...would love to have you guys on the schedule next year!
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Post by coachcb on Sept 25, 2015 7:46:38 GMT -6
Yup, because a kid started at QB (versus back up OT) on a championship team when he was 10 will have huge, positive ramifications for him and those around him for the rest of his life. The overall "mission" of youth football is to teach them the game and inspire them to love it. Kids don't quit the game because they're on a losing team; they quit because coaches stop playing them as they're focused teaching the kids to be "competitive". This is nothing more than an excuse to fuel ego. 1. Teach the kids the game. 2. Let them practice those skills in a game by PLAYING IN THE GAME. 3. Treat them well. These three things should be the focus of any youth coach. I roll my eyes every time I hear a youth coach talk about "competitiveness". You're rolling your eyes because you think you are somehow better than a youth coach because you coach at a higher level. Here's what you aren't getting...it doesn't have to be completely one thing or another. Believe it or not, you can run a competitive, winning youth program in which the kids learn to love the game and have a lot of fun. The organization I run is a perfect example. Our philosophy is that every 6th grader starts somewhere, no matter how bad they are. Has that cost us some games over the years? Sure. But we win a lot more than we lose and we just finished up a 6-0 season Wednesday night (and our 5th graders finished the year 5-0-1). So, all of our 6th graders played a TON of football this year (we have 13 kids...11 kids start both ways and we have a 2 plays in-2 plays out rotation on the d-line), we were very competitive (as evidenced by an undefeated season), and the kids and parents enjoyed the ride and had a great time. Competitiveness needs to be a trait of all football coaches, regardless of the level they are at. We film our games, I watch it and break it down, I write detailed practice plans, and we gameplan for upcoming opponents. All on two 90-minute practices a week. If you aren't competitive, what that REALLY means is that you don't care and aren't willing to put in any extra work. You just show up and run a half-assed practice and kids don't learn anything and you can't win any games. That doesn't sound like much "fun" to me. Anything worth doing is worth doing well. But you go on thinking that your kid and his buddies are having a great time. I GUARANTEE you that they would have had a better time on my team this past season. Better yet, maybe I should forward my contact info to your kid's coach...would love to have you guys on the schedule next year! I'm rolling my eyes because I am tired of hearing youth and middle school coaches treating 4th-8th grade football like it's life-or-death or a professional sport. It is an epidemic in this country in all youth sports. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of youth/middle school coaches that talk about being "competitive" emphasize winning over playing time/developing the players. I will take my kid's coaches over most of the youth coaches I have been around because of the simple fact that they see the bigger picture; they're playing all of the kids and stressing that the game is fun. Yes, they run terrible practices and are lacking as coaches but they're trying and they treat my kid right. Yup, they're losing games but those kids are out there, playing hard, working as a team and ENJOYING THE GAME. I will take that over the weekend warrior who keeps "stats" on his 5th grade football team any day. And, don't assume that I haven't coached at the youth level; I have. In seventeen seasons, I have coached three youth teams. Every kid played equally and we lost a grand total of two games. We never used the word "competitive" once; we never even talked about winning or losing. We stressed the PROCESS: dial in at practice, get better, work/play hard and have fun. Right now, I'm coaching an 8th grade team and we're having a great season, ON PAPER. Outside of the Ws and Ls, the kids are miserable because the guys I am coaching with play too much Madden and spend too many Mondays nursing their hang-overs and whining about their fantasy teams. The game is not fun for these kids, even though we haven't lost a game. We just happen to be very athletic and have a light schedule. Practices are frustrating and depressing because these other a$$holes are putting the kids through the grinder, only playing half of the them and then treating them like crap. We started out with 31 kids; we're down to 21. Thankfully, the administration sees what I am seeing and is addressing it. He isn't calling the season a success and neither am I. But, I am done. The youth sport culture in this country is a detriment to athletics and it's getting worse.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 25, 2015 9:30:06 GMT -6
But, I am done. The youth sport culture in this country is a detriment to athletics and it's getting worse. I agree---however, I do remember when a thread a few years ago and it seemed the majority of responses here basically read "If it wasn't important, they wouldn't keep the score!!!"
I do know that it is somewhat of a double standard though...HS coaches often saying "youth job is to develop kids" (read: get them ready for ME) and they view HS as "whats important"
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