|
Post by jgordon1 on Apr 25, 2015 21:17:16 GMT -6
It must just be the libertarian in me, but what business is it what a kid does away from school? I know this topic has come up on here before and I am sure I posted the exact same response as I am about to, but I mean really, all I ever hear is teachers complaining about “raising somebody’s kids” and then turn around and take on the responsibility of disciplining a kid for something away from school. I am not condoning drug use for teenagers, so don’t assume that is what I am saying. I just think that school districts have no business in the lives of kids AWAY from the school as far as discipline. Now if you see a kid doing something stupid like this, it does open the door to a great mentoring moment, but thats all IMO. Yes...I agree with this post..the govt definitely overreaches. To me, as coaches, I am always going to give a kid that second chance. Its why I coach. the easy thing to do would be to kick him off..give up...punishment ? IDK if that works..its not like you can kick the crap out of him..I also agree w/ the poster who said, yup, kick the kid off the sports team, but another kid gets to go to prom, be in the play etc
|
|
|
Post by freezeoption on Apr 26, 2015 12:27:08 GMT -6
here is a couple of answers for your statement, our state has a extra curricular good citizen contract, get in trouble with the law, it will also apply to school, plus our state has a program in some schools where the students get 2 years of community college or jr college paid for by the state if they do everything covered in the agreement, which one is being a good citizen, get in trouble with the law that is done, next, that kid represents your school, program, whatever else, so what he does reflects on your program, that is why i pick our captains and it is a week by week deal, i don't want some dill rod getting picked for captain then doing something stupid then me having to take away the captain status, my administrators don't understand that
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 27, 2015 7:45:59 GMT -6
Maybe I am off base here.... I just don't get it anymore. Kids are High School students first and foremost. They participate on athletic teams as a extracurricular activity. Why is it every time a kid does something wrong and it isn't during the season and he is a football player it becomes a football issue. I don't get it. I know we as coaches hold our athletes to a higher standard. Its really difficult to do that if the parents and the school aren't doing that. In my mind if the school handles it as a coach you need to address it with the kid and tell him that this cannot continue and explain to him what the penalty would be if he got caught in season. It really burns me when teachers email the HC because they are having an issue with one of the kids on the team. I mean come on do your job.... The HC of the football team is just that... we can try to push kids in the right direction but other have to be accountable as well. At my last school a cheerleader was suspended for the season because her friend posted a pic of her drinking on facebook. She had spent the weekend with her friend who had graduated the year before. Her friend, former cheerleader and was the cheerleading advisor's daughter and the picture was from the previous spring. I agree. I do not understand how something that happens outside of season and/or not on our watch has to be handled by us as coaches. That's stupid. and I whole heartedly agree with you on teachers. "Hayden was late to class again today, can you talk to him?" How about you write his @$$ up and give him a saturday school just like you would for any other kid in your class?
Math teacher; "Your football player is being disruptive in my class. What are you going to do about it?"
Me: "Your Math student fumbled on the goal line last Friday night. What are YOU going to do about THAT?!"
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 27, 2015 12:05:04 GMT -6
Why don't you feel like you have any leverage? Just because its out of season? I'd say you have all the leverage in the world, especially if you've been there a while. I also think your school is putting you at a disadvantage with not having a suspension policy in place. If it were me, I'd apply the schools punishment (probably a harsher one) even though its not in season. If the kids don't like it and threaten to quit, I'd tell 'em to kick rocks. The problem is that if you try to implement a sanction that is not supported by actual policy, you'll get hammered on the other end. At the end of the day, it is prudent to follow your district's policy. Nothing more, nothing less, otherwise one could look at virtually every element of student life and apply their own subjective judgement and consequence on it.
|
|
|
Post by 90rocket on Apr 27, 2015 14:22:25 GMT -6
I get that FB coaches don't want to be the ones to discipline students when it their their players disrupting the class. However, at our school there are plenty of kids that get 0 discipline at home. Write them up? Parents don't care. Tell them to stay after? They don't.
About all we have as leverage as teachers here are sports. I used to have the same school of though as many of you when I hated being contacted by other teachers about my athletes. Now I go right to the kids coach when I have a punk in my class if there is no parental support.
If the kid doesn't play sports and doesn't have any parental support...my hands are pretty much tied at my school.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2015 15:51:13 GMT -6
It must just be the libertarian in me, but what business is it what a kid does away from school? I know this topic has come up on here before and I am sure I posted the exact same response as I am about to, but I mean really, all I ever hear is teachers complaining about “raising somebody’s kids” and then turn around and take on the responsibility of disciplining a kid for something away from school. I am not condoning drug use for teenagers, so don’t assume that is what I am saying. I just think that school districts have no business in the lives of kids AWAY from the school as far as discipline. Now if you see a kid doing something stupid like this, it does open the door to a great mentoring moment, but thats all IMO. At the same time, don't you think those behaviors out of school will impact your program?
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2015 15:51:53 GMT -6
Maybe I am off base here.... I just don't get it anymore. Kids are High School students first and foremost. They participate on athletic teams as a extracurricular activity. Why is it every time a kid does something wrong and it isn't during the season and he is a football player it becomes a football issue. I don't get it. I know we as coaches hold our athletes to a higher standard. Its really difficult to do that if the parents and the school aren't doing that. In my mind if the school handles it as a coach you need to address it with the kid and tell him that this cannot continue and explain to him what the penalty would be if he got caught in season. It really burns me when teachers email the HC because they are having an issue with one of the kids on the team. I mean come on do your job.... The HC of the football team is just that... we can try to push kids in the right direction but other have to be accountable as well. Because increasingly, we're supposed to be their coach, mentor and father. It's getting ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by s73 on Apr 27, 2015 17:01:58 GMT -6
I've been in the HC position for almost 5 weeks now, still getting things going, things are starting to change. Its funny how you can talk with a kid, or several, and see those that are buying in and those that don't believe a word I am saying. Anyway, I talk with my one on-campus coach today, a VP, who proceeds to tell me that he was made aware of an image on social media showing 4 of our players, very, very baked, holding a baggie of pot up by their faces. He handled it from the school side, they got yelled at by the VP for being football players, they are in school drug counseling now, talked with parents, all that. He was asking me what my thoughts were for team discipline. Said that I'd thought about a lot of things, I was really up on things last season and had all the answers. Now, when I turn around, there's nobody there, just me so I've got to come up an answer. If this was in-season it would be all the school discipline plus a 1-game suspension plus lots of extra stuff to do after practice. Twice and gone. But we're not in-season and there's no guarantee they will be there this fall anyway. I've got no leverage right now, what am I going to do, ban them from the weight room? What do you guys do when this type of thing happens in the off-season, and in-season? Is there a difference from a program perspective? I know this might incur some "ire" from others but honestly I would do nothing. Why? B/c your district hasn't taken the time or care to have a set response to these types of things. I think it's at the least, COWARDLY on your districts part and at most INCOMPETENT. If the district doesn't take the time to prepare for these obvious situations that will show themselves every year, then I certainly would not put myself out there as a punching bag for the community without any district guideline as a support system. Again, I imagine some may not agree but why stick my neck out if the district won't? IMO those are the districts that won't have a plan for those situations, then you make a decision to uphold some penalty, the parents go nuts, the district caves, and next thing you know the principal over turns you. Now you're the "D-Bag" too? Forget that. Again, JMO.
|
|
|
Post by coachrdc on Apr 27, 2015 19:29:01 GMT -6
Why don't you feel like you have any leverage? Just because its out of season? I'd say you have all the leverage in the world, especially if you've been there a while. I also think your school is putting you at a disadvantage with not having a suspension policy in place. If it were me, I'd apply the schools punishment (probably a harsher one) even though its not in season. If the kids don't like it and threaten to quit, I'd tell 'em to kick rocks. The problem is that if you try to implement a sanction that is not supported by actual policy, you'll get hammered on the other end. At the end of the day, it is prudent to follow your district's policy. Nothing more, nothing less, otherwise one could look at virtually every element of student life and apply their own subjective judgement and consequence on it. I think it depends on the size of the community and the equity you as a head coach have built. For example; if this situation were to happen at my current school, our HC could implement any reasonable punishment that he saw fit because he has been here for 7 or 8 years and it's a small enough community that everyone knows his program expectations. If he has less time in (3 years or less) or if its a larger community where maybe not as many are familiar with him, then yes, sticking explicitly to district policy would be best.
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Apr 27, 2015 20:12:30 GMT -6
It must just be the libertarian in me, but what business is it what a kid does away from school? I know this topic has come up on here before and I am sure I posted the exact same response as I am about to, but I mean really, all I ever hear is teachers complaining about “raising somebody’s kids” and then turn around and take on the responsibility of disciplining a kid for something away from school. I am not condoning drug use for teenagers, so don’t assume that is what I am saying. I just think that school districts have no business in the lives of kids AWAY from the school as far as discipline. Now if you see a kid doing something stupid like this, it does open the door to a great mentoring moment, but thats all IMO. At the same time, don't you think those behaviors out of school will impact your program? Those behaviors outside of the "season" of the sport, no. If it is during the season, and a kid is exhibiting this type of behavior, yes it might impact the program. Just to make sure, the last thing I would want is a kid doing stupid and illegal stuff, but how does it affect anything to do with the school if they do. Now if they have any pictures of the football program on their social media sites, that's another issue. That is dragging your program into the mud with them.
|
|
|
Post by coachmonkey on Apr 27, 2015 21:22:50 GMT -6
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
The kid that acts stupidly needs football probably more than football needs the kid. That's my .02.
|
|
|
Post by coolhandluke on Apr 28, 2015 8:10:30 GMT -6
I would think about a one game suspension when the season starts, but that would be the extent of discipline I would hand out. I would not kick them out of the program, because realistically marijuana use is about on par with alcohol so I would discipline them the same.
I think the best teaching tool a coach has is his bench, and he should be ready to use it when he sees fit. Kids can deal with running,doing jumps,whatever physical discipline you want to hand out, but a player wants to play, and the most powerful thing a coach can do is bench his players when he sees fit to do so...it speaks so much louder than words.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 28, 2015 8:25:07 GMT -6
If you hand out more discipline than what school policy dictates, will administration support you when parent(s) come calling?
|
|
|
Post by coolhandluke on Apr 28, 2015 8:45:06 GMT -6
If you suspend a player for one game and do not get the backing of admin, then you are going to struggle. My dad's high school coach, who was a Texas High School HOF and a legend, told him this when he got into coaching. Never take a job with a ton of conditions, because it will never be your program.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 28, 2015 8:49:55 GMT -6
If you suspend a player for one game and do not get the backing of admin, then you are going to struggle. My dad's high school coach, who was a Texas High School HOF and a legend, told him this when he got into coaching. Never take a job with a ton of conditions, because it will never be your program.
if you suspend a kid for a Football-related incident or an In-Season training rule violation, that's true.
If you try to do it for kids' behavior when not under your direct supervision, i.e. the Off-Season, then it gets problematic.
It's not about "conditions." It's about school policy as set by BOE.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 28, 2015 10:57:57 GMT -6
The problem is that if you try to implement a sanction that is not supported by actual policy, you'll get hammered on the other end. At the end of the day, it is prudent to follow your district's policy. Nothing more, nothing less, otherwise one could look at virtually every element of student life and apply their own subjective judgement and consequence on it. I think it depends on the size of the community and the equity you as a head coach have built. For example; if this situation were to happen at my current school, our HC could implement any reasonable punishment that he saw fit because he has been here for 7 or 8 years and it's a small enough community that everyone knows his program expectations. If he has less time in (3 years or less) or if its a larger community where maybe not as many are familiar with him, then yes, sticking explicitly to district policy would be best. If you don't stick with BOE policy, for better or worse, sooner or later you'll get stung. It's just the way it is. If you feel strongly that sanctions should be able to be implemented outside of season, I suggest you petition the powers that be and get it in policy.
|
|
|
Post by IronmanFootball on Apr 29, 2015 8:23:09 GMT -6
We had so many fights about kids doing the drama play, SGA, or whatever with under a 2.0 or with referrals- new principal nipped that in the bud. I know I'm a strict coach with high (read: any) expectations but a 2.0 should be all encompassing. For our school you can't go to prom if you've had out of school suspension, or are under on volunteer hours (15) or under a 2.0
|
|
|
Post by coachrdc on Apr 29, 2015 11:44:46 GMT -6
Coach Bennett, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. I've played/lived/coached in the area that I am currently in since I was in diapers and have seen discipline beyond school policy (in one case it directly led to a change in school policy) by coaches in this area and never heard of coaches being disciplined or fired because of it. That's not to say that it is in other parts of the state or country it's not different, but that has been my experience.
|
|