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Post by crock1615 on Apr 9, 2015 12:56:23 GMT -6
Our state is implementing a new "Limited Contact" Practice Policy next season. It has rules about how much "Full Contact" you can have at practice. There are rules like - No full contact allowed on 3 consecutive days. - No more than 30 minutes of full contact per practice - it also sets limits on the length of practice and puts restrictions on two-a-days. are any other states doing this? the full policy can be found on the link below. tssaa.org/football-practice-regulations-full-contact/
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Post by saltfork on Apr 9, 2015 13:03:49 GMT -6
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 9, 2015 13:38:46 GMT -6
Our state is implementing a new "Limited Contact" Practice Policy next season. It has rules about how much "Full Contact" you can have at practice. There are rules like - No full contact allowed on 3 consecutive days. - No more than 30 minutes of full contact per practice - it also sets limits on the length of practice and puts restrictions on two-a-days. are any other states doing this? the full policy can be found on the link below. tssaa.org/football-practice-regulations-full-contact/We have limits. I do not know of anyone enforcing them to make sure folks are following the rules. As always someone out there will cheat.
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Post by coacheck on Apr 9, 2015 13:43:27 GMT -6
Wisconsin set limits last season. I'd have to look up the details.
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2015 13:48:08 GMT -6
Our state instituted limits on "collision" practices and length of Pre-season practices last year.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 9, 2015 16:05:55 GMT -6
Honestly I don't really see an issue with your rules on the link. were you fully tackling or even thud for over 30 minutes every practice during the season anyway? We typically only thud during team.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 9, 2015 16:06:12 GMT -6
Honestly I don't really see an issue with your rules on the link. were you fully tackling or even thud for over 30 minutes every practice during the season anyway? We typically only thud during team.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 9, 2015 16:45:08 GMT -6
Minnesota is implementing new rules this year. Summer and Fall Camp schedules are impacted. In season is not really any different. The amount of live contact is restricted but I don't think it will lead us to have to make any serious changes in that department. We hardly go live in practice anyway.
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Post by crock1615 on Apr 9, 2015 17:33:07 GMT -6
Honestly I don't really see an issue with your rules on the link. were you fully tackling or even thud for over 30 minutes every practice during the season anyway? We typically only thud during team. Not so much during the season, but in preseason, I can see these rules making us change how we do things The rule about no more than 2 consecutive days of full contact and no more than 3 days in a week, especially. Typically in preseason we have full contact at practice Monday thru Thursday and scrimmage on Friday. There is a mandatory meeting for Head coaches in our area next week where they are supposed to answer any questions about the policy.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 10, 2015 13:25:00 GMT -6
CA has a new law in place... notice i said LAW, not a policy... actually went in through the state legislature, violating it opens up coaches to fines, potentially jail time
off season no full contact, no thud, nothing at game like speeds... any drill has to be under control with a pre decided winner of the drill
each section gets to pick their official start date, usually early August... from then on , you are allowed to do full contact for a max of 90 minutes, 2 days a week max this runs through the end of your season
in season it wont effect us, we never do close to 90 minutes of contact drills a day summer time it is a slight change, will mostly effect how i run my team camp, but we arent just crashing in to eachother all summer prior to this, for about the last decade or so, in our section all rules went away in the summer... you could have had 10 full contact practices a day if you wanted so for some coaches it might effect the way they do things
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Post by leethefootballcoach on Apr 13, 2015 21:12:00 GMT -6
Not so much during the season, but in preseason, I can see these rules making us change how we do things The rule about no more than 2 consecutive days of full contact and no more than 3 days in a week, especially. Typically in preseason we have full contact at practice Monday thru Thursday and scrimmage on Friday. There is a mandatory meeting for Head coaches in our area next week where they are supposed to answer any questions about the policy. We have come back from the TSSAA meeting with some concerns. Basically each player gets 30 min of full contact each day. If you two platoon, no big deal, and if you are a great program already, it wont change how you practice much. However, we have many players going both ways and that leaves 15 min for Offense and 15 for Defense. DL pass rush drill counts as full contact. OL down blocking an opponent without dummies counts as live. (we're wing-t) How can you get live team reps with these rules. How can you practice down blocking a moving opponent that holds a bag? Not a big deal for DBs and WR but front 7 will have trouble with this. What are some ideas people may have?
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 13, 2015 21:47:32 GMT -6
Get some really little bags?
Idk, man. We go to our meeting tomorrow, pretty sure I'm not gonna like it.
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collier
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Post by collier on Apr 14, 2015 4:59:58 GMT -6
Our state just adopted this policy. 90 minutes of full contact (see definitions below) per week, can't have full contact for 3 consecutive days.
As someone else pointed out, if you two platoon that leaves 30 mins of thud/live per player 3 times a week on ONE side of the ball.
If you're a small school like us, now you have to divide that 30 mins between O and D.
So if you're the OL coach and you do 5 mins of thud blocking in Indy, 5 mins of thud pass pro, and 10 mins of thud team you've cut into that kids defensive time for the day.
It seems like rotating contact days could be a viable practice method for one platoon teams.
Mon- offensive contact day; defense: air, bags, and control
Tues- defensive contact day; offense: air, bags, and control
Wed- no contact (can only have 2 consec. days)
Thurs- light contact for both
OR
Mon- no contact
Tues- defensive contact day; offense: air, bags, and control
Wed- offensive contact day; defense: air, bags, and control
Thurs- no contact
Thoughts? Ideas?
The excerpt below was taken from a prominent newspaper from our state:
"A. For purposes of this by-law, the following definitions shall apply:
AIR – Players run a drill unopposed without contact;
BAGS – Players run a drill against a bag or another soft-contact surface;
CONTROL – Players run a drill at assigned speed until the moment of contact and one player is pre-determined the “winner” by the coach. Contact remains above the waist and players stay on their feet;
THUD – Players run a drill at competitive speed through the moment of contact with no pre-determined “winner.” Contact remains above the waist, players stay on their feet and a quick whistle ends the drill;
LIVE ACTION – Players run a drill in game-like conditions and is the only time that players are taken to the ground;
FULL CONTACT – Contact which meets the definition of Live Action or Thud."
I'm just wondering how folks are going to practice like this. It seems like the crux of the new policy, in our state at least, lies in pre-determining a winner during contact sessions. We've never done this per se, but it's always been understood that when the defensive player(s) wraps you up during what we have traditionally called "thud" sessions, the play is over and the coaches blow it dead. I guess now we can do the same, except declare to everyone "the defense is the pre-determined winner" and call it a "control" session rather than "thud" like we always have.
I don't disagree with the policy, and I'm all for player safety. In fact, I bet we will all find that it won't change the way we practice all that much. The only thing that threw me off at first is the way they define thud...thud for us is more like what they are defining as control.
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CoachL
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Post by CoachL on Apr 14, 2015 6:50:06 GMT -6
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 14, 2015 9:37:32 GMT -6
Yes- Delaware is passing no more than 90mins full contact per week outside of competition. It actually doesn't affect our normal way of practicing too much during the season, but preseason it does.
We two platoon so this is how we do it with offense practicing separate from defense:
On Offensive emphasis day we get 20 mins Inside drill live + 20-25mins Team O Thud (40-45mins contact total). Our starting Defense is playing some scout for the offense, so we count it as contact for them as well.
On Defensive emphasis days we do Team D Thud for 25mins of contact. Usually our starting O is getting some time against these guys, so we count it for them. We also do some key/inside periods that are thud for about 10-15mins for the D and O.
Totals Weekly: Offense & Defense - 80-85mins
That leaves us 5-10mins per week wiggle room. OL/DL gets some 1v1 time with this.
I really don't see it hindering us at all. We don't need to extend the time of contact- if we are "soft" then our intensity of the drill must change, not the length of time.
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Post by fantom on Apr 14, 2015 9:41:58 GMT -6
Our state just adopted this policy. 90 minutes of full contact (see definitions below) per week, can't have full contact for 3 consecutive days. As someone else pointed out, if you two platoon that leaves 30 mins of thud/live per player 3 times a week on ONE side of the ball. If you're a small school like us, now you have to divide that 30 mins between O and D. So if you're the OL coach and you do 5 mins of thud blocking in Indy, 5 mins of thud pass pro, and 10 mins of thud team you've cut into that kids defensive time for the day. It seems like rotating contact days could be a viable practice method for one platoon teams. Mon- offensive contact day; defense: air, bags, and control Tues- defensive contact day; offense: air, bags, and control Wed- no contact (can only have 2 consec. days) Thurs- light contact for both OR Mon- no contact Tues- defensive contact day; offense: air, bags, and control Wed- offensive contact day; defense: air, bags, and control Thurs- no contact Thoughts? Ideas? The excerpt below was taken from a prominent newspaper from our state: "A. For purposes of this by-law, the following definitions shall apply: AIR – Players run a drill unopposed without contact; BAGS – Players run a drill against a bag or another soft-contact surface; CONTROL – Players run a drill at assigned speed until the moment of contact and one player is pre-determined the “winner” by the coach. Contact remains above the waist and players stay on their feet; THUD – Players run a drill at competitive speed through the moment of contact with no pre-determined “winner.” Contact remains above the waist, players stay on their feet and a quick whistle ends the drill; LIVE ACTION – Players run a drill in game-like conditions and is the only time that players are taken to the ground; FULL CONTACT – Contact which meets the definition of Live Action or Thud." I'm just wondering how folks are going to practice like this. It seems like the crux of the new policy, in our state at least, lies in pre-determining a winner during contact sessions. We've never done this per se, but it's always been understood that when the defensive player(s) wraps you up during what we have traditionally called "thud" sessions, the play is over and the coaches blow it dead. I guess now we can do the same, except declare to everyone "the defense is the pre-determined winner" and call it a "control" session rather than "thud" like we always have. I don't disagree with the policy, and I'm all for player safety. In fact, I bet we will all find that it won't change the way we practice all that much. The only thing that threw me off at first is the way they define thud...thud for us is more like what they are defining as control. Who enforces this?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 14, 2015 10:33:04 GMT -6
If they are anything like our state, no one. Rules that aren't enforced are hard to justify.
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collier
Junior Member
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Post by collier on Apr 14, 2015 10:52:24 GMT -6
I can't imagine who would have the time, energy, or resources to do it.
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 14, 2015 10:57:35 GMT -6
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Post by coachb5806 on Apr 14, 2015 11:18:09 GMT -6
NM passed similar rules that were in effect last season. Here is how we have broken it down and worked with it. If you read the definitions of the rules, its very similar to what has already been posted above, it talks about specific drills and definitions of varying degrees of contact. In my mind, when I am coaching or we are between reps, that is not contact time.
I am looking at this as actual contact time. Let's be really generous and say that a full contact play in a scrimmage lasts ten seconds. Well, that means each individual player can have up to 180 live reps in a practice.
We are wing t and go intense indy periods, with plenty of live work on Tuesdays and live scrimmages on Wednesdays. We have gone as many as 40 live offensive play reps in a scrimmage then flipped to defense. We are a small school, 36 on the roster.
My point is this, even if we go 80 live plays in a scrimmage, we haven't used up half of our contact time as alloted by these rules.
Now, before coming to my current school I may not have looked at it this way, but I have sat in with enough lawyers, ahem, parents, in disciplinary situations here to know how to make a case for something.
That's how we do it and you bet I am ready and willing to defend it when Little Johnny's attorney comes asking.
The alternative views says that standing around, actually coaching, running in plays, etc counts as contact time? No way. When the drill is live or the ball is in play, then its contact time. Anyone who wants to come to practice and run a stopwatch for those intervals is welcome to.
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Post by coachfloyd on Apr 14, 2015 11:25:57 GMT -6
exactly. This is one of those things you could cheat on without getting in trouble unless somebody gets hurt and tries to sue. Then you are done. I see that some companies are starting to make "bags" that you can wear. That may be an alternative. Would one on one pass pro with no pads count as contact? Trying to find a way to squeeze more out of the rule.
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Post by fantom on Apr 14, 2015 11:36:16 GMT -6
exactly. This is one of those things you could cheat on without getting in trouble unless somebody gets hurt and tries to sue. Then you are done. I see that some companies are starting to make "bags" that you can wear. That may be an alternative. Would one on one pass pro with no pads count as contact? Trying to find a way to squeeze more out of the rule. They'd need to prove that you went over time. I'm not advocating cheating. I don't see that this rule is any big deal. We're never even close to breaking it. I just think that coaches are worrying too much about it.
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Post by coachb5806 on Apr 14, 2015 11:46:52 GMT -6
Another thing, we film our scrimmages on Wednesday. Those films are never longer than ten minutes. There is your proof right there
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Post by coachfloyd on Apr 14, 2015 12:25:22 GMT -6
exactly. This is one of those things you could cheat on without getting in trouble unless somebody gets hurt and tries to sue. Then you are done. I see that some companies are starting to make "bags" that you can wear. That may be an alternative. Would one on one pass pro with no pads count as contact? Trying to find a way to squeeze more out of the rule. They'd need to prove that you went over time. I'm not advocating cheating. I don't see that this rule is any big deal. We're never even close to breaking it. I just think that coaches are worrying too much about it. where im at people can easily see us practice. it wouldnt be hard for somebody to come out and watch us or film us.
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Post by fantom on Apr 14, 2015 12:30:24 GMT -6
They'd need to prove that you went over time. I'm not advocating cheating. I don't see that this rule is any big deal. We're never even close to breaking it. I just think that coaches are worrying too much about it. where im at people can easily see us practice. it wouldnt be hard for somebody to come out and watch us or film us. Sane here. Are you doing anything wrong?
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collier
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Post by collier on Apr 14, 2015 12:40:19 GMT -6
Like I said, we are a small school that has several kids playing on both sides of the ball. If we can only have thud/full contact for 30 mins per day, obviously that leaves 15 mins for both sides of the ball. It's pretty easy to break it if you ask me. DL- reading/defeating blocks, 1 on 1 pass rush, inside period, team period/goal line...15 mins goes pretty quickly. Same can be said for OL. Obviously it's easier for skills to avoid contact. coachb5806 has an interesting interpretation on the rule.
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Post by fantom on Apr 14, 2015 12:59:02 GMT -6
Like I said, we are a small school that has several kids playing on both sides of the ball. If we can only have thud/full contact for 30 mins per day, obviously that leaves 15 mins for both sides of the ball. It's pretty easy to break it if you ask me. DL- reading/defeating blocks, 1 on 1 pass rush, inside period, team period/goal line...15 mins goes pretty quickly. Same can be said for OL. Obviously it's easier for skills to avoid contact. coachb5806 has an interesting interpretation on the rule. Why? How much full contact were you doing before? I've looked at the rule and it doesn't seem overly resrtictive
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collier
Junior Member
[F4:@kbcollier32]
Posts: 270
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Post by collier on Apr 14, 2015 13:14:54 GMT -6
Like I said, we are a small school that has several kids playing on both sides of the ball. If we can only have thud/full contact for 30 mins per day, obviously that leaves 15 mins for both sides of the ball. It's pretty easy to break it if you ask me. DL- reading/defeating blocks, 1 on 1 pass rush, inside period, team period/goal line...15 mins goes pretty quickly. Same can be said for OL. Obviously it's easier for skills to avoid contact. coachb5806 has an interesting interpretation on the rule. Why? How much full contact were you doing before? I've looked at the rule and it doesn't seem overly resrtictive It's not that we have been having a ton of contact in the past. But, according to what the papers are reporting in GA, thud is considered full contact...in the example I have above, if you do 5 mins of pass rush, 5 mins of inside, and 5 mins of team at a competitive speed without a pre-determined winner then that's 15 minutes of full contact right there. A huge difference between what I'm reading about GA (http://highschoolsports.blog.ajc.com/2015/04/13/ghsa-restricts-full-contact-in-football-practice-puts-basketball-qf-back-to-neutral-courts/) and what is written about Texas (http://www.uiltexas.org/football/page/practice-limits-effective-august-1-2013) is that in GA thud is considered full contact and in Texas it is not. We very, very rarely tackle to the ground, but we thud a lot every day.
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Post by coachdawhip on Apr 14, 2015 18:10:17 GMT -6
In Georgia THUD is the same as FULL CONTACT.
Coach Collier message me, Im 6A but I can help you.
I 2 platoon so it's easier for me.
Monday will be all contact, Tuesday and Wednesday we will do our THUD practices.
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Post by coachdawhip on Apr 14, 2015 18:12:30 GMT -6
We were THUD every day, the only part I disagree with is that THUD and Live Contact (with tackling to the ground ) is considered same thing.
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