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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 30, 2015 9:00:44 GMT -6
I was asked to speak at a buddy's clinic he is hosting for youth coaches. I can choose my topic and have decided to speak on practice organization. Right now, here is what I have in mind. Any help/guidance you guys could give me would be especially helpful.
1) Google Docs- how to use them to effectively set up a practice schedule and collaborate (I figured this would be beneficial to youth coaches since most of them never get a chance to meet during the day) 2) Structuring a practice for maximum efficiency (circuits, half line, etc). Maybe you guys can give me some ideas on ways to do this with limited numbers and coaches? 3) Scaffolding Practice- individual, group, team- each periods piggybacks off of the previous one
I'm pretty much looking for ideas and help on what you feel youth coaches would benefit from.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 30, 2015 11:49:24 GMT -6
Drills that actually marry up with their systems. Most youth Staff's struggle with proper drilling because they rely on youtube or even making stuff up. I know there are Sites out there with a lot of Drills ready for download and or viewing. Directing them to these Sites would be helpful.
How to piggyback your practices is an excellent topic. Most youth Staffs have the bodies to do this but don't properly train up the bodies to do this. Your google docs idea would be very helpful. Really stress pace and organization....a regiment if you will. I create a regiment that will last the entire season. Really helps the coaches and the players. They always know whats next so naturally things will move along well.
Working Fundementals over Systems is a ying yang kind of thing at the youth levels. The curve for both need to cross at the proper time. This is VERY age specific. For the younger kids learning systems is truly more important than fundamentals early in the season. Being in the right place at the right time trumps technique. Then as the season progresses the curves cross and go in opposing directions where you are now heavy into fundamentals since they have now learned how to be in the right place at the right time....if that makes sense. As the kids get older.... fundamentals are always the most important thing right out of the gate because thru experience they have learned how to generalize systems...a LB'r does this...a Wing Back does that and so on.
So practice organization isn't a one size fits all. It has to be age specific.
I would also stress on any player placement ideas you might have. What are the benchmarks you look for each position? This may seem elementary but most youth coaches are all about judging a book by its cover physically without considering anything else. Player placement is probably the biggest swing and a miss the average youth Staff will suffer thru. Since teams are not very deep and time is at a premium...best to try to get things right the first time rather than shuffling all season.
THIS ....would be an excellent Clinic IMHO. Anything to help them get out of the gate clean in preseason is a HUGE positive.
Good luck and thanks for doing this for this Program.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 30, 2015 12:19:41 GMT -6
Thanks mahonz, great ideas
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 30, 2015 14:04:14 GMT -6
Empty
One of the things I have started doing at youth clinics is actually doing demonstrations of drills. How much time are you allotted & what type of room is it going to be in? You can start with practice organization & timing. Then advance to some simple blocking & tackling drills. Youth Football can never have enough of those. The other thing is to deal with how much space do they have for practice. Often Youth teams are sharing practice space.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 30, 2015 17:23:53 GMT -6
3) Scaffolding Practice- individual, group, team- each periods piggybacks off of the previous one I'd better get to that clinic, because I don't know what scaffolding or piggybacking means in this context, though apparently Mahonz does.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 30, 2015 18:57:14 GMT -6
3) Scaffolding Practice- individual, group, team- each periods piggybacks off of the previous one I'd better get to that clinic, because I don't know what scaffolding or piggybacking means in this context, though apparently Mahonz does. Have you purchased a copy of lochness book "Universal Terminology of Football"? It's in there.
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Post by lochness on Mar 30, 2015 19:36:18 GMT -6
I'd better get to that clinic, because I don't know what scaffolding or piggybacking means in this context, though apparently Mahonz does. Have you purchased a copy of lochness book "Universal Terminology of Football"? It's in there. Thanks for the plug, coach. I'd say more, but I'm working on my Jacknife Concept vs our standard Puffy Coverage. I'm sure you know what I mean.
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 31, 2015 7:03:11 GMT -6
Loch
I thought Swiss Army was to be the adjustment to Puffy & Jack Knife was for the Swan coverage.
Joe
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Post by mahonz on Mar 31, 2015 10:24:48 GMT -6
3) Scaffolding Practice- individual, group, team- each periods piggybacks off of the previous one I'd better get to that clinic, because I don't know what scaffolding or piggybacking means in this context, though apparently Mahonz does. Bob Oh I had to do a double take when I read Scaffolding Practice. I had visions of the HC atop a platform yelling at everyone thru his megaphone. But I learned a new term...."scaffold" your practice meaning build from the bottom up and piggyback meaning each session builds to the next.
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Post by Coach.A on Mar 31, 2015 11:33:05 GMT -6
I probably hear the word "scaffolding" at least 20 times whenever we have teacher professional development days. Educational pundits love throwing that term around.
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 31, 2015 17:27:54 GMT -6
...."scaffold" your practice meaning build from the bottom up and piggyback meaning each session builds to the next. Isn't that how practically everybody teaches practically everything?
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 31, 2015 18:56:41 GMT -6
...."scaffold" your practice meaning build from the bottom up and piggyback meaning each session builds to the next. Isn't that how practically everybody teaches practically everything? There are some bad football coaches out there, man. Especially ones that don't do it for a living. I don't think this is something you should just assume is done at the youth football or middle school level.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 1, 2015 9:08:23 GMT -6
Time Mgmt: Which is what Practice Organization is all about.
Warm-ups: Keep them short & dynamic. You don't know how many youth coaches I've seen that thought running & exercising 9yr olds to muscle failure was a great time investment and coaching strategy.
MPP's/MMP's: Many youth football coaches have to know how to deal with MPP's- not only when to play them but also, how to play them. I've learned that it is possible to get productivity out of some MPP's. That doesn't mean they become studs. But, if they can crack block on offense or bearcrawl into gaps on defense, train them.
Coach their Coaches: AC's, Right Hand Man, Get Back Coach, Bag Holders, whatever... Get them organized and functioning as a staff.
Coachability: How to get their players' attention immediately on day one- especially the younger ones. Too much practice time is lost on coaches having to repeat themselves, herding cats, etc... Teach them how to receive instructions and carry them out. How & when to ask a coach a question. Players that haven't been taught how to listen waste practice time.
Problem Players: This ties into the coachability above. Football isn't for everyone. They'll need to know how to discipline their players quickly and effectively. They may even need to know when to cut a player loose.
Game Day Organization: Pre-Game duties and activities, Sideline count, Tracking MPP's, Time Outs, Clock Mgmt. Half-time adjustments. "Block Somebody!", Who wants it more." and, "Get after them!" are not effective adjustments. Time management is very important here, also- especially in the pre-game.
Team Mom's/Team Mgmnt: What coaches and administrative assistants, from the HC on down, should be doing to help create a productive season.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 1, 2015 9:54:27 GMT -6
Also, I should add one more thing. Materials & Resources: Too many youth coaches try to re-invent the wheel. They don't need to. There are great material and resources on many youth offenses and defenses. They should know what resources are available to them on-line and otherwise, also. This site is a great one, of course. Another great site for youth coaches is www.dumcoach.com. They should also seek out any scheme specific sites like www.bucksweep.com, etc... Email coaches that are willing to help them out with questions. Lastly, if there is such a thing, they must know how to translate all these things into bobble-head speech. Doesn't matter what a youth coach knows if he doesn't know how get the kids to understand it. Communication is key.
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Post by fantom on Apr 1, 2015 9:56:44 GMT -6
Time Mgmt: Which is what Practice Organization is all about. Warm-ups: Keep them short & dynamic. You don't know how many youth coaches I've seen that thought running & exercising 9yr olds to muscle failure was a great time investment and coaching strategy. MPP's/MMP's: Many youth football coaches have to know how to deal with MPP's- not only when to play them but also, how to play them. I've learned that it is possible to get productivity out of some MPP's. That doesn't mean they become studs. But, if they can crack block on offense or bearcrawl into gaps on defense, train them. As a HS coach I may not be the guy to talk about this.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 1, 2015 13:21:37 GMT -6
Isn't that how practically everybody teaches practically everything? There are some bad football coaches out there, man. Especially ones that don't do it for a living. I don't think this is something you should just assume is done at the youth football or middle school level. Actually I assumed practically everybody teaches any subject, not just sports, to anyone. I'd expect that people who don't do so as a matter of course are so disorganized one might as well ignore them.
Can you give an example of someone not doing so who wasn't just scatterbrained, or who didn't have some very narrow reason for deviating from that practice in a particular situation? What did they do instead?
I can give one example of how I sometimes deviate from that general method, teaching any of various subjects, including football: I may at the beginning of teaching something give a brief overview, saying this is where we expect to get to. The intention there is to give the student to understand why they need to learn the steps leading up to that point, as well as to satisfy them that I do have a plan in mind.
Meanwhie, Fantom, why would you bother to post to say you're not the person to discuss this subject with? I could understand if someone had previously posted, "Let's ask Fantom about this." I see other people posting stuff like that too; on DumCoach someone asked as the start a thread, those of you who do X, what do you think, etc., & someone posted in that thread just to say, I don't do X.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 1, 2015 14:02:29 GMT -6
There are some bad football coaches out there, man. Especially ones that don't do it for a living. I don't think this is something you should just assume is done at the youth football or middle school level. Actually I assumed practically everybody teaches any subject, not just sports, to anyone. I'd expect that people who don't do so as a matter of course are so disorganized one might as well ignore them.
Can you give an example of someone not doing so who wasn't just scatterbrained, or who didn't have some very narrow reason for deviating from that practice in a particular situation? What did they do instead?
I can give one example of how I sometimes deviate from that general method, teaching any of various subjects, including football: I may at the beginning of teaching something give a brief overview, saying this is where we expect to get to. The intention there is to give the student to understand why they need to learn the steps leading up to that point, as well as to satisfy them that I do have a plan in mind.
Meanwhie, Fantom, why would you bother to post to say you're not the person to discuss this subject with? I could understand if someone had previously posted, "Let's ask Fantom about this." I see other people posting stuff like that too; on DumCoach someone asked as the start a thread, those of you who do X, what do you think, etc., & someone posted in that thread just to say, I don't do X.
Bob I think the point is....some people are really bad Teachers. Starting with A and ending with Z will make you a better Teacher. Many youth coaches would be a whole lot better off knowing this going in. Too many reverse engineer off what they see on TV. Reverse engineering requires experience but still difficult to pull off.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 3, 2015 13:28:25 GMT -6
INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY
Teach them how to play football, not run football plays. So many LL guys I have encountered spend about 90% of time with kids doing install or team things, while not actually teaching tackle HOW to down-block on a 3-technique. I know I have also been accused of spending too much time in indy or small group (3vs3 or 4vs4) drills and not spending almost any time on full-team, but I am a firm believer in the skills kids have winning games, not how many plays I can call.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 5, 2015 9:03:20 GMT -6
INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY INDY Teach them how to play football, not run football plays. So many LL guys I have encountered spend about 90% of time with kids doing install or team things, while not actually teaching tackle HOW to down-block on a 3-technique. I know I have also been accused of spending too much time in indy or small group (3vs3 or 4vs4) drills and not spending almost any time on full-team, but I am a firm believer in the skills kids have winning games, not how many plays I can call. Agreed but this is not fully applicable when coaching the younger kids that have little to no experience. You can teach a kid to tackle really well or block really well but if he doesn't first learn where those skills fit into a particular System, they cant put those skills to good use. Its critical to first organize the mayhem for them. Being in the right place at the right time on both Offense and Defense trumps technique initially. Fundamentals become very important eventually but more so after they learn how the game is played and how all the pieces parts fit together. If you did a Clinic for youth coaches and overly stress Indy Periods...good of the 5th/6th graders...bad for the 2nd /3rd graders. When coaching the littlest dudes...Indy's for 15 minutes because they cant pay attention longer than that then go Team for 75 minutes while you continue teaching the fundamentals. As the season progresses then it gets closer to 50/50. Towards the end of the season... far less Team....much more Indy's. If you are teaching a young kid fundamentals...they will do MUCH better if they actually know when / how / why / where these skill sets applies. If you overspend your time teaching fundamentals you will begin to lose them mentally. The younger kids dont sign up to learn how to block and tackle....they sign up to run around and play football like they do at recess...so you have to balance things out and give them a little.
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 5, 2015 9:28:52 GMT -6
To fight the problem of short attention spans I'd sometimes do a "double" practice, so we'd do Indy, Group, Team, and then go back to Indy, Group, Team.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 5, 2015 9:40:28 GMT -6
To fight the problem of short attention spans I'd sometimes do a "double" practice, so we'd do Indy, Group, Team, and then go back to Indy, Group, Team. Great point. This works VERY WELL especially of you do O and D on the same days. Keeps things fresh and moving along nicely. Whatever it takes to teach them to first love the game outside of the playground is all I really care about. Indy's and Group can become a bore for them so its best to balance things out until they understand how important the boring stuff really is.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 5, 2015 13:23:03 GMT -6
Do group drills bore them even if they're done scrimmage style, like for instance 4-on-4 Oklahomas? I think a lot of kids like those even better than games, because you can rotate positions, make better matchups, and keep up a faster pace than in a game.
My problem has been more of keeping the kids serious in some of the fun small-group drills. For instance, I'd like to practice 2-on-1 drive blocking with them by relays where 2 of them pick up another & carry him a distance before putting him down on his feet, but I've never gotten any group to do that without abusing the human dummy and/or breaking up into giggles.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 5, 2015 13:38:31 GMT -6
If you do typical youth style drills with lines & players standing around of course it will be boring. The key to drilling a team is to make the drills fast paced under control & with a specific goal in mind. Players love the pace of our practices & I can promise you they are never bored. When I go visit a practice & see players standing around it drives me insane.
Bob when we do our 2 on 1 drill it is going so fast no one is standing around.
Joe
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Post by mahonz on Apr 6, 2015 12:39:06 GMT -6
Do group drills bore them even if they're done scrimmage style, like for instance 4-on-4 Oklahomas? I think a lot of kids like those even better than games, because you can rotate positions, make better matchups, and keep up a faster pace than in a game.
My problem has been more of keeping the kids serious in some of the fun small-group drills. For instance, I'd like to practice 2-on-1 drive blocking with them by relays where 2 of them pick up another & carry him a distance before putting him down on his feet, but I've never gotten any group to do that without abusing the human dummy and/or breaking up into giggles.
B Talking littlest dudes here.... For me Group is teaching the O and D rules of alignments / recognition / formations / bird dogging etc so the pace is naturally much slower because the players are learning as a Group. For the little dudes hard to keep them focused for more that 10 minutes or so. Indy's become a grind because its repetitious regardless of pace so the little dudes start to drift away after about 10 minutes. The bigger dudes...not really an issue at all. They get it due to experience. What is tough is when coaching the littlest dudes... Group periods are FAR more important than Indy periods. Doesn't matter how well you block or tackle if you are out of position all the time. Team periods simply release all the mayhem so they can get used to the speed of the game which is important too but only if you have the players to show both side of the football a good look....meaning can you run a decent Scout Team. Typically a good youth Staff that understands the value of a good Scout Team will learn to master half line stuff since most youth teams lack numbers. But half line stuff has its limitations as well. This balancing act between Indy / Group and Team does not exist once the kids get some experience under their belts....then Indy time is King again.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 6, 2015 22:44:29 GMT -6
For me Group is teaching the O and D rules of alignments / recognition / formations / bird dogging etc so the pace is naturally much slower because the players are learning as a Group. For the little dudes hard to keep them focused for more that 10 minutes or so. Indy's become a grind because its repetitious regardless of pace so the little dudes start to drift away after about 10 minutes. The bigger dudes...not really an issue at all. They get it due to experience. What is tough is when coaching the littlest dudes... Group periods are FAR more important than Indy periods. Doesn't matter how well you block or tackle if you are out of position all the time. Team periods simply release all the mayhem so they can get used to the speed of the game which is important too but only if you have the players to show both side of the football a good look....meaning can you run a decent Scout Team. Typically a good youth Staff that understands the value of a good Scout Team will learn to master half line stuff since most youth teams lack numbers. But half line stuff has its limitations as well. This balancing act between Indy / Group and Team does not exist once the kids get some experience under their belts....then Indy time is King again. That would seem to have predicted the team I coached on last season would've done better, because we were 7-10 YOs (almost all 8s & 9s as of the preceding April 30) and the HC, whom you may recall I complained about quite a bit at DumCoach, leaned heavily toward team practice, & away from individual skills. However, we did not have the numbers for a decent scout team, since we totaled 16. Fortunately practice attendance was very good, but that still meant 11-on-5/5-on-11 full contact reps w either a full offense or a full defense, and that lack of balance may have made the difference. I wanted us to run half lines, but the HC emphasized formations & the positions the kids would play in in games, & so he didn't go for half lines, even though we could see some of our opponents (and in some cases, teams in the older division) practicing half-line.
Were it me, I'd've used just 1 formation on offense & 2 fronts on defense so as to need less time on that stuff, and invested the time more in drilling individual skills in groups -- that is, matching up players so that several are repping at a time (rather than mostly waiting in line) but repping individual skills, like whole OL vs. whole DL.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 7, 2015 6:16:06 GMT -6
That would seem to have predicted the team I coached on last season would've done better, because we were 7-10 YOs (almost all 8s & 9s as of the preceding April 30) and the HC, whom you may recall I complained about quite a bit at DumCoach, leaned heavily toward team practice, & away from individual skills. However, we did not have the numbers for a decent scout team, since we totaled 16. Fortunately practice attendance was very good, but that still meant 11-on-5/5-on-11 full contact reps w either a full offense or a full defense, and that lack of balance may have made the difference. I wanted us to run half lines, but the HC emphasized formations & the positions the kids would play in in games, & so he didn't go for half lines, even though we could see some of our opponents (and in some cases, teams in the older division) practicing half-line.
Were it me, I'd've used just 1 formation on offense & 2 fronts on defense so as to need less time on that stuff, and invested the time more in drilling individual skills in groups -- that is, matching up players so that several are repping at a time (rather than mostly waiting in line) but repping individual skills, like whole OL vs. whole DL.
I think now though we would be talking about the nuances of youth coaching. I don't think the OP's presentation would, should or could cover those details. That's where the coaches he's speaking to will have to get out there and familiarize themselves with the material they're teaching, touch bases with their resources and gain experience. Right now, with the suggestions that have been posted here and what was posted in the 'general section' where the OP repeated this question to HS coaches, I think he'd have enough information to make a new youth coach's head explode or, at least, make the coach start wondering 'wtf have I gotten myself into?'. Delving too deep into the everyday finer details of coaching in addition to all of the framework may give some coaches in his audience misgivings about coaching, at all. That's something the OP wouldn't want. Although, those sorts of details could be covered in a Q&A session afterwards.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 7, 2015 12:05:36 GMT -6
That would seem to have predicted the team I coached on last season would've done better, because we were 7-10 YOs (almost all 8s & 9s as of the preceding April 30) and the HC, whom you may recall I complained about quite a bit at DumCoach, leaned heavily toward team practice, & away from individual skills. However, we did not have the numbers for a decent scout team, since we totaled 16. Fortunately practice attendance was very good, but that still meant 11-on-5/5-on-11 full contact reps w either a full offense or a full defense, and that lack of balance may have made the difference. I wanted us to run half lines, but the HC emphasized formations & the positions the kids would play in in games, & so he didn't go for half lines, even though we could see some of our opponents (and in some cases, teams in the older division) practicing half-line.
Were it me, I'd've used just 1 formation on offense & 2 fronts on defense so as to need less time on that stuff, and invested the time more in drilling individual skills in groups -- that is, matching up players so that several are repping at a time (rather than mostly waiting in line) but repping individual skills, like whole OL vs. whole DL.
I think now though we would be talking about the nuances of youth coaching. I don't think the OP's presentation would, should or could cover those details. That's where the coaches he's speaking to will have to get out there and familiarize themselves with the material they're teaching, touch bases with their resources and gain experience. Right now, with the suggestions that have been posted here and what was posted in the 'general section' where the OP repeated this question to HS coaches, I think he'd have enough information to make a new youth coach's head explode or, at least, make the coach start wondering 'wtf have I gotten myself into?'. Delving too deep into the everyday finer details of coaching in addition to all of the framework may give some coaches in his audience misgivings about coaching, at all. That's something the OP wouldn't want. Although, those sorts of details could be covered in a Q&A session afterwards. Maybe Emptybackfield can name his Presentation - A Swift Kick in the Rear. That's all any youth coach really needs going in. Best to know what's up going in over figuring it out 4 weeks in...if at all. Im coaching Tackle Spring Ball right now. We have 21 players representing 7 Fall Teams and one Rookie. These are 5th graders that have been playing a few years and you'd think since they signed up to play Tackle Football in the off season....they would be football geeks. Lordi....some of the basic things they dont know yet....blows my mind. They are geeks but football escapes some of them. Oh well....Spring Ball....its casual. Better than doing nothing I suppose. Im having fun so that's cool. Teaching the kids is something I truly enjoy. If I had a mentor in the early days warning me about stuff I would have been much better off. I think I have made every mistake known to coaching at least once.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 7, 2015 12:40:07 GMT -6
Coach Mahonz,
Lol! I would definitely recommend and attend that clinic presentation. I was a certified disaster my first year as a youth coach. Luckily, I found this site and others after that first season. More importantly, I got to learn from the more experienced coaches such as yourself on things not to do. Of course, being a stubborn idiot, I still managed to do some of those things anyway- much to my sorrow and dismay.
I like to think that over the years that I've improved as a coach in spite of sometimes getting in my own way.
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Post by hammer66 on Apr 10, 2015 7:42:03 GMT -6
Coach Mahonz, I think your missing one important thing. Individual work is HUGE... I got what your saying about attention span. I deal with it at the HS level as well. When you talk about a 15-20 min INDY period you should not be doing the same drill for that entire time. I break up my INDY period 20 mins usually. We rep the same 4-5 drills daily in 5 min increments. Since we are doing the same drills there is NO need to waste time setting up and explaining it to them. Those drills play a key role in what we do in our TEAM periods. I just don't see a need for 75 mins of TEAM. I would think your losing kids attention there just as quickly.... I hope this helps...BTW I am still making mistakes 25 plus years in...just not as many and as big...hahahaha
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Post by mahonz on Apr 10, 2015 8:57:04 GMT -6
Coach Mahonz, I think your missing one important thing. Individual work is HUGE... I got what your saying about attention span. I deal with it at the HS level as well. When you talk about a 15-20 min INDY period you should not be doing the same drill for that entire time. I break up my INDY period 20 mins usually. We rep the same 4-5 drills daily in 5 min increments. Since we are doing the same drills there is NO need to waste time setting up and explaining it to them. Those drills play a key role in what we do in our TEAM periods. I just don't see a need for 75 mins of TEAM. I would think your losing kids attention there just as quickly.... I hope this helps...BTW I am still making mistakes 25 plus years in...just not as many and as big...hahahaha Hammer I am completely with you. What I discovered and it was a mistake and mostly true with the Defense is that if I spent a good amount of time teaching the littlest guys how to tackle....which is important because they really know nothing....then they were pretty useless in the games because they were out of position a lot. So Group and Team exercises became the most important early on. Then as they became comfortable with their assignments....much less Group and Team stuff and back to heavy fundamental periods. The point I was making was that one practice plan does not fit all. The littlest guys really need to know when to be where and why over learning to block and tackle...initially. Eventually...say mid season....this is a non issue. As they get older....non issue altogether. Fundementals are the most important because the players understand the game much better. Its a balancing act. A rather poor tackler that is in the right place at the right time is actually a pretty good tackler. A rather poor blocker that knows his assignments like the back of his hand is actually a pretty good blocker...if that makes sense.
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