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Post by fantom on Mar 29, 2015 17:41:13 GMT -6
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Post by CoachHam55 on Mar 29, 2015 17:54:09 GMT -6
No, you are exactly right.
That's horrendous, immature, and stupid on both accounts, principal and parent.
AJ
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 18:31:14 GMT -6
While I admit it is small minded and knee jerk to be nice about it, we have been going down the everybody gets a trophy road for so long that, at least imo, that we are due for some push back. This smells like a parent who has seen enough of everybody gets a trophy. I am not justifying or condemning it, but I get it. |
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 29, 2015 19:12:26 GMT -6
If it were me, I'd say let the kid where the jacket. It would be a nice gesture by the school and athletic dept. Thinking about the other side of the coin though....women, minorities, those that are disabled, etc have worked so hard for equality, but allowing a student to wear a varsity jacket when he didn't earn it goes against the whole equality thing. If this student was a "normal" kid, I bet the majority of people would say, "he doesn't deserve to wear it and the school was right." The school obviously has a strict policy on these letter jackets, whether it's right or wrong can be debated.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 30, 2015 9:16:21 GMT -6
While I admit it is small minded and knee jerk to be nice about it, we have been going down the everybody gets a trophy road for so long that, at least imo, that we are due for some push back. This smells like a parent who has seen enough of everybody gets a trophy. I am not justifying or condemning it, but I get it. I agree with this. This trend of going out of the way to have these "moments" and awards for special needs kids is getting a little ridiculous IMO. |
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Post by coachrdc on Mar 30, 2015 13:44:25 GMT -6
Maybe I don't completely understand this from what I have read (couldn't pull up the OP's link, but I read this on USA Today), so I'm just trying to keep this all straight;
1. The student-athlete in question is a student with autism and Down's syndrome
2. This student-athlete plays on the school's special needs basketball team
3. This special needs basketball team is not recognized as a varsity sport
4. The student-athlete's parents buy him a varsity Letterman's jacket to celebrate his achievement
5. Because the student-athlete was not on a varsity team, he was asked to remove the Letterman's jacket
Assuming I am correct on all of this, I really don't see an issue with asking him to take it off. This is why I think schools should have to give approval for student-athletes to purchase their jackets. I believe that is the policy at my current school; once you earn the appropriate number of letters, you are given permission to purchase your jacket.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 30, 2015 13:56:49 GMT -6
it is the opossite here
everyone gets a letter for everything...
clubs and band get letters
we GIVE JV LETTERS OUT, when i got here i was like WTF
a small A for JV
a larger one for Varsity... stupid
our school doesnt care, because they charge the kids $20 for it, so they make a tiny bit so the more letters the happier they are
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Post by fbs on Mar 30, 2015 14:13:47 GMT -6
that jacket probably meant more to that kid than anything you can imagine. that makes me sick.
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Letterman?
Mar 30, 2015 15:00:38 GMT -6
via mobile
s73 likes this
Post by ccscoach on Mar 30, 2015 15:00:38 GMT -6
This is insane. Phantom had it right principal is a puss and the parent is delusional.
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Post by wolverine55 on Mar 30, 2015 16:48:02 GMT -6
it is the opossite here everyone gets a letter for everything... clubs and band get letters we GIVE JV LETTERS OUT, when i got here i was like WTF a small A for JV a larger one for Varsity... stupid our school doesnt care, because they charge the kids $20 for it, so they make a tiny bit so the more letters the happier they are I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone in my area wear a letterman's jacket, so I favor giving them out to everyone who "finishes the season in good standing." That just simply means anyone who doesn't quit before the end. To me it's a don't make a mountain out of a mole hill situation. |
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Post by wingtol on Mar 30, 2015 16:48:28 GMT -6
‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Who gives a s**t let the kid wear the jacket. According to the article he has Downs and Autism and people are gonna complain about him wearing a jacket that makes him happy? i mean honest to God the kid has enough going on in his life and some a$$hole wants to complain about a stupid letter jacket? I weep for humanity sometimes. As far as people comparing it to everyone gets a trophy or equality wtf this could be one of the highlights of this kids life I mean like a top 3 event and people even question if it's right or wrong to let me wear the jacket.
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Post by fantom on Mar 30, 2015 17:00:27 GMT -6
it is the opossite here everyone gets a letter for everything... clubs and band get letters we GIVE JV LETTERS OUT, when i got here i was like WTF a small A for JV a larger one for Varsity... stupid our school doesnt care, because they charge the kids $20 for it, so they make a tiny bit so the more letters the happier they are I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone in my area wear a letterman's jacket, so I favor giving them out to everyone who "finishes the season in good standing." That just simply means anyone who doesn't quit before the end. To me it's a don't make a mountain out of a mole hill situation. The first time you wear that jacket on a college campus you're High School Harry. It means a lot to the kid. Let him wear it. |
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Post by huskerhoyahawk on Mar 30, 2015 17:18:44 GMT -6
I teach students with moderate to severe disabilities, including several with Down syndrome and several with autism. I don't understand who would complain about this. Ok, according to the letter of the law the kid doesn't get a varsity letter. How insecure does someone have to be to point that out to the principal?
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Post by bleefb on Mar 30, 2015 18:21:43 GMT -6
At my last school they didn't even give out letters.
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Letterman?
Mar 30, 2015 19:18:48 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by coachrdc on Mar 30, 2015 19:18:48 GMT -6
I completely understand those of you who may be sickened by this. My wife teaches special education, and she specifically loves working with students with autism. I have coached players with autism, those are two guys who taught me alot. My wife falls in the category someone else mentioned earlier; just because a student has a disability like this doesn't mean they should be treated differently. I have been fortunate to have only coached at schools with small roster sizes (35 or less) so we give every kid who finishes the season in good standing a letter. I played in a program that took their letter rules very seriously. It was half the varsity quarters in a season, so if we played 11 games, you had to have 22 quarters (getting on the field for any play counted as a quarter) to get the letter. There were times where, in the above example, kids would only have 20 or 21 quarters, no letter. Generally, coaches were good about keeping track when they broke film down, so if they knew guy was close, they would make sure he got in on a special team or in mop up duty toward the end of the year, but still, they were strict. If this school is that strict on their letters, which the fact that they have a separate special education basketball team tells me that they probably do, then I'm sorry, don't treat this young man any differently. If you want a true compromise, they should add this special education basketball team as a varsity sport. I understand that there are title 9 implications there, but that would make the most sense to me.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Mar 30, 2015 20:52:01 GMT -6
Much of this could have been avoided if the parents had communicated their wishes with the school prior to purchasing the jacket and letter.
We've all seen that when the "suits" get pressed about a political issue, they don't necessarily make the most favorable decisions. But when you bring something to them prior to making a move, whether you like what they tell you or not, it is usually done privately and without fan fare.
The only part I have a problem with is, as the article states, "there is actually no rule explicitly barring a student wearing an “unofficial” varsity letter." The school needs to shore up the language in their athletic guidelines. This is a slippery slope.
I'm not the type to complain about such a matter. I have loved being around the special needs students in every building I've worked in. But as much as it pains me to say this, the parents unknowingly set him up for the humiliation he faced.
Better to ask for forgiveness than permission?...not in this case.
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Post by paydirt18 on Mar 31, 2015 12:31:13 GMT -6
I teach students with moderate to severe disabilities, including several with Down syndrome and several with autism. I don't understand who would complain about this. Ok, according to the letter of the law the kid doesn't get a varsity letter. How insecure does someone have to be to point that out to the principal? I also work with students with disabilities. I couldn't agree more. Every year I have at least 1-2 of kids with moderate disabilities work as team managers for me. This school I am at now, and my previous school did not have Special Olympic programs so I try to provide them an opportunity. Guess what? They all get letters. Shame on the people on this forum board who want to stick their respective chests out and say these kids don't deserve it. Furthermore, the parent who started all this noise in Wichita should be brought out on the carpet right next to the principal. |
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Post by coachtua on Apr 1, 2015 1:09:52 GMT -6
At my alma mater they awarded Frosh letters. All members of the team received a letter if you purchased an ASB card, if you didnt purchase an ASB card you could/had to purchase a letter if you wanted one. I personally thought that was a stupid policy.
As for the article let him keep the jacket.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 5, 2015 17:32:55 GMT -6
It is astonishing to me that this is being equated to everyone gets a trophy. Quite frankly those of you that think it is some egregious violation of athletic accomplishment to allow a special needs kid to wear a varsity jacket have priorities that are out of whack at best. It really bothers you that a special needs kid has a varsity jacket for playing on a special needs team? How do you not see the school and complaining parent as the ones in the wrong?
I seriously cannot find a reason in my mind as to why anyone would be fundamentally opposed to parents recognizing this kid being a part of basketball team that he considers to be equivalent to the varsity program...God forbid the kid show pride in his accomplishments and shame on his parents for wanting him to have a semblance of a normal high school experience. You guys are self important jokes if you seriously have a problem with this kid having a varsity jacket, I don't care about your rationalization, it is pathetic, it is not the end of the world or even a blip on the radar...I can't even imagine entertaining this conversation if I were the principal and would have serious issues with this outcome if I were the varsity coach. Sad. As someone else said, something that was probably in the top 3 moments of this kids life has now become one of the worse but bravo to you folks that justify it to uphold the sanctity of your varsity jackets.
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Post by rpetrie on Apr 5, 2015 19:12:00 GMT -6
Message sent that the value of a piece of cloth is worth more than the integrity of the actions behind the what the letter represents. EFFORT, PERFORMANCE, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, TEAMWORK....shall I continue? I've been in both situations of letters being a strict policy or like it is now where letters are given for finishing a varsity season in good standing. I won't letter a JV call-up unless they are up for a minimum of 4 games. Those are my only two requirements be there for a given period of time & finish in good standing (athletically, academically & behaviorally). I see no greater value than respecting the effort given, especially when it is for a kid that might NEVER achieve meaningful playing time due to his natural physical inabilities. Programs need players to perform in practice and lettering them is their reward. This article makes me sick and IMO completely ruins the value of high school inter-scholastics. Shame on the administration and that f'ed up parent who complained.
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Post by freezeoption on Apr 5, 2015 20:19:43 GMT -6
I'm looking at it both ways, i didn't get my letter till my senior year, worked my tail off for that letter, so to think of someone getting one and not doing all the hard work to earn it degrades the letter, i have more i would add to that, but i don't want to get into the politics, as a old man now, i can see how things like that can make a person's life happier, it is just a jacket and cloth, but, looking at it as a kid, i could see that angle, now a days i don't think a letter is that big of a deal, because everyone and their dog gets one, i've gotten crabbed out before for elementary field day, ive had parents say girls should get their own ribbons and boys theirs, i say they all get a green ribbon for participating but they got to be the top 3 in their class at that event to get a ribbon, doesn't make a difference if they are a boy or girl
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Post by fantom on Apr 6, 2015 11:11:52 GMT -6
I see no problem with having a policy that the kiids in the special ed intramurals would be considered varsity athletes. If anybody considers that getting a letter "the easy way" let him switch places with the Downs Syndrome kid and see how easy it is.
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Post by freezeoption on Apr 6, 2015 13:11:57 GMT -6
are you giving them a letter because they did the requirements or because you feel sorry for them and want to make them happy, again i stated earlier, a lot of politics and emotions, if you want to give a letter for intramurals, great, give it, i've seen schools give letters for art, academics, music, sports and intramurals, that is fine, heck we give a jr high letter, if it makes you feel good great, at one time a letter was a honor, i don't see it that way anymore, i've taught and coached kids with disabilities, i've got family and friends with disabilities, so i know it is not "easy", the question did the kid do the work to earn the letter,
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Post by coachdawhip on Apr 6, 2015 15:25:00 GMT -6
I don't care what if they have a special education team, you don't make that boy take off his jacket.
If those parents and any coach can't see that. Then please don't ever coach my son!
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Post by fantom on Apr 7, 2015 8:51:06 GMT -6
are you giving them a letter because they did the requirements or because you feel sorry for them and want to make them happy, again i stated earlier, a lot of politics and emotions, if you want to give a letter for intramurals, great, give it, i've seen schools give letters for art, academics, music, sports and intramurals, that is fine, heck we give a jr high letter, if it makes you feel good great, at one time a letter was a honor, i don't see it that way anymore, i've taught and coached kids with disabilities, i've got family and friends with disabilities, so i know it is not "easy", the question did the kid do the work to earn the letter, The school makes the rules so if they say that special ed intramurals, not ALL intramurals, are considered varsity then they are. As for the "honor" of lettering, jeez, it's not the Medal of Honor. |
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Post by s73 on Apr 7, 2015 9:43:48 GMT -6
I have stated this before about some of us on the board (including myself) and I think the people on this board who advocate taking the kids jacket away is a vindication of my earlier statements regarding this, but I will make it again. WE TAKE OURSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY!
He's not getting awarded a Medal of Valor, Purple Heart or Nobel Peace Prize. He's getting a jacket, with a letter on it that his mom PURCHASED, if I read the article correctly.
Let me tell you what's not fair, it's not fair that he will probably never live a fully independent lifestyle. It's also not fair that he is probably incapable of pursuing some of his occupational dreams like the vast majority of his classmates. It's not fair that he will probably not marry or have the joy of fatherhood.
Give him the jacket and I think the scales of justice still tilt HEAVILY NOT IN HIS FAVOR. Sorry for the soap box but Geez Louise man, give the kid a break.
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Post by coachmonkey on Apr 7, 2015 9:55:06 GMT -6
I agree. If I were head coach of a sport, I'd probably let him come play for a day or something to "earn" it. You are 100% correct. At the very least the school should have talked to the student and parents in private after the game or at school the next day to come up with a plan of action. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Apr 7, 2015 10:01:06 GMT -6
I completely understand those of you who may be sickened by this. My wife teaches special education, and she specifically loves working with students with autism. I have coached players with autism, those are two guys who taught me alot. My wife falls in the category someone else mentioned earlier; just because a student has a disability like this doesn't mean they should be treated differently. I have been fortunate to have only coached at schools with small roster sizes (35 or less) so we give every kid who finishes the season in good standing a letter. I played in a program that took their letter rules very seriously. It was half the varsity quarters in a season, so if we played 11 games, you had to have 22 quarters (getting on the field for any play counted as a quarter) to get the letter. There were times where, in the above example, kids would only have 20 or 21 quarters, no letter. Generally, coaches were good about keeping track when they broke film down, so if they knew guy was close, they would make sure he got in on a special team or in mop up duty toward the end of the year, but still, they were strict. If this school is that strict on their letters, which the fact that they have a separate special education basketball team tells me that they probably do, then I'm sorry, don't treat this young man any differently. If you want a true compromise, they should add this special education basketball team as a varsity sport. I understand that there are title 9 implications there, but that would make the most sense to me. This is not strict. This would be an exact type of situation. Those kids did not earn their letters. This is playing favorites and skirting "rules." In today's world this coach would be fired at some point because a parent would literally go through film themselves and count and find out their son didn't letter and another did even though neither played the required amount of quarters. I am reminded of a quote I heard about coaching once, "The more rules you have, the more rules you have to enforce." |
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 7, 2015 10:44:29 GMT -6
I have stated this before about some of us on the board (including myself) and I think the people on this board who advocate taking the kids jacket away is a vindication of my earlier statements regarding this, but I will make it again. WE TAKE OURSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY! He's not getting awarded a Medal of Valor, Purple Heart or Nobel Peace Prize. He's getting a jacket, with a letter on it that his mom PURCHASED, if I read the article correctly. Let me tell you what's not fair, it's not fair that he will probably never live a fully independent lifestyle. It's also not fair that he is probably incapable of pursuing some of his occupational dreams like the vast majority of his classmates. It's not fair that he will probably not marry or have the joy of fatherhood. Give him the jacket and I think the scales of justice still tilt HEAVILY NOT IN HIS FAVOR. Sorry for the soap box but Geez Louise man, give the kid a break. So, to borrow my sentiments from another thread, where do you draw the line. I mean, it's very obvious that you don't draw it here, but ultimately if you let one thing slip because of your emotions on the subject, why not let them all slip? I won't get into the special needs situation here necessarily as it's obvious that a lot of you feel pretty strongly about it, but why have rules if you're not going to enforce it because of emotions? |
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Post by s73 on Apr 7, 2015 11:55:08 GMT -6
I have stated this before about some of us on the board (including myself) and I think the people on this board who advocate taking the kids jacket away is a vindication of my earlier statements regarding this, but I will make it again. WE TAKE OURSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY! He's not getting awarded a Medal of Valor, Purple Heart or Nobel Peace Prize. He's getting a jacket, with a letter on it that his mom PURCHASED, if I read the article correctly. Let me tell you what's not fair, it's not fair that he will probably never live a fully independent lifestyle. It's also not fair that he is probably incapable of pursuing some of his occupational dreams like the vast majority of his classmates. It's not fair that he will probably not marry or have the joy of fatherhood. Give him the jacket and I think the scales of justice still tilt HEAVILY NOT IN HIS FAVOR. Sorry for the soap box but Geez Louise man, give the kid a break. So, to borrow my sentiments from another thread, where do you draw the line. I mean, it's very obvious that you don't draw it here, but ultimately if you let one thing slip because of your emotions on the subject, why not let them all slip? I won't get into the special needs situation here necessarily as it's obvious that a lot of you feel pretty strongly about it, but why have rules if you're not going to enforce it because of emotions? At the risk of sounding facetious (not my intent) I think you draw the line at common sense. I have a few thoughts on what that would entail and hopefully I don't become too preachy. First, if a parent were to come to me in this situation and say, "How come this kid gets a letter and not mine" I would say that I was recognizing this particular child for achieving the highest level of athletic accomplishment that we have to offer this young man and I don't feel he should be penalized for our inability to offer him something more. If the parent still had a problem with it, I would tell them to "bark up the ladder" to our admin. After the many times I have read people on this board hammer admin for being over paid and under worked I would happily put the ball in my admin's court and let them EARN THEIR MONEY! If they want to over rule me and pick on the Down's kid, go ahead. You tell him he can't have his letter. You be the one to end up on National television. Earn your bloated salary my friend. If they want to turn around and give out an extra letter to avoid controversy, then again, that personally does not bother ME. I am confident my program will survive. My current school has a quarters played rule for varsity letters. I told my AD that I did not agree w/ this rule (I recognize not all will agree w/ me here, but I am content w/ my policy) b/c we have all been associated with or have listened to a coach say at a banquet, clinic or some place that non starters are still an integral part of the team. As a result, I told my AD that I wanted to award a varsity letter to all seniors who played 4 years for our program and finished in good standing as I believe that it's even harder to come to practice very single day knowing you will likely not play on Friday nights. If a kid can still do this and conduct himself with class, I don't believe my program will suffer for him receiving a letter. My AD agreed and I have done this ever since. In fact, 2 seasons ago I had a kid who was smaller than "Rudy" with all the heart show up every single day and give me EVERY SINGLE FIBER at EVERY PRACTICE. I could not look myself in the mirror if I had told him he did not earn a $10 piece of cloth. Especially since this young man has gone on to enlist in the marines and serve our country. He earned the letter. Furthermore, he was a BETTER representation of our program off the field than many of my starters were. Straight up clean kid and all around good dude. I do not agree with the every kid gets a trophy mentality, but......I would rather recognize too many than too few. I don't believe that a couple of extra varsity letters will ruin anyone's program. If that's the only reason some kid sticks it out for 4 years day in and day out, then he probably needs to have it more than I need to keep it. Sorry for the long winded response but this is my true feelings on the matter. |
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