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Post by nltdiego on Mar 25, 2015 6:49:53 GMT -6
Coaches,
I have coached many players who are lucky enough to play college football. It seems to b a trend they have a munch worse year than then their junior year, most likely already know they are lucky enough to play at college level.
However, how do you deal with their egos? We have a player who could get a scholarship ONLY if he has a great senior year. Based on the off season, his weight room numbers got have stayed the same and his teammates didnt even vote for him to become a rack leader, which shows they dont respect him.
He thinks that no matter what he is playing college football next year regardless of the little things. Have had multiple conversations with him where its not even worth his time.
Have any coaches dealt with this before? And sad thing is potentially he is a d one bound player.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 25, 2015 6:55:59 GMT -6
Potential means you ain't worth a chyt yet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 7:26:21 GMT -6
Potential is the one of the worst words in the English language...
Duece
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Post by Coach Bennett on Mar 25, 2015 7:27:58 GMT -6
I reminded one of our players of a first team all state qb we had (we are a small school) and how he was moved to a different position at a d3 school.
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Post by funkfriss on Mar 25, 2015 7:45:19 GMT -6
Agree with @dcohio.
I'll add that you can try to explain that when he gets to D1 everybody is at least as good as he is. Better get ready now or be left in the dust next year.
Some kids you can't reach though. I tell kids all the time, the playgrounds are filled with players more gifted than Michael and Kobe. Great happens when gifted and work come together.
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Post by nltdiego on Mar 25, 2015 7:57:20 GMT -6
I guess that's my question.... What lesson do I teach him? The one thing we as hc control is playing time.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 8:11:05 GMT -6
I guess that's my question.... What lesson do I teach him? The one thing we as hc control is playing time. Is he violating team rules? Breaking the law? Not getting it done in the classroom? A cancer on the team who is encouraging other players to defy the coaches? If he isn't doing any of those things, I don't think you are justified in taking his playing time away simply because he is not developing into the player that you think he should be. As long as he is meeting the minimum standards you set for being on the team, if he is the best player at his position, he should play. If there is someone better than him, then you play that kid instead. I don't think there really is a "lesson" to be learned here. You have given this player every opportunity to maximize his potential and have done your best to encourage him. At this point, it's on him. That old saying about leading a horse to water seems to be appropriate...
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Post by ksmitty79 on Mar 25, 2015 8:46:38 GMT -6
Egotistical College Bound players can be a big pain the butt! Reality will kick them right in the face the first day they report to camp. As a coach you have done your job. The Ball in his court!!! We always try to relate things around our program to the real world. "If I want a paycheck I must first work for it. If I don't put in the work I will not get a paycheck and will be fired" Put him in your shoes. How open is the line of communication with his parents? If they make excuses...well you know where he got it from
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Post by fbs on Mar 25, 2015 9:09:06 GMT -6
had one recently... in fact he enrolled early at a major SEC school. he wasn't doing what he was supposed to and he didn't start one game for us. spent the entire year as a backup. honestly the kid that played in front of him was a better football player. he didn't have the measurables and combine numbers the d1 kid had but he was a better hs football player. daddy was not pleased, which was pretty funny actually.
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Post by bigm0073 on Mar 25, 2015 9:27:07 GMT -6
I would think over 95% of the D1 scholarship offers are out now... Highly doubt he is division 1 if he does not have an offer now going into his senior.. Why does he not have at least a 1aa offer...
My Division 1a guys had offers by now..
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Post by brophy on Mar 25, 2015 9:35:49 GMT -6
Most of these guys get a wake up call after competing in large regional combines or actually visiting DI spring practices.
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Post by mhcoach on Mar 25, 2015 9:35:53 GMT -6
We are fortunate to have players who will play college football every year. We are also lucky enough to have our players who have graduated come back & visit every year. They make it easy for us to deal with players understand just how much work is involved with playing at the next level. It has become a tradition for our guys to come back & inspire the next team. Nothing gets the point across faster than a player they all can watch on a Saturday come back & explain how much work needs to be done.
"Oh our Spring Break work out starts with 16 110's", then we really get started" This conversation happened 2 days before our Spring Break when the colleges were on Break. There was our rising seniors running 110's with our LB from 2 years ago. He was telling our guys enjoy being here & put the work in.
Joe
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Post by scottbailey on Mar 25, 2015 10:03:45 GMT -6
I have had the most success in this area by explaining to the player that I will not lie for him to a college coach, no exceptions. Then I ask them what exactly they want me to be able to say about them to the college coaches. If they want me to say positive things that help their recruitment, then they need to show me those things on a daily basis or the college coach is going to hear the opposite. This also goes for their parents. Many times the parents need to know that I am not going to lie for them maybe even more so than the kids need to hear it. If they are hard to work with at the high school level it isn't going to get any better at the college level and the college coaches need to know it.
Scott Bailey Lamar HS Lamar, Missouri
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 25, 2015 10:10:40 GMT -6
We had two of these guys transfer out and go to another school. When they announced it...(which they were trying to do it Lebron style) the weight room cheered like they won a state title.
Addition by subtraction.
These guys did us a favor. For that...I thank them.
The OP's situation is EXACTLY what we were dealing with. The guys "were" D1 guys...in their mind. And if you told them they weren't...you were a "hater". Just look at what their parents spewed on social media.
In the end...it's not our problem now...and will really help us move forward.
Currently...my favorite saying right now...
"The Best Teams are made up of a bunch of nobodies who love Everybody and Serve Anybody and Don’t care about being a Somebody "
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Post by bigm0073 on Mar 25, 2015 10:21:26 GMT -6
Coach - Love that quote
"The Best Teams are made up of a bunch of nobodies who love Everybody and Serve Anybody and Don’t care about being a Somebody
Consider it stolen.. lol
I also look at Division I football players like shopping at Gucci or Tiffany's.. etc..
"If you have to ask about the price... You can not afford it"...
If you "Could/might be" division 1... You really are not..
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 25, 2015 10:26:06 GMT -6
But BigM...they paid for 17 camps. And a coach told them they were one of the top 50 players in the country.
It's hard for me to go up to this kid and say..."I don't care what (insert former NFL player's name) says he thinks you are...you're not in the top 10 of our league". Because then...he believes (insert former NFL player's name) more than the coaches at his own school.
And when that happens...it becomes lame.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 10:37:43 GMT -6
Well...honestly, I think you hold him to a higher standard on that playing time. Be more demanding of him. I mean I have 6 linebackers who can play MIKE, why does one play over the others? Sometimes playing the position isn't enough for some kids, it's important that they play it the way THEY are capable of. With big time guys I think the biggest thing for us as coaches to do is to push the kids to reach THEIR ability and to maintain that level until it just becomes how they play. I know I've seen quite a few great players who have been good-great college players who weren't really coached in high school. If you are at a school where you're going to have some D1 college guys, I think it's a good idea for you as a coach to work a few big school college camps if you can, where they are going to bring in their dudes for a day of camp and just see how some of those kids work, how they have been coached or how they don't work or haven't been coached and you can definitely see it, it's obvious. When you have a 4 star linebacker with 30 offers on the table and he doesn't know same shoulder same leg into contact...WHO THE PHUK has been coaching this kid? The truth is, they haven't been coaching him. They have just lined him up and let him be an athlete and IMO, those are the worst coaches because they did NOTHING to teach this kid and have really retarded his development for the next level. AND on the playing time issue - I think it's important that even though you'd probably never bench that kid, you have to make him think or feel like he is fighting for his spot everyday. Getting the starting spot is one thing, keeping it is another. He needs to understand that dynamic because whatever college he goes to they are going to keep recruiting players as good or better than him. We all know that, but HE needs to know that. If you have 6 kids who can all play middle linebacker equally well, then you will have to rely on some other standard to decide which kid gets to play the position. But that's not what the OP said the issue was. The impression I got was that this kid was a top player and, while not a "bad" kid, he just wasn't putting in the best effort he could. But he was still clearly the best player at his position. Given those conditions, that kid is going to play for me. And of course it is important to encourage competition and light fires under people. But, in some cases (and I am assuming this is one of those cases) you can use napalm but the fire is never going to be hot enough because that kid just showing up and going through the motions is still going to be better than everyone else is at their best. How to convince that kid that he needs to work harder despite his natural ability? Maybe encourage him to attend a camp at a national power. Elite combines are good, too. Sometimes when a kid sees how athletic really elite players are, that is what will convince them that their natural ability will only get them so far. Coaching in mostly small, rural schools, I have seen the "big fish, small bowl" phenomenon numerous times. Sometimes, the best way to get a kid like that to realize they are wasting their potential is to put them in a deeper tank that has bigger fish with sharper teeth!
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Post by olcoach53 on Mar 25, 2015 11:02:18 GMT -6
I would much rather have a 5'10 185 pound grinder playing than a 6'4 235 pounder who looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. Unfortunately sometimes the only thing that is seen is the size and the eyeball test.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 25, 2015 11:08:29 GMT -6
Well...honestly, I think you hold him to a higher standard on that playing time. Be more demanding of him. I mean I have 6 linebackers who can play MIKE, why does one play over the others? Sometimes playing the position isn't enough for some kids, it's important that they play it the way THEY are capable of. With big time guys I think the biggest thing for us as coaches to do is to push the kids to reach THEIR ability and to maintain that level until it just becomes how they play. I know I've seen quite a few great players who have been good-great college players who weren't really coached in high school. If you are at a school where you're going to have some D1 college guys, I think it's a good idea for you as a coach to work a few big school college camps if you can, where they are going to bring in their dudes for a day of camp and just see how some of those kids work, how they have been coached or how they don't work or haven't been coached and you can definitely see it, it's obvious. When you have a 4 star linebacker with 30 offers on the table and he doesn't know same shoulder same leg into contact...WHO THE PHUK has been coaching this kid? The truth is, they haven't been coaching him. They have just lined him up and let him be an athlete and IMO, those are the worst coaches because they did NOTHING to teach this kid and have really retarded his development for the next level. AND on the playing time issue - I think it's important that even though you'd probably never bench that kid, you have to make him think or feel like he is fighting for his spot everyday. Getting the starting spot is one thing, keeping it is another. He needs to understand that dynamic because whatever college he goes to they are going to keep recruiting players as good or better than him. We all know that, but HE needs to know that. If you have 6 kids who can all play middle linebacker equally well, then you will have to rely on some other standard to decide which kid gets to play the position. But that's not what the OP said the issue was. The impression I got was that this kid was a top player and, while not a "bad" kid, he just wasn't putting in the best effort he could. But he was still clearly the best player at his position. Given those conditions, that kid is going to play for me. And of course it is important to encourage competition and light fires under people. But, in some cases (and I am assuming this is one of those cases) you can use napalm but the fire is never going to be hot enough because that kid just showing up and going through the motions is still going to be better than everyone else is at their best. How to convince that kid that he needs to work harder despite his natural ability? Maybe encourage him to attend a camp at a national power. Elite combines are good, too. Sometimes when a kid sees how athletic really elite players are, that is what will convince them that their natural ability will only get them so far. Coaching in mostly small, rural schools, I have seen the "big fish, small bowl" phenomenon numerous times. Sometimes, the best way to get a kid like that to realize they are wasting their potential is to put them in a deeper tank that has bigger fish with sharper teeth! I agree with DC - you're best move as a coach is to hold that kid accountable for the performance he is capable of, not his performance relative to the guy next to him who isn't capable of doing as much. It might even mean sitting his butt on the bench, or even, gasp, losing a game. And you do that for two reasons - 1. Because that is the best way to try to make that kid a better performer and person for the rest of his life, which you could argue is your actual job; and 2. Because it's the best way to get the best out of that kid for the rest of the season, which helps your team have a chance to be the best team it can be. I was a version of that kid in #1, and it worked. I watched #2 NOT happen this year on my son's HS team, where they never held individual kids accountable for their effort and performance in a meaningful way. While they won their league, they lost in the playoffs when they were the most talented team in their bracket by quite a bit. Had the coaches been willing to bench kids early in the season when they as individuals slacked off, they would have likely won a state title.
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Post by dytmook on Mar 25, 2015 11:22:09 GMT -6
Our best two teams were with seniors with no major offers. The best place one of those kids played was a d2 and an Ivy. The next best year the best senior went d3.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 11:48:06 GMT -6
If you have 6 kids who can all play middle linebacker equally well, then you will have to rely on some other standard to decide which kid gets to play the position. But that's not what the OP said the issue was. The impression I got was that this kid was a top player and, while not a "bad" kid, he just wasn't putting in the best effort he could. But he was still clearly the best player at his position. Given those conditions, that kid is going to play for me. And of course it is important to encourage competition and light fires under people. But, in some cases (and I am assuming this is one of those cases) you can use napalm but the fire is never going to be hot enough because that kid just showing up and going through the motions is still going to be better than everyone else is at their best. How to convince that kid that he needs to work harder despite his natural ability? Maybe encourage him to attend a camp at a national power. Elite combines are good, too. Sometimes when a kid sees how athletic really elite players are, that is what will convince them that their natural ability will only get them so far. Coaching in mostly small, rural schools, I have seen the "big fish, small bowl" phenomenon numerous times. Sometimes, the best way to get a kid like that to realize they are wasting their potential is to put them in a deeper tank that has bigger fish with sharper teeth! I agree with DC - you're best move as a coach is to hold that kid accountable for the performance he is capable of, not his performance relative to the guy next to him who isn't capable of doing as much. It might even mean sitting his butt on the bench, or even, gasp, losing a game. And you do that for two reasons - 1. Because that is the best way to try to make that kid a better performer and person for the rest of his life, which you could argue is your actual job; and 2. Because it's the best way to get the best out of that kid for the rest of the season, which helps your team have a chance to be the best team it can be. I was a version of that kid in #1, and it worked. I watched #2 NOT happen this year on my son's HS team, where they never held individual kids accountable for their effort and performance in a meaningful way. While they won their league, they lost in the playoffs when they were the most talented team in their bracket by quite a bit. Had the coaches been willing to bench kids early in the season when they as individuals slacked off, they would have likely won a state title. I think that is a very slippery slope you are going down. If a kid is clearly the best player at his position, how do you objectively evaluate whether or not he is "working up" to his potential? Again...I don't think we are talking about a kid who is an obvious malcontent or a cancer who is destroying team chemistry. Could this kid work harder? Sure. But you are really going to bench him and play a kid who is not as good simply because you have some subjective feelings that the kid isn't trying hard enough? With the scenario you posted, how can you prove that benching kids early in the year would have resulted in a likely state championship? How is that even quantifiable? In single elimination high school football playoffs, the "best" team (the team with the most talented players) doesn't always win. I just have a hard time believing that the difference between a team winning a state title and getting knocked out in the playoffs is the fact that the coaches didn't bench players earlier in the season. Sounds like fanspeak to me.
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Post by fantom on Mar 25, 2015 12:04:19 GMT -6
I agree with DC - you're best move as a coach is to hold that kid accountable for the performance he is capable of, not his performance relative to the guy next to him who isn't capable of doing as much. It might even mean sitting his butt on the bench, or even, gasp, losing a game. And you do that for two reasons - 1. Because that is the best way to try to make that kid a better performer and person for the rest of his life, which you could argue is your actual job; and 2. Because it's the best way to get the best out of that kid for the rest of the season, which helps your team have a chance to be the best team it can be. I was a version of that kid in #1, and it worked. I watched #2 NOT happen this year on my son's HS team, where they never held individual kids accountable for their effort and performance in a meaningful way. While they won their league, they lost in the playoffs when they were the most talented team in their bracket by quite a bit. Had the coaches been willing to bench kids early in the season when they as individuals slacked off, they would have likely won a state title. I think that is a very slippery slope you are going down. If a kid is clearly the best player at his position, how do you objectively evaluate whether or not he is "working up" to his potential? Again...I don't think we are talking about a kid who is an obvious malcontent or a cancer who is destroying team chemistry. Could this kid work harder? Sure. But you are really going to bench him and play a kid who is not as good simply because you have some subjective feelings that the kid isn't trying hard enough? With the scenario you posted, how can you prove that benching kids early in the year would have resulted in a likely state championship? How is that even quantifiable? In single elimination high school football playoffs, the "best" team (the team with the most talented players) doesn't always win. I just have a hard time believing that the difference between a team winning a state title and getting knocked out in the playoffs is the fact that the coaches didn't bench players earlier in the season. Sounds like fanspeak to me. Assuming that he's not dogging it at practice and that he's not breaking rules I don't see the sense of hurting the team by benching a kid who's clearly the best player at his position. If he's not quite performing at what I perceive to be his capabilities I may be mad at him but I'm not mad at me or the other players on the team.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 12:45:42 GMT -6
I think that is a very slippery slope you are going down. If a kid is clearly the best player at his position, how do you objectively evaluate whether or not he is "working up" to his potential? Again...I don't think we are talking about a kid who is an obvious malcontent or a cancer who is destroying team chemistry. Could this kid work harder? Sure. But you are really going to bench him and play a kid who is not as good simply because you have some subjective feelings that the kid isn't trying hard enough? With the scenario you posted, how can you prove that benching kids early in the year would have resulted in a likely state championship? How is that even quantifiable? In single elimination high school football playoffs, the "best" team (the team with the most talented players) doesn't always win. I just have a hard time believing that the difference between a team winning a state title and getting knocked out in the playoffs is the fact that the coaches didn't bench players earlier in the season. Sounds like fanspeak to me. Assuming that he's not dogging it at practice and that he's not breaking rules I don't see the sense of hurting the team by benching a kid who's clearly the best player at his position. If he's not quite performing at what I perceive to be his capabilities I may be mad at him but I'm not mad at me or the other players on the team. Yeah...completely agree with you. I think that is exactly how I would feel about it.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 12:53:42 GMT -6
19delta that's kind of my point. Of course that kid is going to play, he's got to play and he knows it. But I think you can change his thinking/work ethic without benching him in a game. I mean, we are in March right now, not August. Now is the time to create the "earning" environment. Actually I think this area is one of my biggest strengths as a coach. When our defense got together and did the 2 positive/1 negative team building exercise one of the positive comments they made about me was "you have no favorites, everyone is equal". For me they really are but all of that stems from my relationship with them and the consistency of that. I feel like this can and should be handled in practice or in the weight room, especially during camp. Because there is going to come a time during camp where a top player is not playing or working to the level expected of him and I am going to get on him and he is going to handle it a few different ways but many of those ways may get the entire defense doing up/downs, may even end up getting him sent home from practice. Now I'm not a tyrant, I will follow up and tell him I love him and all that stuff but he needs to understand that I am not really "asking". The bi-product of that is when you as a coach call out the "big dog" the rest of the kids know he's the big dog and if you will send him home, you definitely won't hesitate to send them. Yes I know we need him, yes I know it's important that he be there but honestly I personally would rather lose with a bunch of hard working kids who are giving everything they've got than to win with a bunch lazy athletic guys who can win by playing half@ssed. Last year our starting MIKE backer: 6'2" 225 - Hardest working kid in the weightroom. Team leader. Great kid. But I could not for the life of me get him to come down hill and be aggressive at linebacker. He wanted to stay at LB depth and just run side to side, we talked about it, I b!tched about, we practiced it, but still no change. Well, he had a thigh bruise and didn't play in our last scrimmage and I played another kid at MIKE and I blitzed him almost constantly because he was little (5'8") and just couldn't get off blocks. Going into game 1's practice the backup took all the first reps with the #1 defense and the 6'2" kid subbed in. We get all the way to Thursday and the 6'2" kid comes up to me after practice and says "is Sam starting tomorrow night?" I said "yes." He said "why?" I said "well, he scrimmaged better than you did. In your scrimmage you had a few tackles, you still weren't decisive on your reads, and you weren't aggressive. He was in the last scrimmage." The look on his face was priceless. I don't think he had ever felt that level of anger before. He explodes "that's phukin bullchit, I didn't bust my F'in @$$ for 2 MF'in years to watch my senior year." I replied "then I suggest you start being more aggressive, reading your key and doing what you're supposed to do and trusting your teammates to do their job or that is EXACTLY what is going to happen." He walked away and I chuckled to myself because I knew right then that he was going to have a great year. The other kid started, played 1 series and then I put the 6'2" kid in...guess what...he read his keys, he was fast, decisive, down hill and very aggressive. Played great. Behind the scenes - you don't think every kid on our team knew he didn't start? and if I won't start him...right? Heck, the LB I had a few years ago who just finished up at Alabama...I threw him out of practice at least once a year and I benched him in a game. If he didn't learn how to handle a little adversity from me in high school how in the heck could he have ever played for Saban without going on suicide watch? I think you've got to hold them to it or else you are just hurting that kid in the future. So what happened to the 5'8" kid?
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Post by spartandefense on Mar 25, 2015 12:59:53 GMT -6
Personal Story:
We had kid two years ago, great athlete, moderate skill. Cannot change direction that well, and cannot track the football in the air. Ran a 10.95 hundred meters. All of 6'3, big frame. His dad played D1 ball at 275lbs. His jr yr he starts at corner gets burned multiple times and isn't even a starter. I tell him his SR year you are a great athlete I am going to move you to rush end in the 4-2-5, you have no gap responsibility just make plays. Our league is 75% Run btw and no one throws the ball.
He goes to the Oregon camp, and one guy ONE GUY - who isn't a coach, tells him he would make a great press corner with his height. Sure enough he spends entire summer with personal trainer doing CB drills. His dad calls the HC weekly telling him we are screwing him by not playing him at corner blah blah. We base out of robber coverage and he would be a deep half player if he was corner. We don't even run a ton of press man.
We get to game 1. My family is in the stands. They happen to be sitting next to his dad who is telling everyone within ear shot that I (the DC) am screwing his son and he should be playing corner not DE.
That game he played little over a half because we blew them out.
Stats (1 half): 5 tackles, 3 TFL, 2 hurries, 2 sacks, and 1 forced fumble.
He now at a D1 school and he is not playing corner.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 25, 2015 13:30:03 GMT -6
I think that is a very slippery slope you are going down. If a kid is clearly the best player at his position, how do you objectively evaluate whether or not he is "working up" to his potential? Again...I don't think we are talking about a kid who is an obvious malcontent or a cancer who is destroying team chemistry. Could this kid work harder? Sure. But you are really going to bench him and play a kid who is not as good simply because you have some subjective feelings that the kid isn't trying hard enough? With the scenario you posted, how can you prove that benching kids early in the year would have resulted in a likely state championship? How is that even quantifiable? In single elimination high school football playoffs, the "best" team (the team with the most talented players) doesn't always win. I just have a hard time believing that the difference between a team winning a state title and getting knocked out in the playoffs is the fact that the coaches didn't bench players earlier in the season. Sounds like fanspeak to me. Assuming that he's not dogging it at practice and that he's not breaking rules I don't see the sense of hurting the team by benching a kid who's clearly the best player at his position. If he's not quite performing at what I perceive to be his capabilities I may be mad at him but I'm not mad at me or the other players on the team. Don't take what I said too far - it's all about the circumstances. Maybe the right answer is to sit out a drill. Or a scrimmage. Or a single play. Maybe a series. Who knows? It depends on what the kid is (isn't) doing. Is it "just" performance? Or is it attitude? Every situation is different. All I'm saying is that you don't turn a blind eye to those issues, you address them head on and deal with them. And IMO, if you believe the kid can do better, it is your job as a coach to figure out how to get that out of him, not just keep running him out there while nothing else you do is working. If you do that, you're just condoning whatever behavior the kid is engaging in. But again, there are limits, and circumstances, each one is different. 19delta - uh, unless you have some quantifiable criteria for who starts, like the guy who starts is the guy who completes more passes in this drill, or runs the fastest 40, or lifts the most, just about every starting decision you make is pretty much subjective. Might be a no-brainer that seems objective, but there is still a purely subjective component involved. I'm pretty sure you don't line your kids up and say first guy across the 40 starts at slot this week. Well, you might, but I would imagine that would be part of a bigger picture, not your sole criteria. As for the state title - again, it's all opinion. I could be wrong. There were some fairly unique circumstances that played out with my son's team over a period of 3 years that made me say that. But it's not really important, and certainly not specifically what this thread is about - my point is merely that character can be just as important to winning games as talent. Not more important, and not in lieu of, but nevertheless a critical element.
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Post by fantom on Mar 25, 2015 13:43:51 GMT -6
Assuming that he's not dogging it at practice and that he's not breaking rules I don't see the sense of hurting the team by benching a kid who's clearly the best player at his position. If he's not quite performing at what I perceive to be his capabilities I may be mad at him but I'm not mad at me or the other players on the team. Don't take what I said too far - it's all about the circumstances. Maybe the right answer is to sit out a drill. Or a scrimmage. Or a single play. Maybe a series. Who knows? It depends on what the kid is (isn't) doing. Is it "just" performance? Or is it attitude? Every situation is different. All I'm saying is that you don't turn a blind eye to those issues, you address them head on and deal with them. And IMO, if you believe the kid can do better, it is your job as a coach to figure out how to get that out of him, not just keep running him out there while nothing else you do is working. If you do that, you're just condoning whatever behavior the kid is engaging in. But again, there are limits, and circumstances, each one is different. How about if he's not performing up to what he's capable of, in my opinion, but is still clearly better than his backup? I'm talking about his performance on the field, not his potential as an athlete. I have a guy who isn't overtly loafing at practice, doesn't break any rules, is a better football player at his position than anybody else, but isn't performing as well as the coaches think that he should. Do I bench him?
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 25, 2015 13:51:26 GMT -6
We played a kid who had the highest SPARQ score in the COUNTRY one year. We played his team in the playoffs. Hadn't seen film on the team all year. Looked at film.
Couldn't find the kid. And yes...he was playing. All I saw was a kid getting his arse kicked and running around like a meat head. He had a D1 offer and went there. And "played". I don't he ever played though.
Don't know what this kid was told...but he definitely was a specimen. Just couldn't do with much with what he had.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 25, 2015 14:02:06 GMT -6
19delta - uh, unless you have some quantifiable criteria for who starts, like the guy who starts is the guy who completes more passes in this drill, or runs the fastest 40, or lifts the most, just about every starting decision you make is pretty much subjective. Might be a no-brainer that seems objective, but there is still a purely subjective component involved. I'm pretty sure you don't line your kids up and say first guy across the 40 starts at slot this week. Well, you might, but I would imagine that would be part of a bigger picture, not your sole criteria. The "quantifiable criteria" about who starts is easy in most cases...either a kid is the best player at his position or he isn't. Either he is productive or he isn't as productive as other kids at that position. Now, when you have several kids who are equally good, then other subjective criteria must be weighed. But, the most basic job of a football coach is to evaluate who the best player at each position is. There really isn't anything subjective about that. It should be obvious.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 25, 2015 14:03:09 GMT -6
Don't take what I said too far - it's all about the circumstances. Maybe the right answer is to sit out a drill. Or a scrimmage. Or a single play. Maybe a series. Who knows? It depends on what the kid is (isn't) doing. Is it "just" performance? Or is it attitude? Every situation is different. All I'm saying is that you don't turn a blind eye to those issues, you address them head on and deal with them. And IMO, if you believe the kid can do better, it is your job as a coach to figure out how to get that out of him, not just keep running him out there while nothing else you do is working. If you do that, you're just condoning whatever behavior the kid is engaging in. But again, there are limits, and circumstances, each one is different. How about if he's not performing up to what he's capable of, in my opinion, but is still clearly better than his backup? I'm talking about his performance on the field, not his potential as an athlete. I have a guy who isn't overtly loafing at practice, doesn't break any rules, is a better football player at his position than anybody else, but isn't performing as well as the coaches think that he should. Do I bench him? Great example, and even with details tough to say. But, here, I would tend to agree with your point that you play him. I THOUGHT, and could be wrong, that the OP was alluding to some lacking in effort and attitude. That's also why I put a "-" around "just" performance. I will modify my response to be about effort. Is the kid giving you right right effort? A lack of performance can be the result of a lot of things that don't warrant punishment - could be a lack of confidence for example, where punishment would likely backfire and make it worse. What I was thinking in my response is about more overt behavior. If a kid blows assignments repeatedly without any indication he gives a sh*t about it (and even that bears further scrutiny as to why), gives less than 100% effort, isn't paying attention, isn't taking care of business in the classroom, etc. and so forth. THAT'S what I thought we were talking about. Maybe I just misunderstood the OP.
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