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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 22, 2014 9:50:51 GMT -6
Coaches,
Here is the situation. We are going into our second year as a staff in a program that has always been mediocre to awful. The year before our arrival, the team went 5-5 ending their year losing by 60 to the eventual state champs in the playoffs. The 5-5 team had some ok talent, but the coach was smart, saw what was coming, and got out of dodge.
Jump to this past year. We went 1-8, but were competitive in all but 2 games and could have won any of the other 6 we lost.
The culture has been sour. We have a young group, the group that we need to build around being very negative. "If coach so and so were here, we would have won state for sure" blah blah blah.
We have a football class that we use for speed training, and have our lifts after school. The kids whine about it and don't work hard. I know that if you see it happening, you either coach it or tolerate it.
Wondering what kinds of things those of you who have had success in changing culture have done?
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 22, 2014 10:07:26 GMT -6
One thing that helps in changing the culture is just bringing your positive energy as a coach into everything.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 22, 2014 10:09:32 GMT -6
One thing that helps in changing the culture is just bringing your positive energy as a coach into everything. We try to. I think part of the problem is that the staff isn't present. I am there, the HC is there, and the speed/strength coach is there, and that's it. I feel like it's hard to get kids to buy into you if you aren't visible, right? We do bring in that positive energy and the kids just kind of mock it. They think we're crazy for making them do little things like log their lifts because the old HC didn't make them. He also didn't have a real offseason program in place. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 22, 2014 10:58:56 GMT -6
One thing that helps in changing the culture is just bringing your positive energy as a coach into everything. We try to. I think part of the problem is that the staff isn't present. I am there, the HC is there, and the speed/strength coach is there, and that's it. I feel like it's hard to get kids to buy into you if you aren't visible, right? We do bring in that positive energy and the kids just kind of mock it. They think we're crazy for making them do little things like log their lifts because the old HC didn't make them. He also didn't have a real offseason program in place. Allow them more options as to when they lift. Some won't lift for certain coaches. That being said, if you want to get them to play their hearts out for you make it about them. Build them up. They know they suck, they have heard it for years it sounds like. It's easier to blame the coaches though with human egos being so fragile. I recommend reading 3-D coaching and anything by Joe Ehrmann. We have a put up or shut up rule on our team. You are only allowed to say something that puts someone up, if it tears them down then shut up. We run for put downs. It pays off in games when its tight and the other team is screaming at each other and our kids are picking each other up. Make them accountable to each other, not the coaches. You must have a couple guys who want to play football. Start with them. |
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Post by coach2013 on Dec 22, 2014 11:49:09 GMT -6
Coaches, Here is the situation. We are going into our second year as a staff in a program that has always been mediocre to awful. The year before our arrival, the team went 5-5 ending their year losing by 60 to the eventual state champs in the playoffs. The 5-5 team had some ok talent, but the coach was smart, saw what was coming, and got out of dodge. Jump to this past year. We went 1-8, but were competitive in all but 2 games and could have won any of the other 6 we lost. The culture has been sour. We have a young group, the group that we need to build around being very negative. "If coach so and so were here, we would have won state for sure" blah blah blah. We have a football class that we use for speed training, and have our lifts after school. The kids whine about it and don't work hard. I know that if you see it happening, you either coach it or tolerate it. Wondering what kinds of things those of you who have had success in changing culture have done? You have some cancers in your program. A kid speaking out so disrespectfully would be quickly put into his place or removed.
we love our guys unconditionally, we emphasize character and accountability and we will discipline them. we do that FOR THEM not TO THEM and that consistent set of expectations and consequences is what keeps things "right" in the program.
If you tolerate speaking out (coach bashing/player bashing) then you will not have the team chemistry it requires to win.
work ethic, unselfishness, team first, self respect, respect of others, commitment, desire to be a champion- those things are on display and you must set expectations and nail em quickly when they lose focus.
The best advice I ever got = "if you want to change the culture, change the culture"
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 22, 2014 11:53:41 GMT -6
Fortunately, one of our cancers is looking to transfer to a nearby school. He is the best running back in our program and would probably touch the ball 30 times a game and are flexbone offense but wants to go pass block in a spread offense
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 22, 2014 12:43:13 GMT -6
Fortunately, one of our cancers is looking to transfer to a nearby school. He is the best running back in our program and would probably touch the ball 30 times a game and are flexbone offense but wants to go pass block in a spread offense That doesn't matter. Kids want to win. Winning solves a lot of issues. |
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Post by realdawg on Dec 22, 2014 12:52:41 GMT -6
Agreed. Winning cures all ills.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 22, 2014 12:58:01 GMT -6
Fortunately, one of our cancers is looking to transfer to a nearby school. He is the best running back in our program and would probably touch the ball 30 times a game and are flexbone offense but wants to go pass block in a spread offense That doesn't matter. Kids want to win. Winning solves a lot of issues. Sure coach, but I think you have to establish the culture in a program before you can get those W's. Do all of the little things right and the W's generally will take care of themselves. We don't have the best Jimmy's and Joe's, so we need to develop the ones we have. I'm just looking for help to get them to buy in. I like some of your above suggestions a lot and will look at it. Going to pick up some reading over the break too if anybody else has any good suggestions. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 22, 2014 13:13:46 GMT -6
I am pretty hard on the kids. What I try to do is to explain to them why...why we need to work so hard..why I am demanding of you...why we need to pursue etc..I try to create "creative conflict" during practice so maybe games won't be so "hectic"
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Post by blb on Dec 22, 2014 13:24:29 GMT -6
You have had one year with them, and still have those kind of attitudes?
The way you deal with bad attitudes is get rid of the ones with bad attitudes.
Tell them in no uncertain terms to GWTP or you are moving on without them.
As dcohio says - you went 1-8 with them, pretty sure you can do that well without them.
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Post by oriolepower on Dec 22, 2014 13:45:46 GMT -6
When dealing with team culture, every program is different. It sounds like your kids need two main things in your program.
1.Someone that truly knows them, cares about them, and isn't going to leave. If you know them and are committed to them you will know who needs what and who needs to go.
2.They need to see evidence that what they are doing in the weight room and speed training will translate to success. I know a program that is extremely successful and doesn't do a strength program. I don't know how they do it but they don't lift. I also know a lot of bad programs that lift hard but don't do things right. Their kids are big, muscle bound, and slow.
I'll also add that kids aren't stupid. Even in a bad year, they'll know if they should trust a coach or not. They'll see past the rhetoric and make the decision if this is a coach that can win or is all talk. Kids also always watch to see how situations are handled. That determines team culture.
If you want good books to read, Jeff Janssen and Greg Dale have some tremendous books on building a team culture.
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 23, 2014 19:01:43 GMT -6
Hey rs627, phyck all that get to truly know them/5D coaching/Joe Ehrmann/kumbya crap. That crap might work when kids want to work but don't know how to go about it. You've got a stall full of horse hockey and you've got to figure out if it's going to be maggot food or grow roses.
When they show up in the weight room, put up on the board what you want to get accomplished today. Explain/demonstrate how you want it done. Ask if there are any questions. Then start blowing the whistle.
If they don't do exactly to the letter what you outlined at the beginning of class, stop the whole show and repeat the directions and steps from the start of class. Then tell them you won't explain it again. When they screw it up again, spend the rest of the class time inflicting as much physical and mental pain as possible to their arse. Or at the very least give them a painful consequence and then go back to work.
When the class time is over, gently but firmly explain that this is how things will be from here on out. The object of the first month/until it gets fixed isn't to increase bench/squat/power clean/etc...., it's to fix that muscle inside the chest.
Repeat as needed.
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Post by s73 on Dec 23, 2014 20:27:52 GMT -6
Coaches, Here is the situation. We are going into our second year as a staff in a program that has always been mediocre to awful. The year before our arrival, the team went 5-5 ending their year losing by 60 to the eventual state champs in the playoffs. The 5-5 team had some ok talent, but the coach was smart, saw what was coming, and got out of dodge. Jump to this past year. We went 1-8, but were competitive in all but 2 games and could have won any of the other 6 we lost. The culture has been sour. We have a young group, the group that we need to build around being very negative. "If coach so and so were here, we would have won state for sure" blah blah blah. We have a football class that we use for speed training, and have our lifts after school. The kids whine about it and don't work hard. I know that if you see it happening, you either coach it or tolerate it. Wondering what kinds of things those of you who have had success in changing culture have done? I've always been a big believer in the idea that how YOU CARRY YOURSELF is the #1 precursor to how people will respond to you. I know I'm not Vince Lombardi and I know I have some kids who don't like me, but I can tell you one thing, they know who's in charge and they know what the boundaries are. If they are mocking you like you said in another post, then I would say IMO, you guys need to bring the hammer NOW! My guys just know that unless it's out of mutual fun, that just ain't happening. I definitely don't have all the answers, but this one's easy. The calfs need to learn REAL QUICK who the bulls are! JMO. |
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Post by otterbox on Dec 24, 2014 6:24:04 GMT -6
I am currently doing this at a program I am at. I had a team meeting at the end of the season for a week before we even touched a weight. I wanted to get their mindset right and lay the foundation for a successful offseason. I asked questions like why did we have a 1-9 season and what are we going to do differently. Had them set goals, informed them of policies going forward, and made them sign a contract. Offseason set up is 1 hour before school powerlifting, character building (10 min), and mats/agilities/springs for 30 minutes. We have some type of mental toughness segment or competition everyday built in. We also have rewards like groups that win the week will get to wear special workout gear....must have incentives along the way. Coaches are expected to have a whistle and blow it if a kids is not following instruction to the fine details. We tie it in to football penalties and early on explain how that contributed to the past season. We will do 5-15 squat jumps yelling win on every rep. Want the kids to remind themselves on every rep why we are doing what we are doing. We might do 100-200 squat jumps a day the first 2 weeks. Kids WILL start meeting the expectations set. I let the kids vote 6 group leaders during the team meetings, I have the final say who becomes one, but most of the time I only make 1 change. I have meetings every Monday to give them the leadership expectation of the week, give them assignments to carry out during workouts, and reflect on the past week. We have no leaders, so I am trying to build our best athletes into one. So far 21 of 92 returners from 10th and 11th graders have quit. We might have been counting on 1 or 2 of them for next year. We are fine with this because these kids were usually the ones who were late or skip. The culture is changing but it is a 2 year process in my opinion. We will stay the course and KNOW at the end of offseason, the kids that stuck it out will be the kids we can count on!!! Coaches working offseason must be high energy and upbeat. Coaches must keep a great balance or holding kids accountable, but also find little victories to praise the kids. At the end of each workout, I have each coach give their assessment of how the day went, what we have to do better, and find a kid or group to praise if they can. Like I said, culture takes time and currently measuring progress by inches some days and steps others!
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Post by coach2013 on Dec 25, 2014 17:55:55 GMT -6
Fortunately, one of our cancers is looking to transfer to a nearby school. He is the best running back in our program and would probably touch the ball 30 times a game and are flexbone offense but wants to go pass block in a spread offense Let him go |
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 25, 2014 18:34:52 GMT -6
Fortunately, one of our cancers is looking to transfer to a nearby school. He is the best running back in our program and would probably touch the ball 30 times a game and are flexbone offense but wants to go pass block in a spread offense Let him go That's my inclination. Head coach is fighting to keep him. Not really sure why. Yes, he's a great athlete. Isn't bought into what we're doing though. Yeah, he's good, but if he transfers he won't see the field. Also, he'll lose a year of eligibility. Have at it I guess. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 25, 2014 21:08:34 GMT -6
That's my inclination. Head coach is fighting to keep him. Not really sure why. Yes, he's a great athlete. Isn't bought into what we're doing though. Yeah, he's good, but if he transfers he won't see the field. Also, he'll lose a year of eligibility. Have at it I guess. I really don't see a problem with your kids. They are no different than anywhere else. Your problem is the coaches. Whoever above said enforce a my way or the highway approach is wrong in my opinion. Your coaches are half butting it. Why on earth would, or should a kid give anything more? The problem is coaches, not kids. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 25, 2014 21:11:30 GMT -6
That's my inclination. Head coach is fighting to keep him. Not really sure why. Yes, he's a great athlete. Isn't bought into what we're doing though. Yeah, he's good, but if he transfers he won't see the field. Also, he'll lose a year of eligibility. Have at it I guess. I really don't see a problem with your kids. They are no different than anywhere else. Your problem is the coaches. Whoever above said enforce a my way or the highway approach is wrong in my opinion. Your coaches are half butting it. Why on earth would, or should a kid give anything more? The problem is coaches, not kids. You hit it on the head. There are two of us who care. It isn't my program so I can't fire guys and bring in guys who do care. So I guess the new question is, is there anything us 2 guys can do to fix it? I have a great relationship with these kids aside from the one or two turds that we have. |
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 25, 2014 21:18:08 GMT -6
I really don't see a problem with your kids. They are no different than anywhere else. Your problem is the coaches. Whoever above said enforce a my way or the highway approach is wrong in my opinion. Your coaches are half butting it. Why on earth would, or should a kid give anything more? The problem is coaches, not kids. You hit it on the head. There are two of us who care. It isn't my program so I can't fire guys and bring in guys who do care. So I guess the new question is, is there anything us 2 guys can do to fix it? I have a great relationship with these kids aside from the one or two turds that we have. Invest your time and energy in those who care. Let them know it's human nature to always seek the easy or short way. It takes a special person to go against the grain and put in the time and work to be great at something. If they were close show them. They have to believe in themselves first. |
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Post by jsk002 on Dec 25, 2014 22:24:31 GMT -6
One thing that helps in changing the culture is just bringing your positive energy as a coach into everything. We try to. I think part of the problem is that the staff isn't present. I am there, the HC is there, and the speed/strength coach is there, and that's it. I feel like it's hard to get kids to buy into you if you aren't visible, right? We do bring in that positive energy and the kids just kind of mock it. They think we're crazy for making them do little things like log their lifts because the old HC didn't make them. He also didn't have a real offseason program in place. What is the circumstance for the staff not being present? |
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 25, 2014 23:24:57 GMT -6
They don't work in the building. Even the one who does leaves right away.
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Post by coach2013 on Dec 26, 2014 5:32:13 GMT -6
That's my inclination. Head coach is fighting to keep him. Not really sure why. Yes, he's a great athlete. Isn't bought into what we're doing though. Yeah, he's good, but if he transfers he won't see the field. Also, he'll lose a year of eligibility. Have at it I guess. With you or against you- will cause drama and be a distraction all season most likely.
I could tell you stories.
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Post by jsk002 on Dec 26, 2014 7:28:16 GMT -6
They don't work in the building. Even the one who does leaves right away. It can work with coaches being outside the building. Being outside the building doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care or they aren't committed. I think kids can understand why theses coaches aren't there if explained to them. I do think being visible in the off-season is important though. If you feel one of the problems is that the coaches aren't there then perhaps you can spend some time convincing the staff to be there together one day a week. Every situation is different - but I am the head coach and I don't teach and I am not in the building. I also can't be there everyday after school. It works because the kids trust us and our staff. We have never had a offseason where every coach is in the training session after school. I guess my point is this is a hurdle you can overcome. I think the bottom line is you need keep instilling in them your expectations, explain to them why they are what they are, and demonstrate that success will come. Overall continue to develop trust. It is a process for sure. How does your HC feel about the situation? |
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 26, 2014 7:50:48 GMT -6
They don't work in the building. Even the one who does leaves right away. It can work with coaches being outside the building. Being outside the building doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care or they aren't committed. I think kids can understand why theses coaches aren't there if explained to them. I do think being visible in the off-season is important though. If you feel one of the problems is that the coaches aren't there then perhaps you can spend some time convincing the staff to be there together one day a week. Every situation is different - but I am the head coach and I don't teach and I am not in the building. I also can't be there everyday after school. It works because the kids trust us and our staff. We have never had a offseason where every coach is in the training session after school. I guess my point is this is a hurdle you can overcome. I think the bottom line is you need keep instilling in them your expectations, explain to them why they are what they are, and demonstrate that success will come. Overall continue to develop trust. It is a process for sure. How does your HC feel about the situation? Same way. Says just stay positive and keep building the culture. He's not in the building either and spends much of his offseason trying to bankroll money to allow him to be all in during the season. He's a dynamic guy and a tremendous coach, so it's too bad he is unable to be around more. The other coaches have schedules that would allow them to be there, they just aren't. I have been in programs where I'm the only guy around all offseason and it worked, but the kids took things more seriously. |
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Post by irishdog on Dec 26, 2014 16:52:42 GMT -6
Had the exact same thing happen to me at one school. I had successfully rebuilt two programs before taking over at this one school. Only difference was I took time before taking over the two previous programs to get a pulse on the culture of the school, the administration, the athletic program, in particular the football program, and the players in it. I knew what I was getting into, and I adapted my philosophy to "fit" the cultures of those two schools. In the school that failed I didn't take the time to do it. I thought "my way" would work no matter what because it worked twice before. I was wrong. Without going into detail the two years I spent at that school nearly killed my career.
After I had left there, I took an assistant job which turned out to be great therapy. I had the opportunity to take over at another school and did my homework. I was only there for a couple of years (spouse job relocation killed it) but in those two short years we were able to turn things around. Now…I'm head coach at a new school in a different state. Before I arrived they won 5 games in 5 years of their short existence. Again…I did my homework. We just finished 5-4 in my first year.
While there are a ton of things I would like to have right now for this program I realized it would take time. And the first step is to show the kids you CARE about them. You CARE for everything they believe, that they are, and what they want to be. In return you gain their TRUST. Once you have that mutual CARE and TRUST to build upon they will run through fire for you. Including the coaches…whether they are on campus guys or not.
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 27, 2014 8:03:38 GMT -6
Coaches, Here is the situation. We are going into our second year as a staff in a program that has always been mediocre to awful. The year before our arrival, the team went 5-5 ending their year losing by 60 to the eventual state champs in the playoffs. The 5-5 team had some ok talent, but the coach was smart, saw what was coming, and got out of dodge. Jump to this past year. We went 1-8, but were competitive in all but 2 games and could have won any of the other 6 we lost. The culture has been sour. We have a young group, the group that we need to build around being very negative. "If coach so and so were here, we would have won state for sure" blah blah blah. We have a football class that we use for speed training, and have our lifts after school. The kids whine about it and don't work hard. I know that if you see it happening, you either coach it or tolerate it. Wondering what kinds of things those of you who have had success in changing culture have done? Are you trying to change just this small group of players, or is this a program change? If it is a program change, how is just busting kids a$$ in the weight room going to effect the entire program? To those who have responded that you need to to "inflict as much physical pain" on the players in the weight room, what does that do for the overall program building/culture changing goals? I get the idea and importance of the weight room work, but I have just left a program that had the nicest weight room in the area, the kids were pushed hard and there were high expectations in the weight room, but the HC thought that was all that was needed to change a "culture" within the program and it wasn't. In the 3 years he has been there, the numbers are down, success is down, and moral is low. My contention is that there is so much more to changing a losing culture or attitude within a football program, but a lot of coaches just think that a marine corps type of weight room atmosphere is all it takes. I am very interested in what other things have been done at some of the schools that compliment the weight room program. Coachwoodall, what else have you done to change the culture at your school? I believe the WR is just one cog in the wheel, but what are some of the other things that had to be done as well? |
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Post by blb on Dec 27, 2014 8:48:55 GMT -6
Be positive, but demanding.
Explain to them "This is where we're going, this is what we have to do to get there. Nothing can stop us from being successful except us."
As I posted earlier, the ones that won't GWTP - have a parting of the ways.
On a different note though Coach - if you were asking me to spend an hour during school running and more time after school lifting in December, I might be whining too. That's too much and not necessary, probably counter-productive for HS.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 27, 2014 9:06:08 GMT -6
Be positive, but demanding. Explain to them "This is where we're going, this is what we have to do to get there. Nothing can stop us from being successful except us." As I posted earlier, the ones that won't GWTP - have a parting of the ways. On a different note though Coach - if you were asking me to spend an hour during school running and more time after school lifting in December, I might be whining too. That's too much and not necessary, probably counter-productive for HS. I agree on it being too much. It's what the boss wants though. I feel like we should be able to hit both in class, and then open up the weight room after for the few freaks who want to do more. Always are a few. |
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