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Post by coachprater on Dec 18, 2014 0:30:48 GMT -6
I'm sure most programs have those kids who are playing and may not be as good as the others, but they come everyday and work their ass off. I'm wondering how often do you guys try and get those players in the game and how often do you try and get them meaningful snaps in games? I've always had a warm spot in my heart for these kids, probably because I was one of them and have always been a football junkie on just learning the game and getting better. As the head man at the program next year i'm nervous on whether or not what is too much or too little play time for these said players. Thanks in advance for any advice on this subject.
Coach Prater.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 18, 2014 6:41:16 GMT -6
Working hard does not come with a promise of playing time, it gives you the opportunity to earn playing time if that hard work makes you the best at that position. That being said, find something they can do to help the time, run down on kickoff, pass rush specialist etc...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 10:07:40 GMT -6
I think in today's day and age you need to find some snaps for those kids or they will not be around anymore. Have a coach in charge of getting those kids in, especially on offense and ST. Put a kid in at right end when you are running sweep left, etc. Hard to hide on defense though.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 18, 2014 10:31:38 GMT -6
Some kids you just can't if you want to win and keep your job
I've had kids that were serious health concerns if they actually played against someone good, they might get killed
We get these kids in during big wins (we had 3 blow outs )
For the ones who do have one skill we try to sneak them in here and there for a play Maybe utilize their one skill set
You can't leave these kids on the field more than a play or two ... The other coach finds em if it is longer than that haha
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Post by coachdbs on Dec 18, 2014 11:08:25 GMT -6
Agree with previous posts. I think it is very important that these kids are in as soon as the opportunity presents itself. I have seen HC's who keep the 1's in too long, providing fewer opportunities for the kids you are talking about. My HC the last two years was almost too good at it. We had a blowout game and he put the 2's in to start the second half and they came back which forced us to put our 1's back in late in the 4th. It was a veer team we were playing and our 2's/3's had limited reps against it during the week. It all worked out but I am big fan of his philosophy. It gets our JV kids friday night experience and rewards the kids who work their tails off all week.
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Post by blb on Dec 18, 2014 12:52:10 GMT -6
We try to two-platoon as much as possible.
We will play everyone as much as possible without hurting our chances to win
Play the game deciders until the game is decided - meaning running clock or one team is ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter.
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Post by coachphillip on Dec 18, 2014 13:08:56 GMT -6
It's a lot easier to get kids in early on offense. I'm a lot more reluctant to put kids in on defense until I'm sure things really are in hand or out of hand.
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Post by fantom on Dec 18, 2014 13:14:32 GMT -6
If we're talking about a guy who really can't play at all sorry, he's not getting any meaningful snaps.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Dec 19, 2014 8:11:41 GMT -6
I think you also have to consider your overall numbers and depth.
I went to a clinic where a successful coach from Ohio was speaking. He stated very adamantly that his 2's played. Period. He wanted them to always push the 1's for playing time, thus increasing the competitive spirit. This coach also had about 70 players on his roster.
However, I personally have had teams where my 2's might as well have been my 12's. The drop off from starter to reserve player was tremendous. The roster topped off at around 22.
Bottom line is that you have to manage players, within the game, in a fashion where you produce a win. If you can put players in that can help you win (or not loose) trust your own judgment.
One last thing, you may already know this, but for the younger coaches out there, I always tried to place a lesser experienced player(s) around an experienced player. I almost never made mass substitutions (unless you have a HUGE lead).
Just food for thought.
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Post by newt21 on Dec 19, 2014 9:55:51 GMT -6
I try to get those kids in on special teams whenever possible because I try to give my studs a break on special teams whenever possible. We finished the season with 19 kids this year, and they were not all starting caliber compared to our competition. So I had to find breaks for my two-way studs whenever and wherever I could.
Backside WR on a run play is a GREAT way, btw.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 19, 2014 10:44:44 GMT -6
I'm sure most programs have those kids who are playing and may not be as good as the others, but they come everyday and work their ass off. I'm wondering how often do you guys try and get those players in the game and how often do you try and get them meaningful snaps in games? I've always had a warm spot in my heart for these kids, probably because I was one of them and have always been a football junkie on just learning the game and getting better. As the head man at the program next year i'm nervous on whether or not what is too much or too little play time for these said players. Thanks in advance for any advice on this subject. Coach Prater. There's going to be a lot of different answers to this question because everyone has a different idea of what "work their ass off" means. From my experience, I have never known a gym rat that works their ass off to get better every day in season and off season to be a bad player. Or to say it in a reverse way. I have never known a bad player that lifted religiously, studied their position, learned the offense/defense inside and out, then once the season came, practiced every day at 100%, etc. Kids that do all this will at least be decent and will be able to contribute when it matters. A lot of posters, including myself, are picturing a kid who can't even get out of his own way and has no athleticism. The kids I've known to be this bad have never "worked their ass off".
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Post by fantom on Dec 19, 2014 10:55:20 GMT -6
I'm sure most programs have those kids who are playing and may not be as good as the others, but they come everyday and work their ass off. I'm wondering how often do you guys try and get those players in the game and how often do you try and get them meaningful snaps in games? I've always had a warm spot in my heart for these kids, probably because I was one of them and have always been a football junkie on just learning the game and getting better. As the head man at the program next year i'm nervous on whether or not what is too much or too little play time for these said players. Thanks in advance for any advice on this subject. Coach Prater. There's going to be a lot of different answers to this question because everyone has a different idea of what "work their ass off" means. From my experience, I have never known a gym rat that works their ass off to get better every day in season and off season to be a bad player. Or to say it in a reverse way. I have never known a bad player that lifted religiously, studied their position, learned the offense/defense inside and out, then once the season came, practiced every day at 100%, etc. Kids that do all this will at least be decent and will be able to contribute when it matters. A lot of posters, including myself, are picturing a kid who can't even get out of his own way and has no athleticism. The kids I've known to be this bad have never "worked their ass off". I have. We have one or two every year.
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Post by Coach Vint on Dec 19, 2014 11:23:09 GMT -6
My philosophy is you play everyone on your sub-varsity teams. You play to win on Friday Night. We don't get paid to win on Thursday, but we do on Friday.
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Post by coachrocco on Dec 27, 2014 23:22:06 GMT -6
What do you tell those kids when they inevitably ask what they could be doing more to get into the starting lineup? This is the part where I always seem to come up blank, and it's gonna keep coming up. There's going to be a lot of different answers to this question because everyone has a different idea of what "work their ass off" means. From my experience, I have never known a gym rat that works their ass off to get better every day in season and off season to be a bad player. Or to say it in a reverse way. I have never known a bad player that lifted religiously, studied their position, learned the offense/defense inside and out, then once the season came, practiced every day at 100%, etc. Kids that do all this will at least be decent and will be able to contribute when it matters. A lot of posters, including myself, are picturing a kid who can't even get out of his own way and has no athleticism. The kids I've known to be this bad have never "worked their ass off". I have. We have one or two every year.
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Post by 42falcon on Dec 27, 2014 23:35:35 GMT -6
Kids aren't dumb they know when they are not the real deal. Generally speaking your #2's are more likely to question how much they should play. The guys further down the pipe generally get it. If you are honest with them and they buy into their role as a practice / scout guy & an in game kick off cover guy who might see some action if we are way up or way down, then they will see those snaps as meaningful snaps.
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dbc2001
Sophomore Member
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Post by dbc2001 on Jan 27, 2015 8:15:07 GMT -6
This season we had a kid who physically we couldn't put out there. He kept the best stats and charting the offensive plays/defensive calls. Some might consider this type of role "demeaning" so you have to feel out the kid. However, coming up with roles (outside of cheerleader) on Gameday can make everyone feel they are a part of the team.
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mhs99
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Post by mhs99 on Jan 31, 2015 22:10:08 GMT -6
We are a small program and let me tell you what, if you have kids working their butts off in the weight room everyday they will find their way on the field. For us the hard working nonathletic kids end up playing WR on run plays, weak OLB, or weak OT. I can see that in huge programs it being an issue, small programs hardworking kids find the field athletic or not.
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Post by agap on Feb 1, 2015 2:00:14 GMT -6
If a player can get the job done, he plays. If he can't get the job done, he doesn't play. If a kid works hard but is a liability on the field, he won't play.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 1, 2015 5:08:54 GMT -6
You especially can't play a kid who can't do the job on D. I do think you could "sneak" him in at WR and run away from him or whatever. That theory has been around forever. That depends on your offense. We have a program philosophy that there is a game for everyone. That game might be on Monday for some kids, and Friday for others.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 1, 2015 19:02:09 GMT -6
I have to say I disagree with the coaches suggesting you can sneak these guys in on special teams. Offense I agree with, but special teams generally result in substantial changes of field position, or points.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 19:26:30 GMT -6
For the lack of a better term, are we talking special needs type kid or the kid who may have straight A's, go to the university of Ga, but doesn't necessarily have the type of physical talent that gets you a scholarship? If it special needs, that kid cant play for me as an o&d-line coach and I am not sure how I could just the risk that is being run when I put him into a game at any point. I can use the other one. I cant get enough of those guys. Especially the ones who want to work.
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Post by agap on Feb 1, 2015 19:35:42 GMT -6
I have to say I disagree with the coaches suggesting you can sneak these guys in on special teams. Offense I agree with, but special teams generally result in substantial changes of field position, or points. Maybe kick return/punt return. I would never try it on punt or kickoff. We don't for any, but you could possibly sneak them in on kick/punt return depending on your scheme and what you want out of those units.
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Post by jg78 on Feb 1, 2015 19:39:15 GMT -6
I have to say I disagree with the coaches suggesting you can sneak these guys in on special teams. Offense I agree with, but special teams generally result in substantial changes of field position, or points. Especially on the kickoff team. Ideally, if the game is in hand, I like to try to play young players and third stringers on offense more than defense. Better to go three and out and punt than get gashed up and down the field. If they really can't play a lick, I try to keep them off defense if I can help it.
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Post by coachg13 on Feb 1, 2015 20:06:15 GMT -6
We throw them in as punt block. Since a large % of punts are field-able at our level, we coach up the less talented kids on a punt return unit.
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Post by s73 on Feb 2, 2015 0:12:00 GMT -6
I have to say I disagree with the coaches suggesting you can sneak these guys in on special teams. Offense I agree with, but special teams generally result in substantial changes of field position, or points. Especially on the kickoff team. Ideally, if the game is in hand, I like to try to play young players and third stringers on offense more than defense. Better to go three and out and punt than get gashed up and down the field. If they really can't play a lick, I try to keep them off defense if I can help it. I have similar philosophy but see it the other way. I prefer to put lesser kids in on D when the game is in hand but will rarely do so on O b/c I have a fear that they will miss their block and get somebody hurt. If I do put them in on O then I do as others have said and run the other way. ST - I agree w/ above posts. Can sneak them in on KO and PR, little else. JMO. PS - As a side note, I have found that lesser kids that do play ST have a tendency to go a little harder b/c that is their only "time to shine". Has not hurt us as much as I originally feared. But you do have to be very smart about it. Our staff has discussed this at length several times before we put a lesser kid in their, weighing the pros & cons. Pros being it gives starters often times a much needed breather v. cons, well, those are obvious but we've been lucky. Has not really hurt us. If it does we pull them. The few "lesser" kids we have on special teams are always backed up by a starter. First sign of trouble they come out. They also know this, so again most of those kids will give us what they got. Just my experience though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 9:34:13 GMT -6
Size of roster and level of play is a big factor.
In small roster situations where you are simply trying to survive as a program or build one you are more likely to find a way for a sub-par player to play. At a higher level school in a top football state these kids usually have a JV game or some sort of lower level option. They never see the varsity action.
It is hard to hide these kids on defense or the coverage ST. Even on KOR you need to be careful. Maybe PAT.
Most offenses have a place for this kid on certain plays. An asst. coach can help phase these kids into to the game at appropriate time and position.
Some kids really need protected if they are physically unable (physical defect/legally blind/etc). They may need another role.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 2, 2015 9:53:16 GMT -6
We try to give some of those kids a chance to play somewhere. I haven't had anyone that physically can't protect themselves (yet) at the varsity level, but we have some on the 9th/JV levels and they'll play a few snaps anyway. Special teams etc.
I just try to be honest with them. If they stick around and work hard you never know when they will get called on- had a senior OL who was terrible. Suspended a starter because of grades and this kid played the whole game. He struggled but we won...had to run away from this dude as much as possible, but in the end he stuck it out. The next week he was back on the bench but had a little more energy and enthusiasm.
If he's a skill guy, I like to see those dudes get reps at WR- He can run people off, block, hustle...it doesn't take talent to do these things.
I heard Dave Cutcliffe talk about playing a "boosters kid" at WR and had this dude run off/go deep a few times a game just to keep everyone happy.
This was this program's first year two platooning and the kids absolutely loved it- it was also the program's best record in 5 years. In the past they had an average of 16 kids get meaningful snaps during the season, this year we had 22 starters and 30 kids get snaps. More kids happy=more buy-in overall.
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Post by newhope on Feb 5, 2015 11:23:20 GMT -6
Is this a kid who will get us beat if I play him? If so, then he plays once the game's decided. If not, I'll get him some reps here and there during the game.
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Post by spreadpowero on Feb 6, 2015 7:29:14 GMT -6
We get these players in as soon as the game is in hand. We had 3 games this year that allowed us to play everyone. We try to get some on special teams, really big kids that can't run are great for PAT.
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Post by gr8bigbull on Feb 15, 2015 19:26:19 GMT -6
Agree with those who say that when a game is in hand or in some cases out of hand (wrong side of a large margin).While coaching at a larger (6A) school, we had a hard time when we were winning big (running clock) getting any significant Varsity time for 2nd team because everyone was trying to get there 3rd stringers in (in the event that we did not get many more opportunities later in the season). The JV games were where we should try to get the 3rd string in to back up JV starters (essentially your Varsity 2nd teamers). Nothing is perfect and you will always end up with pissed off parents no matter how hard you try!
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