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Post by fantom on Oct 23, 2014 10:25:53 GMT -6
If you only win a blowout once or twice, you're right. If you have a really dominant team there really is a risk that the starters don't play four quarters and don't know how to do it when they need to. It doesn't happen often and it's a nice problem to have but it can be a problem. We're 8-1 and our point differential is 494-128. We've had 6 running clocks. The 2 games my 1's played in the 4th quarter we didn't have an issue with conditioning. Maybe so but I'm not interested in waiting to find out in the playoffs that our guys aren't ready to play a full four quarters.
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Post by coachwilcox on Oct 23, 2014 10:50:17 GMT -6
I played for a team my senior year that had won the state championship our Junior year. We had 20 returning starters and was preseason #1 and #1 for most of the year.
We rarely played 4 quarters and many times did not play 3 quarters.
The first game of the year we played a team that was 1 classification up and were beating them 35-0 after 1 quarter, just to give you and idea.
We ended up losing in the semifinals to a team just as good as ours, if not better that ended up winning it and going 15-0.
I'm not saying us not playing 4 quarters all the time is the reason we didn't win it, but I know for a fact I personally was in better shape my junior year because of all the reps in game I received that year.
It is a fine line, but you have to let your boys get reps at full game speed if you want to be clicking on all cylinders come the playoffs, imo.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 23, 2014 11:08:09 GMT -6
Just because some of you don't agree with this coach in question, doesn't mean his reasoning isn't a legit one.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 23, 2014 12:09:08 GMT -6
I'm not saying that I don't believe his answer is not why he did it, and quite honestly it's the other coaches job to stop him. My point is just that if you're beating someone that badly, how is that preparing you to go 4 qtrs against a quality opponent? You would probably get better reps against your scout team. I do conditioning and competition drills every week to get them ready for any opponent. I get that game speed is hard to replicate in practice, but if your winning by 70, I'm not sure you're playing against real game speed
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 23, 2014 12:19:23 GMT -6
If your team is still playing hard and doing what your suppose to be doing does it matter if your opponent isn't good? Just cause the other team is slow doesn't mean your team is playing slow.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 23, 2014 13:25:49 GMT -6
If it doesn't matter that the other team is not as good as you, then you should be able to replicate game speed in practice with your scout team. The idea of game speed is playing a team that is better than your 2's
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Post by fantom on Oct 23, 2014 13:31:41 GMT -6
If it doesn't matter that the other team is not as good as you, then you should be able to replicate game speed in practice with your scout team. When you figure out how to do that let us know.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 23, 2014 14:10:27 GMT -6
If it doesn't matter that the other team is not as good as you, then you should be able to replicate game speed in practice with your scout team. When you figure out how to do that let us know. So you think you get better reps against a team your 2's would beat, than against your 2's?
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Post by silkyice on Oct 23, 2014 15:42:11 GMT -6
What are your thoughts of making your team run after the game to get conditioning in? I know it sounds crazy and sounds like punishment, but if you truly have a great team and a mature team that is completely focused on winning the state title, it might work.
Game is over and your starters just played one half and one series of second half. When game is over, you run 20 40's. Sounds insane I know.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 23, 2014 16:08:53 GMT -6
When you figure out how to do that let us know. So you think you get better reps against a team your 2's would beat, than against your 2's? Different view of thought....I feel like I would owe my hard working seniors at least 3 quarters playing time. Most don't play college and this is all they have left. If you were a senior would you rather get more reps against your scout team in practice or actual game playing time in front of your friends, family, and town?
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Post by fantom on Oct 23, 2014 17:39:15 GMT -6
When you figure out how to do that let us know. So you think you get better reps against a team your 2's would beat, than against your 2's? Yes.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 23, 2014 18:50:09 GMT -6
Just got beat 67-0 tonight...only had 13 players to start & our starting HB/SLB rolled his ankle. Other than the coach putting most his 2s in there was nothing we could do to stop them. Even got asked for a running clock in the 1at half & said no thanks. Kids won't play for 10 months & we want to get as many reps in tonight as possible.
I lopsided games are all in how both coaches handle. I spent the whole focusing on the little victories...out OLB attacking & stopping Counter. A DL finally squeezing & stopping trap, our OL & lead back springing Iso for a 10 yard gain, the perfect execution of our slot tunnel screen. So what their starting QB stayed in...he was just handing the ball off in their full house t. He kept once, but that's part their offense. We tackled him, but it kept that drove moving. So what we get beat...let's focus on continuing to improve ourselves. I'll have the same attitude some day when we get numbers up, weight room attendance higher & are able to soundly best other teams.
As I already said in another thread, I feel anything in the 1st half goes, then it is a race to 35 so the back-ups who give the scout look can get some PT & everyone gets to next week healthy.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 23, 2014 22:04:25 GMT -6
I don't know a ton about sports science, so this may be absolutely refutable by somebody who does, but my observation is that it's impossible for us to get to game speed in practice. Kids might try their butts off but their bodies just don't seem to respond the way they want. Best practice by far is Wednesday for us every week, then on Thursday it looks like they are trying to drag their bodies through a practice before looking full speed again on Friday. Again, purely my observation but this is the way it has been on every team I've ever coached whether we were young or experienced, self-motivated or not, "tough" or "soft", etc. I'd actually say this effect has been more pronounced on some of our best players over the years, who have literally taken an entire week to get their body to cooperate with what they were telling it to do.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 24, 2014 5:34:47 GMT -6
I don't know a ton about sports science, so this may be absolutely refutable by somebody who does, but my observation is that it's impossible for us to get to game speed in practice. Kids might try their butts off but their bodies just don't seem to respond the way they want. Best practice by far is Wednesday for us every week, then on Thursday it looks like they are trying to drag their bodies through a practice before looking full speed again on Friday. Again, purely my observation but this is the way it has been on every team I've ever coached whether we were young or experienced, self-motivated or not, "tough" or "soft", etc. I'd actually say this effect has been more pronounced on some of our best players over the years, who have literally taken an entire week to get their body to cooperate with what they were telling it to do. I would argue that it is probably more mental than physical. Couldn't the explanation just be so simple as one is a game and one is a practice? We talkin bout practice? Practice? ?
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2014 7:47:04 GMT -6
I don't know a ton about sports science, so this may be absolutely refutable by somebody who does, but my observation is that it's impossible for us to get to game speed in practice. Kids might try their butts off but their bodies just don't seem to respond the way they want. Best practice by far is Wednesday for us every week, then on Thursday it looks like they are trying to drag their bodies through a practice before looking full speed again on Friday. Again, purely my observation but this is the way it has been on every team I've ever coached whether we were young or experienced, self-motivated or not, "tough" or "soft", etc. I'd actually say this effect has been more pronounced on some of our best players over the years, who have literally taken an entire week to get their body to cooperate with what they were telling it to do. I would argue that it is probably more mental than physical. Couldn't the explanation just be so simple as one is a game and one is a practice? We talkin bout practice? Practice? ? Exactly. No matter how intense you practice you can't match the intensity of a game.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 8:16:55 GMT -6
So you think you get better reps against a team your 2's would beat, than against your 2's? Different view of thought....I feel like I would owe my hard working seniors at least 3 quarters playing time. Most don't play college and this is all they have left. If you were a senior would you rather get more reps against your scout team in practice or actual game playing time in front of your friends, family, and town? I said in an earlier post that starters deserve 3 qtrs. I was just saying I don't see where his reasoning of it gets them conditioned for playoff games, when they will have to play 4 qtrs
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 8:17:25 GMT -6
So you think you get better reps against a team your 2's would beat, than against your 2's? Yes. We will just have to agree to disagree
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 8:23:27 GMT -6
But the question remains, how intense is a 78-0 game?
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2014 8:29:18 GMT -6
But the question remains, how intense is a 78-0 game? There are no quick whistles, it isn't thud, and the QB isn't wearing a red jersey so it's more intense than practice.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 24, 2014 8:47:20 GMT -6
But the question remains, how intense is a 78-0 game? Once again your bringing the opposing team into the equation. Just because they are potentially playing with no intensity, doesn't mean your team is. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 8:51:01 GMT -6
But the question remains, how intense is a 78-0 game? There are no quick whistles, it isn't thud, and the QB isn't wearing a red jersey so it's more intense than practice. So this gets you in shape?
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 8:51:31 GMT -6
But the question remains, how intense is a 78-0 game? Once again your bringing the opposing team into the equation. Just because they are potentially playing with no intensity, doesn't mean your team is. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards And this is how you get your players in shape?
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2014 9:03:39 GMT -6
There are no quick whistles, it isn't thud, and the QB isn't wearing a red jersey so it's more intense than practice. So this gets you in shape? So, in practice, you tackle to the ground and the QB is live during every group and team period?
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Post by jrk5150 on Oct 24, 2014 9:14:37 GMT -6
Once again your bringing the opposing team into the equation. Just because they are potentially playing with no intensity, doesn't mean your team is. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards And this is how you get your players in shape? There are multiple layers to what constitutes "shape". It's not just about cardio-vascular conditioning, it's about how your body reacts to the stress of competition, etc. You cannot truly mimic game conditions in practice. Can't do it in youth, can't do it in HS, can't in college, can't in the pros. There's a reason you see guys (even in the pros) struggle their first few games back when they've been out, even if they've "stayed in shape" and been at practice. There's a reason you have the phrase "game shape". I would imagine, but don't "know" that there is a chemical difference in how your body acts/reacts in practice vs. games. Just putting kids you don't know across from you changes the dynamic of how your body reacts to the stress of the activity. And IMO that applies to every sport.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 9:36:04 GMT -6
The quote from the article says "We ran out of gas". No I dont go live with the Qb. I do however put 1's on 1's. I don't rely on other teams making us better. I also have competition time every week. Most of the time they pick teams and compete in drills, winner picks losers "punishment". If you want to see them all out, let them compete against each other, even if it's only bragging rights at school that's at stake. IMO teams that struggle in the playoffs because of an easy year is mental not physical (unless of course you conditioning program is not up to par). They are so used to beating teams handily, they don't react well when they are down by 7 or 14 late. Never been there all year. beating a team 78-0 won't provide that. I feel team competition will.
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Post by blb on Oct 24, 2014 9:38:56 GMT -6
Many (most?) kids have a tendency, consciously or otherwise, to take it a little easy on their buddies in practice.
You just can't get a mad on every day in practice for the guy you grew up-socialize with like you can the faceless opponent from the other school once a week.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 24, 2014 9:54:01 GMT -6
Once again your bringing the opposing team into the equation. Just because they are potentially playing with no intensity, doesn't mean your team is. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards And this is how you get your players in shape? I think it's more game atmosphere reps and playing a full length game rather than simply saying it's about conditioning. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2014 10:57:00 GMT -6
The quote from the article says "We ran out of gas". No I dont go live with the Qb. I do however put 1's on 1's. I don't rely on other teams making us better. I also have competition time every week. Most of the time they pick teams and compete in drills, winner picks losers "punishment". If you want to see them all out, let them compete against each other, even if it's only bragging rights at school that's at stake. IMO teams that struggle in the playoffs because of an easy year is mental not physical (unless of course you conditioning program is not up to par). They are so used to beating teams handily, they don't react well when they are down by 7 or 14 late. Never been there all year. beating a team 78-0 won't provide that. I feel team competition will. If you're a true platoon team and have enough depth to provide true competition for the length of an entire practice congratulations. We don't have that luxury and neither does the team in the article. I doubt that even a true platoon team is going best on best for an entire practice, though. The first defense needs to work against the opponent's offense, not their own. The same is true of the first offense. For that reason I don't believe that it's possible to completely simulate game speed and intensity in practice.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 24, 2014 11:22:51 GMT -6
I have 7 kids that start both sides of the ball, and play on KO and KOR. We are the smallest team #'s wise, of any team we play
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2014 11:35:03 GMT -6
I have 7 kids that start both sides of the ball, and play on KO and KOR. We are the smallest team #'s wise, of any team we play Then I don't understand how you're able to go best on best through inside run period, 7 on 7, and team offensive and defensive periods for an entire practice.
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