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Post by orangeandblackdc on Oct 3, 2014 9:11:28 GMT -6
How much do you Head Coaches deal with your Middle School Football programs? Im the DC at a school and my son plays 8th grade football at one of our middle schools. His season is almost over and it has been a bad season, haven't won one game. Yesterday my son comes home and says that there is a high school senior that is helping coach (who quit football) and is playing defense against the middle school kids and tackling and pushing them around. Last night's practice took the cake. With one game left the coach decides he needs to toughen them up so he decides it's a great idea to do "Bull in the Ring". My son said the 3rd kid got smoked from a blindside hit and they stopped the drill. Of course my wife is furious, as am I, but as the HS defensive coordinator should I talk to the AD at the middle school, or the HS Head Coach who is technically in charge of the middle school program.....
Im half tempted to tell my kid to pack his gear and turn it in.. I just don't know if I can trust this guy.
Any suggestions or comments???
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Post by blb on Oct 3, 2014 9:32:43 GMT -6
Why would you tell your son to quit? If he decides to on his own, so be it.
Tell the HS head coach what you know so he can deal with it.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 3, 2014 9:57:39 GMT -6
How much do you Head Coaches deal with your Middle School Football programs? Im the DC at a school and my son plays 8th grade football at one of our middle schools. His season is almost over and it has been a bad season, haven't won one game. Yesterday my son comes home and says that there is a high school senior that is helping coach (who quit football) and is playing defense against the middle school kids and tackling and pushing them around. Last night's practice took the cake. With one game left the coach decides he needs to toughen them up so he decides it's a great idea to do "Bull in the Ring". My son said the 3rd kid got smoked from a blindside hit and they stopped the drill. Of course my wife is furious, as am I, but as the HS defensive coordinator should I talk to the AD at the middle school, or the HS Head Coach who is technically in charge of the middle school program..... Im half tempted to tell my kid to pack his gear and turn it in.. I just don't know if I can trust this guy. Any suggestions or comments??? Who even does that anymore? Bull in the ring is pretty much a no-no everywhere ive been. Id go to the MS AD, hell the school board if i had to, get that guy away from coaching. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 3, 2014 10:23:40 GMT -6
Good advice here already posted. Whatever yiu do never have your son quit unless he wants to. I'd still talk my son out of it. I hate quitters no matter how bad the situation. Go directly to the HC then over his head if you have to. Kids quitting in this situation is actually letting that HC win and nothing will change.
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Post by fantom on Oct 3, 2014 10:25:14 GMT -6
How much do you Head Coaches deal with your Middle School Football programs? Im the DC at a school and my son plays 8th grade football at one of our middle schools. His season is almost over and it has been a bad season, haven't won one game. Yesterday my son comes home and says that there is a high school senior that is helping coach (who quit football) and is playing defense against the middle school kids and tackling and pushing them around. Last night's practice took the cake. With one game left the coach decides he needs to toughen them up so he decides it's a great idea to do "Bull in the Ring". My son said the 3rd kid got smoked from a blindside hit and they stopped the drill. Of course my wife is furious, as am I, but as the HS defensive coordinator should I talk to the AD at the middle school, or the HS Head Coach who is technically in charge of the middle school program..... Im half tempted to tell my kid to pack his gear and turn it in.. I just don't know if I can trust this guy. Any suggestions or comments??? You say that the HS HC is technically in charge of the MS program. How "Technically"? Does he have any control over the MS program? Any interest? If I heard that the coaches at a feeder school were doing these things I'g go nuts. Those kids who are quitting, think they'll play HS ball? They have a HS quitter on their staff? Oh yeah, he's selling your program. I think that you should talk with your HC and don't know why you haven't yet. If he doesn't care (and he's an idiot if he doesn't) take it up with the MS AD.
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Post by orangeandblackdc on Oct 3, 2014 10:38:23 GMT -6
He doesn't want to quit and of course I don't want him to either. I just don't want him to get injured if they decide to do something asinine again!!! I told him he just has to get through this last game and he won't have to deal with the stupidity anymore. My wife emailed the MS AD as a concerned and upset parent. I'm going to attack it from the football side. Talking to our HC tonite about it.... probably going to get the "well, those guys have been pretty loyal to our program and it's hard finding middle school coaches talk."
Thanks for the advice fellas. It's the oldest of my 3 kids, so having to deal with this crap for the first time. The kid loves football and comes to all the varsity practices after his practices. Got demolished last week, and I picked him up after the game and he said he can't wait till he gets to high school. In his next breath he asked how our practice went, and asked if he could watch film....
The whole thing just ticks me off......
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Post by blb on Oct 3, 2014 10:48:50 GMT -6
probably going to get the "well, those guys have been pretty loyal to our program and it's hard finding middle school coaches talk."
Tell him if he thinks that's hard, imagine how hard it's going to be to get HS PLAYERS if he allows that crap to continue.
Your son sounds like a cool kid.
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Post by orangeandblackdc on Oct 3, 2014 10:55:29 GMT -6
Pretty sure this is the HC last year. So, I have a feeling its gonna fall on deaf ears.
Thanks, I think he's a good kid as well. Can't afford to get him hurt at this stage, he has to start hockey season next week.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 3, 2014 10:59:00 GMT -6
Shouldn't fall on def ears when lawsuits could arise.
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Post by planck on Oct 12, 2014 17:56:44 GMT -6
It varies. I worked at a HS where the HC would attend every middle school home game (after our practices ended) and was very, very involved right down to the youth level. This program was the gold standard in that state and won numerous state championships.
When I changed jobs, I moved to middle and work for an HC who couldn't be bothered to give the time of day to the middle. Won't support us, won't let us run camp to install anything (he runs it and keeps the kids' money to buy HS gear), lack of qualified coaches, gear falling apart, etc.
If you ask me, any HC ought to at least be aware and steering the ship at middle, even if it's by delegating. The clown running bull in the ring needs to go...if for no other reason than liability. I've never been an HC and I don't want to be, but if you don't stay involved at that level you're going to have a hell of a time being successful without anybody coming out for the HS squad.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 12, 2014 20:08:49 GMT -6
Our youth football program is the opposite. We, the HS staff, have reached out to them to try to get on the same page offensively and defensively, even if it's just hole numbers and terminology. They declined our help.
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Post by planck on Oct 13, 2014 5:07:15 GMT -6
I think that's basically the same issue. You can't have cowboys and volunteers who won't carry the program's banner. Otherwise, the kids spend a year either learning the wrong system or, worse, learning to do {censored} completely wrong. Somebody has to be the CEO and be in control.
edit: to clarify, not putting blame on you guys, just making my point that fractured programs generally aren't as successful as cohesive ones. Whoever is running that youth program ought to be accountable to the HC or ad - somebody who is steering the football program.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 13, 2014 9:15:40 GMT -6
I think that's basically the same issue. You can't have cowboys and volunteers who won't carry the program's banner. Otherwise, the kids spend a year either learning the wrong system or, worse, learning to do {censored} completely wrong. Somebody has to be the CEO and be in control. edit: to clarify, not putting blame on you guys, just making my point that fractured programs generally aren't as successful as cohesive ones. Whoever is running that youth program ought to be accountable to the HC or ad - somebody who is steering the football program. Actually, im going to disagree. Lets assume you have a youth-HS program thats set up to run all the same stuff...youth starting at 4th grade Is that varsity head coach REALLY going to be around 8 years? Possibly not...so unless you have one of these coaches who stays for 10+ years...it doesnt matter what O/D your youth teams learn, because its probably going to be different by the time they are 11/12 grade. Youth program has 3 jobs: ---Teach FUNDAMENTALS ---Teach the kids to love the game ---have maximum player retention. It doesnt matter what O/D they run... Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 13, 2014 11:39:12 GMT -6
I know our situation isn't the norm, but our HS head coach has been the HC since 1994. Also, our youth organization has always ran a comparable offense and defense, not always the same but close. It would make sense for them to use the same hole numbers and terminology as the HS. They don't have to run the same stuff, but the basics would be nice.
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 14, 2014 10:14:42 GMT -6
We try to attend the jr high football games after practice when they are home (game field is just up the hill from our practice field). Stay for at least a quarter, talk to the kids, help coach them up. The junior high staff is considered part of the football staff. They jr camp is ran at the same time as ours, they just leave an hour earlier. Its good for the kids to see the high school coaches and get to know them, and them us. Our middle school program is running a simple version of our scheme so we don't have to reteach every last thing.
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Post by gibbs72 on Oct 14, 2014 11:05:55 GMT -6
As the DC, I try to involved the JH/ MS coaches whenever I can. I invited the MS DC to go upstairs in the box on Friday nights to chart and by my eyes. It's helped him learn the terminology, make him more comfortable, and now he's installing more of our stuff at their level.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 14, 2014 11:11:22 GMT -6
As the DC, I try to involved the JH/ MS coaches whenever I can. I invited the MS DC to go upstairs in the box on Friday nights to chart and by my eyes. It's helped him learn the terminology, make him more comfortable, and now he's installing more of our stuff at their level. now see THAT im good with. if you are going to convert someone, spend some time with the guy, work with him...thats how it SHOULD be. ive been in programs where the varsity head coach has come to me and said "i'm going to install my offense with your kids during camp...here is our playbook"...and i NEVER heard from him again, couldn't get him to answer a single question. you know what i did? i threw the playbook away, changed the time and dates of our camp to his dead period, ran what i wanted, and we ended up going 6-3 that year....and that group that is now what would be his varsity team? is running something completely different, under a new HC. so it would have been a waste of time had i let him do it.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 15, 2014 8:15:02 GMT -6
I am the HS HC and hire the middle school coaches and have periodically gotten parent messages about Middle school coaching. I take the issues to the coaches immediately. I have been fortunate to have a good mix of football focused guys and kid focused guys in that program. My screening for those coaches isn't extensive but I do get to see them coach at least twice at practice and at one game per season. I would like to see more but schedules overlap.
This thread makes me really think that I need to let them know how much I appreciate their efforts.
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