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Post by joker31 on Aug 16, 2014 19:40:22 GMT -6
Just so you guys understand, I am a former player turned coach who is very loyal to the HC. He is a good friend of mine and we have a lot of trust in each other.
However, a friend/former teammate of mine has joined the staff from the youth program and we began to talk of how the HC has become "soft" over time (even the DC has since then, who was also our coach) especially compared to when he was coaching us. He never had kids back then, but now has two and I believe this is the root of it.
I'm not sure this happens naturally, because I'm sure there's coaches out there who started to have kids but still stayed stern and tough. My question is, how do you bring this up to the HC? Especially if you think by him being a little tougher/demanding on the kids would help the team reach their potential?
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Post by jg78 on Aug 16, 2014 19:56:15 GMT -6
In what way do you think he's soft?
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Post by silkyice on Aug 16, 2014 20:12:35 GMT -6
I would not bring up him being soft, rather reminisce with him about how tough he was on you and your team and how it made you and your team better.
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Post by coachrocco on Aug 16, 2014 20:13:01 GMT -6
First of all, I would not make generalizations to his face like "you've become soft". The reason for this, as the 2nd post alludes to, is because it isn't a specific critique that is going to be able to result in him making an adjustment to be more successful. I would come up with a list of reasons that you think he has become soft, and say those. For example, as another former player who coached under the head coach I played for until this year, I shared this problem a lot more than you could imagine. So I pointed out to the coach that when I played we did 40 hills in 12 minutes by preseasons end, while todays kids have a conditioning circuit that is pathetically easy. I pointed out that we used to do a ton of live tackling type drills, and nowadays we hardly go hard ever in practice. Now, did these work? No, he ended up resigning, but I think the conversation went as well as it did because I was so specific with my critiques. Specificity is key.
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Post by wolverine55 on Aug 16, 2014 20:23:49 GMT -6
I agree with some of that. I definitely wouldn't use the word "soft" but I would maybe ask why he's doing some things differently. Again, use specific examples. There could be very good reasons for why he has changed some things.
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Post by coachwilcox on Aug 16, 2014 20:29:12 GMT -6
A.) He is the head coach and it is his program to run. Let him run it.
B.) Assistant coaches are always the smartest guy in the room until they become the HC.
C.) Fake it till you make it.
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Post by joker31 on Aug 16, 2014 20:45:18 GMT -6
In what way do you think he's soft? Just how demanding he was. And if we weren't playing up to our potential he'd make us re-rep until we got it... If we didn't we'd run because we clearly didn't want to play football. |
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 16, 2014 21:23:16 GMT -6
There's a difference between getting soft and being indifferent. If what you're saying is that you feel he's slipping in holding kids accountable, then you need to address it with him.
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 16, 2014 21:47:45 GMT -6
Do you think he's "soft" because of the way Admin or society in general has sort of put the kabosh on toughness in general? No bullying. Concussions, etc. If you're getting pelted with "can't do that anymore because I'll get called into the office again" that could soften you up.
Sometimes age softens. Heck, the older I get the more tired I'm getting. I need to be the engine that runs the energy button of my team. And that is tiring. If I don't...I might be looked at as "soft".
Just throwing out suggestions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 9:05:57 GMT -6
Define "soft."
Now explain how this is having a noticeable, measurable impact on the team.
Not everyone has to be Bill Parcells to win football games.
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Post by lochness on Aug 17, 2014 9:13:09 GMT -6
I think a lot of coaches are "softer" now (if that's even the right word) because the game has changed. The old days of running 40 hills and lining kids up from 50 yards away and having them run straight at each other to make them "tough" are over. Safety concerns (both from injury and /or from heat or dehydration) are now a huge priority. Football participation numbers have decreased. You can't just run kids off anymore in many communities. You need every guy to contribute. It's about building a smarter, safer team these days...not a tougher one capable of running up hills all day.
Maybe he's not getting "soft." Maybe he is smart and changing with the times and/or the community.
(BTW: I'm not saying I agree with this...I'm just saying I believe this is how it is.)
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Post by fantom on Aug 17, 2014 9:28:03 GMT -6
Just so you guys understand, I am a former player turned coach who is very loyal to the HC. He is a good friend of mine and we have a lot of trust in each other. However, a friend/former teammate of mine has joined the staff from the youth program and we began to talk of how the HC has become "soft" over time (even the DC has since then, who was also our coach) especially compared to when he was coaching us. He never had kids back then, but now has two and I believe this is the root of it. I'm not sure this happens naturally, because I'm sure there's coaches out there who started to have kids but still stayed stern and tough. My question is, how do you bring this up to the HC? Especially if you think by him being a little tougher/demanding on the kids would help the team reach their potential? Maybe he hasn't gotten softer at all. Maybe he was never as hard as you remember him as when you were a player. |
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 17, 2014 9:58:19 GMT -6
Kids today have more choices. Gone are the days of the abuse and insults. You can work them hard, you had better win though, or they will say its not worth it.
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Post by CS on Aug 17, 2014 10:15:15 GMT -6
Kids today have more choices. Gone are the days of the abuse and insults. You can work them hard, you had better win though, or they will say its not worth it. I agree with a lot that's been said but this is a big issue in my opinion. there are a lot more activities and distractions then there used to be. Not to mention that in years past the kids may have to go and do manual labor if they weren't playing football. Now kids whine about doing the dishes. bottom line is I have been out 12 yrs and the game has changed a lot and for the better in my opinion. |
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Post by wingtol on Aug 17, 2014 10:15:29 GMT -6
Just so you guys understand, I am a former player turned coach who is very loyal to the HC. He is a good friend of mine and we have a lot of trust in each other. However, a friend/former teammate of mine has joined the staff from the youth program and we began to talk of how the HC has become "soft" over time (even the DC has since then, who was also our coach) especially compared to when he was coaching us. He never had kids back then, but now has two and I believe this is the root of it. I'm not sure this happens naturally, because I'm sure there's coaches out there who started to have kids but still stayed stern and tough. My question is, how do you bring this up to the HC? Especially if you think by him being a little tougher/demanding on the kids would help the team reach their potential? Maybe he hasn't gotten softer at all. Maybe he was never as hard as you remember him as when you were a player. We had a former player come back and help us for awhile in the summers when he was around. He would always tell us we were softer now than when he played for us. Things is we were doing the exact same stuff as when he played! Our HC flipped on him after he said this a couple times and that was the end of it. My advice, keep your mouth shut and keep coaching the way he wants it. |
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Post by joker31 on Aug 17, 2014 10:54:29 GMT -6
Kids today have more choices. Gone are the days of the abuse and insults. You can work them hard, you had better win though, or they will say its not worth it. I agree about the choices, not about the working them hard. Kids I think deep down want to be pushed, provided they know what they are being pushed for. In regards to needing to win, this years group has the potential to be really good. I just know when he was coaching me and more "demanding", we made the semi-finals for 3 consecutive years. We've dropped in talent for a couple years, but it's come back and we can't seem to get over the hump of being an above average football team... I'd say this years team has the same amount of talent as the best team in our program's history. |
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Post by joker31 on Aug 17, 2014 10:59:27 GMT -6
Do you think he's "soft" because of the way Admin or society in general has sort of put the kabosh on toughness in general? No bullying. Concussions, etc. If you're getting pelted with "can't do that anymore because I'll get called into the office again" that could soften you up. Sometimes age softens. Heck, the older I get the more tired I'm getting. I need to be the engine that runs the energy button of my team. And that is tiring. If I don't...I might be looked at as "soft". Just throwing out suggestions. This could be it, he's also the one who's created the concussion protocol for all the teams in our area. I also know there was a lot of energy spent on off the field issues with kids, babysitting was a big issue last year. That said, we have good kids this year. I believe they want to do the right things in the classroom, as people, and on the football field. There will still be issues that arise I'm sure, but I think these kids need to get pushed to get "over the hump" and to reach their potential. I think that starts with the HC and being more demanding |
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Post by 33coach on Aug 17, 2014 11:07:16 GMT -6
Just so you guys understand, I am a former player turned coach who is very loyal to the HC. He is a good friend of mine and we have a lot of trust in each other. However, a friend/former teammate of mine has joined the staff from the youth program and we began to talk of how the HC has become "soft" over time (even the DC has since then, who was also our coach) especially compared to when he was coaching us. He never had kids back then, but now has two and I believe this is the root of it. I'm not sure this happens naturally, because I'm sure there's coaches out there who started to have kids but still stayed stern and tough. My question is, how do you bring this up to the HC? Especially if you think by him being a little tougher/demanding on the kids would help the team reach their potential? First off. The game has gotten soft. Kids have gotten soft. Second of all. Never question the HC. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards |
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Post by joker31 on Aug 17, 2014 11:26:09 GMT -6
Just so you guys understand, I am a former player turned coach who is very loyal to the HC. He is a good friend of mine and we have a lot of trust in each other. However, a friend/former teammate of mine has joined the staff from the youth program and we began to talk of how the HC has become "soft" over time (even the DC has since then, who was also our coach) especially compared to when he was coaching us. He never had kids back then, but now has two and I believe this is the root of it. I'm not sure this happens naturally, because I'm sure there's coaches out there who started to have kids but still stayed stern and tough. My question is, how do you bring this up to the HC? Especially if you think by him being a little tougher/demanding on the kids would help the team reach their potential? First off. The game has gotten soft. Kids have gotten soft. Second of all. Never question the HC. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards I'd agree with you, but if you think this could help the kids really succeed would you bring it up? Maybe not calling him soft, but telling him to be more demanding and give specific examples? |
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Post by sweep26 on Aug 17, 2014 11:48:30 GMT -6
Doesn't nearly every former player think things were much tougher, and their old coach was much more demanding when they played??
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Post by 33coach on Aug 17, 2014 11:56:13 GMT -6
First off. The game has gotten soft. Kids have gotten soft. Second of all. Never question the HC. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards I'd agree with you, but if you think this could help the kids really succeed would you bring it up? Maybe not calling him soft, but telling him to be more demanding and give specific examples? kids can succeed in softer programs. it happens. kids are not as they used to be. and EVERY former player thinks "in my day..." thats just part of it i say let it go, let him run HIS program and be apart of it, or dont. |
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Post by mountainman on Aug 17, 2014 12:08:05 GMT -6
Sometimes finding a better way of doing something can be perceived as soft by a former player/coach. For instance, we rarely condition after practice. We haven't for three years now. We used to run Texas hundreds, 55's, big 3's, etc. to death after practice. The difference, three years ago we went completely no huddle on everything (offense, defense, drills, 7 on 7). We go a hundred miles an hour for our entire practice. We have had former players from 5 or so years ago (and even had one on staff last year) complain about how much they had to run and how we are "soft" now. I will tell you this, we have been in better shape than every team we have played the past three years, have gotten more reps in practice, and have kept practices shorter. So sometimes a different way can be perceived as "soft" when it is just "better" for the program.
Now discipline, off the field behavior, expectations, etc. have remained the same. You cannot go soft in this area or the inmates take over the asylum.
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Post by fantom on Aug 17, 2014 12:11:46 GMT -6
Sometimes finding a better way of doing something can be perceived as soft by a former player/coach. For instance, we rarely condition after practice. We haven't for three years now. We used to run Texas hundreds, 55's, big 3's, etc. to death after practice. The difference, three years ago we went completely no huddle on everything (offense, defense, drills, 7 on 7). We go a hundred miles an hour for our entire practice. We have had former players from 5 or so years ago (and even had one on staff last year) complain about how much they had to run and how we are "soft" now. I will tell you this, we have been in better shape than every team we have played the past three years, have gotten more reps in practice, and have kept practices shorter. So sometimes a different way can be perceived as "soft" when it is just "better" for the program. Now discipline, off the field behavior, expectations, etc. have remained the same. You cannot go soft in this area or the inmates take over the asylum. With experience you sometimes learn that what was once considered tough was really inefficiency. |
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 17, 2014 13:11:43 GMT -6
I'm still fairly young in my coaching career. I've only been doing this for eight years. I've had players I coached my first year come back and tell me I've grown soft. I look back at what I did my first year and I think I was an idiot lol.
If it's accountability and standards, you owe it to him to tell him you think the program is failing the kids in those areas. If it's conditioning, lifting, etc. then just ask him why he doesn't do it anymore.
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Post by jg78 on Aug 17, 2014 13:38:42 GMT -6
Doesn't nearly every former player think things were much tougher, and their old coach was much more demanding when they played?? Man, yeah. Everyone thinks they were better and tougher back in their day than they really were. That's common. One thing I would like to point out is that doing something harder or longer doesn't necessarily mean better. I remember at one point as a young HC we ran stadium steps endlessly, flipped tires, used sledgehammers, etc. Things that (now) I think were overkill and would not have done if I were to go back to that time. Now, I would have kept to a conventional workout and nixed all the tough guy stuff that probably did more to wear them out than make them stronger and tougher. Sometimes less is more. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Aug 17, 2014 13:48:13 GMT -6
As a player:
the weight room was open without supervision from Dec-April 30. I did my own thing which consisted mostly of sipping water and hitting on the cute girls that worked out with us. Sometimes I'd even lift!
May football was expected but not mandatory to play in the fall. We practiced 2.5 hours.
June-Aug was regulated a little more my soph yr, less jr/sr. Open 8-10. We had a workout on the board.
Aug-Nov we practiced 2.5 hrs a day, but no weights with it. We did no 7on7s- ever. No weekend workouts or film.
As a head coach:
Weight room is open Jan-April 30 and every second is regulated by me.
Practices are 3 hours, and we lift for 30 min every day in that 3 hr period.
May football is mandatory to play in the fall.
We do 7on7 in the summer.
June-July we have workouts 4 days a week for 2 hrs and every second is regulated.
Most guys I know hold weekend workouts/film (we don't).
It's harder now.
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 17, 2014 14:41:11 GMT -6
We definitely were much tougher back in the day.
We didn't have trainers. That meant you were tougher automatically because you 'walked it off" when you got hurt and then you played a couple of downs later. There was no golf cart to drive off in. You walked off or got carried off and you certainly didn't get babied when you were hurt. you sat on the bench with an ice pack until you got a ride to the ER if you bothered to go.
Coaches could smack you, swear, spit on you while screaming in your face, even pad up and run you over a few times to make a point.
We didn't have limitations on wearing gear, any time of year, no limits on practice lengths or amount of contact. hell we didn't even have these soft hand shields , we had big canvas bags filled with sand for dummies. they were hard as heck. We got water maybe twice in a practice. It was usually from a hose.
we conditioned a lot and quitting was seen much differently back then. Nowadays a kid quits and his pals quit with him. Back then, you were ostrasized and even the newspapers would talk about it. "Hank quit the gridiron club" - blocking and tackling seemed extremely physical but everyone could do it because wed all grown up playing backyard /sandlot tackle football and did it every weekend in the endzones of the high school football games. I cant remember the last time kids did that at our field.
Also, it was power I , Wing T, wishbone, straight T every week. The "modern" guys were running pro I and I wing.
Only tough thing that kids do more of now that we did less back then is lift. Our weight programs were limited and often haphazardly mixed with distance running and calisthenics. We jumped rope a lot. We pushed the sled or did updowns constantly. pushups, situps, neck isos- all that stuff was every day. |
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Post by fantom on Aug 17, 2014 14:56:17 GMT -6
As a player: the weight room was open without supervision from Dec-April 30. I did my own thing which consisted mostly of sipping water and hitting on the cute girls that worked out with us. Sometimes I'd even lift! May football was expected but not mandatory to play in the fall. We practiced 2.5 hours. June-Aug was regulated a little more my soph yr, less jr/sr. Open 8-10. We had a workout on the board. Aug-Nov we practiced 2.5 hrs a day, but no weights with it. We did no 7on7s- ever. No weekend workouts or film. As a head coach: Weight room is open Jan-April 30 and every second is regulated by me. Practices are 3 hours, and we lift for 30 min every day in that 3 hr period. May football is mandatory to play in the fall. We do 7on7 in the summer. June-July we have workouts 4 days a week for 2 hrs and every second is regulated. Most guys I know hold weekend workouts/film (we don't). It's harder now. We demand more in the offseason now but the inseason practices aren't as tough, not even close. When I played there was a lot of laps, wind sprints, agility dills (more conditioning than agility), grass drills, Oklahoma, and full scrimmaging (but not much water).That made sense in the '60's and '70's. There wasn't much offseason conditioning so we needed to get worked into shape. We don't need to do that now. So, whether it was tougher then or now depends on how you define "tough". |
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 17, 2014 15:59:01 GMT -6
The style of play has changed quite a bit. The game is still physical but you have far fewer goal line/short yardage style offenses every down all over the field. I mean I know we had some games where our base defense for the week was "83 Blood" - nowadays someone would be threatened by the name of the defense.
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Post by natenator on Aug 17, 2014 16:40:50 GMT -6
I mean I know we had some games where our base defense for the week was "83 Blood" - nowadays someone would be threatened by the name of the defense. I have a 7 man blitz package that I let our D (15/16 year olds) name. They came up with kill'em all. You wouldn't believe the comments I get from parents when they hear their little Johnny's shouting 'kill'em all' on the field during a game lol |
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