rosi
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Post by rosi on Jul 30, 2014 10:19:41 GMT -6
Coaches, I am european coach. Yes, I like NFL and college football but HS is on first place for me. I do not why but I like De la Salle HS. Maybe when I read book about them some years (8?) ago.
They are playing "old school" SBV (alike as J.T. Curtis HS) on offense and they have wins over years.
What is the "magic formula" that program?
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Post by coachphillip on Jul 30, 2014 10:33:11 GMT -6
1. Amazing coaching. Their position coaches are great technicians. They are very detail oriented and stress the fundamentals. This is most evident in their line play.
2. Staff continuity. Those guys have been there for decades. They know their stuff and know how to implement it.
3. Off season program. They work year round and bust their butts in the weight room.
4. Mike Blasquez. Lad, Eidson, Panella, Alliotti ... all great coaches. But, Blasquez took them to another level. He's such a gifted S&C coach that he was hired from DLS straight to Cal. His former pupils who went to the NFL still train with him in the offseason.
5A. They can have any kid within the greater Bay Area. They're the only catholic high school in their area. If a kid goes to parochial school his whole life in that area then that's where he goes to high school.
5B. They're DLS. It's going to be even worse now that the movie is out. If you're anywhere halfway decent in the Bay, there's only one school you want to play for and it's DLS.
Honestly, one of the big "secrets" is to have better kids than the teams you play. Their OL/DL last year had sons of Reggie McKenzie and Larry Allen! Some of us get kids like that once a decade. They got them on the same dang line. As much as they have going in terms of doing things the right way, they also have some prize pieces on the field.
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rosi
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Posts: 359
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Post by rosi on Jul 30, 2014 11:30:41 GMT -6
1. Amazing coaching. Their position coaches are great technicians. They are very detail oriented and stress the fundamentals. This is most evident in their line play. 2. Staff continuity. Those guys have been there for decades. They know their stuff and know how to implement it. 3. Off season program. They work year round and bust their butts in the weight room. 4. Mike Blasquez. Lad, Eidson, Panella, Alliotti ... all great coaches. But, Blasquez took them to another level. He's such a gifted S&C coach that he was hired from DLS straight to Cal. His former pupils who went to the NFL still train with him in the offseason. 5A. They can have any kid within the greater Bay Area. They're the only catholic high school in their area. If a kid goes to parochial school his whole life in that area then that's where he goes to high school. 5B. They're DLS. It's going to be even worse now that the movie is out. If you're anywhere halfway decent in the Bay, there's only one school you want to play for and it's DLS. Honestly, one of the big "secrets" is to have better kids than the teams you play. Their OL/DL last year had sons of Reggie McKenzie and Larry Allen! Some of us get kids like that once a decade. They got them on the same dang line. As much as they have going in terms of doing things the right way, they also have some prize pieces on the field. thank you. I believe that situation was different twenty years ago but they had success on that time too. interesting...
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Post by coachhenry27 on Jul 31, 2014 10:51:04 GMT -6
Not that different. I played DLS when Amani Toomer (NFL WR) was on the team in 1990. They had Aaron Taylor a few years before that, Patrick Walsh (think he was their all-time leading rusher for awhile and played at San Jose State), etc. They have always been able to get the best players from around the area. Muarice Jones-Drew played all of his youth football in Antioch (would have attended Antioch High School) but ended up at DLS. They have some particular advantages, but like coachphillip said the basics is 1) that they get talented individuals, 2) make them better athletically through their S&C program, 3) make them better fundamentally/technically with their simplified system and excellent coaching and 4) develop their commitment/dedication/sacrifice to the team through the "brotherhood" of the football program. it is a model that has worked for a long time and continues to work.
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rosi
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Post by rosi on Jul 31, 2014 13:30:20 GMT -6
Not that different. I played DLS when Amani Toomer (NFL WR) was on the team in 1990. They had Aaron Taylor a few years before that, Patrick Walsh (think he was their all-time leading rusher for awhile and played at San Jose State), etc. They have always been able to get the best players from around the area. Muarice Jones-Drew played all of his youth football in Antioch (would have attended Antioch High School) but ended up at DLS. They have some particular advantages, but like coachphillip said the basics is 1) that they get talented individuals, 2) make them better athletically through their S&C program, 3) make them better fundamentally/technically with their simplified system and excellent coaching and 4) develop their commitment/dedication/sacrifice to the team through the "brotherhood" of the football program. it is a model that has worked for a long time and continues to work. Coach, I believe that it was good experience for you:-). I think that I understand (and I still believe that they recruit players fair way...) all but what do you mean "their simplified system"?
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Post by coachphillip on Jul 31, 2014 14:36:24 GMT -6
They run Split Back Veer on offense and base out of a 4-4 on defense. They're very good at what they do and don't try to do more than they need to win on a consistent basis. They dabble in other plays, but when they face an opponent with equal talent and they need to get something going, they go back to Split Back Veer.
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Post by hsrose on Jul 31, 2014 14:39:42 GMT -6
I was in the bar of a restaurant in Las Vegas several years ago and California was playing one of the first state bowl games. DLS playing somebody. Heard the guys at the next table talking about the green team and who they were, couldn't figure out which college they were. Didn't recognize the colors and logo. Told them they were a HS team from NorCal and they didn't believe me.
They run a pretty simple offense, split back veer, and change the accessories as the players come through. They are tough, dedicated, focused, and yes, talented.
Kahlil McKenzie has now left DLS and is going to play at Clayton Valley Charter, the school that Tim Murphy is coaching. McKenzie is apparently now the #1 recruit for Rivals and has verbaled to Tennessee. The word is he wanted to go to the camp circuit, DLS said we'd like you to be here for workouts, he went on the camp circuit, and now he's at CVC.
DLS is not the only religious school in the area - Bishop O'Dowd, Moreau Catholic, I think there are a couple of others in the area. The best religious schools are in the San Jose/South Bay/peninsula (WCAL) area. But they draw from all over, that is very, very true.
Do they recruit, probably, possibly, heck I don't know. If you had the money and wanted your player to have a chance at playing for the best, where would you go? I have nothing but respect and admiration for their program. The sustained level of excellence is not likely to be seen again anytime soon. Some day teams will schedule DLS as a break in their schedule, but not this year.
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 31, 2014 15:09:10 GMT -6
yes they recruit
i don't know about actual DLS coaches talking to kids and parents but their parent/booster network is so extensive they have some one at most youth and freshman games around trying to talk to talented players and getting them over
when i coached at my alma mater (located in same city) one year we had these 2 absolute studs on the freshman teams one day 2 individuals came by the school, said they wanted to speak to these two about coming to DLS (do not know if they were actual coaches are just boosters/supporters) but they actually came on to our campus and wanted to talk to these kids about coming over
luckily our HC was campus security and kicked them out they just have so many resources even if an actual coach doesnt talk to a kid, someone who wants to see DLS succeed can and will talk to any youth or freshman player who is really good
I have even heard stories of DLS supporters buying cheap cars and gas cards to help commuting players get to school
obviously better talent helps, but they still develop players and coach players better than probably anyone else around
next best in the area is probably Tim Murphy in terms of player development
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Post by jg78 on Jul 31, 2014 15:27:33 GMT -6
That is the big secret. You coach long enough and see the game from every perspective - bad teams, average teams, great teams - you realize that winning is mostly about the players. I'm sure DLS has as fine a coaching staff and general program as there is, but they aren't making chicken salad out of chicken manure over there. No one who wins like they do is hurting for players.
Nick Saban is treated like a genius by everyone in the coaching fraternity, and he is a great coach. I'm not saying he isn't. But how many of us have walked on the field with the favored team every game for 4+ years?
Coaching makes a difference. All of us believe that or we wouldn't be here trying to learn. But you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a mule.
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Post by blb on Jul 31, 2014 16:13:50 GMT -6
...except the "Ole' Ball Coach" (Steve Superior).
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Post by silkyice on Jul 31, 2014 17:33:37 GMT -6
That is the big secret. You coach long enough and see the game from every perspective - bad teams, average teams, great teams - you realize that winning is mostly about the players. I'm sure DLS has as fine a coaching staff and general program as there is, but they aren't making chicken salad out of chicken manure over there. No one who wins like they do is hurting for players. Nick Saban is treated like a genius by everyone in the coaching fraternity, and he is a great coach. I'm not saying he isn't. But how many of us have walked on the field with the favored team every game for 4+ years? Coaching makes a difference. All of us believe that or we wouldn't be here trying to learn. But you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a mule. I agree with everything. But I will say that Saban's main job is recruiting, while that is not true of 99% of high school coaches.
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Post by Coach.A on Jul 31, 2014 20:58:02 GMT -6
I have the utmost respect for the DLS coaching staff. That being said, having elite athletes on the roster is the main reason for their success at the national level (i.e. Top 10 rankings in the country)
Look how many D1 and NFL athletes came out of their program. Did DLS coaching have anything to do with the post-secondary school success of these athletes? Absolutely it did! BUT I can guarantee if you transplanted their full coaching staff to some random school in Maine or Vermont or South Dakota...you wouldn't see as many D1 scholarship athletes and NFL players coming their school.
Bottom line, they're doing it right at DLS, but having access to elite athletes is what's getting them national level recognition each year.
As for the recruiting discussion...the ability to recruit well is what determines a great coach nowadays. Unfortunately this 'coaching requirement' has trickled down to the high school level, and in my opinion, that shouldn't be what high school sports are about.
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fugulookinat
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"Eye see DEAD people!"
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Post by fugulookinat on Jul 31, 2014 22:47:16 GMT -6
In Texas, private schools compete in an entirely different State Championship. No one really puts any emphasis on the private schools because of recruiting. Not taking anything away from De La Salle, but I would love to see them play a private school from Dallas that got the best players from Allen, DeSoto, Euless Trinity, Southlake Carroll, Cedar Hill. I doubt if it would end up like it does in the bay.
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Post by powerfootball71 on Jul 31, 2014 22:48:24 GMT -6
In Texas, private schools compete in an entirely different State Championship. No one really puts any emphasis on the private schools because of recruiting. Not taking anything away from De La Salle, but I would love to see them play a private school from Dallas that got the best players from Allen, DeSoto, Euless Trinity, Southlake Carroll, Cedar Hill. I doubt if it would end up like it does in the bay. A public school from Washington held there own with them.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 31, 2014 23:07:13 GMT -6
That is the big secret. You coach long enough and see the game from every perspective - bad teams, average teams, great teams - you realize that winning is mostly about the players. I'm sure DLS has as fine a coaching staff and general program as there is, but they aren't making chicken salad out of chicken manure over there. No one who wins like they do is hurting for players. Nick Saban is treated like a genius by everyone in the coaching fraternity, and he is a great coach. I'm not saying he isn't. But how many of us have walked on the field with the favored team every game for 4+ years? Coaching makes a difference. All of us believe that or we wouldn't be here trying to learn. But you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a mule. Do you remember the first year He was at Bama? They struggled going 9-6 (some very close wins in that win column) and barely won the independence bowl against Colorado. But Saban (and Steele, you can't forget that guy) installed the method and discipline and turned that program Into what it is. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards
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rosi
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Post by rosi on Jul 31, 2014 23:31:18 GMT -6
coaches, interesting reading for me. I think that HS can not recruiting players. I reading that private yes and public no, if I understand well. but when I think about that DLS could play with others private HS then is interesting that they make their wins with SBV compared to much modern offenses. And the same is J.T. Curtis. Yes, coaches on this blog have tought me that every is about execution... but that is still interesting for me
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Post by jg78 on Aug 1, 2014 6:32:07 GMT -6
That is the big secret. You coach long enough and see the game from every perspective - bad teams, average teams, great teams - you realize that winning is mostly about the players. I'm sure DLS has as fine a coaching staff and general program as there is, but they aren't making chicken salad out of chicken manure over there. No one who wins like they do is hurting for players. Nick Saban is treated like a genius by everyone in the coaching fraternity, and he is a great coach. I'm not saying he isn't. But how many of us have walked on the field with the favored team every game for 4+ years? Coaching makes a difference. All of us believe that or we wouldn't be here trying to learn. But you can't win the Kentucky Derby with a mule. Do you remember the first year He was at Bama? They struggled going 9-6 (some very close wins in that win column) and barely won the independence bowl against Colorado. But Saban (and Steele, you can't forget that guy) installed the method and discipline and turned that program Into what it is. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards Bama went 7-6 in 2007 and lost to La. Monroe, which should never happen. He definitely turned the program around from there and has had a great run since. However, bringing in players like Julio Jones, Mark Ingram, Dante Hightower, etc. the next year quickly upgraded the talent level and helped a lot. Saban deserves a ton of credit for that because, as silkyice pointed out, recruiting is a major, major part of college coaching. But I'm separating that aspect of it from on-field coaching.
What Saban has done at Bama is phenomenal. But if he were at Iowa State, would he get within binocular range of a national championship trophy? No. And if the DLS guys were at any of the landlocked bottom feeder programs that we all face each year, would they run off 100+ game winning streaks? Hell no.
The DLS coaches may be the best at what they do, and I'm sure we all could learn a lot from the way they do things. However, I bet we could put a staff together from the coaches posting on this thread and give us the most talented team in a given league and give the DLS guys an average team from that same league and we would win - probably easily.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 1, 2014 8:20:45 GMT -6
It never ceases to amaze me how as a nation and people in the same profession we love to promote the idea of success, but whenever someone actually achieves it we do whatever we can to marginalize it or excuse it away.
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Post by jg78 on Aug 1, 2014 10:58:33 GMT -6
It never ceases to amaze me how as a nation and people in the same profession we love to promote the idea of success, but whenever someone actually achieves it we do whatever we can to marginalize it or excuse it away. I have coached 12 years, won two state titles as DC, state runner-up as an HC, and we were 10-3 last year (losing twice to the eventual undefeated state champion) with pretty much the whole team coming back this year. We are one of the favorites to win it all and will have a good chance against everyone we play. I have had plenty of success too. I'm certainly not sitting here with a 2-8 team every year and trying to make excuses for it. I am proud of what the teams I have coached have accomplished.
But I have also been 4-6 and 5-5 as a DC. I have been 3-7 as a HC. I have been all across the coaching spectrum and back and I know that in the years we have been highly successful we had much better players than in the years we weren't. When I went 12-1 as DC one year and 4-6 as DC at the same school the next year, I didn't forget how to coach. We lost 20+ seniors and almost all of our starters. That's the reason we struggled. When I went 3-7 as an HC one year and 10-3 and state runner-up (losing twice to schools in larger classifications) the next year, I didn't learn anything revolutionary. What mattered most was that we dropped a class and had all of our key players back, plus we picked up a good LB/OG. That was what really made the difference. Our talent (relative to our competition) was much better the next year.
In my opinion, each team has an approximate number of games that it should probably win. A great coach may turn 8-2 talent into 9-1 or 10-0. A bad coach may turn 8-2 talent into 7-3 or 6-4. On average, there's probably a variance of a couple of games each year based on good and bad coaching. But for a program like DLS to put together 150 game winning streak, there's a helluva lot more to that than just great coaching. Maybe they maximized their resources (probably so and good for them) but you could take that same staff and put them at many different schools in the country and they would have hard time even mustering a winning season, much less huge winning streaks.
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fugulookinat
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"Eye see DEAD people!"
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Post by fugulookinat on Aug 1, 2014 11:05:46 GMT -6
It never ceases to amaze me how as a nation and people in the same profession we love to promote the idea of success, but whenever someone actually achieves it we do whatever we can to marginalize it or excuse it away. I have coached 12 years, won two state titles as DC, state runner-up as an HC, and we were 10-3 last year (losing twice to the eventual undefeated state champion) with pretty much the whole team coming back this year. We are one of the favorites to win it all and will have a good chance against everyone we play. I have had plenty of success too. I'm certainly not sitting here with a 2-8 team every year and trying to make excuses for it. I am proud of what the teams I have coached have accomplished.
But I have also been 4-6 and 5-5 as a DC. I have been 3-7 as a HC. I have been all across the coaching spectrum and back and I know that in the years we have been highly successful we had much better players than in the years we weren't. When I went 12-1 as DC one year and 4-6 as DC at the same school the next year, I didn't forget how to coach. We lost 20+ seniors and almost all of our starters. That's the reason we struggled. When I went 3-7 as an HC one year and 10-3 and state runner-up (losing twice to schools in larger classifications) the next year, I didn't learn anything revolutionary. What mattered most was that we dropped a class and had all of our key players back, plus we picked up a good LB/OG. That was what really made the difference. Our talent (relative to our competition) was much better the next year.
In my opinion, each team has an approximate number of games that it should probably win. A great coach may turn 8-2 talent into 9-1 or 10-0. A bad coach may turn 8-2 talent into 7-3 or 6-4. On average, there's probably a variance of a couple of games each year based on good and bad coaching. But for a program like DLS to put together 150 game winning streak, there's a helluva lot more to that than just great coaching. Maybe they maximized their resources (probably so and good for them) but you could take that same staff and put them at many different schools in the country and they would have hard time even mustering a winning season, much less huge winning streaks.
Very well put.
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Post by 33coach on Aug 1, 2014 14:35:20 GMT -6
It never ceases to amaze me how as a nation and people in the same profession we love to promote the idea of success, but whenever someone actually achieves it we do whatever we can to marginalize it or excuse it away. I have coached 12 years, won two state titles as DC, state runner-up as an HC, and we were 10-3 last year (losing twice to the eventual undefeated state champion) with pretty much the whole team coming back this year. We are one of the favorites to win it all and will have a good chance against everyone we play. I have had plenty of success too. I'm certainly not sitting here with a 2-8 team every year and trying to make excuses for it. I am proud of what the teams I have coached have accomplished.
But I have also been 4-6 and 5-5 as a DC. I have been 3-7 as a HC. I have been all across the coaching spectrum and back and I know that in the years we have been highly successful we had much better players than in the years we weren't. When I went 12-1 as DC one year and 4-6 as DC at the same school the next year, I didn't forget how to coach. We lost 20+ seniors and almost all of our starters. That's the reason we struggled. When I went 3-7 as an HC one year and 10-3 and state runner-up (losing twice to schools in larger classifications) the next year, I didn't learn anything revolutionary. What mattered most was that we dropped a class and had all of our key players back, plus we picked up a good LB/OG. That was what really made the difference. Our talent (relative to our competition) was much better the next year.
In my opinion, each team has an approximate number of games that it should probably win. A great coach may turn 8-2 talent into 9-1 or 10-0. A bad coach may turn 8-2 talent into 7-3 or 6-4. On average, there's probably a variance of a couple of games each year based on good and bad coaching. But for a program like DLS to put together 150 game winning streak, there's a helluva lot more to that than just great coaching. Maybe they maximized their resources (probably so and good for them) but you could take that same staff and put them at many different schools in the country and they would have hard time even mustering a winning season, much less huge winning streaks.
I cant argue with that coach! (probably the first time in history that i have no argument..so congratulations )
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Post by 90rocket on Aug 1, 2014 21:28:32 GMT -6
There is a Catholic School in our league who has a few athletes but is VERY poorly coached. The HC always complains how he gets no talent and our section has now accepted a 3 way merger between the three Catholic Schools in our league without moving up in classification.
I always want to ask the guy, "What are you doing to make your athletes better?" I, along with many of you open the weight room several days a week before and after school, summer, extensive practice planning, hours of film prep, etc.
Now this guy is going to be loaded in talent, and I know he doesn't do half of what I or many of you do. It is what it is I guess.
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Post by veerman on Aug 1, 2014 21:55:21 GMT -6
There is No winning without some talent. Coaching only makes up about 10-15% of how a team is going to do. Sometimes we like our egos stroked and think we play a major part but if you sit back and be honest, we will realize the truth.
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rosi
Junior Member
Posts: 359
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Post by rosi on Aug 2, 2014 1:11:11 GMT -6
There is No winning without some talent. Coaching only makes up about 10-15% of how a team is going to do. Sometimes we like our egos stroked and think we play a major part but if you sit back and be honest, we will realize the truth. Coach, really do you mean that coaching is only about 15%? How much is talent? What are others attributes success of football program / team? Thank you.
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Post by gators1422 on Aug 2, 2014 5:11:40 GMT -6
In Texas, private schools compete in an entirely different State Championship. No one really puts any emphasis on the private schools because of recruiting. Not taking anything away from De La Salle, but I would love to see them play a private school from Dallas that got the best players from Allen, DeSoto, Euless Trinity, Southlake Carroll, Cedar Hill. I doubt if it would end up like it does in the bay. We saw how that would turn out a few years ago. They played St Thomas Aquinas from Fla and were railroaded 30-6. That was a St Thomas team that didn't even win its district. According to maxpreps since 2004 they played 2 Fla teams and are 0-2. Neither of those teams from Fla won their state title.
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Post by CS on Aug 2, 2014 5:48:49 GMT -6
There is No winning without some talent. Coaching only makes up about 10-15% of how a team is going to do. Sometimes we like our egos stroked and think we play a major part but if you sit back and be honest, we will realize the truth. Coach, really do you mean that coaching is only about 15%? How much is talent? What are others attributes success of football program / team? Thank you. I wouldn't take those number literally rosi. I'm sure he was just throwing numbers out to make a point. But talent and team chemistry is the most important attributes to any great team IMO. coaching plays a part in that we are like a side dish. Those two things are the main dish but a steak is always better with a potato.
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Post by blb on Aug 2, 2014 6:17:17 GMT -6
There is No winning without some talent. Coaching only makes up about 10-15% of how a team is going to do. Sometimes we like our egos stroked and think we play a major part but if you sit back and be honest, we will realize the truth. Coach, really do you mean that coaching is only about 15%? How much is talent? What are others attributes success of football program / team? Thank you.
Bear Bryant said, "Football, more than any other, is a coaches' game."
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Post by newt21 on Aug 3, 2014 12:55:26 GMT -6
There is No winning without some talent. Coaching only makes up about 10-15% of how a team is going to do. Sometimes we like our egos stroked and think we play a major part but if you sit back and be honest, we will realize the truth. I find it very difficult to believe that coaching would amount to so little. If this were true, why would coaches spend all the time and effort to go to clinics, watch film, and such to only amount to 10-15%? I believe that a great coach can take a bad team into a mediocre team, mediocre team into a good team, a good team into a great team. A great coach can't turn a bad team into a great team, but they can still improve their kids chances of winning none the less.
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Post by blb on Aug 3, 2014 13:10:56 GMT -6
FWIW -
Someone (I forget who) said about Bear Bryant,
"He can take his'n and beat your'n.
"And he could take your'n, and beat his'n."
When I was in college I worked for our basketball coach who went on to coach for ten years at a Big Ten school, won over 500 career games.
He told me "A bad coach can do less for a good team than a good coach for a bad team."
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Post by 33coach on Aug 3, 2014 13:46:44 GMT -6
FWIW - Someone (I forget who) said about Bear Bryant, "He can take his'n and beat your'n. "And he could take your'n, and beat his'n." When I was in college I worked for our basketball coach who went on to coach for ten years at a Big Ten school, won over 500 career games. He told me "A bad coach can do less for a good team than a good coach can for a bad team." those are great quotes...and both 100% true.
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