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Post by gators1422 on Apr 10, 2014 16:32:40 GMT -6
OK looking for other perspectives. We have a kid who is a junior, he was caught by his parents with weed his sophomore season. They punished him and we as a team did also. We ran him and he was suspended from a game. Then right before spring he and some friends were caught smoking up town. The parents came to the coaches and agreed that him being on the team was a good thing and not the problem. We suspended him for the spring game, kickoff classic and two regular season games. No problems. Kid is never a problem, good kid great parents. Well he was dating a crazy bi*** of a girl who has been graduated. He broke up with her, then out of the blue yesterday an anonymous phone call comes into the school telling them he has weed in his truck in the passenger door panel. They check and sure enough its there. The kid swears she set him up and now some other kids are saying she is bragging about it. Anyway the kid got arrested. Luckily the sheriff is looking into the claim that it was planted. We had already told him if he is caught again he is done no questions asked. If it can't be proven its his what do we do as a staff. We want to be fair but we are not going to let him break the rules. Just a awkward situation. Looking for outside perspectives.
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Post by bruinfb on Apr 10, 2014 17:00:10 GMT -6
Here is my initial thought when I read this.
Unless he is exonerated by the cops and they determine that the girl did set him up, I would get rid of him. If you already said that he would be gone "no questions asked", I think that you have to stick to it. Nothing undercuts authority like saying you are going to do something and then not sticking to it.
I don't know the whole situation or the kid, so I am not saying this has to be the way, just my feeling on it.
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Post by gators1422 on Apr 10, 2014 18:16:36 GMT -6
They are supposed finger print the bag and check the # that made the anonymous phone call. I guess my question is if he is let off do we act as if it never happened?? I know we can't legally but we have discussed asking him to take a drug test if he's cleared.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 18:22:24 GMT -6
If he's found innocent, yes you do act like it never happened because he wasn't at fault. If it's proven he was framed, there's nothing to hold against him.
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Post by coachorm on Apr 10, 2014 18:52:11 GMT -6
If they prove it was planted I agree act like it never happened. You might even praise him for getting out of an obviously cancerous relationship and trying to get straight. If its his though you have to let him go cause this is the 3rd time and its obviously not sinking in to his head that you mean business. Plus if you let this slide what message are you sending to the rest of your team.
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Post by CS on Apr 10, 2014 19:19:45 GMT -6
OK looking for other perspectives. We have a kid who is a junior, he was caught by his parents with weed his sophomore season. They punished him and we as a team did also. We ran him and he was suspended from a game. Then right before spring he and some friends were caught smoking up town. The parents came to the coaches and agreed that him being on the team was a good thing and not the problem. We suspended him for the spring game, kickoff classic and two regular season games. No problems. Kid is never a problem, good kid great parents. Well he was dating a crazy bi*** of a girl who has been graduated. He broke up with her, then out of the blue yesterday an anonymous phone call comes into the school telling them he has weed in his truck in the passenger door panel. They check and sure enough its there. The kid swears she set him up and now some other kids are saying she is bragging about it. Anyway the kid got arrested. Luckily the sheriff is looking into the claim that it was planted. We had already told him if he is caught again he is done no questions asked. If it can't be proven its his what do we do as a staff. We want to be fair but we are not going to let him break the rules. Just a awkward situation. Looking for outside perspectives. My first thought was what the sh!t do you have to do with what his parents found him doing at home? Are you gonna run him if they catch him spanking off to some free internet porn? The only one to me that even mattered was the being caught at school one. If he's guilty he's done if he's not he plays. |
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Post by gators1422 on Apr 10, 2014 20:21:02 GMT -6
Appreciate all the responses. I guess we were looking at it like we've told him to get away from her and now its caught up with him. But I see now that you guys might be right, he has gotten away from her and he is distancing himself from a problem.
As far as disciplining kids for things that don't happen at school. It happens all the time, we live in a really small community. Everyone hears everything so no matter where something happens people sometimes look to the coaches to do something about it because the kids put so much into and care so much about football. That's why the parents came to us before. They punished him severely but they didn't want it to end there. They didn't want to take football away because they thought it was good for him, but they wanted the threat of it there.
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Post by holmesbend on Apr 10, 2014 21:14:07 GMT -6
I hate having to pretend like I care if a kid gets caught for smoking weed. Like Kat Williams has said, "Go smoke a tylenol bottle full of weed and you are gonna wake up hungry ans sleepy.....take every tylenol pill in that bottle and IT WILL BE YOUR LAST headache." Heck, in college...several of my teammates, a couple of which are still my closest friends (and, very successful in their chosen careers, marriages and fathers) smoked the absolute crap out of it (and, had the balls enough to bring it with them on away games)...but, they were smart enough not to get caught and/or make it an issue.
This kid obviously has problems with it becoming to issue, and that's when it becomes a problem.
It's like those of us in our professional lives. We all probably know people who smoke it up still (the guys I mentioned above still do), and it doesn't effect them in ANY capacity when it comes to their work or family lives. To those I say...live it up.
Obviously this kid has some issues with it, and is letting those issues effect him when it comes to being part of the TEAM. It would be hard not to cut him loose.
Question, though? Who caught him the 2nd time? Parents, cops or both? From your post...it looks as though the only time it's been school affiliated is this last time. That's a tough call. I'm caught somewhere between cutting him loose and what Lou Holtz said, "Discipline is something we do FOR kids, not TO them."
I have an assistant coach who gets tore up (his son is on our team, so naturally he hears things from his son) about kids that we have who might have a couple beers on the weekend, smoked a J, smokes cigs, etc. on the weekend. I mean...he gets tore up.
Be it right or wrong, I'm one of these that if not caught by the law or school...out of sight out of mind (unless a parent of the kids in question come to me, which I havent had happen).
Ironically...the coach I talk about, his son was a senior this year....all choir boys. If ever such a thing as being TOO good of kids, they were it...we didn't win a game. In the previous 5 years, we've done relatively really well for a little ole rural school and every year I KNOW FOR A FACT that we had a kid or two like the one you speak of in our senior classes. The difference? They were smart enough not to get caught or let it effect their academic/athletic performance.
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 11, 2014 2:42:55 GMT -6
"Kid is never a problem"
This is part of the problem. His sounds very much like a problem and blaming it on who he is or was dating is absolutely silly.
He has been caught doing illegal things more than once and the penalties haven't been harsh enough to deter him. You are now expending energy on it and him and hes become a distraction.
You don't crumble him up and throw him away but you also have to stop with thinking hes not a problem. Clearly, he has issues and has become a bit of a problem. Everyone who looks the other way and makes excuses for his decisions is at fault.
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Post by gators1422 on Apr 11, 2014 3:40:59 GMT -6
Obviously his discretions are a problem. I mean he's never a problem outside of the times he's been caught with the weed.The kid is yes sir and no sir, always there, on time and always dependable. I'm definitely not a blame it on something else kind of guy. My initial reaction was he's done, no questions asked. I just thought it would be nice to have other people's perspective. Just hate to throw a kid away if you think you can help him. Thanks for the responses thus far.
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Post by rystaylo on Apr 11, 2014 4:58:30 GMT -6
If the cops find him guilty then do whatever you said you would prior, or follow your rules/school procedures.
If not, then let it go.
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Post by coachhunt on Apr 11, 2014 5:09:30 GMT -6
As i coach, i'm sticking with my player to the end, as long as he is committed and is a good teammate. Maybe he needs support and a place to be away from the people that are a bad influence on him, football and me as a coach can provide that. Even if he is found guilty, i would never kick him of the team. He is a KID, and he has made poor decisions, he will be judged by so many people, he doesn't need one more. Stick with him, and if he comes out all right, you will have done more to him than just teach him football!
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Post by CS on Apr 11, 2014 5:16:38 GMT -6
Appreciate all the responses. I guess we were looking at it like we've told him to get away from her and now its caught up with him. But I see now that you guys might be right, he has gotten away from her and he is distancing himself from a problem. As far as disciplining kids for things that don't happen at school. It happens all the time, we live in a really small community. Everyone hears everything so no matter where something happens people sometimes look to the coaches to do something about it because the kids put so much into and care so much about football. That's why the parents came to us before. They punished him severely but they didn't want it to end there. They didn't want to take football away because they thought it was good for him, but they wanted the threat of it there. And why can't the PARENTS take football away? I just can't see where it is any of your business if they had already punished him that should have been that. they're trying to pass the buck on to the coaching staff and you're letting them. |
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Post by gators1422 on Apr 11, 2014 6:46:08 GMT -6
They can take it away. They discussed it with the staff. Saying that they thought football was most important to him and they would like to take it away for punishment. But they thought overall him being on the team was a better influence than punishment. So they asked us to be a part of the punishment with suspensions and running. Actually the parents were not pawning off any responsibility, they were just looking for cooperation.
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 11, 2014 8:22:04 GMT -6
Do we really need to punish kids for incidents that happen outside of school where the police were not involved? Only incident that matters to me is this last one that happened on school grounds. If they find he was set up then nothing happens. If not then there are consequences.
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Post by 42falcon on Apr 11, 2014 13:05:57 GMT -6
You are not his parents. Does your school not have standards for the stuff on / at school?
We have a 0 tolerance drug policy get busted with drugs see you later. As far as the stick with my player stuff this isn't a gang .... Obviously he's done something wrong remove him from the team till it clears.
One thing we have not yet explored is: how "good" is the kid? Is he a stud?
Seems like a lot of second chances here
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Post by newhope on Apr 14, 2014 11:14:25 GMT -6
If the cops find him guilty then do whatever you said you would prior, or follow your rules/school procedures. If not, then let it go. This. You really have no other choice. You must do what you said you would do. If the cops find him innocent, then he's innocent and shouldn't be punished. |
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Post by jg78 on Apr 14, 2014 12:33:50 GMT -6
Seems pretty simple to me at this point. Suspend him from the team pending a police investigation. If the police find no evidence that he was framed, he's gone for good. If they do and the ex-g/f set him up, then (at least according to your rules) I would let him back on the team.
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 14, 2014 13:30:04 GMT -6
Follow your school's athletic code. Any more than that and you're just playing into the BS drama that this kid craves.
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Post by irishdog on Apr 14, 2014 14:35:52 GMT -6
It's a tough call. Kids make choices. Some good, some bad. Sounds as if this particular kid makes too many bad choices and it has finally caught up to him. IF he has truly broken off the relationship with the girl then he should be commended for making a good choice, and IF the police find he was indeed set-up, and they along with the school administration exonerate him he needs to know that it will be the TEAM'S decision as to whether they want him back as their team mate or not. If the outcome is otherwise just follow the school's policy.
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Post by carookie on Apr 14, 2014 18:48:54 GMT -6
Red Auerbach used to not have many rules, reason why is that he'd have to enforce them. Whether or not you think keeping him on the team would be best for him, or if you feel pot should be legal, you made a statement "once more and he's done."
Assuming he wasnt set up (because if he was the he didnt do anything wrong) you have to kick him off. If not you are establishing the precedence that your rules are worthless, and then no kid in the future would have to follow them. Youd be causing more harm in the long run.
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 15, 2014 5:47:52 GMT -6
My first thought was what the sh!t do you have to do with what his parents found him doing at home? Are you gonna run him if they catch him spanking off to some free internet porn? The only one to me that even mattered was the being caught at school one. If he's guilty he's done if he's not he plays. This. ^^^ I still have not been able to wrap my head around the idea that a school system should be responsible for handing out justice to kids for stuff that happens away from school. My thought is that a school has authority from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm (or whatever your school hours are), and at practice from 3 to 5, after that what business is it of the school. And I love the crap about when a player is out in the community "they represent the program". No they don't, they represent themselves. If I see a kid busted for pot, and he happens to be a baseball player, I don't automatically think all of the players on that team most smoke weed! I can (within reason) understand the during season reasoning for conduct policies, you want your players practicing self discipline and not doing something to jeapordize the rest of the team, but after that the school needs to stay the F out of a kids life. |
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Post by s73 on Apr 16, 2014 6:27:10 GMT -6
OK looking for other perspectives. We have a kid who is a junior, he was caught by his parents with weed his sophomore season. They punished him and we as a team did also. We ran him and he was suspended from a game. Then right before spring he and some friends were caught smoking up town. The parents came to the coaches and agreed that him being on the team was a good thing and not the problem. We suspended him for the spring game, kickoff classic and two regular season games. No problems. Kid is never a problem, good kid great parents. Well he was dating a crazy bi*** of a girl who has been graduated. He broke up with her, then out of the blue yesterday an anonymous phone call comes into the school telling them he has weed in his truck in the passenger door panel. They check and sure enough its there. The kid swears she set him up and now some other kids are saying she is bragging about it. Anyway the kid got arrested. Luckily the sheriff is looking into the claim that it was planted. We had already told him if he is caught again he is done no questions asked. If it can't be proven its his what do we do as a staff. We want to be fair but we are not going to let him break the rules. Just a awkward situation. Looking for outside perspectives. It bogles m ming that you guys don't have an athletic code that handles this for you. On our 3rd code violation they are gone by DISTRICT POLICY, hence taking the decision and more importantly the DRAMA out of my hands. I think your district/ administration is doing you a disservice by not having a plan in place. If the cops uncover he was set up (find that VERY hard to believe, you should start calling him OJ) then he's clear and free.....until the next time. Good luck. |
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 16, 2014 8:03:01 GMT -6
The one thing that bothers me about this whole situation is that the first two offenses had nothing to do with school and was brought to your attention by the players parents. I'm not doubting the kid was smoking weed, but where do we draw the line. What if some other adult from the community came to you saying I saw john and paul from your football team drinking beer in the park? Do we punish them? I still say if it doesn't happen on school campus or if the police aren't involved if off campus, then we shouldn't punish them, especially if it happens out of season. It becomes a witch hunt if we are responsible for punishing kids for off campus problems.
I'm not saying do nothing. Definitely talk to the kid, see if you can help him, but you're getting yourself in a sticky situation if we start punishing kids for off campus stuff.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by coachwilcox on Apr 16, 2014 11:05:09 GMT -6
My first thought was what the sh!t do you have to do with what his parents found him doing at home? Are you gonna run him if they catch him spanking off to some free internet porn? The only one to me that even mattered was the being caught at school one. If he's guilty he's done if he's not he plays. This. ^^^ I still have not been able to wrap my head around the idea that a school system should be responsible for handing out justice to kids for stuff that happens away from school. My thought is that a school has authority from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm (or whatever your school hours are), and at practice from 3 to 5, after that what business is it of the school. And I love the crap about when a player is out in the community "they represent the program". No they don't, they represent themselves. If I see a kid busted for pot, and he happens to be a baseball player, I don't automatically think all of the players on that team most smoke weed! I can (within reason) understand the during season reasoning for conduct policies, you want your players practicing self discipline and not doing something to jeapordize the rest of the team, but after that the school needs to stay the F out of a kids life. I couldn't disagree more. We should strive to hold kids to a standard. With that we must hold them responsible for what they do at school and away. Teach kids life lessons and talk about situations with them as often as possible so that when those situations arise, they know how to act and react. With this, you not only teach a young man how to mature and become a successful adult, you also create a disciplined team and program, which breeds winning. |
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 16, 2014 11:18:07 GMT -6
This. ^^^ I still have not been able to wrap my head around the idea that a school system should be responsible for handing out justice to kids for stuff that happens away from school. My thought is that a school has authority from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm (or whatever your school hours are), and at practice from 3 to 5, after that what business is it of the school. And I love the crap about when a player is out in the community "they represent the program". No they don't, they represent themselves. If I see a kid busted for pot, and he happens to be a baseball player, I don't automatically think all of the players on that team most smoke weed! I can (within reason) understand the during season reasoning for conduct policies, you want your players practicing self discipline and not doing something to jeapordize the rest of the team, but after that the school needs to stay the F out of a kids life. I couldn't disagree more. We should strive to hold kids to a standard. With that we must hold them responsible for what they do at school and away. Teach kids life lessons and talk about situations with them as often as possible so that when those situations arise, they know how to act and react. With this, you not only teach a young man how to mature and become a successful adult, you also create a disciplined team and program, which breeds winning. We all agree with you, but that's not the point. How can u punish a kid by takong away playing time for something outside of school on just hear say. Its a slippery slope. If you have people coming up to you saying johnny smoked weed at a party last weekend and you confront him and he denies it then what? We as coaches are going to waste time playing detective? The only reason that kid had two strikes was because his parents told on him. Pretty much those who deny deny deny get away with it and the honest ones like this kid and his parents get punished. Doesnt sound right to me. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by coachwilcox on Apr 16, 2014 17:37:12 GMT -6
Whether the kid has good parents or not. He was caught and he must be held accountable. With knowledge of his actions, you then are either condoning or turning away from those things he has committed. If you want to run a program where the players openly know, "hey I can smoke a little weed and still get caught, but coach don't care", then go for it. As for me. I let my players know up front, I will and can, based on BOE policy, that you can be drug tested. If you partake in those things, you are not heading down the same path as we are. Good luck to you but if you want to be a part of this team then you need to turn away from those things and make better decisions.
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 17, 2014 21:18:32 GMT -6
Whether the kid has good parents or not. He was caught and he must be held accountable. With knowledge of his actions, you then are either condoning or turning away from those things he has committed. If you want to run a program where the players openly know, "hey I can smoke a little weed and still get caught, but coach don't care", then go for it. As for me. I let my players know up front, I will and can, based on BOE policy, that you can be drug tested. If you partake in those things, you are not heading down the same path as we are. Good luck to you but if you want to be a part of this team then you need to turn away from those things and make better decisions. He was held accountable, read the OP. The issue is what to do about the alleged set up. I realize past discretions have given him a black eye and cast doubt on his story, but the fact is there are witnesses who say he was set up. Now to your point about not holding kids accountable, are you really as someone else said going to spend your time being a detecvtive? If some kid posts pictures of him puffin weed, then yes you can prove it. I am also not arguing about having some consequence if it is in season, but this stuff of being in kids business when they are away and out of season is over the line for me. Also, if I was a kid and some coach said he was going to drug test me, I would say I'll be right in line after the coaches. |
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jmg999
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Post by jmg999 on Apr 18, 2014 2:43:20 GMT -6
Even though you can't ask him to take a drug test, if the parents are truly committed to what's best for their child, you can suggest that they test him (in a round about way if necessary). Also, if you are really interested in helping this kid, even if you have to kick him off the team, you can tell him that you'd still like to make sure that he gets on the straight and narrow. I think that it's important that these kids understand that even though they may not be able to play for you anymore, it doesn't mean that everyone suddenly stops caring about them.
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Post by coachjd on Apr 18, 2014 6:10:12 GMT -6
First offense would have been 3 weeks or 3 games what ever is longer. 2nd offense would have been 7 weeks or 7 games what ever is longer. Our school adds one more week or contest from the recommendation from the Minnesota State HS league. No questions asked. 3rd offense is 16 weeks and drug and alcohol evaluation.
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