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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 21:51:36 GMT -6
I guess with me it's more a semantics thing than anything else. When you talked about those kids who came out and then were told they wouldn't play until Week 6, I guess I wouldn't say they quit. I would say you never really let them on the team. But, if it works for you guys, it works for you guys.
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 8, 2014 11:14:56 GMT -6
sometimes I amazed by the sheer number of coaches who apparently never quit at anything in their lives.
kids quit- talk to them, teach them, give them another shot. If they quit again, it wasn't for them and sadly you couldn't reach them, you cant be all things to all kids. Nobody can.
sometimes kids "quit" and take a year off, grow up, mature and realize they missed the game and their teammates. they come back.
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Post by s73 on Feb 8, 2014 11:35:05 GMT -6
sometimes I amazed by the sheer number of coaches who apparently never quit at anything in their lives. kids quit- talk to them, teach them, give them another shot. If they quit again, it wasn't for them and sadly you couldn't reach them, you cant be all things to all kids. Nobody can. sometimes kids "quit" and take a year off, grow up, mature and realize they missed the game and their teammates. they come back. I agree w/ your point here. My big issue w/ kids quitting is not that they quit but HOW SOME of them quit. I have a HUGE issue w/ kids who quit during the season and especially w/ kids who quit w/o telling me or another coach. Whether it be in season or out of season I have a huge issue w/ that. Now if a kid comes up to me like a mature young man and says it's just not for him after finishing the season? I have no issue w/ that. I can respect and accept that w/ no ill will.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 11:41:47 GMT -6
How often do kids actually man up and tell you they quit, though?
What happens with most of our quitters is that they either just stop showing up or they milk/fake some minor injury and stop bothering with practice because they're "injured."
We had one kid "break his shoulder" and wore a sling he would take off at school when he wanted to goof off, another faked a concussion in-game because he decided he didn't like starting on OL, another was diagnosed with a concussion in game 7 and we never even saw him again, etc.
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Post by coachphillip on Feb 8, 2014 11:43:40 GMT -6
You coach who shows up to the best of your ability. Football isn't for everybody. If they aren't on the team, there's probably a reason. For every salvation story, there's a dozen kids who didn't play and a coach plucked them from the halls only to have them return to the halls after the first day of full contact. Worrying about quitters never seemed productive to me. Program wide mass quitting, now that is something to worry about.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 8, 2014 13:05:55 GMT -6
sometimes I amazed by the sheer number of coaches who apparently never quit at anything in their lives. kids quit- talk to them, teach them, give them another shot. If they quit again, it wasn't for them and sadly you couldn't reach them, you cant be all things to all kids. Nobody can. sometimes kids "quit" and take a year off, grow up, mature and realize they missed the game and their teammates. they come back. This. I was a good wrestler when I was younger; the high school coaches expected me to go far. But, I quit; I was sick of the sport. It made me miserable so I washed my hands of it. One of the coaches on the staff berated me in the hall, in front of my peers as if that would get me to go back out. Why would I get upset at a kid that doesn't enjoy the sport and quits? Why would I want them out if they're not going to put their all into it? I had this talk with a few of our kids about track the other day. Two girls have been on the fence with the upcoming track season and I told them not to come out if their hearts weren't in it. They'd waste their time and waste mine.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Feb 9, 2014 17:06:41 GMT -6
We can't punish kids for anything they miss in the off season. And if they quit, they get to start a whole new slate come next season if they wish. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards We invite sophomores to come up at the end of their season if they wish. Had a sophomore commit, voluntarily, to come up. He went to a week's worth of practices and then just stopped coming. He started basketball and didn't say a word to anyone on our staff. I told him if coming up wasn't for him, he should have at least come and talked to me face to face. This past season (junior), I gave him the clean slate and let him come out. He did and quit. Would you give him a third chance in his senior year?
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Post by blb on Feb 9, 2014 17:10:04 GMT -6
We can't punish kids for anything they miss in the off season. And if they quit, they get to start a whole new slate come next season if they wish. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards We invite sophomores to come up at the end of their season if they wish. Had a sophomore commit, voluntarily, to come up. He went to a week's worth of practices and then just stopped coming. He started basketball and didn't say a word to anyone on our staff. I told him if coming up wasn't for him, he should have at least come and talked to me face to face. This past season (junior), I gave him the clean slate and let him come out. He did and quit. Would you give him a third chance in his senior year?
Yes.
But doubt you'll have to worry about it.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2014 17:14:16 GMT -6
We invite sophomores to come up at the end of their season if they wish. Had a sophomore commit, voluntarily, to come up. He went to a week's worth of practices and then just stopped coming. He started basketball and didn't say a word to anyone on our staff. I told him if coming up wasn't for him, he should have at least come and talked to me face to face. This past season (junior), I gave him the clean slate and let him come out. He did and quit. Would you give him a third chance in his senior year?
Yes.
But doubt you'll have to worry about it.
School policy says were have to let him come out, but doubt he'd come back anyway. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 17:18:55 GMT -6
Our program would be in the same boat as the last two posts. We might have a serious talking to with the kid to really evaluate his desire, but if he wanted to come out, he'd be there the first day of practice.
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Post by blb on Feb 9, 2014 17:29:05 GMT -6
We're talking about teenagers who do a lot of things impulsively, make decisions that they regret later.
Why would you cut off your nose to spite your face and tell a kid he can't play because he did something rash before?
He might turn out to be a good player for you.
Also, if you believe HS Football has educational value, then barring kids from playing is bad policy and tough to defend.
If it doesn't have educational value, why is it offered in Secondary schools?
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Post by s73 on Feb 10, 2014 9:54:59 GMT -6
My favorite is the guy who quits to concentrate on his grades. In 20+ years not once have a seen a kid's grades improve once he stops playing whatever sport he quit to concentrate on them. In fact, I actually give this exact speech at our parent meeting to kick off the season.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 10, 2014 10:33:57 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record.
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Post by blb on Feb 10, 2014 10:50:02 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record.
That's a pretty severe attitude for a HS coach. Very punitive.
Laying it off on "their buddies can't trust you anymore" is irresponsible. I'll bet in 98% of cases their peers would welcome them back on the team.
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Post by coachphillip on Feb 10, 2014 11:00:58 GMT -6
If given the choice, kids will ALWAYS let their former teammates back on the team. I don't see the harm in letting a quitter back out for the team. Just don't count on him for anything until he proves he's all in. When I played, a guy quit three times on us and came back three times. The third time, our coach asked us if we wanted him back and the team unanimously voted yes. He asked me why we let him back on the team in his office. "Coach, who cares if he's here or not? He doesn't hurt us or help us. If it makes him feel better and if he's trying not to be a quitter than we're not gonna get in the way of that." Kids write other kids off just as much as coaches. If they don't have a problem with it and it's THEIR team, then why should you?
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Post by fantom on Feb 10, 2014 11:07:37 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record. So if you have a kid who quit as a freshman then worked out faithfully during the offseason as a rising sophomore you'd wait until tryouts then tell him that he couldn't play? If I was a kid or a parent YOU'D be the one who I wouldn't feel that I could trust.
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Post by fantom on Feb 10, 2014 11:45:54 GMT -6
In fact, I actually give this exact speech at our parent meeting to kick off the season. A friend of mine who is a HC actually posts a list of former team members who stop playing. He lists their grades when they quit and updates it per 9 weeks with their current grades. He does it by GPA for the quarter not by class but I thought that was pretty interesting. and yes I'm aware of the privacy laws and all that...but it's a school where football is a major priority and...well...things are just different when that is the case. If you scramble the list so that it's nor alphabetical or chronological and take out the names I think that most of us could get away with it. You might not want to post it but you could keep a copy in your desk to take out when a kid or parent talks about quitting to pull up his grades.
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Post by s73 on Feb 10, 2014 12:53:36 GMT -6
A friend of mine who is a HC actually posts a list of former team members who stop playing. He lists their grades when they quit and updates it per 9 weeks with their current grades. He does it by GPA for the quarter not by class but I thought that was pretty interesting. and yes I'm aware of the privacy laws and all that...but it's a school where football is a major priority and...well...things are just different when that is the case. If you scramble the list so that it's nor alphabetical or chronological and take out the names I think that most of us could get away with it. You might not want to post it but you could keep a copy in your desk to take out when a kid or parent talks about quitting to pull up his grades. This post got me thinking, so I looked it up and their are all kinds of studies showing that grades are better as far as GPA averages go in athletes v. non athletes for all sorts of reasons. The biggest probably being fear of ineligibility as well as better attendance due to not wanting to miss practice. Never the less, athletes score higher in almost every major subject. I think I'm going to make a copy of several of these studies and distribute them to my parents next year when we kick off the season. At the very least, it takes away the whole "I'm taking my kid out to work on grades" BS we all hear every now and again.
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 10, 2014 14:08:36 GMT -6
I learned a long time ago to not put too much of your heart into a HS kid, they'll surely find a way to break it. Care, but always know even the best ones aren't as good as you want them to be. Ain't that the truth. We had a kid who was a great player for us, who just finished his high school career (4 year starter on both sides of the ball, and all-state). Our head coach (Who I have much respect for), throughout the first few years of the players career, constantly compared him to a kid who he had previously coached who played SEC ball and is now in the NFL. And every time this kid didn't live up to those expectations our header would get frustrated at him. Finally, mid way through his junior year I said, "Look coach, he's his own player. You can't expect him to be X, because he's not X. But he's giving everything he's got, and it's not fair to him to expect things he's just not capable of". It was like a light switch went off, and he handled that kid better from there on out. Sometimes we're all blind to the expectations we put on others, fair or not...
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Post by td4tc on Feb 10, 2014 14:33:09 GMT -6
My favorite is the guy who quits to concentrate on his grades. In 20+ years not once have a seen a kid's grades improve once he stops playing whatever sport he quit to concentrate on them. we actually have evidence that our players' grades are better in season than out of season. Part of the theory being that they are more time organized during the season. Also they know that if grades slip they may be accountable on the field
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 10, 2014 15:35:25 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record. So you make the kid think he can play then at the last minute, you tell them sorry you can't play? We would have a lawyer calling our superintendent. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 11, 2014 13:43:44 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record. So if you have a kid who quit as a freshman then worked out faithfully during the offseason as a rising sophomore you'd wait until tryouts then tell him that he couldn't play? If I was a kid or a parent YOU'D be the one who I wouldn't feel that I could trust. The weight room is open to all students, male or female, with a 2.0 or higher. We don't even discuss football besides current fundraisers- and the kids choose to participate in those.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 11, 2014 13:44:58 GMT -6
You quit here and you can't come back, period. I could give 2 poops how "good" you are as a player. Your buddies can't trust you anymore and I can't either. But I won't tell them this until "tryouts" comes along. So they can come in the weight room once a week and get worked like a dog. I opened the weight room to "anyone on campus" with a 2.0 and good discipline record.
That's a pretty severe attitude for a HS coach. Very punitive.
Laying it off on "their buddies can't trust you anymore" is irresponsible. I'll bet in 98% of cases their peers would welcome them back on the team.
Maybe we have a different culture- because they don't welcome them at all.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2014 13:52:01 GMT -6
So if you have a kid who quit as a freshman then worked out faithfully during the offseason as a rising sophomore you'd wait until tryouts then tell him that he couldn't play? If I was a kid or a parent YOU'D be the one who I wouldn't feel that I could trust. The weight room is open to all students, male or female, with a 2.0 or higher. We don't even discuss football besides current fundraisers- and the kids choose to participate in those. What if the kid who quit came up to you in the weight room or in the classroom and straight up asked you if he could play next season? I would hope you'd be honest with him. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2014 13:53:33 GMT -6
That's a pretty severe attitude for a HS coach. Very punitive.
Laying it off on "their buddies can't trust you anymore" is irresponsible. I'll bet in 98% of cases their peers would welcome them back on the team.
Maybe we have a different culture- because they don't welcome them at all. Unless the kid was a real jerk and not well liked already, teammates always welcome back their peers. Really has nothing to do with football and more about wanting their friend back on the team. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by fantom on Feb 11, 2014 13:55:56 GMT -6
So if you have a kid who quit as a freshman then worked out faithfully during the offseason as a rising sophomore you'd wait until tryouts then tell him that he couldn't play? If I was a kid or a parent YOU'D be the one who I wouldn't feel that I could trust. The weight room is open to all students, male or female, with a 2.0 or higher. We don't even discuss football besides current fundraisers- and the kids choose to participate in those. So, at no time between January through July is football mentioned in the weight room? Kids don't talk about and coaches don't talk about it? You don't have any team meetings or functions in the offseason? I find that hard to believe.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2014 14:28:24 GMT -6
The more I think about this the more it upsets me. No coach likes it when a player quits...well sometimes it's a god send, but I just don't see the logic in not allowing a teenager to come out for a sport. The whole "his teammates" can't trust him is BS and only applies to specific situations, like if a starter quits 2 years in a row for some lame reason. I've seen kids quit because of family reasons and tough home lives. How the heck can you deny a kid that has a tough home life that had to quit a chance to play the following season?
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lbjames
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Post by lbjames on Feb 11, 2014 15:45:10 GMT -6
We can't punish kids for anything they miss in the off season. And if they quit, they get to start a whole new slate come next season if they wish. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Nobody can force you to actually play a kid who doesn't show up can they? If you were truly committed to playing those who put in the work I think the kids would see that. I'm sure it would lead to some drama/politics, but can the adminstration force you to play kids who didn't show up?
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 11, 2014 15:50:58 GMT -6
No we don't have to play them. Once our season starts the best players play. Sometimes that means a kid who never went to off season workouts starts. Our evaluations for starters, back-ups...the depth chart, starts when our season officially starts which is mid-august.
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lbjames
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Post by lbjames on Feb 11, 2014 16:21:36 GMT -6
No we don't have to play them. Once our season starts the best players play. Sometimes that means a kid who never went to off season workouts starts. Our evaluations for starters, back-ups...the depth chart, starts when our season officially starts which is mid-august. Do you feel like there is accountability in your offseason program? You basically have no way to hold kids accountable. This doesn't hurt your program? I'm not saying anything you are saying or doing is wrong. Just interested in the approach and what your off seasons are like.
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