fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jan 24, 2014 11:27:57 GMT -6
I'm 3-1 in Championship games. I think that's pretty successful with the level of talent out there today. I'm sure there are guys with more, I'm saying that the only thing a big slow guy will help you win is a "Tug of War" and I don't coach "Tug of War" I coach football.
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2014 11:34:30 GMT -6
I'm 3-1 in Championship games. I think that's pretty successful with the level of talent out there today. I'm sure there are guys with more, I'm saying that the only thing a big slow guy will help you win is a "Tug of War" and I don't coach "Tug of War" I coach football.
I think your TEAM may be 3-1 in championship games, not just you. And yes that's very successful.
Are you saying David Shaw, Nick Saban, Mark Dantonio, for example don't coach football because they don't run a "Speed" Offense a la Oregon?
BTW Stanford's defense seems to run pretty well. Last two years they've held Ducks to 14 and 20 points.
It's a TEAM thing, not just Offense.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 24, 2014 11:41:40 GMT -6
I'm 3-1 in Championship games. I think that's pretty successful with the level of talent out there today. I'm sure there are guys with more, I'm saying that the only thing a big slow guy will help you win is a "Tug of War" and I don't coach "Tug of War" I coach football. relax, there are no ultimatums & absolutes in football. Also, speed is relative. You need some size & strength on the OL... AND those guys are much better if they can move. However, you're not going to be very successful if you take the 11 fastest players on your team and played them all at the same time. Somehow, 11 WR's vs a defense just doesn't seem like a great matchup for the offense. similarly, playing 11 DB's vs an offense doesn't seem like it would be very successful over the course of a game or season. so, it would appear that you're BOTH right. you need size & strengh. you need those guys to be able to move - the faster/quicker the better. however, simply stating that "the fast guy" always wins isn't very true - again, that's an absolute and we know that doesn't exist in this game.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jan 24, 2014 11:44:29 GMT -6
Never said ANYTHING about running a SPEED OFFENSE! We are a power I team just like Alabama and do run some of the same gun concepts as Stanford. What I said was that if I had to choose between a 250 pound LB that runs a 4.8 40 and a 225 puond LB that runs a 4.5 40, I would choose the 4.5 guy. Hense the phrase "Never sacrifice speed for size".
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 24, 2014 11:54:33 GMT -6
I'm 3-1 in Championship games. I think that's pretty successful with the level of talent out there today. I'm sure there are guys with more, I'm saying that the only thing a big slow guy will help you win is a "Tug of War" and I don't coach "Tug of War" I coach football. relax, there are no ultimatums & absolutes in football. Also, speed is relative. You need some size & strength on the OL... AND those guys are much better if they can move. However, you're not going to be very successful if you take the 11 fastest players on your team and played them all at the same time. Somehow, 11 WR's vs a defense just doesn't seem like a great matchup for the offense. similarly, playing 11 DB's vs an offense doesn't seem like it would be very successful over the course of a game or season. so, it would appear that you're BOTH right. you need size & strengh. you need those guys to be able to move - the faster/quicker the better. however, simply stating that "the fast guy" always wins isn't very true - again, that's an absolute and we know that doesn't exist in this game. Very true Huey. Also I think we are making some big reaches when trying to discuss the abilities of TOP 10 BCS teams and the average HS teams. At the HS level, it might actually BE an "either/or" type choice. The bigger guy who CAN'T do 1,2 OR 3, or the smalle/faster guy who can't do 4,5,6 That situation doesn't exist to the same degree when talking about most college players
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 24, 2014 11:57:54 GMT -6
Never said ANYTHING about running a SPEED OFFENSE! We are a power I team just like Alabama and do run some of the same gun concepts as Stanford. What I said was that if I had to choose between a 250 pound LB that runs a 4.8 40 and a 225 puond LB that runs a 4.5 40, I would choose the 4.5 guy. Hense the phrase "Never sacrifice speed for size". I think most coaches would say it would be fairly foolish to make ANY choice based on their height/weight
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2014 12:01:27 GMT -6
I think we can all agree that Big AND Fast is better.
But the Most Important Thing is still the ability to play the game.
And championships have been won by all kinds of different schemes.
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Post by fantom on Jan 24, 2014 12:02:00 GMT -6
Never said ANYTHING about running a SPEED OFFENSE! We are a power I team just like Alabama and do run some of the same gun concepts as Stanford. What I said was that if I had to choose between a 250 pound LB that runs a 4.8 40 and a 225 puond LB that runs a 4.5 40, I would choose the 4.5 guy. Hense the phrase "Never sacrifice speed for size". Holy crap. Would I love to have a 250 lb. guy who runs a 4.8 and a 225 who runs a 4.5.
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Post by davishfc on Jan 24, 2014 13:57:40 GMT -6
You are describing our offense this past year. Every week there was new install. I saw their playbook during camp and made the comment "I understand football and I couldn't play offense here." How do you decide what's too much? When they are screwing it up in practice. I saw this somewhere once and I believe it whole heartedly. There are only 3 reasons a person doesn't do something you want: 1. You didn't tell them 2. They can't 3. They won't So if you tell them...that means they can't or won't. If they can't, then that's your fault as a coach for asking a player to do something he is physically or mentally incapable of doing. If he won't...then he can't play. But you can bet on one thing - that kid...that young man in the helmet out there...he's not screwing it up on purpose, so if he is screwing it up, then either you didn't teach it well enough, rep it enough or you're asking him to do something that he cannot do. Personally I think you see that in action every saturday and sunday. Some CB will be expecting safety help over the top, doesn't get it and it's a long TD pass. After the play you see the CB and safety discussing or arguing...and those are college and NFL players. Yea...they have limits too. Outstanding!
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Post by coachklee on Jan 24, 2014 17:31:33 GMT -6
Never said ANYTHING about running a SPEED OFFENSE! We are a power I team just like Alabama and do run some of the same gun concepts as Stanford. What I said was that if I had to choose between a 250 pound LB that runs a 4.8 40 and a 225 puond LB that runs a 4.5 40, I would choose the 4.5 guy. Hense the phrase "Never sacrifice speed for size". Holy crap. Would I love to have a 250 lb. guy who runs a 4.8 and a 225 who runs a 4.5. Of course, I have the perspective of coaching at schools with about 300 to 400 kids, but both of those kids would be great to have! Heck, those might be my two DEs that keep my 5.0 40 205 lb. guy free to scrape and look like he is an all-state caliber kid with about 20 tackles per game! I know you were trying to make the point and using more numbers that are probably more often seen at the bigger high school and college levels, but it seems that both guys would fit into most defenses.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Jan 24, 2014 19:00:41 GMT -6
I think that the entire argument of speed/agility vs. size is concept-depedent. You get the guys that fit your system. If your system is running the other team over, you get size. If your system is getting to the edge and putting your guys in space, you get speed/agility.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 27, 2014 9:45:50 GMT -6
Welcome to the NBAization of the NFL.
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Post by joris85 on Jan 29, 2014 5:41:37 GMT -6
you can bet on one thing - that kid...that young man in the helmet out there...he's not screwing it up on purpose, so if he is screwing it up, then either you didn't teach it well enough, rep it enough or you're asking him to do something that he cannot do. ^^Well said! A while ago I saw a video of Alex Gibbs in a film room with some other coaches, discussing his own linemen. (Thanks Brophy!) Everytime he saw a mistake of one of his linemen, he said "that's bad coaching on my part". This got on me as IMO that's the attitude a coach should have. If players are not doing what they should, that's on you, simple as that! It's not what you know, it's what they know. I'm a Keep It Simple Stupid guy: Allows you to work more on fundamentals and allows them to play fast and good.
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Post by windigo on Jan 29, 2014 12:17:26 GMT -6
I think that is what we see with Chip Kelly's approach no single plays but concepts for each modular unit of the offense that are practiced over and over again.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Feb 3, 2014 11:01:31 GMT -6
you guys see that superbowl? that defense dominated with speed and toughness, not necessarily size.
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Post by windigo on Feb 4, 2014 10:26:24 GMT -6
you guys see that superbowl? that defense dominated with speed and toughness, not necessarily size. I'm pretty sure the Seattle secondary is one of the biggest if not the biggest in the NFL.
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Post by coachklee on Feb 4, 2014 20:23:27 GMT -6
you guys see that superbowl? that defense dominated with speed and toughness, not necessarily size. I'm pretty sure the Seattle secondary is one of the biggest if not the biggest in the NFL. Seattle's starting D-Line has an average weight of 303 pounds which was 11th out of 32 NFL teams and 4th out of teams that base out of a 4-3 seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2016849822_hawk25.htmlThis compares to Denver's starting O-Line weighing in at an average of about 310 pounds www.nfl.com/teams/depthchart?team=DENSeattle played with "speed" and "toughness" because their guys up front were "big" and able to dominate similarly sized guys, especially by NFL standards, repeatedly collapsing the pocket and making Manning uncomfortable.
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Post by coachklee on Feb 4, 2014 20:28:17 GMT -6
By the way, I'm in the "who is a better football player crowd" because all guys have roles assuming they have some athleticism. I am also not a Seattle fan, but as a native of Michigan, an unfortunate lifelong Detroit Lions fan
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 14:32:42 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure the Seattle secondary is one of the biggest if not the biggest in the NFL. Seattle's starting D-Line has an average weight of 303 pounds which was 11th out of 32 NFL teams and 4th out of teams that base out of a 4-3 seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2016849822_hawk25.htmlThis compares to Denver's starting O-Line weighing in at an average of about 310 pounds www.nfl.com/teams/depthchart?team=DENSeattle played with "speed" and "toughness" because their guys up front were "big" and able to dominate similarly sized guys, especially by NFL standards, repeatedly collapsing the pocket and making Manning uncomfortable. I've seen this sentiment on some "fan" boards, too. There's a perception about Seattle being smaller and faster that doesn't seem to be true. Heck, they're the "big and fast" that we've all agreed is the best-case scenario!
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Post by coachphillip on Feb 5, 2014 15:20:30 GMT -6
I'm a Niner fan. Trust me, I've seen the Seahawks play more than I would've liked to and they are definitely NOT small and fast. Cam Chancellor. Enough said.
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Post by soonerskins on Feb 11, 2014 16:02:52 GMT -6
I see it every day in the classroom. If a student does not do their homework, I have to ask myself, did they know how to do it? When I do a great job, they want to do more.
Same case with the ouside classroom. Keep every scheme simple and relevant. But, continue to push the envelope to see how much they can handle. Some years, can handle more than others. We had a coach that would rant and rave and say lets go, run the play! Well, we bit our tounges, and our kids ran, and ran through the drills to spite him. Well, in meetings, he would ask what was going on, and we would tell them about the error. He would get mad because we didn't fix it, but if you don't shut down the production line from time to time and make repairs, you will never have a worth while product.
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